LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

Liv’s success comes down to tv viewership in the long run. Golf has not grown in the traditional format for years. TV viewership int he sport has also not grown as well. Greg knows he will abandon the traditional fans to create a new league with new fans.  Greg is going after new fans and new viewers with a new format. The traditional fans and wrx’ers who say they won’t watch are not the target. They are never going to like it, but the existing fans aren’t growing the sport or the viewership with the traditional pga format. Same stagnant sport with same stagnant viewers.

... Back when I was a DJ on the radio in Chicago playing what is called Classic Rock today, we would often have better numbers for listeners than a station called WXRT that was a unique blend of mostly rock music. But our stations numbers took pretty big swings sometimes and XRT would be ahead one ratings period and behind the next. Our Sales Manager hated XRT because they had a very loyal audience and advertisers knew their target audience was always listening. He would be really pi$$ed when we had a great book (ratings) that was double the XRT numbers but still couldn't get the advertisers to use our station because XRT worked for them. 

... XRT = PGA. The advertisers don't care that there is no growth because their target audience is watching. Of course it is the same reason they pay players to wear a hat/bag/shirt with their logo on it. Since sponsors are dropping LIV players every day, I don't see them jumping to LIV to advertise. 

 

 

[theodoreb]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

If Cam wants to continue playing against the best, he should stay on the PGA TOUR. It is highly doubtful that the SGL will get many of the top 15 if one believes what they've said to date.

[Nixhex524]

33 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Total nonsense.......no one will stop watching the masters because Patrick Reed, Sergio Garcia and Charl Schwartzel won't be there....

 

What grounds do they have to "ban" past champions?  Because they don't play on the PGAT anymore?  I thought we established the Masters wasn't affiliated with the PGAT.... It would be a bad look for AGNC imo.... those jackets were rightfully earned, no matter who won them.

 

[oikos1]

13 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

Liv’s success comes down to tv viewership in the long run. Golf has not grown in the traditional format for years. Tv viewership has also not grown as well. Greg knows he will abandon the traditional fans to create a new league with new fans.  Greg is going after adding new fans and new viewers with a new format. The traditional fans and wrx’ers who say won’t watch are not the target. They are never going to like it, but the existing fans aren’t growing the sport or the viewership with the traditional pga format. Same stagnant sport with same stagnant viewers. Look at the sports they are emulating. You say that’s not golf, but viewership has doubled for soccer, cricket, F1, etc. golf not so much. Maybe it’s BS that they say they are growing the game, but the traditional pga tour way has not grown the game either. Actually makes perfect sense.

This is what the current PGA Tour "demographic" is having a hard time grasping.  There's a world market that consumes entertainment in completely different ways than even 5 years ago, and it's moving faster every day. 

 

Gambling is going to be the other X factor.  Degenerate gamblers love all kinds of action.  Check these odds out for players to go to the LIV: (yep, you can bet on it)

 

Cameron Smith 1/100
Adam Scott 1/33
Hideki Matsuyama 1/20
Xander Schauffele 2/1
Danny Willett 2/1 
Viktor Hovland 4/1
Justin Rose 5/1
Matt Fitzpatrick 7/1
Collin Morikawa 7/1
Scottie Scheffler 25/1
Jordan Spieth 33/1
Shane Lowry 33/1
Seamus Power 33/1
Zach Johnson 100/1
Tiger Woods 100/1
Rory McIlroy 100/1
Justin Thomas 100/1
Padraig Harrington 200/1

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/golf-betting-odds-players-join-liv-golf-2023

 

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/34167035/sportsbooks-states-taking-varying-approaches-betting-liv-tournaments

 

[lowheel]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Same thing Gretzky, Jagr, Ron Duguay and others did - spend it.

[bekgolf]

47 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

Clearly the existing fans aren't tuning in if you look at the weekly TV ratings. Pretty sad, but golf viewership continues to decline. 

I missed the point, sorry but I'm old and retired.  I also have a disposable income.

[Go Cougs]

1 hour ago, bekgolf said:

 

It's over in less than a year.  The Saudis will receive so much backlash from their own people there won't be a choice.

I don't think they actually care about the opinion of their own people, but the heat from the rest of the world might get to them.  That's who they're trying to impress.

[lowheel]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

You didn't hear the word "cheapened" from me ... the PGA Tour has been improving and evolving since its inception. The only complaints I'm hearing over and over here are the lack of guaranteed money for anyone playing in a Tour event and the TV coverage. Nothing about meritocracy, charities, event organizations, pension fund, player reps, etc. 

 

What's "cheapening" the game is the use of a sport by a country with a horrendous civil rights record to "cleanse" their reputation and invest billions to do so where the chosen players are just pawns in the grand scheme and there really is no intent to "grow the game". 

