LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[mvhoffman]

Is it bad that when I open the scores section of the golf channel app I scroll down to the missed cut area to see the recurrent names to try to figure out who will be going to LIV Golf next…

Harry Higgs 

Jason Duffner

theres a few that are on there a lot.

 

On a side note, I would love to see Hunter Mahan come back as well as Fowler find his game

[mahonie]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Read the comment I responded to And you’ll  see the “so what” .  I am friends with low heel. He knows I’m not coming after him personally. I simply said , “ yes. This is mostly about Norman and his ego which has had an axe to grind with the pga tour for many years.  “. In short. He’s after revenge. And I don’t even know why.  
 

as far as this thread being gross ?  Please.  People have different opinions than yours.  And that’s ok.  Being tolerant is a two  way street. 
 

And wrong. There are people on this forum who have met Norman.  I’m not one of them. But I am around some others who you’d say “ nobody knows this guy personally “.  This is a big forum.  And the world is a tiny place now. Don’t be so quick to think than “ nobody knows this person “.   Greg himself probably has a screen name here.  

I'm not a great fan of Norman, great player but I was always rooting for Faldo, Seve, Lyle, Woosnam, etc.

 

In his autobiography, 'The Way of the Shark,' he describes the events surrounding the development of the World Golf Tour that he tried to set up in the 1990s and its subsequent quashing by the PGA Tour with, if they are to be believed, some really underhand tactics.

 

If what he describes is true, I am not surprised he has an axe to grind and I don't think he will let it rest until he sees it through.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Llortamaisey said:

This video is a few weeks old but it’s always interesting to hear how golf normies view big topics like this one from outside the ropes. 
 

 

Ah, another fine defender of the Saudi Golf League and It's Team54 Exhibition Golf Series.

Thankfully the PGATOR had an emergency fund, I shatter to think of the condition they'd be in if that wasn't the case.....The Tour is gonna need all those Congressmen and judges that's members of  ANGC.....IMO

[dciccoritti]

1 hour ago, Tbone107 said:

*In your opinion. 
 

I don’t see it that way. In my opinion, I think it will be more enjoyable/engaging compared to the 3M broadcast.

 

That’s the beauty of this, we get to choose what we all like and can voice our opinion by what we choose to tune in to. 

Not sure what you mean? You find beauty in having a say, in choice and the freedom to voice your opinion without any fear for your well being and the well being of your family?

 

[bladehunter]

21 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I'm not a great fan of Norman, great player but I was always rooting for Faldo, Seve, Lyle, Woosnam, etc.

 

In his autobiography, 'The Way of the Shark,' he describes the events surrounding the development of the World Golf Tour that he tried to set up in the 1990s and its subsequent quashing by the PGA Tour with, if they are to be believed, some really underhand tactics.

 

If what he describes is true, I am not surprised he has an axe to grind and I don't think he will let it rest until he sees it through.

And that maybe so.  I haven’t read that book or those remarks.  But. 
 

im pretty open to any and all tactics in business. To me it’s war of survival.  No friends there.   But that’s my personal opinion.  Doesn’t mean it’s correct.  And I haven’t seen the tactics you mention so I reserve the right to be wrong or change my opinion .  
 

For me greg just sets off the personal alarm bells.  Like shallow Hal the movie.  He’s a pretty grim character in my eyes.  And I thought this well before any Saudi talk.  His opinion on changes to the game now only backed that up for me. 

[bscinstnct]

This comment below is what I think too.

 

PGA tour needs to overhaul the schedule in collaboration with the top 10/20 so most of the events have nearly all the top 10/20. The ratings will be much higher, higher returns for sponsors, more money for the players. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/golf/lynch-liv-golf-has-gotten-one-thing-right-and-the-pga-tour-might-have-to-copy-it/ar-AAZVkO6?ocid=ob-tw-enau-613

 

“I asked one top player if he would give up his much-ballyhooed independent contractor status for a guaranteed contract. “Yes,” he replied quickly, saying that LIV is exploiting a weakness in the existing model.

Fans don’t know where PGA Tour stars are going to play week in and week out, sponsors don’t know what they are buying, and ditto for NBC/CBS. [Full disclosure: I am a contributor to Golf Channel, which is owned by NBC Sports.] If you can create 12-14 ‘big’ events where the stars have to sign up for a majority of them, say 10 of 12 or 12 of 14, plus majors and a couple more then that starts to look more attractive to sponsors, TV and fans. The era of maximum playing opportunities needs to go and the era of the best against the best more often needs to start.”

