LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[johnseg]

13 hours ago, Babydaddy said:

I would humbly submit regarding the Ryder Cup- The Ryder cup as we know it, really started after 1979- and while it may not be openly discussed, it got compelling because it became the Euro tour vs the PGA tour. The emergence of players like Seve, Langer, Woosnam, Faldo, Montgomerie, etc.. spurred that fire. The chip on the Euro's shoulder was more about "hey, we can play golf over here too" and with the tendency toward a more collectivist mindset in European countries "we travel, room and eat together and are a real team because of our tour". This as opposed to the Americans which were seen as individuals that reluctantly got grouped as a "team" for no pay in an "exhibition". The European tour was really the opposing side in the Ryder cup- I don't sense that it was about "country" as much for those that played in Europe. Sure, you had the Spanish Armada etc.., but it really seemed to me that it always wrapped in giving the business to the cocky Americans and their "country club" tour. 

I believe that things started to change when guys like Westwood and Poulter came to the States to play full time. It seemed like that started the every man for himself thing and a focus more on money (PGA Tour). Which, they were popular players that had some American sponsors. You can't blame them for wanting to maximize their earning potential.

It appears to me that this LIV thing is a different animal for those on the DP/European tour than it is for the PGA and it is possibly because of this backstory of being united on the Euro tour. The I can see how Euro players see the move to LIV as a direct betrayal of the thing that made the Ryder Cup so compelling in the first place. I think this is what has made that tour so hardline about keeping LIV players out of the proceedings. 

I think the discussion about what the Ryder Cup actually is has changed because of that, but with Stenson relinquishing his captaincy for money, that seems like it was a real line in the sand. We have the Olympics, the Dunhill cup to play "for country". The tragedy of all of this (I can imagine) in the minds of the Euro tour players is the death of that spirit that made their tour and the Ryder cup so compelling. 

In the end, the debate is rooted in the question "what is the Ryder Cup now in the face of all this?" 

Absolutely. The reason for the change from Great Britain and Ireland to Europe was because it wasn't working. From 1947-1977 Great Britain/Ireland had one win and one tie so something had to be done. So it isn't as if the cup hasn't had to be modified over the years.

 

Right now, I think LIV hurts the US more than Europe. Who from LIV would be a slam dunk pick for the European team if you just don't assume they would take the legacy players. From the 2021 team you have Garcia (43), Westwood (50), Casey (46), Poulter (47), and Weisberger (37). While there is a lot of name recognition there is not a lot of game. Other LIV guys would be Richard Bland, Laurie Canter, Sam Horsfield, Martin Kaymer, Graeme McDowell, Thomas Pieters, David Puig, and Stenson. I'm not really excited about any of those names.

 

So if they choose to let LIV in it will only widen the US gap.

[jdl]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:17 PM, billyspan said:

Golfweek/Sagarin Ranking DO include LIV events:  https://rankings.golfweek.com/rankings/default.asp?T=worldt

Thanks, guess they need to update their page. 

[golfheaven69]

The LIV guys especially Mickelson are chirping because they continue to become more and more irrelevant. Brooks keeps their head above water for awhile. Best thing is for PGA players and media to not respond to the chatter as they continue to fade away. 
 

Jack said it all. 

[Dutch1008]

7 hours ago, idrive said:

IF there are some PGA guys wanting to join liv they're most likely the guys GN isn't interested in.

 

He doesn't want the average PGA player. He wants the top 50.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of the bottom feeders that would join liv for no other reason than they will never be relevant on the PGAT. The others that GN would take aren't interested. Obviously, or they would be gone already.

They might not have the funds for any new signings. Obviously the PIF has the money, but perhaps they no longer want to throw good money after bad. Its been widely reported that spending has already been cut back. I doubt they are interested in another $10M signing bonus to a Charles Howell or Cameron Tringale type. I think they have enough evidence that those types of players just don't move the needle. 

 

I'm sure they could "find" the cash for a Rahm / Rory / Scheffler, but would a Cantlay or even Xander be worth the asking price? Great players, in their prime, but would either attract any new eyes to the product? I think the McKinsey analysis had it right. For this to work, they needed to lock up the top 10 blitzkrieg style. A single initial blow that left the PGAT mortally wounded. Failing that, this thing is destined for a slow but inevitable death.   

