LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[KennyP]

10 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

Imagine if he pulled the old SQ2 driver with AXIV green shaft out of the bag, like he'd never been away.

[jdl]

9 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

And the PGAT's $3B investment isn't actually an investment. They received a $1.5B cash bailout with no plans on how to invest the cash beyond subsidizing a broken business model. The remaining $1.5M may never be funded. It's still a material transaction and positive for the tour, but one can easily interpret anything how you see fit. 

 

LIV, Google, and PMY view it as a true partnership. The magnitude and positive impact on the sport, which is plagued by a sub-par TV broadcast, is enormous. Check out the joint released presser.  

 

https://www.livgolf.com/news/google-cloud-and-pmy-join-forces-to-transform-sports-and-events-with-generative-ai

 

 

Google Cloud and PMY partner with LIV Golf on Golf Companion App and first-of-its-kind live broadcast capabilities

LONDON, NEW YORK, WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., and SUNNYVALE, Calif., — Google Cloud and PMY Group (PMY) has announced a new, multi-year partnership in which Google Cloud will serve as PMY’s technology partner for selected sports, events, and venue customers, helping to transform fan experiences through generative AI. Under the partnership, Google Cloud and PMY will work on projects with several major sports and lifestyle brands, including a multi-year agreement with LIV Golf.

 

Thanks for proving my point! 

[Holy Moses]

Bubba just found out that all four scores count on Sunday for the team event. Maybe Wolff wasn’t a great addition 😂.

[wedgegame]

24 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

And the PGAT's $3B investment isn't actually an investment. They received a $1.5B cash bailout with no plans on how to invest the cash beyond subsidizing a broken business model. The remaining $1.5M may never be funded. It's still a material transaction and positive for the tour, but one can easily interpret anything how you see fit. 

 You are the expert on broken business models and interpreting things how you see fit, I will give you that.  

[KennyP]

Got to hand it to the marketing guys at LIV; some big name last minute additions, teaming up with Google for unprecedented camera coverage and now the AK rumour. What next? Teaming up with NVidia to create an AI version of Seve circa 1984?

[italianstallion]

33 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

And the PGAT's $3B investment isn't actually an investment. They received a $1.5B cash bailout with no plans on how to invest the cash beyond subsidizing a broken business model. The remaining $1.5M may never be funded. It's still a material transaction and positive for the tour, but one can easily interpret anything how you see fit. 

 

LIV, Google, and PMY view it as a true partnership. The magnitude and positive impact on the sport, which is plagued by a sub-par TV broadcast, is enormous. Check out the joint released presser.  

 

https://www.livgolf.com/news/google-cloud-and-pmy-join-forces-to-transform-sports-and-events-with-generative-ai

 

 

Google Cloud and PMY partner with LIV Golf on Golf Companion App and first-of-its-kind live broadcast capabilities

LONDON, NEW YORK, WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., and SUNNYVALE, Calif., — Google Cloud and PMY Group (PMY) has announced a new, multi-year partnership in which Google Cloud will serve as PMY’s technology partner for selected sports, events, and venue customers, helping to transform fan experiences through generative AI. Under the partnership, Google Cloud and PMY will work on projects with several major sports and lifestyle brands, including a multi-year agreement with LIV Golf.

 

I hope everyone here appreciates this historic moment as much as I do...the first time in the history of GolfWRX someone used the phrase "check out the joint released presser" in a post.

[Holy Moses]

44 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

And the PGAT's $3B investment isn't actually an investment. They received a $1.5B cash bailout with no plans on how to invest the cash beyond subsidizing a broken business model. The remaining $1.5M may never be funded. It's still a material transaction and positive for the tour, but one can easily interpret anything how you see fit. 

 

LIV, Google, and PMY view it as a true partnership. The magnitude and positive impact on the sport, which is plagued by a sub-par TV broadcast, is enormous. Check out the joint released presser.  

 

https://www.livgolf.com/news/google-cloud-and-pmy-join-forces-to-transform-sports-and-events-with-generative-ai

 

 

Google Cloud and PMY partner with LIV Golf on Golf Companion App and first-of-its-kind live broadcast capabilities

LONDON, NEW YORK, WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., and SUNNYVALE, Calif., — Google Cloud and PMY Group (PMY) has announced a new, multi-year partnership in which Google Cloud will serve as PMY’s technology partner for selected sports, events, and venue customers, helping to transform fan experiences through generative AI. Under the partnership, Google Cloud and PMY will work on projects with several major sports and lifestyle brands, including a multi-year agreement with LIV Golf.