Edited July 24, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Ghost of Snead]

17 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

This comment below is what I think too.

 

PGA tour needs to overhaul the schedule in collaboration with the top 10/20 so most of the events have nearly all the top 10/20. The ratings will be much higher, higher returns for sponsors, more money for the players. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/golf/lynch-liv-golf-has-gotten-one-thing-right-and-the-pga-tour-might-have-to-copy-it/ar-AAZVkO6?ocid=ob-tw-enau-613

 

“I asked one top player if he would give up his much-ballyhooed independent contractor status for a guaranteed contract. “Yes,” he replied quickly, saying that LIV is exploiting a weakness in the existing model.

Fans don’t know where PGA Tour stars are going to play week in and week out, sponsors don’t know what they are buying, and ditto for NBC/CBS. [Full disclosure: I am a contributor to Golf Channel, which is owned by NBC Sports.] If you can create 12-14 ‘big’ events where the stars have to sign up for a majority of them, say 10 of 12 or 12 of 14, plus majors and a couple more then that starts to look more attractive to sponsors, TV and fans. The era of maximum playing opportunities needs to go and the era of the best against the best more often needs to start.”

 

Easy in theory but what happens to those not in the top 25 or so that need the extra playing opportunities to retain their cards, earn Fedex cup points, or just make a living ? And are the stars selected on meritocracy or guaranteed money so they get in even if they're not playing well ? 

[mahonie]

28 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

And that maybe so.  I haven’t read that book or those remarks.  But. 
 

im pretty open to any and all tactics in business. To me it’s war of survival.  No friends there.   But that’s my personal opinion.  Doesn’t mean it’s correct.  And I haven’t seen the tactics you mention so I reserve the right to be wrong or change my opinion .  
 

For me greg just sets off the personal alarm bells.  Like shallow Hal the movie.  He’s a pretty grim character in my eyes.  And I thought this well before any Saudi talk.  His opinion on changes to the game now only backed that up for me. 

I'm pretty sure Norman is not whiter than white in his business dealings either...and yes everything is always about Greg to the point where he comes across where he's the only thing that matters...I get that.

 

However, cynic that I am thinks that the PGA Tour has got the manufacturers, the players, the sponsors and by default, the golfing public, all in its pocket. Anything that changes that status quo is always going to get messy.

 

The European Tour was getting too big for comfort so an 'alliance' was formed...speculation on my part, but was the Euro Tour approached by LIV to trigger this move? 

 

I don't know what this disruption to the pro game will achieve...as long as we still have the Open to watch once a year and the Augusta Masters highlights I am not that concerned.

[NormanFan]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Easy in theory but what happens to those not in the top 25 or so that need the extra playing opportunities to retain their cards, earn Fedex cup points, or just make a living ? And are the stars selected on meritocracy or guaranteed money so they get in even if they're not playing well ? 

 

That's just it.  It's the players outside of the top 30 or whatever that are getting lost in this discussion.  And you need minor events so that players can get some experience and eventually get into that top 30.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, mvhoffman said:

Is it bad that when I open the scores section of the golf channel app I scroll down to the missed cut area to see the recurrent names to try to figure out who will be going to LIV Golf next…

Harry Higgs 

Jason Duffner

theres a few that are on there a lot.

 

On a side note, I would love to see Hunter Mahan come back as well as Fowler find his game

No, it's not bad......the purge is necessary to make room for younger new prospects.....their 15 min. of fame is over when they get drafted by Team54 Exhibition.

 

But they'll have $30M to comfort them......LOL!

Edited July 24, 2022 by Titleist99

[bscinstnct]

16 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Easy in theory but what happens to those not in the top 25 or so that need the extra playing opportunities to retain their cards, earn Fedex cup points, or just make a living ? And are the stars selected on meritocracy or guaranteed money so they get in even if they're not playing well ? 

 

Yes, I don’t know about your first question. 
 

But yes, I think the idea is to get a certain 10-12 events loaded with as many/all the top/50 guys. Then there’s still another 100 spots. But yes what about some of other events. They need them so guys can play/make money. But will event sponsors stick with events without top fields. 
 