[Motoboss]

9 hours ago, idrive said:

 

IF there are some PGA guys wanting to join liv they're most likely the guys GN isn't interested in.

 

There isn’t 

[bobfoster]

The XFL of golf. Comedy tour. Norman and Mickelson shot their shot, pretty clear from the viewership numbers it didn't work. 

 

The best of HS and college and KF golfers right now don't dream of getting invited by Saudis, they work to get the privilege of a PGAT card. Isn't even close.

[JungleJimbo]

Amusing video of Charles Barkley's swing (mentions LIV).

 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

13 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

They might not have the funds for any new signings. Obviously the PIF has the money, but perhaps they no longer want to throw good money after bad. Its been widely reported that spending has already been cut back. I doubt they are interested in another $10M signing bonus to a Charles Howell or Cameron Tringale type. I think they have enough evidence that those types of players just don't move the needle. 

 

I'm sure they could "find" the cash for a Rahm / Rory / Scheffler, but would a Cantlay or even Xander be worth the asking price? Great players, in their prime, but would either attract any new eyes to the product? I think the McKinsey analysis had it right. For this to work, they needed to lock up the top 10 blitzkrieg style. A single initial blow that left the PGAT mortally wounded. Failing that, this thing is destined for a slow but inevitable death.   

 

Y'all need to stop thinking about LIV trying to gain one or more superstar. The model is based on team golf and there simply isn't a captaincy open for a new superstar to step into much less build their own team upon. Unless LIV expands to have more teams or creates its own Premier League, Level 2, 3, etc. there won't be any new superstar signings. Greg did himself a major disservice by signing second tier players as captains. IMO, he would have been better off starting the league with six teams for the first year and then just letting the Rahm's, Rory's and other high caliber players watch the LIV players make fat stacks. 

[dcmidnight]

22 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You may be right.

 

But if BK wins another major this year, there’s no question which tour the best player in the world plays on.

 

That will definitely bring more liv viewers.

 

Not to mention the top pga tour pros will be fielding some pretty embarrassing questions at press conferences lol

 

At this point - I seriously doubt this.

 

I feel like after a year plus, you've either tried LIV or you haven't. You are either going to actively watch LIV or you aren't. Golfers for the most part of taken a side. I just dont see this massive amount of golf fans who have no idea LIV exists and are going to suddenly start watching because Brooks is there.

 

Guys (like me) who have watched parts of several events and still dont like it arent going to suddenly say hey woah Brooks won another major I should start watching LIV. 

[bscinstnct]

9 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

At this point - I seriously doubt this.

 

I feel like after a year plus, you've either tried LIV or you haven't. You are either going to actively watch LIV or you aren't. Golfers for the most part of taken a side. I just dont see this massive amount of golf fans who have no idea LIV exists and are going to suddenly start watching because Brooks is there.

 

Guys (like me) who have watched parts of several events and still dont like it arent going to suddenly say hey woah Brooks won another major I should start watching LIV. 

 

Your points have merit but I disagree with the absolute terms in which you state them. 
 

If BK or other liv guys win majors, every golf fan will know it. Most golf fans know liv is on CW and they will be more receptive to tuning in and seeing what the best player(s) are doing out there.

 

Don’t get me wrong, one major won’t suddenly bring success to liv. And it’s still teetering on the brink of irrelevance.

 

But if BK wins the US Open and then Cam wins the Open again, there will absolutely be more success and viewers brought to liv. 

[MtlJeff]

15 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

They might not have the funds for any new signings. Obviously the PIF has the money, but perhaps they no longer want to throw good money after bad. Its been widely reported that spending has already been cut back. I doubt they are interested in another $10M signing bonus to a Charles Howell or Cameron Tringale type. I think they have enough evidence that those types of players just don't move the needle. 

 

I'm sure they could "find" the cash for a Rahm / Rory / Scheffler, but would a Cantlay or even Xander be worth the asking price? Great players, in their prime, but would either attract any new eyes to the product? I think the McKinsey analysis had it right. For this to work, they needed to lock up the top 10 blitzkrieg style. A single initial blow that left the PGAT mortally wounded. Failing that, this thing is destined for a slow but inevitable death.   

