LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[GreatStrike]

Two-time Masters Campion Bubba Watson has now officially left the PGA and joined LIV. 💪 

[Potatohead]

13 hours ago, theodoreb said:

Oh so the rumors are invalid just because you don’t like them and they have mostly come true? 

 

 

Is that a joke? You guys are wrong, a lot. 

 

Reminds me of stock picking sites that just throw a hundred things at the wall, then one eventually sticks and they claim they're geniuses. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Potatohead

[PhilsFanDrew]

2 hours ago, mitchl said:

sure, but any reporter can likely afford the $3 ticket to just go and find out who’s playing if they want to do that.  

 

Many people that play in Pro Ams are not well known or widely recognized in person.  So sure reporters can get in but I doubt they know John CEO of Nameyourcompany just by looking at them. 

[PorkChopExpress]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Oh, Okay.....Ringling Brothers circus hit the big times, Got it!

 

Bro

You don't how big the Ringling Brothers would be if they came into town - hahahahaha

HUGE!!!!

[avrag]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

Let's say the best golfer in the world, through OWGR points or even just the eye test, is on LIV at some point and he is not in the field at the US Open or The Open due to being barred (even from qualifying methods/playing in), that sort of stifles their abilities to "test the best" or "identify the best" in the world, etc.

I believe Tennis had this situation in the 1960s for a while, largely because of Lamar Hunt's series of tournaments. It took 8 to 10 years for everybody to come together again, if I am not mistaken.
I hope it doesn't happen in golf in the same way.

[idrive]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

I understand that is his wish.  However, and I fully understand there are some big ifs in this statement, when there is clearly one or multiples of the top ten or twenty professional golfers in the world locked out of the majors it will illegitimize them.

 

Let's say the best golfer in the world, through OWGR points or even just the eye test, is on LIV at some point and he is not in the field at the US Open or The Open due to being barred (even from qualifying methods/playing in), that sort of stifles their abilities to "test the best" or "identify the best" in the world, etc.

 

On the other hand, if the majors are when and only when the very best golfers in the world form all major men's professional tours come together, that is a really, really big deal.

 

How many times does it need to be said that the PGAT does NOT run any of the four majors? It is NOT up to JM who gets in and who doesn't.

[bekgolf]

Geoffrey Zakarian.  The got an Iron Chef playing in the pro am. 

[Titleist99]

I gotta tell you,,,,,,this exchange here was worth logging on today:

 

  16 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

Television is so old school, LIV is innovative. Do you think the preteens watch TV? No, they watch youtube and tiktok and that is what LIV is going after, you have to think down the road big picture.

That's why they have innovative formats like Stroke play and the shotgun start, and they throw millions at the players that move the needle for young golf enthusiasts: Poulter, Westwood, Stenson, Perez, Mickelson, Bland, Casey, Howell III, and great youthful announcers like McCord and Feherty.

Edited 1 hour ago by Short Pete

 

This right here tells you everything you need to know.......classic

[smashdn]

@idrive

 

What part is confusing you?  I am happy to elaborate.

[lowheel]

18 hours ago, NormanFan said:

 

So with this info, HOW exactly are LIV and the PGA TOUR supposed to "cooperate" according to some people on this thread?

Easily. LIV also announced in their press release that none of their tournaments would conflict with marquee PGA tour events or majors. Sounds very reasonable to me and leaves the door open for adults to settle

[ronsc1985]

I find it hilarious watching the Golf Channel where their announcers continually b**** and moan about LIV while they are on the PGA/GC/major network  payrolls.

 

They complain about the LIV golfers taking the money but they spout the party line for the same reason. I find nothing wrong with that. What annoys me is the hypocrisy. I also find it amusing how some lap up their propaganda as gospel, a good example of which is this continuous calling the LIV events exhibitions. They are no more exhibitions then any PGA event.

 

The only meaningful  difference is the LIV events pay the last place player a small percentage of the winners payout as opposed to 0 in  PGA events. To get this the LIV players have to show up for the events. 

 

In the PGA no one has to show up with the result that anyone buying a ticket has no idea who they will see. In the last few PGA tour events no one except a tour junkie could recognize most everyone on the leader board and possibly no one who was as the bottom of the cut list.

 

They b**** about Saudi  money but are perfectly happy with shilling for China. The equipment manufacturers make most of their stuff in China or other far east contractors to China to say nothing about sanctioned events in the PRC. 

 

As to the Saudi's political system, the continual human rights policies of China make the Saudi's look pristine.

 

If you don't like LIV fine with me but at least have some coherent reason besides it's different and/or regurgitation of Monahan supplied talking points.

[lowheel]

4 hours ago, the bishop said:

I think at some point LIV is going to have to address the funding issue and the 9/11 angle of it in more depth beyond expressing sympathy to victims and their families.  The 9/11 survivors group(s) probably aren't going away anytime soon and with a limited schedule they'll have plenty of time to organize between events.  At least the ones held in the U.S.  So lot's of time to organize and co-opt any media outlets they can to report on this angle.