I think it’s really do or die though. If they don’t get more money in the hands of the best players, they are more vulnerable to recruiting and then the whole ship goes down. 

[Gregakin]

GN doesn't know what the PGAT is doing behind the scene. They also have ties with SA PIF and deep relationships with oligarchs, which GN knows nothing about.  Hey GN, don't expect JM to show his cards 😑

[Titleist99]

29 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I'm pretty sure Norman is not whiter than white in his business dealings either...and yes everything is always about Greg to the point where he comes across where he's the only thing that matters...I get that.

 

However, cynic that I am thinks that the PGA Tour has got the manufacturers, the players, the sponsors and by default, the golfing public, all in its pocket. Anything that changes that status quo is always going to get messy.

 

The European Tour was getting too big for comfort so an 'alliance' was formed...speculation on my part, but was the Euro Tour approached by LIV to trigger this move? 

 

I don't know what this disruption to the pro game will achieve...as long as we still have the Open to watch once a year and the Augusta Masters highlights I am not that concerned.

LOL!......The European Tour was leaking oil until the Pgatour bailed them out.......

The new branding was necessary.

[lowheel]

10 hours ago, Short Pete said:

It is about Norman, plain and simple. If he had wanted a sustainable product that attracts the good players he could have easily bought the DP Tour, established 10 multimillion dollar events and pay appearance fees. With the remaining money he squandered on BDC, DJ and Philly Mick he could have strengthened the smaller events, thus creating a Tour that’s equivalent or better than the PGA. But he wants to disrupt. This LIV concept sucks in so many aspects, the only thing that works halfway is throwing absurd chunks of money around. There is not much new in this, and the new stuff sucks. If there was any proof needed that it’s about destroying the existing structure you got it when he bought Henrik Stenson. A part time retired one time major champion that happens to be RC captain. I guess he had asked Zach Johnson before, but he kicked him out the door, as did many other marquee names. If Bedminster isn’t a rousing success Norman could get into some trouble. Recruiting Paul Casey and Charles Howell is presumably not that exciting. But hey, there’s a new great team on the horizon: Howell, Perez, Kokrak and Bland: The Journeymen. 

Hilarious take, honestly Im impressed. Any competitor who joins an industry will disrupt things. You have strong opinions on what LIV does with their money but not the PGA tour. Whys that?

[jdl]

47 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I'm pretty sure Norman is not whiter than white in his business dealings either...and yes everything is always about Greg to the point where he comes across where he's the only thing that matters...I get that.

 

However, cynic that I am thinks that the PGA Tour has got the manufacturers, the players, the sponsors and by default, the golfing public, all in its pocket. Anything that changes that status quo is always going to get messy.

 

The European Tour was getting too big for comfort so an 'alliance' was formed...speculation on my part, but was the Euro Tour approached by LIV to trigger this move? 

 

I don't know what this disruption to the pro game will achieve...as long as we still have the Open to watch once a year and the Augusta Masters highlights I am not that concerned.

The European Tour was getting too big? You mean after it was devastated by covid?

[NormanFan]

58 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yes, I don’t know about your first question. 
 

But yes, I think the idea is to get a certain 10-12 events loaded with as many/all the top/50 guys. Then there’s still another 100 spots. But yes what about some of other events. They need them so guys can play/make money. But will event sponsors stick with events without top fields. 
 

I think it’s really do or die though. If they don’t get more money in the hands of the best players, they are more vulnerable to recruiting and then the whole ship goes down. 

 

Haven't we always had 10-12 events with loaded talent, though?  Think about it.  We have 4 majors, plus the PLAYERS, plus the 3-4 WGC events that exist/did exist, and then you have a few events like the Memorial that always draw a great crop of players.  And that's before you even add in the three FedEx Cup tournaments.

 

I just think the normal TOUR schedule always had this implicit divide between your top tier events and your midcard events.

 

If there's any possibility of cooperation with LIV, it would be for LIV's events to run opposite the minor TOUR events but I don't know if sponsors would really be fine with that.  And the TOUR would have to allow players to play fewer events to keep their cards, possibly going from 15 to 10 or something even less than that.  I suppose doing that would put the ball back in those players court in that if they only wanted to play 8-10 TOUR events and they didn't get enough FedEx points to keep their card, oh well!

