Could Tiger be done?

[mosesgolf]

Tiger is done when Tiger SAYS he is done.  Until then I'm not counting him out.  

[WhostherealSlimShady]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

You better tell him

 

🤣

 

 

He will figure it out.  Age waits for no one. 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

Tiger is done when Tiger SAYS he is done.  Until then I'm not counting him out.  

 

Im thinkin he tee up Masters and Open and a coupl/few more times next year

 

PIP first place is prolly $20MM so he may as well play a few rounds and win that 🤣

[Cali_Stinger77]

If Tiger's career was 72 hole tournament at Augusta he's currently 6 back playing Amen Corner on Sunday. We want him to catch lightning in a bottle. but deep down we know it's unlikely. Making the cut at Augusta and Southern Hills was pure will-power.

I actually think the tougher a course the better chance he has at contending

[TwistedSister]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:10 PM, Stevens24 said:

Thinking the fact that he was on massive prescription drugs which cause him to black out contributed. He doesn’t deserve better as much of his issues were self inflicted. And I am a huge fan of the guy.

The police report refutes your statement!

[Stevens24]

1 hour ago, TwistedSister said:

The police report refutes your statement!

And police have never covered for a celebrity before. He has a history of prescription drug abuse. Considering the circumstances and his history it seems plausible. And I like the guy as a player.

per the Washington post

“But after the news conference, the sheriff’s department posted on its website, with Woods’s permission, its reports concerning the accident. In those 22 pages was a detail the sheriff’s department hadn’t mentioned: An empty, unlabeled pill bottle had been found in Woods’s backpack at the accident scene. The report also for the first time described Woods appearing disoriented and combative after the crash.”

 

let’s say it is highly probable

[TwistedSister]

9 hours ago, Stevens24 said:

And police have never covered for a celebrity before. He has a history of prescription drug abuse. Considering the circumstances and his history it seems plausible. And I like the guy as a player.

per the Washington post

“But after the news conference, the sheriff’s department posted on its website, with Woods’s permission, its reports concerning the accident. In those 22 pages was a detail the sheriff’s department hadn’t mentioned: An empty, unlabeled pill bottle had been found in Woods’s backpack at the accident scene. The report also for the first time described Woods appearing disoriented and combative after the crash.”

 

let’s say it is highly probable

Say what you want.  I was in a head on with a school bus going 25 MPH and afterwards I did not know where I was, and when asked my doctors name gave them the name of my sister's OB doctor. BTW I was not on any medication and have never drunk alcohol in my life.   I say his actions could have easily been from concussive trauma to the head from the crash. And it is not against the law to have an amber bottle in ones possession.

[Stevens24]

2 hours ago, TwistedSister said:

Say what you want.  I was in a head on with a school bus going 25 MPH and afterwards I did not know where I was, and when asked my doctors name gave them the name of my sister's OB doctor. BTW I was not on any medication and have never drunk alcohol in my life.   I say his actions could have easily been from concussive trauma to the head from the crash. And it is not against the law to have an amber bottle in ones possession.

Glad you were ok, guessing you haven’t had the number of surgical procedures and a history of abusing prescription meds either. And the LA Sheriff/Police covers for all of the celebrity types out there. Lived there 37 years saw it all of the time 

[farmer]

Not being a close friend of Tiger's, my guess is that he wants to be that dominating player he was for so many years.  If he cannot return to some semblance of that form, he will build a design business, become a very high level dad golfer and let tour golf fade away.  By my standards, he is still a young man, but his body is not the body of a young man.

[TwistedSister]

8 hours ago, Stevens24 said:

Glad you were ok, guessing you haven’t had the number of surgical procedures and a history of abusing prescription meds either. And the LA Sheriff/Police covers for all of the celebrity types out there. Lived there 37 years saw it all of the time 

Am aware of what you speak. But for someone that has NO firsthand knowledge of what happened to state what you did as if it was fact is quite dubious to say the least. 

[StevenH]

Woods is done primarily because of the era he ushered into golf.  Before he brought athleticism, power, and discipline into the game, players were pulling all nighters during tournaments, smoking cigarettes during their rounds, and rarely if ever training to improve strength and conditioning.

 

Many of today's players are as disciplined if not more so than Woods.  IMO, if he were to start his career anew today he'd win less than half the number of majors he has.  He raised the bar.

[ALIF]

17 minutes ago, StevenH said:

Woods is done primarily because of the era he ushered into golf.  Before he brought athleticism, power, and discipline into the game, players were pulling all nighters during tournaments, smoking cigarettes during their rounds, and rarely if ever training to improve strength and conditioning.

 

Many of today's players are as disciplined if not more so than Woods.  IMO, if he were to start his career anew today he'd win less than half the number of majors he has.  He raised the bar.

