LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[HackerDave]

7 hours ago, King_Slender said:

 

I think the biggest issue with the model they are trying to emulate - F1 - is that the reason F1 sponsors buy those teams is to showcase their cars.  Yeah, the drivers are important, but the teams are Ferarri, Mercedes, Mclaren for the most part (and a few rando rich guys).

 

For this to work like that, you'd need Taylor Made, Titleist, Nike and the like to buy teams.  I don't know that I see that happening.

 

We'll know in 2 years when the contracts start drying up - LIV is going to have to pay a guy like Brooks, if he's still playing well, $500M to stay around. 

The thing is when somebody like Brooks wins, people don't think of it as a LIV win.  They think Brooks won.   When Matt Fitzpatrick won, did anybody claim it as a huge win for the DP World Tour?   No.   Matt won!!!   This is an individual sport.   That's not to say you couldn't create a team format.  That's what LIV claims they are going to do....eventually....maybe.....for sure....some day....blah blah blah    IMO, the format was suspect to start, but the implementation has been god awful and as they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.   

[jimecherry]

47 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

Your math is rough 7 completed events/14 events scheduled is 7/14 is that a 1/3?   Liv's future is more bleak then it's past, how will Liv ever recover the money invested?

Pif invested in crypto and nfts and your like how can these people possibly be burning money ;}

[freeze16172002]

27 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

 

This guy sounds like he leveraged LIV to squeeze more money out of the PGA Tour. He called and said "we're leaving unless you step it up," and Monahan did just that.

 

Edit: oh jeez, I didn't even realize this CEO was Ari Emanuel.

I would be really surprised that a company with a 10 billion market cap would take a billion dollar flyer on Liv. That's a high risk no safety net investment

[bscinstnct]

3 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

Jay was able to shut down a potential $1B investment in LIV via a phone call. The guy has more influence than I thought. I'm curious if using his influence on third parties to protect his self-interest will be viewed as anti-competitive by the feds. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ceo-says-endeavor-considered-1-220345311.html

 

Don’t this saying,

 

”Please dont do it”

 

Would be considered anti competitive; )

 

 

Egon then called somebody at the PGA (Tour). And, you know, we're all connected in golf. And they said, 'please don't do it.' So, we stopped,” Emanuel said. “Right. I'm friends with (PGA Tour commissioner) Jay (Monahan), we have a lot of business with Jay. I don't want to hurt Jay. But I just thought, you know, I'm always looking for the next sport. The next thing we can do. So, we pulled out.

"I said to Jay, 'Jay, we're pulling up, but you have got to figure out an economic solution, because it's gonna force you.' And he did, to his credit. I think Jay did an incredible job.”

 

https://www.si.com/golf/.amp/news/pga-tour-behest-entertainment-giant-pulled-investment-liv-golf

 

 

[2bGood]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:56 AM, Golferpaul said:

00 

Once you add the belt loops, I am not sure they are really joggers, more like trousers with a short/skinny hem/cuff

 

either way they look silly. But I am old and fat. 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by 2bGood

[Soloman1]

2 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

how will Liv ever recover the money invested?

 

The PIF will glance at their watches for 30 seconds and say, “We just made that back in oil sales.”

[Motoboss]

23 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You must have missed the post where I said I detest LIV and don’t watch ; )

 

Read my posts above for details and I doubt you’ll disagree. 

No, no no I totally got that and was going to point out not “you” specifically but just the whole thread was my intended direction.

I know you understand the begging and fantasies by the adoring public.

[One Putter]

12 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

According to a couple of LIV execs, PIF understands it’s a long term commitment. If this is, it brings a different assessment to measuring success at this stage,

 

“According to two LIV executives this week at LIV Golf Washington D.C., the business plan that was presented to the PIF before LIV Golf’s launch was a multi-decade plan, so there are no surprises internally if the investment takes a while to flourish.”