 

 

can you be more specific? there are many, that have tour stops no less...

[bekgolf]

3 minutes ago, Go Cougs said:

I don't think they actually care about the opinion of their own people, but the heat from the rest of the world might get to them.  That's who they're trying to impress.

True. 

 

However, at some point internal backlash hits those in power.  Citizens realizing that foreigners are being prioritized over them will bite those in power, even in a place like SA. 

 

Why is our government/kingdom giving large sums of money to Phil/Pat/Brooks/etc?  Why not help citizens?

[bighitlama]

3 hours ago, theodoreb said:

Except the majors in which he will be playing till 2027. Don’t be so sure they will take that away from champions. He will have plenty of time to win more majors.

No one knows how this will play out, but there's no question that the majors are weakened by not having so many players that would have otherwise qualified, if they are banned.   If Cam signs with LIV and wins 4 or 5 more majors in the next few years, there's gonna be a lot of pressure on the majors not to ban guys for this reason.   

[tw_focus]

Wow, Chuck is confirmed for the pro-am! You'd think he'll 100% play with Phil, right? I don't see how it could be any other way unless Phil has objections for whatever reason (not sure if the am round is required or optional / Wednesday round).

 

Phil + Chuck were amazing combo at The Match. Get those guys a mic and it will be golden.

[bighitlama]

1 hour ago, Go Cougs said:

I could see it self-extinguishing once the Saudis realize this has backfired, and only led to people bringing up their human rights record by orders of magnitude more than ever before. 

 

Maybe it goes 2 seasons and then 

What happened when they bought the Euro Soccer team or when they got into F1 or the Women's Euro golf tour?    Was there not outrage then?    How long before they gave up on those?

[theodoreb]

51 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

This is what the current PGA Tour "demographic" is having a hard time grasping.  There's a world market that consumes entertainment in completely different ways than even 5 years ago, and it's moving faster every day. 

 

Gambling is going to be the other X factor.  Degenerate gamblers love all kinds of action.  Check these odds out for players to go to the LIV: (yep, you can bet on it)

 

Cameron Smith 1/100
Adam Scott 1/33
Hideki Matsuyama 1/20
Xander Schauffele 2/1
Danny Willett 2/1 
Viktor Hovland 4/1
Justin Rose 5/1
Matt Fitzpatrick 7/1
Collin Morikawa 7/1
Scottie Scheffler 25/1
Jordan Spieth 33/1
Shane Lowry 33/1
Seamus Power 33/1
Zach Johnson 100/1
Tiger Woods 100/1
Rory McIlroy 100/1
Justin Thomas 100/1
Padraig Harrington 200/1

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/golf-betting-odds-players-join-liv-golf-2023

 

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/34167035/sportsbooks-states-taking-varying-approaches-betting-liv-tournaments

 

Exactly, I still feel the wrx community is just so pissed off and they think liv is ruining golf that they’re not even listening to why liv is playing around with different tournament formats, selling teams to sponsors, and building a different professional format that can be sold to a global audience. Just because non fans don’t understand golf and think the game is boring does not mean it has to stay that way. Hey if it doesn’t work, oh well, but at least someone is trying to improve something that is gone stagnant and is showing zero growth.

Edited July 23, 2022 by theodoreb

[bighitlama]

1 hour ago, theodoreb said:

And if the defending champion is not allowed to play? Of course it looses relevance. I have said many times, these tournaments have every interest to make sure the best golfers are playing and they are putting on the best tournament possible even if it upsets you to invite DJ, and Reed.  You think the best golfers don't want to competing against ALL the best golfers, and just some of them? Ask Rory, he will tell you the same thing. If Cam goes to LIV as rumored, he still will be playing all the majors net year, count on it.

If I were going to make a list of the things I think are important to those running the Masters, Tradition would be one and having the best tournament in the world would be two.   Banning players goes against everything they have done in the past.   If there is any debate which is the most important major, let the PGA and the Opens ban players and the Masters not... and it won't even be close!

[Creedo77]

Some news I heard over the last week

 

-Cantlay was offered 80 milllion, turned it down 

-Either his people or Cantlay said a deal could be agreed if Xander was in to join 

-Cam Smith and a few other Aussies will apparently be joining after the Presidents Cup. That’s when the 💩 will hit the fan. 

[BottleCap]

45 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

Exactly, I still feel the wrx community is just so pissed off and they think liv is ruining golf that they’re not even listening to why liv is playing around with different tournament formats, selling teams to sponsors, and building a different professional format that can be sold to a global audience. Just because non fans don’t understand golf and think the game is boring does not mean it has to stay that way. Hey if it doesn’t work, oh well, but at least someone is trying to improve something that is gone stagnant and is showing zero growth.