 

I think the "tipping point" battle with LIV will be ranking points or other methods to qualify for majors (like perhaps the majors awarding LIV 5 spots per major for non-exempt players). I think their performance in majors has made them a bit more compelling, especially with how good Brooks has been (right now he's arguably the best golfer in the world and he's on LIV). But you're right there's too many teams that are very bland

 

I would guess that there is some major work going on behind the scenes to prevent this from ever happening, and if i had to bet , i would guess that it won't no matter what LIV does or how much they change. 

 

However if i'm incorrect, i think once there is a clear path to qualifying for majors, they would get 3-4 more big names right away. I agree the days of like 30M for a 40yr old guy past his prime are probably over. But if Justin Thomas called them i bet he'd get a nice payday. 

 

I could see LIV failing within 2-3 years, but i still think there's a few different watershed type things that could happen where they might make it. Ranking points would be one.....also what if some big personality or company just bought the league? Like a network, or a big sports company (likely a non-US one). 

 

Like this dude Shahid Khan who owns AEW wrestling and the Jaguars, what if he's just like "ill buy the league"...someone like that. Lot of rich guys out there who might want the status

[Noles]

How were the ratings for the LIV event in DC?

[Golferpaul]

22 hours ago, bladehunter said:

What’s your purpose ?   Some of us aren’t wired for consuming.  
 

bryson may be finding purpose outside of golf in his retirement.  For sure it’s doable. But I haven’t read or seen him mention it.  The regret won’t come until he’s too old to reverse it.     Guys at that level of competition aren’t guys who can just sit around.  That drive is part of their dna.  See Arnold , jack , player for easy low hanging examples.  Plenty of people don’t have that.  So I get not understanding that perspective.  . But for those who do , quitting and cashing out with No forward plan , aim or purpose is hard to imagine.  

Why do you assume that when somebody retires early that they have no purpose?

[Short Pete]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Y'all need to stop thinking about LIV trying to gain one or more superstar. The model is based on team golf and there simply isn't a captaincy open for a new superstar to step into much less build their own team upon. Unless LIV expands to have more teams or creates its own Premier League, Level 2, 3, etc. there won't be any new superstar signings. Greg did himself a major disservice by signing second tier players as captains. IMO, he would have been better off starting the league with six teams for the first year and then just letting the Rahm's, Rory's and other high caliber players watch the LIV players make fat stacks. 

They will try to get every relevant player they can. But they won't get any. If they recruited Scheffler they'd kick Captain Kaymer out and give the team to Scottie. He would team up with Canter, Bland and Ogletree. Wow!

 

They'd sell their grandma for more viewers and positive press. The last significant signing was Cam Smith (a dull and boring personality with a weird haircut, if you ask me), most the tournaments are won by field fillers like Chucky III Sticks, Harold Varner or Talor Gooch. Jediah Morgan, James Piot and Sihwan Kim still play. You still cannot buy team merch. They don't tell the world about their ratings. Greg ist very quiet lately. Nobody cares about these teams except the few and select LIV aficionados like Cactus Jack. I'm sure it's fun watching this on-site. You can get close to the players, they can all play golf, there's party there. But apart from this the horse is already dead.

[dcmidnight]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

But if BK wins the US Open and then Cam wins the Open again, there will absolutely be more success and viewers brought to liv. 

 

But from where - who is going to watch?

 

If you are a golf fan right now, you've tried LIV if you wanted to. You either like the broadcast style or you dont, like the shotgun start and the team play and the loud music - or you dont. Etc.  I just do not see there being and fans right now who lets say have decided they dont like LIV for whatever reason - but if these guys win two majors those fans are suddenly going to say oh wait, suddenly I like the broadcast team and the loud music and I care if the RangeGoats beat the Cleeks. 

 

Maybe they literally pick up a handful of straggler fans but I see it being very, very minimal.

[bscinstnct]

54 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

But from where - who is going to watch?

 

If you are a golf fan right now, you've tried LIV if you wanted to. You either like the broadcast style or you dont, like the shotgun start and the team play and the loud music - or you dont. Etc.  I just do not see there being and fans right now who lets say have decided they dont like LIV for whatever reason - but if these guys win two majors those fans are suddenly going to say oh wait, suddenly I like the broadcast team and the loud music and I care if the RangeGoats beat the Cleeks. 

 

Maybe they literally pick up a handful of straggler fans but I see it being very, very minimal.