Yasir is paying for 25% of the equity and getting one board seat supposedly

[Titleist99]

2 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Yasir is paying for 25% of the equity and getting one board seat supposedly

Correct. If allowed by the DOJ.... 

[cdnglf]

 

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

LONDON, NEW YORK, WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., and SUNNYVALE, Calif., — Google Cloud and PMY Group (PMY) has announced a new, multi-year partnership in which Google Cloud will serve as PMY’s technology partner for selected sports, events, and venue customers, helping to transform fan experiences through generative AI. Under the partnership, Google Cloud and PMY will work on projects with several major sports and lifestyle brands, including a multi-year agreement with LIV Golf.

 

6-fingered overlap or interlock?

Edited February 1 by cdnglf

[DrunkCaddy]

Here is a question.   Does every PGA player LIV sign increase LIV's valuation?   Fox example, we know that LIV signed Rahm for $200M.  How does that effect the overall valuation of LIV?   If LIV's valuation increases, and if LIV and the PGA do merge, does signing a player such as Rahm give LIV a bigger percentage of PGA Tour Enterprises?   I guess the question is what are the assets of the PGA?  Is it the tournaments?  the players?  or the PGA brand?    

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

And the PGAT's $3B investment isn't actually an investment. They received a $1.5B cash bailout with no plans on how to invest the cash beyond subsidizing a broken business model. The remaining $1.5M may never be funded. It's still a material transaction and positive for the tour, but one can easily interpret anything how you see fit. 

 

LIV, Google, and PMY view it as a true partnership. The magnitude and positive impact on the sport, which is plagued by a sub-par TV broadcast, is enormous. Check out the joint released presser.  

 

https://www.livgolf.com/news/google-cloud-and-pmy-join-forces-to-transform-sports-and-events-with-generative-ai

 

 

Google Cloud and PMY partner with LIV Golf on Golf Companion App and first-of-its-kind live broadcast capabilities

LONDON, NEW YORK, WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., and SUNNYVALE, Calif., — Google Cloud and PMY Group (PMY) has announced a new, multi-year partnership in which Google Cloud will serve as PMY’s technology partner for selected sports, events, and venue customers, helping to transform fan experiences through generative AI. Under the partnership, Google Cloud and PMY will work on projects with several major sports and lifestyle brands, including a multi-year agreement with LIV Golf.

Translation... LIV is paying Google money, hence a customer of Google. Nice spin as a "partnership."

[jimecherry]

1 minute ago, DrunkCaddy said:

Here is a question.   Does every PGA player LIV sign increase LIV's valuation?   Fox example, we know that LIV signed Rahm for $200M.  How does that effect the overall valuation of LIV?   If LIV's valuation increases, and if LIV and the PGA do merge, does signing a player such as Rahm give LIV a bigger percentage of PGA Tour Enterprises?   I guess the question is what are the assets of the PGA?  Is it the tournaments?  the players?  or the PGA brand?    

that depends on whose buying stock market/ public investors would raise price on any news good or bad, then lower price after official earnings reports.

[bscinstnct]

1 minute ago, DrunkCaddy said:

Here is a question.   Does every PGA player LIV sign increase LIV's valuation?   Fox example, we know that LIV signed Rahm for $200M.  How does that effect the overall valuation of LIV?   If LIV's valuation increases, and if LIV and the PGA do merge, does signing a player such as Rahm give LIV a bigger percentage of PGA Tour Enterprises?   I guess the question is what are the assets of the PGA?  Is it the tournaments?  the players?  or the PGA brand?    

 

Valuation is largely determined by balance sheet/profit and projected growth.

 

So, for now, LIV is a black hole with few parallels in the history of business 🤣

 

Perhaps there’s some methodology to value players as assets but

 

How do you forecast the retention of big names once their contracts end and the get the last of their bonus money?

 

Id think the best case for LIV is that PIF assumes/kicks in all the 💰 paid/to be paid, perhaps even operating expenses too until they are break even (if that ever happens)

 

Otherwise all the “debt” just goes against the overall entity valuation. 
 

It’s a very odd situation. 

[jdl]

8 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Translation... LIV is paying Google money, hence a customer of Google. Nice spin as a "partnership."

I think they actually hired PMY to implement this and PMY uses Google Cloud for their infrastructure. Just a lot of nice PR spin, to be fair everyone does it.

[DrunkCaddy]

Just now, bscinstnct said:

 

Valuation is largely determined by balance sheet/profit and projected growth.