Its media created outrage... it will go away when the ambulance chasing media finds another story they can exploit. Where were these families when the LPGA, PGA tour and euro tour took money from these same entities literally buying events? do the families know there are 40000 americans working in saudi arabia right now for 6-7 figure salaries directly or indirectly employed by the kingdom there? Theres nothing to address

[lowheel]

Well there goes Bubba, another fake rumor that came true...

[woodriff]

11 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

LIV wants a TV deal. They have offered to pay Fox to broadcast events, but Fox hasn't said yes yet. 

I believe FOX and the Murdochs are waiting for some positive vibes on LIV. Not a whole lot of positive media floating around right. FOX is even beginning to create distance between them and the former pres. The FOX style has always been patriotism. Think NASCAR. 

[mahonie]

4 hours ago, avrag said:

No. Unfortunately we won't, if Monahan gets his way.

I read that Monahan was the second highest earner on the PGA Tour in 2019 just behind Koepka...he likes to get his way!

[lowheel]

5 hours ago, jimb said:

Charles Howell III is quoted as saying, for him, joining the LIV is not about money.  Really?!!!  Now, he tried to present a smoke screen of reasons why it isn't about money, but when you get to the bottom of it, Triple Sticks, it is about money.

Every player is, regardless of what they say unless you believe tiger really drinks monster energy...

[Ghost of Snead]

6 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

PGA Tour is going to be diluted.  (Same way the PGAT took the top players from the ET.)  Professional golf has just as many top level professional players as it ever has.  The top 100 players in the world are the top 100 regardless of where they play.  Same as in soccer/football.  The domestic leagues ebb and flow with which one is "best" or strongest.  Ultimately though there is a mechanism in place where the top teams/players play.  In soccer that is the World Cup and the continental cups as well as club cups.  In golf it is the majors.

 

IMO this should elevate the majors.  You will have four opportunities to see the best players from the three "leagues" going head to head.

 

Amazing that you and others don't seem to understand that the PGA Tour didn't "take" any players from the ET. The ET players played in PGA Tour events and earned enough $ to get a PGA Tour card. The Euro Tour players chose to play on the PGA Tour. Ask Poulter/Westwood/Garcia/Rose why they made that choice or you can just look in Poulter's garage. All of the above built their reputations on the PGA Tour.

    

Edited July 28, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[Ghost of Snead]

9 hours ago, kasting333 said:

Making a tour that’s more international is a good thing for golf imo. 
 

It does seem like LIV is silent partners with the Sunshine Tour and I hope that allows the Australian Open to become a great tournament again. 

 

Can you name all of the origin countries for the current PGA Tour card holders ? 

[dwboston]

2 hours ago, idrive said:

 

How many times does it need to be said that the PGAT does NOT run any of the four majors? It is NOT up to JM who gets in and who doesn't.

 

Sure, but when the PGA Tour colludes with the USGA, PGA of America, and the R&A to have eligibility criteria for the majors "re-examined", there might be some problems.

[Duct Tape]

6 hours ago, dwboston said:

 

Phil isn't listed as playing in the Pro-Am, but he's on the list for the tournament.  😕

Hmmmm, perhaps by amateur’s request?

 

🤓🏌🏼‍♀️

[jls667]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol, don’t despair. 
 

It’s becoming clear that liv is failing both as a sports product and sportswash. The NY/US media and social networks are ripping this and that won’t ever let up. Bad miscalculation. 
 

Most likely, it will get some traction in Australia and Japan if they sign CS and HM. 

 

But it’s going to continue to fail miserably in the US. 
 

For now, we see the same type of praise we might see a Kardashian get on social media….

 

They getting paid!

 

OMG, look at that jet! 
 

But, that type of hype dies out fast. What’s missing is any actual demand for the product.

 

$1 tickets. $3 for Sunday. 

 

I'm originally from New Jersey and my buddies from there were texting me today how the local radio, WFAN I believe, were ripping LIV today and how disgusted they were by it. If LIV wanted to enter that area unscathed and supported while being funded by SA, they should have waited to make sure they were established and taken seriously in the public eye. Jersey/NYC is a ruthless fanbase that was most directly impacted by 9/11 than anyone else in the country. Would have been wiser of LIV to avoid Bedminster for now.

 

That said I don't expect much in the way of on course disruption since golf fans, even NYC golf fans, do tend to lean on the polite side.

[jdl]

2 hours ago, lowheel said:

Well there goes Bubba, another fake rumor that came true...

Given that Bubba was shown in the initial LIV marketing materials, not sure anyone was doubting this "rumor". Probably would have happened sooner if he hadn't been rehabbing from surgery.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Amazing that you and others don't seem to understand that the PGA Tour didn't "take" any players from the ET. The ET players played in PGA Tour events and earned enough $ to get a PGA Tour card. The Euro Tour players chose to play on the PGA Tour. Ask Poulter/Westwood/Garcia/Rose why they made that choice or you can just look in Poulter's garage. All of the above built their reputations on the PGA Tour.