 

“I just do not see there being and fans right now who lets say have decided they dont like LIV for whatever reason”

 

I, along with many, have a predisposition to detesting liv lol. On multiple levels. 
 

But the main reason that I, and hundreds of thousands of others don’t watch is because of the field strength/quality of the players. Not the format or music. 
 

The same reason people watch a pga tour event with a lot of top ten players and don’t watch a lesser event. It’s not the venue or format, it’s the talent that’s playing. 
 

Put it this way, if Tiger 1.0 was playing now and jumped from the pga tour and joined liv, their average viewers would jump to 1MM+ instantly.

 

Likewise, if all of a sudden, Rory, Rahmbo, JT, and Scheff joined LIV, ratings would double easily. 

 

People watch sports to see the best quality talent play.

 

For example, I’ve lived in NY my whole life and have had the perennial loser Jets on my TV every Sunday for decades. Even though it’s the NFL and I’m a huge football fan, I never watch the Jets for the last 10 years or more. 
 

Now they signed Aaron Rodgers and the D is good, myself and huge numbers of people are now pumped to tune in. 
 

So, as I mentioned, one major won’t do it and they are on the precipice of failure. But if their guys start winning majors, whole new ballgame. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by bscinstnct

[jdl]

3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Y'all need to stop thinking about LIV trying to gain one or more superstar. The model is based on team golf and there simply isn't a captaincy open for a new superstar to step into much less build their own team upon. Unless LIV expands to have more teams or creates its own Premier League, Level 2, 3, etc. there won't be any new superstar signings. Greg did himself a major disservice by signing second tier players as captains. IMO, he would have been better off starting the league with six teams for the first year and then just letting the Rahm's, Rory's and other high caliber players watch the LIV players make fat stacks. 

Yeah but the "model based on team golf" is unlikely to succeed as previously discussed. First off, they need to go "all in" on the team aspect to have any chance instead of just lip service like they have so far. Get the teams actually playing each other, head to head. Foursomes/fourballs, probably a bunch of other interesting formats could be used to make that team aspect really important.

 

But here's the problem with that:

 

Actually putting all their chips into the team aspect would mean playing all those other formats that would significantly limit their chances to get OWGR points. And thus making it unlikely to attract more superstar players.

 

So ultimately I see them as being between the proverbial rock and hard place.

[me05501]

I think there were a few miscalculations with the format from the drop, and they make the product less than compelling for a TV audience. 

 

To wit: 

• BIG IDEA 1: A shotgun start will allow the entire field to be on the course at once, shortening the TV window and giving the players a predictable schedule and shorter workday. 
  THE ISSUES: The shotgun start caps the field at a certain number of players for all eternity. It leads to finishes where the winner is putting out on a random hole with no grandstands. And it reminds fans of charity scrambles more than professional tournament golf. 
   
• BIG IDEA 2: Team competition will add a second layer of excitement and motivation for fans and players and provide an ongoing financial incentive to our most important players.
  THE ISSUE: Very few fans are buying into the team concept, which is undercut by the fact that the team members aren't playing together in the same foursomes. 
   
• BIG IDEA 3: It's a global tour that will appeal to a global fan base.
  THE ISSUE: Playing a global schedule leads to time-shifted broadcasts in almost every market which isn't something golf fans want to adapt to on a weekly basis. 
   
• BIG IDEA 4: Play a limited schedule so the players are fresh and happy to be there. 
  THE ISSUE: There's no momentum or flow to the schedule so each event is starting from scratch in terms of promotion and building excitement. 
   
• BIG IDEA 5: Recruit the best/most popular players in the world to help attract an audience.  
  THE ISSUE: These players aren't nearly as motivated by winning as they were on the PGA Tour and often play relatively mediocre golf compared to the field fillers. 

 

Honestly it's a little hard to believe they missed the mark by such a large margin.

 

Maybe some of these policies were things Norman came up with or gave in to during the initial phase of player recruitment. Maybe he was just spitballing or saying whatever it took to get guys interested. Who knows. 

[Shilgy]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:30 AM, bscinstnct said:

 

You may be right.

 

But if BK wins another major this year, there’s no question which tour the best player in the world plays on.

 

That will definitely bring more liv viewers.