 

So, for now, LIV is a black hole with few parallels in the history of business 🤣

 

Perhaps there’s some methodology to value players as assets but

 

How do you forecast the retention of big names once their contracts end and the get the last of their bonus money?

 

Id think the best case for LIV is that PIF assumes/kicks in all the 💰 paid/to be paid, perhaps even operating expenses too until they are break even (if that ever happens)

 

Otherwise all the “debt” just goes against the overall entity valuation. 
 

It’s a very odd situation. 

Obviously profits are non existent for LIV and revenues are low.   But that is true of most start ups and yet many start ups receive valuations that are based more on the technologies  and assets (ie patents, etc).   For example, Nueralink has a supposed valuation of $5B, yet I don't think they have made a single dollar of revenue.  

 

What if Tiger were 20 years younger, and announced tomorrow that he would no longer be playing on the PGA, but instead would start his own league and was looking for investment.   Without a dollar of profit or revenue, I bet Tiger's new league would have a valuation of over $1B on day 1.   What would that be based on?  Tiger, as an asset, of course.  

 

So, do the players that LIV poach increase LIV's valuation?  does it decrease the PGA's value?   and by how much?   I am not sure there is an absolute answer, yet when the leagues merge, someone will have to make that determination.

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

10 minutes ago, jdl said:

I think they actually hired PMY to implement this and PMY uses Google Cloud for their infrastructure. Just a lot of nice PR spin, to be fair everyone does it.

I agree everyone does it. It's just that the LIV fan thinks this is validation for the failed league 😉

[bcjim]

15 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I agree everyone does it. It's just that the LIV fan thinks this is validation for the failed league 😉

If this doesn't work, maybe they can just buy google ads and just loop the tournament feed. You watch whether you want to or not!

[bscinstnct]

20 minutes ago, DrunkCaddy said:

Obviously profits are non existent for LIV and revenues are low.   But that is true of most start ups and yet many start ups receive valuations that are based more on the technologies  and assets (ie patents, etc).   For example, Nueralink has a supposed valuation of $5B, yet I don't think they have made a single dollar of revenue.  

 

What if Tiger were 20 years younger, and announced tomorrow that he would no longer be playing on the PGA, but instead would start his own league and was looking for investment.   Without a dollar of profit or revenue, I bet Tiger's new league would have a valuation of over $1B on day 1.   What would that be based on?  Tiger, as an asset, of course.  

 

So, do the players that LIV poach increase LIV's valuation?  does it decrease the PGA's value?   and by how much?   I am not sure there is an absolute answer, yet when the leagues merge, someone will have to make that determination.

 

 

 

Put it this way 

 

If PIF pulled the plug and stopped putting money into LIV tomorrow 

 

What would it be worth to investors?

 

; )

[jdl]

LIV's new tech is already obsolete!

 

 

Edited February 1 by jdl

[Barfolomew]

Rahm, Tyrrell Hatton and now back from the grave Anthony Kim 💪 as only Liv coulda pulled that one off.... gonna be a great season 🌮

[wedgegame]

27 minutes ago, Barfolomew said:

Rahm, Tyrrell Hatton and now back from the grave Anthony Kim 💪 as only Liv coulda pulled that one off.... gonna be a great season 🌮

 I don't know what it says about professional golf as an entertainment product that despite having many collective major wins on their roster, LIV's highest rated tournament will most likely be the one where a dude who hasn't played in 10 years tees it up.  Not a slight to LIV or AK, just shows how hard it is for even for even the most talented players to break through and draw eyes to the sport.

[jimecherry]

54 minutes ago, jdl said:

LIV's new tech is already obsolete!

 

 

funny how vr headsets have been a thing for over a decade now yet as per usual it takes apple's entry before developers actually take it seriously. pga tour could have done this in 2016 when microsoft released the hololens for 3grand

[smashdn]

6 hours ago, MaineMariner said:

 

The post from Flushing It is also old and doesn't mention that the scale of the LIV production (in terms of cameras and employees) is dwarfed by the PGA Tour's. The PGA Tour literally has double the number of cameras (120+).

 

I just saw where GD had posted similar in the last 24 hrs (regarding the app).  If it is old, GD rolled it back out on its socials too.

[aenemated]

1 hour ago, jdl said:

LIV's new tech is already obsolete!

 

 

 

Sonofa ... 

 

 

[pgapromex]

7 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Are the LIV schills bombarding the PGA Tour Discussion Thread (***No Politics***) or is it the other way around?

Haven't read every page but this is what I see.  Any post offering positive info about LIV is immediately stormed by hordes of drooling zombies heaping scorn and ridicule upon the poster and declaring that whatever it is it won't work and will destroy golf forever.  Why fear what you are convinced won't work?