    

They understand. It's just a,LIV talking point and they think if they say it enough times people will start to believe the lie.....

Edited July 28, 2022 by Titleist99

[CasualLie]

2 hours ago, lowheel said:

Easily. LIV also announced in their press release that none of their tournaments would conflict with marquee PGA tour events or majors. Sounds very reasonable to me and leaves the door open for adults to settle

 

Easily?  Far from it.  It's easy for someone who has never even come close to building a multi-billion dollar enterprise to talk silliness about their perception of reasonable.  

 

There can only be one golf tour in the world recognized by all as the top level where all the best players play.  Why would anyone think the PGAT or Greg Norman is willing to cede that to the other?  What reasonable person is going to let the other tour rule over the marquee events with the highest purses and take a backseat?  Both sides are too heavily invested to make any meaningful sacrifice.

 

This will only settle in one of two ways; either both tours go on their current trajectories and co-exist and fans will be left to settle which brand of golf is better and which tour has the best players never to be truly settled, or, Saudis dump Greg Norman and negotiate a power position within the PGAT umbrella.  

 

I'm putting my money on the former.  People wanted to complain about rules of golf undergoing bifurcation??!!  That's nothing.  The sport at the pro level is already undergoing bifurcation and it's not going to come together anytime soon.  

 

Maybe, and this is edge of cliff speculation, maybe the Saudis want a ROI that is taking too long, so two years from now they dump Greg, and behind the scenes negotiate with PGAT that they will be second fiddle, but still want their "tour", want some seats at the table, and want Jay gone too.  

 

Who knows? But at the moment this does not unwind "easily" and there's a lot of ego in the room not going anywhere.

Edited July 28, 2022 by CasualLie

[Titleist99]

38 minutes ago, dwboston said:

 

Sure, but when the PGA Tour colludes with the USGA, PGA of America, and the R&A to have eligibility criteria for the majors "re-examined", there might be some problems.

Tell me that you have proof, and this is not just a gut feeling.......

[DrunkCaddy]

7 hours ago, jdl said:

 

I wonder if Norman waits until Luke Donald is officially named as the replacement and then comes in over the top with a $25M offer just to spite the PGA and the DP tour?

[DrunkCaddy]

51 minutes ago, Duct Tape said:

Hmmmm, perhaps by amateur’s request?

 

🤓🏌🏼‍♀️

Phil probably took the pro-am off because he wanted to count his money.  

 

"197 million, 198 million, 199 million ... wait did I miss one?  time for a recount ... one million, two million ... "

[avrag]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

The Euro Tour players chose to play on the PGA Tour. Ask Poulter/Westwood/Garcia/Rose why they made that choice or you can just look in Poulter's garage. All of the above built their reputations on the PGA Tour.

 

So, it is ok that they "defected" from the European Tour to the PGA Tour because of money, but it is not ok, that they now join the LIV Tour because of money? (I doubt that you mean that Ferraris are only available in The US of A. A little hint: they are produced in Europe and we can buy them here as well, if we can afford them. Yes, we have cars and we even have paved roads).
And this: "All of the above (= Poulter/Westwood/Garcia/Rose) built their reputations on the PGA Tour." can only be claimed by somebody who has no idea of the European Tour and never ever followed it 25 or 20 or 15 or 10 years ago. US centric view of the world once again.
I did follow the European Tour a lot as far back as 35 years ago, but did not watch much of the PGA Tour then. The players you mentioned, along with the likes of Clarke and McDowell and even Kaymer used to play full time on the European Tour, they were big stars here already, before they went to the US. Same as Stenson. Really, McIlroy was the first one I clearly remember to completely focus on the PGA Tour right from the start. But before they were lured to the PGA Tour by, wait a minute, MONEY, and before the European Tour made it easy for them by lowering the minimum event requirements and by also giving Ryder Cup points for events that were not on the European Tour, they all played a pretty big schedule in Europe.
So, from the point of view of a European golf fan of 30 years, it is simply the same thing happening all over again, with the exception that this time the depleted tour doesn't act as player friendly as the European Tour did then. 

[DrunkCaddy]

6 hours ago, khalespace said:

What would Saudi Arabia do to people like Caitlyn? And which tees will s/he play?

Maybe it shows that Saudi Arabia is trying to change.  I agree it wouldn't have been likely that SA would have invited a trans person to one of their events in the past.

[kmbean]

1 hour ago, lowheel said:

Every player is, regardless of what they say unless you believe tiger really drinks monster energy...

I’ve always been flabbergasted that Tiger wrecked that AMG Mercedes back in 2017.  I was told he was loyal to the Buick brand.

Edited July 28, 2022 by kmbean