 

Not to mention the top pga tour pros will be fielding some pretty embarrassing questions at press conferences lol

Do you think if Mike Trout went to play in Japan that would dramatically increase US interest in Japan league baseball?

 

The best competition is still on the PGA Tour.  LIV has a handful at most of the top players.

 

As for @CDM claiming Cam Smith finishing 9th was a big win….he’s 9th in the owgr which many say is artificially low for him.  Why would he be ecstatic finishing worse than his believed ranking?

[idrive]

12 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

The best of HS and college and KF golfers right now don't dream of getting invited by Saudis, they work to get the privilege of a PGAT card. Isn't even close.

 

Hadn't thought about this angle but it's absolutely true.

 

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Greg did himself a major disservice by signing second tier players as captains. 

 

 

Exactly.

 

I'd challenge any typical golf fan to name the captains of the teams. 

 

The answer is, they can't.  Outside of a couple of captains I'd be willing to bet they have no idea who the other captains are. Now, lets see you name the players who round out those teams. Once again, even the avid fan has no idea who makes up these teams.

 

The teams are plain and simply irrelevant.

 

2 hours ago, Noles said:

How were the ratings for the LIV event in DC?

 

🤣

They (liv) stopped reporting the viewership about 4? exhibitions ago.

 

Speaks volumes.

[jls667]

From where I sit, I think if LIV was going to become at legitimate competitor for the PGAT now it would have already done so. I could be wrong. I've been wrong many times before. They were certainly threat at the beginning but the PGAT went on defense and made adjustments. At this point, with all the changes the tour made, unless LIV pulls some rabbit out of their hat they have no real rebuttal. I'm not sure even getting on a larger broadcast network could help. XFL/USFL barely skate by and they have a level of broadcast support that LIV only dreams of.

 

I'm surrounded by sports nuts where I live who watch pretty much anything that is on TV (except NASCAR....just not big in this area) and I'm not sure they could tell you a thing about LIV, 95% of it's players, when it's on or where to find it. They know a few of the big names that left but it all ends there. LIV needs the casual sports fan to watch to survive, not us. And the casual US sports fan's yearly schedule is already loaded with NFL/NCAA football, NBA/NCAA basketball, MLB, NASCAR, some NHL with PGAT golf filling in gaps along the way during the slow summer of mid season baseball. How does LIV plan to wedge itself into there? MLS struggles to really do it and more people play/played soccer or have kids who play soccer than golf.

 

Also I wouldn't look at event crowds as a sign of improvement or growth. I don't care for LIV or watch it but if I had buddies who were going, then hell I'd go too. Cheap tickets. Watch good golfers play in person. Drink some beers. But I'm not going to regularly invest my time into it once I get home.

[cardia10]

Remember it was NIcklaus as one of the main founders of the PGA Tour based on the PGA of America not listening to players (a little history repeating itself it seems.) It is quite simple that if the tour had listened to anyone but 2-3 top players, LIV would not exist. It does now and has almost 50% of the last 5 years worth of major winners. Rory hasn't won one in almost 10 years while Mickelson had one just a couple years ago. I hate it because I want to see the best play together more often, but I have spoken to a couple current players who have considered leaving based on PGA Tour leadership only listening to the ideas of a couple players. Those couple don't have the same financial needs as the other guys. 

 

I think it will all settle soon as the PGA Tour will in no way allow the results of the LIV legal discovery become public. It would reach to every major host and likely around the world. I'm hoping for a conclusion soon.

Edited June 1, 2023 by cardia10

[Noles]

3 hours ago, idrive said:

 

They (liv) stopped reporting the viewership about 4? exhibitions ago.

 

Speaks volumes.

Aren"t ratings done by Nielson?

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Why do you assume that when somebody retires early that they have no purpose?

It’s a generalization for sure.  No issue admitting that.  But. I’m around retirees daily . My business is a niche that caters to the independently wealthy and most are retired or semi retired. Their purpose seems to be consuming.  As in spending money .  They have made up arbitrary deadlines , all based around how quickly they can get that next purchase high.     Around here we call it being “ caught up “. Which means that you have nothing better to do than engineer drama to make your life seem meaningful.  
 

i don’t know. I guess I’ve been around farming/ers to long.  The feeling of purpose is never ending.  And you won’t find many who ever really retire.  They keep working and live forever.  ( comparatively) 

 

none of this is meant as a slight to you.  I just can’t see how a young man can just stop.  Have no reason to get up and go daily.  Etc. He was chasing records.   Now that path is blocked.  