If they don’t like LIV they don’t have to watch it. I don’t like the NBA so I don’t watch, don’t like the NFL so i don’t watch.

 

Love the US Open, Formula 1, and Premier League, can’t get enough

[dalehead]

The problem with golf on TV, whether on traditional outlets or streaming, Is its boring 80% of the time. The exceptions are the majors and a handful of other tournaments with the top players playing and contending (e.g. Players, Genesis, Memorial, etc.).

 

The original idea of LIV was to bring together the top 48 players in the world 8 times a year to compete. That would be great for the game and fans.

 

But they are far from reaching the goal of commitments from those 48 players. Some of the LIV faithful believe it’s just a matter of time and money before that happens.

 

I think a more likely scenario is the top 48 players being split between PGAT and LIV. Two now weakened and mediocre tours. 
 

The problem that LIV has is their product is the same as the PGAT. Forget the 54 holes, the shotgun start, the teams, the hyperventilating announcers. Their product is still guys hitting golf shots. All the format tweaking in the world is not going to make that more exciting to an audience that wasn’t excited about it before.

 

 

[khalespace]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

This is what the current PGA Tour "demographic" is having a hard time grasping.  There's a world market that consumes entertainment in completely different ways than even 5 years ago, and it's moving faster every day. 

 

Gambling is going to be the other X factor.  Degenerate gamblers love all kinds of action.  Check these odds out for players to go to the LIV: (yep, you can bet on it)

 

Cameron Smith 1/100
Adam Scott 1/33
Hideki Matsuyama 1/20
Xander Schauffele 2/1
Danny Willett 2/1 
Viktor Hovland 4/1
Justin Rose 5/1
Matt Fitzpatrick 7/1
Collin Morikawa 7/1
Scottie Scheffler 25/1
Jordan Spieth 33/1
Shane Lowry 33/1
Seamus Power 33/1
Zach Johnson 100/1
Tiger Woods 100/1
Rory McIlroy 100/1
Justin Thomas 100/1
Padraig Harrington 200/1

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/golf-betting-odds-players-join-liv-golf-2023

 

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/34167035/sportsbooks-states-taking-varying-approaches-betting-liv-tournaments

 

For Cam Smith, it shouldn't be 100/1 based on his statements and behavior.  What website allows this bet. I  gladly put down $100. But Cam said he will play the FedEx cup. So it may happen next year. 

[golfer07840]

3 hours ago, theodoreb said:

Clearly the existing fans aren't tuning in if you look at the weekly TV ratings. Pretty sad, but golf viewership continues to decline. 

Other than the NFL, Everything on TV is declining. This isn't a golf problem. 

[Blue Surfer]

3 hours ago, Go Cougs said:

I don't think they actually care about the opinion of their own people, but the heat from the rest of the world might get to them.  That's who they're trying to impress.

 

If you are unfortunate enough to live and work in that country and are not a member of the Saud family, not only doesn't the family not care what you think, the Sauds will tell you what to think. And since when has the Saud family ever had to try to impress anyone? 'They move slow, and that's because they don't have to move for anybody.'

In case you're wondering, the Saud family as a whole is worth approximately $1.5 Trillion. That's Trillion, with a capital "Tr". 

More than likely a family member got tired of listening to a pal from a lesser family, probably one of the Al Maktoums, brag about hosting their fancy golf tournament and meeting Tiger and Rory. The Saud family member then hatched this plan, and thought to himself, 'wait 'til you get a load of us.'

They care absolutely zero about what anybody thinks of them. If you're a Saud, all others need to work to impress you. Not the other way around. 

[GrandStranded]

4 hours ago, khalespace said:

For Cam Smith, it shouldn't be 100/1 based on his statements and behavior.  What website allows this bet. I  gladly put down $100. But Cam said he will play the FedEx cup. So it may happen next year. 

😂

I don’t think you understood what the odds are.

He’s 1/100, not 100/1.  That means you’re betting 100 to win 10 if you think he’s leaving the PGAT.

[Ghost of Snead]

10 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

Some news I heard over the last week

 

-Cantlay was offered 80 milllion, turned it down 

-Either his people or Cantlay said a deal could be agreed if Xander was in to join 

-Cam Smith and a few other Aussies will apparently be joining after the Presidents Cup. That’s when the 💩 will hit the fan. 

 

If it's news, you must have a link for it. 

 

9 hours ago, dalehead said:

The problem with golf on TV, whether on traditional outlets or streaming, Is its boring 80% of the time. The exceptions are the majors and a handful of other tournaments with the top players playing and contending (e.g. Players, Genesis, Memorial, etc.).