 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

22 hours ago, bcjim said:

I don't see it. People just aren't going to watch exhibitions. Other than Bryson tearing up Greenbrier can anyone recall anything at all that happened on liv last year??  

 

 

Exactly…. @bscinstnct how would anyone know they have this great showdown you mentioned?  No one** is watching….no one cares**….no one** is looking up who’s in contention…. so how would they get this big audience?

 

** yes “no one” is a stretch.  Should it be changed to “very few”?

[kiwigolf72]

5 minutes ago, pgapromex said:

Haven't read every page but this is what I see.  Any post offering positive info about LIV is immediately stormed by hordes of drooling zombies heaping scorn and ridicule upon the poster and declaring that whatever it is it won't work and will destroy golf forever.  Why fear what you are convinced won't work?

 

 

 

 

I'm not for or against the PGAT or LIV, I agree with your post, the same people (PGAT fans) are just constantly rubbishing what anyone else posts.

I don't read any other forums about the PGAT where LIV supporters are hijacking the forum to bleat the same stuff on a daily basis. 

[Shilgy]

20 hours ago, idrive said:

Here comes Greg. 🤣 Reading this, he sounds like "Nervous Norman" This is all going to backfire in his face.

 

 LIV Golf CEO and Commissioner Greg Norman's message to his entire staff in relation to the news of the Strategic Sports Group's $3 billion investment in the PGA Tour to create a new for-profit entity was simple: onward.

In a letter obtained by Golfweek sent just days before the start of the 2024 LIV Golf League season at Mayakoba's El Camaleon Golf Course in Mexico, Norman wrote to his staff to not just hype up LIV Golf's third official season, but to also downplay any negative impact the SSG investment may have on LIV's future.

An excerpt from the letter:

As you may have seen, the PGA Tour made an announcement this morning about an investment partner. Let me make one thing very clear: nothing announced by other tours or investment groups changes LIV Golf’s positive trajectory or future plans.

We started LIV Golf with the goal of creating something new, taking the game to a global, diverse audience and driving innovation while growing golf’s fanbase. More investment in golf is a great thing for the game and for us. It’s a positive development for our players, our fans, and for the long-term future of the game.

Golf is now viewed as an asset class. We proved this was possible and are now in a unique position to mold and drive this incredible growth opportunity. This broader interest and commitment to the game, and investment in its future, would not have happened without the emergence of LIV Golf as an innovative force in the golf ecosystem.

Norman said the league was "moving full steam ahead" into 2024 and beyond and that he has "never been more confident in the league, the people involved, and our supporters all over the world."

Just seven months ago the Tour announced a framework agreement with the DP World Tour and Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund to create what we now know today as PGA Tour Enterprises. The Tour confirmed in a release on Wednesday that progress has been made in ongoing negotiations with the PIF, LIV Golf's financial backers, on a potential future investment. That same release also stated that PGA Tour Enterprises allows for a co-investment from the PIF in the future, “subject to all necessary regulatory approvals.”

 

 

But are you going to take it serious?  Like it actually means something or is it just about seeing these guys hitting shots as fast as they can show them.  

 

And lets not forget about how important these teams are and all the strategy coming down the stretch... 🤣

 

😉

 

But you missed the best line in his little speech.  Can someone explain to me the “incredible success “. Spent a bit over $3b of the Saudi money and had very little income in two years of this exhibition tour.

 

We are moving full steam ahead and expanding on the incredible success we have already achieved in a very short time. 

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

 "All they need to do is spend another $50 Billion and I might watch a couple of hours one day 🤣"

 

🤣Absolutely! What's weird about it is that BK and Cam Smith were two of my favorite players to watch play golf and for some reason, I've yet to watch them in close to two years. Totally weird....🤣

 

Maybe one day I'll take LIV seriously.

[pgapromex]

The old hotness (pre LIV merger) vs the new hotness

 

Old:  This leaderboard sucks, bunch of nobodies I never heard of.   Yawn

 

New:  All nobody leaderboard rules, it's all about the pipeline Yo!

 

Old: Major winners rule!

 

New:  Last year's major winners are champions tour has beens.

 

Old:  Rory sucks, chokes

 

New:  Rory is our hero, fighting against the evil dictatorship

 

New new: Rory sucks, is a bribe sucking flip flopper

 

Old:  Monahan is my hero, he's fighting the evil Sauron

 

New: Monahan sucks and has caved to save his job

 

New new: Monahan is the 3 dimensional rainmaker who will save the tour.