 

https://www.si.com/golf/.amp/news/one-year-in-business-liv-golf-execs-vow-improvement-were-not-going-anywhere

 

 

If they are really thinking this long term, PIF may actually be content with the overall current traction, especially if they can boast after a major,

 

Ahhh, see, our man Brooks won! We have the best player in the world.

 

Decades-long plan?

 

[BNGL]

Not to get too sentimental or anything but watching the old chronicles of champion golfer (have watched them all back to back all day, I went out hit a bucket of balls putter around till about from 645 to 1030 came back made lunch locked myself upstairs and started watching). Norman was a hell of a player kids…hell of a player regardless of the hoopla today sadly (all his own doing) not what he’ll be remembered for

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, BNGL said:

Not to get too sentimental or anything but watching the old chronicles of champion golfer (have watched them all back to back all day, I went out hit a bucket of balls putter around till about from 645 to 1030 came back made lunch locked myself upstairs and started watching). Norman was a hell of a player kids…hell of a player regardless of the hoopla today sadly (all his own doing) not what he’ll be remembered for

 

Moe?

[freeze16172002]

4 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

The PIF will glance at their watches for 30 seconds and say, “We just made that back in oil sales.”

you obviously dont understand the kingdom doesnt except failure lightly

Edited June 3, 2023 by freeze16172002

[mitchl]

5 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Once you add the belt loops, I am not sure they are really joggers, more like tourers with a short/skiiny hem/cuff

 

either way they look silly. But I am old and fat. 

 

 

 

These are trousers with a short hem too.   Some might say this looks silly too, but the only thing awful about this picture is those horrid colors - it makes you want to puke.

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by mitchl

[dalehead]

17 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

According to a couple of LIV execs, PIF understands it’s a long term commitment. If this is, it brings a different assessment to measuring success at this stage,

 

“According to two LIV executives this week at LIV Golf Washington D.C., the business plan that was presented to the PIF before LIV Golf’s launch was a multi-decade plan, so there are no surprises internally if the investment takes a while to flourish.”

 

https://www.si.com/golf/.amp/news/one-year-in-business-liv-golf-execs-vow-improvement-were-not-going-anywhere

 

 

If they are really thinking this long term, PIF may actually be content with the overall current traction, especially if they can boast after a major,

 

Ahhh, see, our man Brooks won! We have the best player in the world.

 

I’ve said it before. When you start saying things like “we’re playing the long game” you’re really saying”sure, we’ve been a failure so far, but just wait.” Multi decade plan? Do you really think SA or anyone else can look decades into the future and predict what the world of golf, or even the world, will look like then?

[dalehead]

13 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

But would it? If you can buy 100% of something that has zero revenue is that better than buying 1/12th of something that has zero revenue? At that point it just becomes a Ponzi scheme and the person that buys into the flip last gets left holding the bag when the curtain is pulled.

 

I think the person that posted before about these contracts being up has it nailed. When these guys have deals that come due - thats when we'll find out whats what. Not decades from now. When you have to decide if you are going to give Brooks a 10 year/$1B deal, thats when we'll see how far they are going to take this.

They will have other player decisions to make. In two years, when supposedly the first round of contracts are up, 11 of their players will be 45 or older. Many are there now. Do you offer those guys new contracts? If not, who do you replace them with? At what cost?

[Hawkeye77]

19 hours ago, 2bGood said:

The only issue with this take, is the biggest name that jumped was also one of the top guys at the PGA with the opportunity to 'call the shots' . The Pecking order was Tiger, Phil, Rory etc. 

 

Phil left because he wanted MORE of the dynamic where top guys call the shots, not less. 

And sure doesn't seem like he's calling any shots off course in any way that was "expected" by him or anyone he recruited.