This^^^^^^^^^^

[bscinstnct]

47 minutes ago, StevenH said:

Woods is done primarily because of the era he ushered into golf.  Before he brought athleticism, power, and discipline into the game, players were pulling all nighters during tournaments, smoking cigarettes during their rounds, and rarely if ever training to improve strength and conditioning.

 

Many of today's players are as disciplined if not more so than Woods.  IMO, if he were to start his career anew today he'd win less than half the number of majors he has.  He raised the bar.

 

Tiger?

 

He say to these chumps now like

 

 

 

 

You ever see TW 1.0 play golf?

 

 

 

 

[Dutch1008]

1 hour ago, StevenH said:

Woods is done primarily because of the era he ushered into golf.  Before he brought athleticism, power, and discipline into the game, players were pulling all nighters during tournaments, smoking cigarettes during their rounds, and rarely if ever training to improve strength and conditioning.

 

Many of today's players are as disciplined if not more so than Woods.  IMO, if he were to start his career anew today he'd win less than half the number of majors he has.  He raised the bar.

It's an interesting hypothetical. If prime Tiger was respawned today, he wouldn't have the same length advantage he had in 2000 but he'd still have the most complete game in the world. Prime Tiger was effectively Rory's power, Morikawa's iron play, and Cam Smith's short game wrapped into one player. He may not dominate to the same extent, but he'd still be the best player in the world by a pretty wide margin. Not to mention, Tiger had a ruthless will to win only matched by Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. 

 

As a point of reference, go listen to the Rick Shiels podcast with Adam Scott. Scott is one of the few "on the ground" observers that was there both then and now. Scott said something along the lines of, "younger players frequently tell me that they would have liked to face prime Tiger, I always tell them they're crazy and really want no part of that. He was on a completely different level." Scott is an uber-talent in his own right so I think that opinion has some serious merit.    

[Cali_Stinger77]

2 hours ago, StevenH said:

Woods is done primarily because of the era he ushered into golf.  Before he brought athleticism, power, and discipline into the game, players were pulling all nighters during tournaments, smoking cigarettes during their rounds, and rarely if ever training to improve strength and conditioning.

 

Many of today's players are as disciplined if not more so than Woods.  IMO, if he were to start his career anew today he'd win less than half the number of majors he has.  He raised the bar.

Disagree with this statement. Tiger in his prime had wonderful discipline and could adapt to any type of conditions without complaining.  Sure he had a huge distance advantage over everyone, but every facet of his game was the best on tour. 

 

2000 Tiger basically had video game like stats

2nd in driving distance

1st in gir

1st in eagles (averaging one eagle a tournament is insane)

1st in birdie avg

3rd scrambling

2nd in putting avg

 

2 of my favorite Tiger wins are the 2002 Masters/US Open. Nobody really talks about those 2 wins because they weren't super flashy. But he absolutely dominated both events. Won each by 3 and was never challenged on Sunday. He got a big lead and just played smart coming in

[rukahs]

9 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You ever see TW 1.0 play golf?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly what I was going to say. It doesn't matter what era Tiger would have started in, put 2000 Tiger against prime Cam Smith, DJ, Rory, Sheffler, etc etc and he's still whooping their asses by a margin, not just a shot or 2. No player in the history of the game has played to the level that Tiger did and I think as time passes some people forget just how good he was - especially the young fans who weren't even born in 2000. Now just because almost every player goes to the gym they're meant to be able to hold it against prime Tiger? NOPE.

[Naptime]

He has beaten them a few times in the last 4 years as a worn out old guy.  In his prime he would have beaten them like drums.

[pingbling23]

7 hours ago, M4TT said:

 

 

Exactly what I was going to say. It doesn't matter what era Tiger would have started in, put 2000 Tiger against prime Cam Smith, DJ, Rory, Sheffler, etc etc and he's still whooping their asses by a margin, not just a shot or 2. No player in the history of the game has played to the level that Tiger did and I think as time passes some people forget just how good he was - especially the young fans who weren't even born in 2000. Now just because almost every player goes to the gym they're meant to be able to hold it against prime Tiger? NOPE.

Fans of the goat, jack, I’m sure feel the same way about tiger fans.

[pktaske]

What's not making sense in these arguments is saying Tiger would dominate todays players in their prime form the same way he dominated the exponentially less athletic/'dedicated to their craft' (if that's what was meant?) golfers of 20 plus years ago. That is simply not a defendable position IMHO. In reality, he could have still been very dominant but there would have been a few wins shaved off here and there for sure.

 

I am interested in hearing an opposing view to the above argument.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by pktaske

[bscinstnct]

19 minutes ago, pktaske said:

What's not making sense in these arguments is saying Tiger would dominate todays players in their prime form the same way he dominated the exponentially less athletic/'dedicated to their craft' (if that's what was meant?) golfers of 20 plus years ago. That is simply not a defendable position IMHO. In reality, he could have still been very dominant but there would have been a few wins shaved off here and there for sure.