[Motoboss]

9 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Your points have merit but I disagree with the absolute terms in which you state them. 
 

If BK or other liv guys win majors, every golf fan will know it. Most golf fans know liv is on CW and they will be more receptive to tuning in and seeing what the best player(s) are doing out there.

 

Don’t get me wrong, one major won’t suddenly bring success to liv. And it’s still teetering on the brink of irrelevance.

 

But if BK wins the US Open and then Cam wins the Open again, there will absolutely be more success and viewers brought to liv. 

I think most LIV fans here misconstrue the premise. GOLF fans don’t care about the  LIV “stars” winning PGA events They just can’t get behind shot gun start, 54 hole scramble, resort team golf events. They just don’t care at all for the whole format, no matter who is playing. Plain and simple, and pure evidence there are no PGA “stars” clamming to go to the clown show. After this amount of time folks, both players and fans have made their choice.

Please stop the “well if” goes to LiV, or wins all the majors, blah, blah blah…….the ridiculous speculation is tiresome and not based on fact or evidence. Pure and simple it’s begging for a positive outcome which isn’t going to happen.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Motoboss

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Motoboss said:

I think most LIV fans here misconstrue the premise. GOLF fans don’t care about the  LIV “stars” winning PGA events They just can’t get behind shot gun start, 54 hole scramble, resort team golf events. They just don’t care at all for the whole format, no matter who is playing. Plain and simple, and pure evidence there are no PGA “stars” clamming to go to the clown show. After this amount of time folks, both players and fans have made their choice.

Please stop the “well if” goes to LiV, or wins all the majors, blah, blah blah…….the ridiculous speculation is tiresome and not based on fact or evidence. Pure and simple it’s begging for a positive outcome which isn’t going to happen.

 

You must have missed the post where I said I detest LIV and don’t watch ; )

 

Read my posts above for details and I doubt you’ll disagree. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by bscinstnct

[HackerDave]

The business model is so flawed I really don't know where to start.   From the beginning, it all seemed rushed.   They signed some players but had no tv contract.   They were weeks away from starting but still hadn't locked down venues.  Sponsors?   There were none.   Youtube?   Seriously?  There was little promotion or education about the team concept and to this day, I still don't understand it.  

 

Then there is the format.  Mixing in teams with individual results/payouts?    We play in an annual tourney that features a stroke play championship with a concurrent match play tourney.  The stroke play is the "big event" so thats what we all focus on.  The match play event is pretty meaningless.  We have to post our scores so that kind of defeats the strategy of match play. 

 

Now this may just be an issue for me, but I can't get past the names for the teams.  Seriously, it sounds like a U8 soccer league.   We are a year into it and with a gun to my head, I couldn't name a complete team roster.  The team concept is meaningless and has gained zero traction.  

 

Shotgun starts.   Doesn't really hurt anything but I don't see how it helps.  Limited field with no promotion or demotion?   Ok...but kind of boring.  

 

So LIV amounts to 4 or 5 "top" golfers who left the PGA for an exhibition league and the rest are simply that....the rest.   

 

Last but by no means last....the CW?   Here in Michigan, not even the CW will televise it.   I will be shocked if the Saudi's don't pull the plug after this season.

[golfortennis]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

It’s a generalization for sure.  No issue admitting that.  But. I’m around retirees daily . My business is a niche that caters to the independently wealthy and most are retired or semi retired. Their purpose seems to be consuming.  As in spending money .  They have made up arbitrary deadlines , all based around how quickly they can get that next purchase high.     Around here we call it being “ caught up “. Which means that you have nothing better to do than engineer drama to make your life seem meaningful.  
 

i don’t know. I guess I’ve been around farming/ers to long.  The feeling of purpose is never ending.  And you won’t find many who ever really retire.  They keep working and live forever.  ( comparatively) 

 

none of this is meant as a slight to you.  I just can’t see how a young man can just stop.  Have no reason to get up and go daily.  Etc. He was chasing records.   Now that path is blocked.  