Edited July 24, 2022 by NormanFan

[Ghost of Snead]

25 minutes ago, NormanFan said:

 

Haven't we always had 10-12 events with loaded talent, though?  Think about it.  We have 4 majors, plus the PLAYERS, plus the 3-4 WGC events that exist/did exist, and then you have a few events like the Memorial that always draw a great crop of players.  And that's before you even add in the three FedEx Cup tournaments.

 

I just think the normal TOUR schedule always had this implicit divide between your top tier events and your midcard events.

 

If there's any possibility of cooperation with LIV, it would be for LIV's events to run opposite the minor TOUR events but I don't know if sponsors would really be fine with that.  And the TOUR would have to allow players to play fewer events to keep their cards, possibly going from 15 to 10 or something even less than that.  I suppose doing that would put the ball back in those players court in that if they only wanted to play 8-10 TOUR events and they didn't get enough FedEx points to keep their card, oh well!

 

Probably not but I'm willing to give LIV the Friday after Thanksgiving so they can have a Turkey Trot, a Turkey Team event and an open bar featuring free shots of Wild Turkey. 

 

Just have to find somewhere to host the event ...

 

 

[oikos1]

One thing is obvious in all of the banter.  The LIV Tour is being more successful than most thought at this point.

 

And don't look now...

 

https://money.yahoo.com/greg-norman-sees-womens-liv-161848072.html

 

"The CEO of the Saudi-backed golf series is confident a women's LIV Golf league is in the future.

"One hundred percent. Drop the mic on that," Norman said when asked if he envisioned a women's LIV league."

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/super-golf-league-updates-2022

 

"LPGA commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan told The Times of London that she would “take the call” if LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman ever wanted to talk to her about the LPGA."

Edited July 24, 2022 by oikos1

[Ghost of Snead]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

No, it's not bad......the purge is necessary to make room for younger new prospects.....their 15 min. of fame is over when they get drafted by Team54 Exhibition.

 

But they'll have $30M to comfort them......LOL!

 

I think Dufner's ship has sailed...

[MUNIGRIT]

Finau i would bet goes. The Summerhays connection players and local Scottsdale guys will convince him. I'd imagine he could get some decent coin from them.

[Ghost of Snead]

Just amazing to me that some folks here and on social media would actually be ecstatic if the PGA Tour folded in favor of the SGL or if the talent was diluted to a point where neither league was competitive. Makes you wonder if they were somehow wronged by the PGA Tour or are actually getting paid by the SGL ... since we all know that social media bots are getting paid these days to disrupt, I'm going with the latter.

[RobS]

3 hours ago, NormanFan said:

 

Haven't we always had 10-12 events with loaded talent, though?  Think about it.  We have 4 majors, plus the PLAYERS, plus the 3-4 WGC events that exist/did exist, and then you have a few events like the Memorial that always draw a great crop of players.  And that's before you even add in the three FedEx Cup tournaments.

 

I just think the normal TOUR schedule always had this implicit divide between your top tier events and your midcard events.

 

If there's any possibility of cooperation with LIV, it would be for LIV's events to run opposite the minor TOUR events but I don't know if sponsors would really be fine with that.  And the TOUR would have to allow players to play fewer events to keep their cards, possibly going from 15 to 10 or something even less than that.  I suppose doing that would put the ball back in those players court in that if they only wanted to play 8-10 TOUR events and they didn't get enough FedEx points to keep their card, oh well!

Unfortunately for the pro golf world, I think everyone believing they deserve more money on any tour may eventually lead to everyone getting less down the road. I love golf as much as anyone but it has always been a niche sport and there are no signs of that changing.  Of the 50 most viewed sporting events this year in the US, the current largest golf market in the world, there was one golf event.  It was Sunday at the Masters, which is basically golfs equivalent of the Super Bowl, ranked 50.  For context, Purdue vs Saint Peters in the NCAA basketball tournament was #49.  The PGA is fortunate that the peak of their season is in the summer when the rest of the sports world is quiet.  It's easy to own Saturday and Sunday afternoons with no strong alternatives on TV.  They're also fortunate that their moderately sized viewing audience is the ideal demographic for high spending advertisers like luxury car manufacturers, financial services and pharma that produces e.d. meds. 