 

I am interested in hearing an opposing view to the above argument.

 

 

He just beat them all at the Masters in 2019

 

An old broken down shadow of his TW 1.0 days. Maybe 65% of his former ability. 
 

After spinal fusion and like 2 year layoff from golf where he couldn’t even walk at times

 

And he on drugs fall asleep in the middle of the highway

 

And his knees shot

 

🤣

 

And you wonder if he could beat the crap out of these chumps in his prime?

 

You ever see TW 1.0 play?

 

; )

Edited September 21, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Dr. Block]

1 hour ago, pktaske said:

What's not making sense in these arguments is saying Tiger would dominate todays players in their prime form the same way he dominated the exponentially less athletic/'dedicated to their craft' (if that's what was meant?) golfers of 20 plus years ago. That is simply not a defendable position IMHO. In reality, he could have still been very dominant but there would have been a few wins shaved off here and there for sure.

 

I am interested in hearing an opposing view to the above argument.

 

In my opinion, I'm not sure today's players are actually more talented or better golfers. Rather they are better more disciplined athletes that have enjoyed a game with much of the nuance removed by the way the equipment plays. In my opinion, for those reasons (athleticism and equipment) there are more of them that can win at any moment, but by and large, I don't think they are more talented. Tiger showed in 2019 what his talent level with maybe half his faculties and body still in order can do on a golf course. That's the difference. That's why he would dominate. You can give him this stupid easy equipment, and he's still going to dissect a golf course like he's playing with a wound ball, butter knives, and whatever that steel-shafted driver from Cobra was he could hit 3 bills through the air with the wound ball.  

 

Again, all my opinion, and I'm probably going out on a limb here, but since you asked for an opposing view, there it is.  I think talent/golfing ability and the science of sport are not mutually exclusive. I should also mention advancement in the understanding of the golf swing and how it can be simplified to work in conjunction with the easier to use modern equipment. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Dr. Block

[BlackDiamondPar5]

56 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

He just beat them all at the Masters in 2019

 

An old broken down shadow of his TW 1.0 days. Maybe 65% of his former ability. 
 

After spinal fusion and like 2 year layoff from golf where he couldn’t even walk at times

 

And he on drugs fall asleep in the middle of the highway

 

And his knees shot

 

🤣

 

And you wonder if he could beat the crap out of these chumps in his prime?

 

You ever see TW 1.0 play?

 

; )

Tiger in the gym at 70 talking to some kid 🤣

 

[rd1959]

On 9/15/2022 at 10:55 AM, mosesgolf said:

Tiger is done when Tiger SAYS he is done.  Until then I'm not counting him out.  

Well, from now on he'll be hearing Father Time whispering in his ear. 

[aenemated]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

He just beat them all at the Masters in 2019

 

Hell, he beat a good handful of them THIS YEAR with one completely mangled leg, the other with a bum knee, an even more wrecked back and having spent most of the previous year in bed or on crutches. 

[Dutch1008]

4 hours ago, pktaske said:

What's not making sense in these arguments is saying Tiger would dominate todays players in their prime form the same way he dominated the exponentially less athletic/'dedicated to their craft' (if that's what was meant?) golfers of 20 plus years ago. That is simply not a defendable position IMHO. In reality, he could have still been very dominant but there would have been a few wins shaved off here and there for sure.

 

I am interested in hearing an opposing view to the above argument.

 

The opposing view is that there have always been strong, athletic, and talented golfers. Tiger upped the ante but it's not as though every guy  he played against couldn't compete today. Pretty sure Phil, Ernie, and Vijay would still be successful players on todays tour. 

 

That said, I think your right in that we could probably shave a few wins here or there. I think the game is deeper than it's ever been. But Tiger was such a complete player that I think your original assertion that he would win less than half his majors is a enormous overreach. None of the top guys today have Tiger's total game. Rory's approach shots and putting come and go,  Rahm's short game gets wonky, Cam Smith / Morikawa / Cantlay lack power, JT lacks consistency, Xander lacks a weakness but isn't elite through the bag like Tiger was. Prime Tiger would still be the best player in the world by a comfortable margin. 

 

Here's an additional hypothetical, if Tiger had access to today's elite level personal trainers would he have stayed healthier and been even more dominant? Training today is far more advanced in terms of mobility, functional strength training, load management, and recovery. For example, Michael Jordan took his training very seriously and was one of the 1st guys that had a personal trainer flying around with him. However, his protocol was basically high school level when compared with the PhD level training someone like Lebron James is doing now. Michael was washed by the time he was with the Wizards, LeBron is still a top 5 player despite having way more miles on the odometer than MJ.        

[3whacker]

4 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

The opposing view is that there have always been strong, athletic, and talented golfers. Tiger upped the ante but it's not as though every guy  he played against couldn't compete today. Pretty sure Phil, Ernie, and Vijay would still be successful players on todays tour. 