 

The original idea of LIV was to bring together the top 48 players in the world 8 times a year to compete. That would be great for the game and fans.

 

But they are far from reaching the goal of commitments from those 48 players. Some of the LIV faithful believe it’s just a matter of time and money before that happens.

 

I think a more likely scenario is the top 48 players being split between PGAT and LIV. Two now weakened and mediocre tours. 
 

The problem that LIV has is their product is the same as the PGAT. Forget the 54 holes, the shotgun start, the teams, the hyperventilating announcers. Their product is still guys hitting golf shots. All the format tweaking in the world is not going to make that more exciting to an audience that wasn’t excited about it before.

 

 

 

The only way to rate the top 48 players is the OWGR. By the end of the year and certainly into next year, none of the defectors will be in the top 48.

[London424]

2 hours ago, john myrbch said:

😂

I don’t think you understood what the odds are.

He’s 1/100, not 100/1.  That means you’re betting 100 to win 10 if you think he’s leaving the PGAT.

Worse than that. You’re betting 100 to win 1. 

[Hizzoner]

Thoughts on Ernie Els’ comments on Liv? He may have had a point to find compromise and schedule  Liv events in the off season.

[fyrglfr]

Jaun Soto turned down 440 million from MLB, because he can get more and play for the team he wants to. 

[stinger_gc]

10 hours ago, tw_focus said:

Wow, Chuck is confirmed for the pro-am! You'd think he'll 100% play with Phil, right? I don't see how it could be any other way unless Phil has objections for whatever reason (not sure if the am round is required or optional / Wednesday round).

 

Phil + Chuck were amazing combo at The Match. Get those guys a mic and it will be golden.

Phil definitely recruited Chuck for LIV/will play w him in the Pro-Am.

 

 

 

 

[idrive]

Five days after raising the Claret Jug, Cameron Smith teamed up with Billy Horschel for Florida fishing tournament (msn.com)

 

You know Billy is anti liv.  Can't imagine that they didn't talk about it.

 

 Maybe Cam stays...

Edited July 23, 2022 by idrive

[ChipStrokes]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

If it's news, you must have a link for it. 

the amount of people not putting stock in what @Creedo77 says is astounding. 

 

the guy is a caddy on tour with first hand access to the players and their teams. 

 

if he’s saying it, it’s not speculation. it’s what he personally heard. 

[bscinstnct]

8 hours ago, Blue Surfer said:

 

If you are unfortunate enough to live and work in that country and are not a member of the Saud family, not only doesn't the family not care what you think, the Sauds will tell you what to think. And since when has the Saud family ever had to try to impress anyone? 'They move slow, and that's because they don't have to move for anybody.'

In case you're wondering, the Saud family as a whole is worth approximately $1.5 Trillion. That's Trillion, with a capital "Tr". 

More than likely a family member got tired of listening to a pal from a lesser family, probably one of the Al Maktoums, brag about hosting their fancy golf tournament and meeting Tiger and Rory. The Saud family member then hatched this plan, and thought to himself, 'wait 'til you get a load of us.'

They care absolutely zero about what anybody thinks of them. If you're a Saud, all others need to work to impress you. Not the other way around. 

 

That’s the opposite of the reality.

 

Without US protection, the Saudi Iran proxy wars become much hotter and may spill to direct conflict. The alternative “big brothers” would be Russia or China and both are aligned already with Iran. 
 

In tandem with necessary political alliance with the west, there’s only so much they can push an isolated cultural existence hence the sportswashing. 

 

The investments in Soccer F1 and golf are exactly because they “care” and need to “impress” the West. 
 

MBS, relatively speaking, is pushing reforms, unprecedented to the kingdom, toward more secular policy. 
 

So, it’s essential that the investments yield positive political/media returns. 
 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by bscinstnct

[leezer99]

Looks like LIV is having a hard time putting together the all star AUS team they want.  Current members of Punch (team AUS) aren't the stars you want out of the country down under.  If you think the players are going to end up being Smith, Scott, Day and Leish it might be coming down to who will be the captain that gets 25% ownership of the team.

 

Teams that I think don't have a captain that is set in stone are Punch, Cleeks and Torque.  Torque will likely end up with Hideki as the captain but that day may or may not come.  The Cleeks are having an identity crisis with a German captain, a couple of players from Africa and a US journeyman.

 

If I'm looking at the value of each team it's probably a toss up between Bryson's Crushers and DJ's 4Aces.  When the new Crushers team is announced with Bryson, Paul Casey and one or two new players I think their value goes up.