[Hawkeye77]

23 hours ago, cardia10 said:

I think the way many PGA guys jumped ship so fast shows a few tho ga. 1. That money talks but 2. That things were that bad on the PGA Tour that they had to find a way out. I’ve heard it for years that “player only” meetings were a couple too guys while everyone else was expected to bow to their ideas while the PGA listened but never took them seriously land why would they. The tour has never faced competition. They have been the top of the world choice to play golf. We won’t even get into to the reasoning for banning players like the supposed release. Top players have done this for years with no signed release. It was never a problem until a competitor existed. The good thing is that LIV will likely fizzle or be absorbed but the positives that comes to everyone on whatever is left standing will be much improved. 

LOL, "things were so bad", "had to find a way out" --- far from downtrodden, far from nowhere to turn in a bad sports noir movie, just mostly spoiled beyond belief, haha.  The Tour has always faced competition in various forms, not just golf, this nonsense forced some changes, which look to be positive overall, but the Tour also has done a darn good job of getting sponsors and players to buy in, without whom there wouldn't be any significant changes.

[Ghost of Snead]

12 hours ago, BNGL said:

Not to get too sentimental or anything but watching the old chronicles of champion golfer (have watched them all back to back all day, I went out hit a bucket of balls putter around till about from 645 to 1030 came back made lunch locked myself upstairs and started watching). Norman was a hell of a player kids…hell of a player regardless of the hoopla today sadly (all his own doing) not what he’ll be remembered for

 

Sure he was and so is Phil but ...

 

Lynch: Phil Mickelson’s Twitter rants put lack of character on display (usatoday.com)

[2putttom]

23 hours ago, mitchl said:

 

These are trousers with a short hem too.   Some might say this looks silly too, but the only thing awful about this picture is those horrid colors - it makes you want to puke.

 

 I see what you did there. Not a fan of  🤣

[BNGL]

14 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Sure he was and so is Phil but ...

 

Lynch: Phil Mickelson’s Twitter rants put lack of character on display (usatoday.com)

Not sure why my previous posts retorting your comment weren’t posted?
 

 I know Greg a little bit, pompous arse, but he’s still a fantastic player. Maybe I’m too much of a simpleton to connect Norman, Phil, et al. to other things but I consume LIV for what it is, more golf. When I went to LIV Orlando, my only thought was I can see Phil again (maybe for the last time). I don’t know Phil well enough to judge his character beyond what I read or hear thru the grapevine, which I always take with a grain of salt. Although I did read his latest comment which made me legit laugh out loud I thought it was hilarious. But in the end who am I to judge these guys? They’re golfers I’m not going to let that stop me from watching elite golf it’s what I enjoy.

[BNGL]

Interesting comments about potentially financing LIV Golf from Ari Emanuel check out a freakonomics podcast released this week. 

[bcjim]

I don't think the PGATour has any concern about monopoly or anticompetitive practice. 

 

It's unclear that sgl is even profit motivated. 

 

 

[idrive]

11 hours ago, BNGL said:

But in the end who am I to judge these guys? They’re golfers I’m not going to let that stop me from watching elite golf it’s what I enjoy.

 

The 10-15 "elite" players that play for liv would be playing in the Memorial this week. Instead, they're not.

 

How does this make for the best golf possible when you thin out the field have them playing different places at different times?

 

Like I've mentioned, liv has diluted professional golf.  It's not as good as it once was or could/should be.

 

I'd also argue that liv is not elite.  It's an invitational. An exhibition.  The best players are not playing together. 10-15 elite players does not a tournament make when you have 30 guys that would struggle to hold a PGAT card.

 

I'll take the opportunity to shake Jacks hand any day over playing for liv. 

 

 

[Shilgy]

On 6/2/2023 at 5:17 AM, King_Slender said:

 

I think the biggest issue with the model they are trying to emulate - F1 - is that the reason F1 sponsors buy those teams is to showcase their cars.  Yeah, the drivers are important, but the teams are Ferarri, Mercedes, Mclaren for the most part (and a few rando rich guys).

 

For this to work like that, you'd need Taylor Made, Titleist, Nike and the like to buy teams.  I don't know that I see that happening.