 

That said, I think your right in that we could probably shave a few wins here or there. I think the game is deeper than it's ever been. But Tiger was such a complete player that I think your original assertion that he would win less than half his majors is a enormous overreach. None of the top guys today have Tiger's total game. Rory's approach shots and putting come and go,  Rahm's short game gets wonky, Cam Smith / Morikawa / Cantlay lack power, JT lacks consistency, Xander lacks a weakness but isn't elite through the bag like Tiger was. Prime Tiger would still be the best player in the world by a comfortable margin. 

 

Here's an additional hypothetical, if Tiger had access to today's elite level personal trainers would he have stayed healthier and been even more dominant? Training today is far more advanced in terms of mobility, functional strength training, load management, and recovery. For example, Michael Jordan took his training very seriously and was one of the 1st guys that had a personal trainer flying around with him. However, his protocol was basically high school level when compared with the PhD level training someone like Lebron James is doing now. Michael was washed by the time he was with the Wizards, LeBron is still a top 5 player despite having way more miles on the odometer than MJ.        

Tiger is responsible for bringing fitness and athleticism to the game, How could he have been MORE dominant, until the accident he was a threat to win every time he teed it up. Golfers started hitting the gym because TW hit the gym and bulked up and hit it by everyone...Only TW could overcome as many back procedures as he had...the accident brought his career to a halt and darn near killed him. We will never know what a healthy TW would have been in his late 40's

[Dutch1008]

42 minutes ago, 3whacker said:

Tiger is responsible for bringing fitness and athleticism to the game, How could he have been MORE dominant, until the accident he was a threat to win every time he teed it up. Golfers started hitting the gym because TW hit the gym and bulked up and hit it by everyone...Only TW could overcome as many back procedures as he had...the accident brought his career to a halt and darn near killed him. We will never know what a healthy TW would have been in his late 40's

I explained how. The training protocols deployed by Jordan or Tiger or anybody in the 90’s or early 00’s were not as refined and well rounded as those used by athletes today. Rory’s & LeBron’s program are just better and smarter than what Tiger was doing 20 years ago. Tiger would have been more dominant because he likely would have had better health. Not to mention surgical procedures and rehab protocols have improved. An ACL tear used to be a 12-18 month recovery 20 years ago. Now dudes are back on an NFL field in 6 months. 

[bscinstnct]

11 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

I explained how. The training protocols deployed by Jordan or Tiger or anybody in the 90’s or early 00’s were not as refined and well rounded as those used by athletes today. Rory’s & LeBron’s program are just better and smarter than what Tiger was doing 20 years ago. Tiger would have been more dominant because he likely would have had better health. Not to mention surgical procedures and rehab protocols have improved. An ACL tear used to be a 12-18 month recovery 20 years ago. Now dudes are back on an NFL field in 6 months. 

 

Training protocols?

 

TW training protocol was to play half a year with no ACL and Swiss cheese meniscus, ends of his femur and tibia grinding together like a steel wheel with no tire on pavement. 
 

Bite the bullet for months putting off surgery, go win 4 times including a US Open. 
 

That’s Tiger for ya ; )

 

And Rory was best when he fat!

 

 

 

 

[gvogel]

13 hours ago, 3whacker said:

Tiger is responsible for bringing fitness and athleticism to the game, How could he have been MORE dominant, until the accident he was a threat to win every time he teed it up. Golfers started hitting the gym because TW hit the gym and bulked up and hit it by everyone...Only TW could overcome as many back procedures as he had...the accident brought his career to a halt and darn near killed him. We will never know what a healthy TW would have been in his late 40's

Funny, I thought that Sam Snead brought fitness and athleticism to the game.  After that, there was a guy named Gary Player.

Some guy named Jack Nicklaus played tennis to stay in shape, after he lost a bunch of weight by running between shots one winter at LaGorce.

[Dutch1008]

38 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Training protocols?

 

TW training protocol was to play half a year with no ACL and Swiss cheese meniscus, ends of his femur and tibia grinding together like a steel wheel with no tire on pavement. 
 

Bite the bullet for months putting off surgery, go win 4 times including a US Open. 
 

That’s Tiger for ya ; )

 

And Rory was best when he fat!

Yes, training protocols. Look at Tiger's legs. He was never meant to be a 200lb athlete. His knees and back are proof that his frame couldn't handle the weight. A good personal trainer would have stopped the bulking at 185/190 and replaced the endless running with biking/elliptical/swimming. Tiger is still the GOAT, I'm just of the opinion that he'd have 20 majors and 100 wins had he been smarter about his training. You're free to disagree. 

 

Also, Rory's best came when he won The Open, WGC Bridgestone, and PGA back to back to back in 2014. He already lost the baby fat by that point.