 

The money in golf is is already out of proportion with it's popularity.  Last year, on and off course, DJ made $40m+, Rory $33m, Spieth $30m, JT $20m, Rahm and Xander, $17m.  

 

The LIV money is irrational and sustained at the hands of one man's decisions at the moment, MBS.  If the Saudi's are willing to set the market for a while, it may damage the PGA because the conventional market outside of the PIF can't support it.  If the PGA becomes diminished, the Saudis can reset the market value of its players down the road as they see fit.  Spending above market on players is a start up strategy that will last only as long as needed.  This isn't a fan argument for or against LIV because I don't think golf fans care how much or how little payers are paid.  The players jumping to LIV now see it as a limited time offer for big upfront money and they are probably right.  Pro golf has the potential to turn into a product that was once sold at Saks that is now sold at a discount at TJ Maxx.

Edited July 25, 2022 by RobS

[jgonz69]

1 hour ago, oikos1 said:

One thing is obvious in all of the banter.  The LIV Tour is being more successful than most thought at this point.

 

And don't look now...

 

https://money.yahoo.com/greg-norman-sees-womens-liv-161848072.html

 

"The CEO of the Saudi-backed golf series is confident a women's LIV Golf league is in the future.

"One hundred percent. Drop the mic on that," Norman said when asked if he envisioned a women's LIV league."

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/super-golf-league-updates-2022

 

"LPGA commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan told The Times of London that she would “take the call” if LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman ever wanted to talk to her about the LPGA."

Lots of people answer the phone, except Fred Couples

[bscinstnct]

I saw this tweeter below and was like

 

$3?! Can that be right. So I did a quick search and it looks like the tickets for NJ can be had for $17 on this link.

 

 

https://seatgeek.com/liv-golf-invitational-new-jersey-saturday-tickets/golf/2022-07-30-8-am/5724099

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Long Liv the PGA

[tiderider]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Probably not but I'm willing to give LIV the Friday after Thanksgiving so they can have a Turkey Trot, a Turkey Team event and an open bar featuring free shots of Wild Turkey. 

 

Just have to find somewhere to host the event ...

 

 

NEGATIVE ... 

 

for your information, wild turkey is NOT cheap swill and would therefore be out of place on the liv plane and at a liv event ... wild turkey 101, wild turkey rarebreed, and the various iterations of the russel's brand (the same mash bill as the wild turkey labels) are all at least above average bourbons, with rarebreed and certain russel's offerings among the best values in the bourbon world ... wt101 has managed to gain some type of cheap notoriety as college swill, when very few actually drank it in college ... regardless of the attachment of the whiskey to the holiday, it would not serve its purpose as evidence of superficiality of the liv tour and its players and events ... regular jack daniels or jim beam would be more proper, and more than sufficient for the pat perez's of the world ... 

 

 

[mvhoffman]

3 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

No, it's not bad......the purge is necessary to make room for younger new prospects.....their 15 min. of fame is over when they get drafted by Team54 Exhibition.

 

But they'll have $30M to comfort them......LOL!

Your explaination was verified completely with the video of Pat Perez on the airplane wanting attention and nobody giving it to him. 
 

im very disappointed still on the DJ move because I really liked him and now gutted by the David Feherety move. 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

"One hundred percent. Drop the mic on that," Norman said when asked if he envisioned a women's LIV league."

That's not how you use "drop the mic" Greg, nor are you supposed to actual say it out loud unironically. That's about the level of pop culture literacy I would expect from a rich 67 y/o though. 😆

[Ezgolfer]

8 hours ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

LIV will have a highly experienced and well-respected team in the broadcast booth with Jerry Foltz, Arlo White and Dom Boulet and the addition of Gary McCord, with David Feherty's on-course commentary. Gary McCord and David Feherty are valued for their playing experience and tag-team humor while Charles Barkley can add a bit of humor and commentary from an amateur's perspective. Wonderful choices for an excellent team! 👍   

 

 

  

Hocus Pocus you are such a good golf teacher.. I enjoy reading your golf swing posts .

IMHO please stick to that…

[farmer]

If LIV hires both Feherty and McCord, that is going to be one bridge too far.  Listening to them trade stupid quips gave me a headache.  Feherty has become pretty good, but it took him a long time to get over McCord.