 

I think there may be a disconnect here.  A lot of people who retire are retiring from the rat race, being wage slaves.  The purpose was to accumulate enough money to provide for the family  and be able to do whatever they want.  Very few people find "purpose" in being a middle manager at a company.  It's a paycheck, no more no less.  Once the wealth is built up enough that that is no longer necessary, you walk away, unless you have ambitions of executive level jobs.  These people you refer to, keep people like yourself employed in your kind of business, so you're not having to go work for someone else.  Consumption does keep many people employed.  Maybe it's not some grand definition of purpose, but people are allowed to enjoy their lives as they see fit.

 

Farmers are an interesting lot(and I come from farming stock).  In many cases, yes there is the love of it, but in many cases they are land rich and cash poor.  They *have* to keep at it to pay their bills.  They are sitting on a fortune, but don't want to part with it(typically due to family legacies), so the only option is to keep at it.  

 

I don't know.  You have your reasons for doing what you do or don't do, but to suggest another man has no purpose but should have one is a bit of a reach to me.  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

I think there may be a disconnect here.  A lot of people who retire are retiring from the rat race, being wage slaves.  The purpose was to accumulate enough money to provide for the family  and be able to do whatever they want.  Very few people find "purpose" in being a middle manager at a company.  It's a paycheck, no more no less.  Once the wealth is built up enough that that is no longer necessary, you walk away, unless you have ambitions of executive level jobs.  These people you refer to, keep people like yourself employed in your kind of business, so you're not having to go work for someone else.  Consumption does keep many people employed.  Maybe it's not some grand definition of purpose, but people are allowed to enjoy their lives as they see fit.

 

Farmers are an interesting lot(and I come from farming stock).  In many cases, yes there is the love of it, but in many cases they are land rich and cash poor.  They *have* to keep at it to pay their bills.  They are sitting on a fortune, but don't want to part with it(typically due to family legacies), so the only option is to keep at it.  

 

I don't know.  You have your reasons for doing what you do or don't do, but to suggest another man has no purpose but should have one is a bit of a reach to me.  

Fair enough. But I didn’t really say they had no purpose. I asked what it was.  Notice there wasn’t a quick and easy reply.  
 

a song once said that “ there were choices “.  Life is all about them.  Being the middle manager at a job that makes you want to hang yourself daily is a choice. A poor one. ( for me )  In my opinion.  But retiring early from pro golf in your prime for a shaky payout is much worse.  Also in my opinion.  But there again , I’m the competitive type.  Money would just be the harvest of competition.  Not the main attraction.    
 

I find money easy to make.  Also hard  to keep.  Easy because all you have to do is work at something that isn’t a luxury. Most won’t.  Eating will never go out of style. Neither will indoor plumbing.   And one feeds the other.  Hard to keep because every corner hides the tax man …. But I digress.  
 

to try to land this plane. That’s my point. I see Bryson etc as going from free players with unlimited earning potential ( performance dependent- kill what you eat ) to being wage slaves.  I sat here and thought about how much it would take me to close shop and go to work for somebody else.  And it’s a huge number.  Many times what I clear now.  And even then I question how long I’d last with the Bill Lumbergs and Greg Norman’s of the word ??  My guess is it’s measured in weeks or months. Not years. 😂

Edited June 2, 2023 by bladehunter

[CDM]

10 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Do you think if Mike Trout went to play in Japan that would dramatically increase US interest in Japan league baseball?

 

The best competition is still on the PGA Tour.  LIV has a handful at most of the top players.

 

As for @CDM claiming Cam Smith finishing 9th was a big win….he’s 9th in the owgr which many say is artificially low for him.  Why would he be ecstatic finishing worse than his believed ranking?

 

PGAT comp is not the level anymore simple true fact.  The elevated events will have better comp's or should and hoping Jack's event shows that.  

 

The point I am making si the players who left the PGAT which is their choice, no one else has been that "LIV players are washed up, has beens"  but sure is not that way.   ITS GOLF as I have said a 100 times in this thread and funny so has Rahm this week. The politics is the waste.... just play golf..!!!

 

If someone wanted to "argue" in this thread about "talent" between tours which is dumb really it would be a mute point if you look at the how the top 20 finished in those majors.   Only Scotty has been rock solid, he might be the best player next to Tiger I have seen that limits his mistakes.  Fantastic course management...!    

 

All of them are players.... regardless of where they play.