 

We'll know in 2 years when the contracts start drying up - LIV is going to have to pay a guy like Brooks, if he's still playing well, $500M to stay around. 

Yes, Brooks will cost A LOT more.  But would any of the others they’ve signed?  Will a DJ even want to play more golf or ride into the sunset?  If they are not getting OWGR points will any top 50 player want to sign with them?  Will guys like Bryson and Gooch try to work their way back onto the PGA Tour?

[chasm]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:41 AM, mitchl said:

 

These are trousers with a short hem too.   Some might say this looks silly too, but the only thing awful about this picture is those horrid colors - it makes you want to puke.

 

Fabulous position at the top of the backswing, would be even better if a black and white photo!

[Cactus Jack]

Rory once again affirming LIV's impact. However, this time angling to increase purses at the Majors. He's a smart guy, leads the Players Council, and has, and will continue to leverage the PGAT for every last dollar. How soon until we start to hear about a players union...

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/rory-mcilroy-players-skip-majors-for-less-prize-money-memorial-pga-tour

[Cactus Jack]

8 hours ago, idrive said:

 

The 10-15 "elite" players that play for liv would be playing in the Memorial this week. Instead, they're not.

 

How does this make for the best golf possible when you thin out the field have them playing different places at different times?

 

Like I've mentioned, liv has diluted professional golf.  It's not as good as it once was or could/should be.

 

I'd also argue that liv is not elite.  It's an invitational. An exhibition.  The best players are not playing together. 10-15 elite players does not a tournament make when you have 30 guys that would struggle to hold a PGAT card.

 

I'll take the opportunity to shake Jacks hand any day over playing for liv. 

 

 

 

The product has been diluted for decades and the top players rarely played together outside of majors. Rory and crew screamed this from the mountain tops. All the top players spewed this language for months upon months. In response, they now have no-cut limited field guaranteed & elevated money exhibitions.  

[ThinkingPlus]

9 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

Rory once again affirming LIV's impact. However, this time angling to increase purses at the Majors. He's a smart guy, leads the Players Council, and has, and will continue to leverage the PGAT for every last dollar. How soon until we start to hear about a players union...

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/rory-mcilroy-players-skip-majors-for-less-prize-money-memorial-pga-tour

You mean the players would form a union against themselves. How novel. The players essentially own the PGAT so they would be both management and union.

[drumdude96]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:41 PM, mitchl said:

 

These are trousers with a short hem too.   Some might say this looks silly too, but the only thing awful about this picture is those horrid colors - it makes you want to puke.

 

Kinda looks like St. Louis Blues colors to me, which I definitely like.  And Payne had one of the sweetest swings in the history of golf.  I love watching the old Shell's Wonderful World of Golf episode with him vs Nick Price.  That was some good TV. 

[jimecherry]

A closer look at who's teeing it up at 2023 U.S. Open final qualifying | Golf Channel

6 liv'ers have chosen to participate in us open final qualifying should we be upset they could potentially be taking someone's place.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

Rory once again affirming LIV's impact. However, this time angling to increase purses at the Majors. He's a smart guy, leads the Players Council, and has, and will continue to leverage the PGAT for every last dollar. How soon until we start to hear about a players union...

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/rory-mcilroy-players-skip-majors-for-less-prize-money-memorial-pga-tour

The PGA Tour, unlike other professional sports leagues, has a unique structure and operating model with no owners or teams.  The PGAT functions more like a membership organization that provides a platform for golfers to showcase their skills and earn a living through tournaments. Given the members are the 'owners', who are they unionising against? They have the Player Advisory Council, which acts as a collective voice for players to address concerns, offer feedback, and influence tour policies. This unique setup ensures that players have a direct line of communication with the tour.

 

Maybe they need to rework the governance structure to give players at all levels more or complete control, but a traditional union does not make allot of sense.

Edited June 5, 2023 by 2bGood