LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[betarhoalphadelta]

15 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Throw the majors into the discussion as well. Rory basically said players might skip unless the purses increase. 

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/rory-mcilroy-players-skip-majors-for-less-prize-money-memorial-pga-tour

 

Rory says a lot of things. Some of them silly. I put this in that category. 

 

Players whine about not getting paid for the Ryder Cup / President's Cup, but you don't see them (incl. Rory) turning down invitations, right? Heck, he even played in the Olympics for no purse after once turning down an opportunity to play for personal non-monetary reasons.

 

If anything, the players that should care least about not being in the majors are the LIV guys playing for massive purses (some of them who have already been given massive contracts), but they're all whining about not getting OWGR points that are basically meaningless for anything other than getting into the majors. 

 

Rory said that, and he's just plain wrong. 

[CDM]

16 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

 

 

You cant post this here. 

 

Having PGAT players agreeing that the OWGR is not valid, and there is NO way that could ever be the case because it is only defense they have right now...!   /sarcasm

[bcjim]

Rory is a random number generator with his comments.  He veers all over the highway from day to day.

 

And any player interested in inclusive rankings can simply look at data, tugr, etc and stop complaining about owgr. 

 

Another party, liv, could easily fix their format and immediately get owgr points. They are unwilling to make these changes.  So that is on them.   Additionally,  they would not get enough points anyway is my guess, to make much difference. 

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

8 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Rory is a random number generator with his comments.  He veers all over the highway from day to day.

 

And any player interested in inclusive rankings can simply look at data, tugr, etc and stop complaining about owgr. 

 

Another party, liv, could easily fix their format and immediately get owgr points. They are unwilling to make these changes.  So that is on them.   Additionally,  they would not get enough points anyway is my guess, to make much difference. 

 

 

Rory comments are as erratic as Tiger's driving 🤣

 

Edited March 6 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Cactus Jack]

2 hours ago, SnowbirdTom said:

That OWGR horse has been flogged repeatedly and poorly.  Someone should call the Animal Cruelty folks.  Thankfully, it'll survive and thrive.

 

I agree with you...but with more and more PGAT players, star players, coming out against OWGR and now PGAT friendly media like Golf Channel challenging the underlying assumptions, I think a change is likely coming. This is an entirely new conversation.  

[Shilgy]

53 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Rory is a random number generator with his comments.  He veers all over the highway from day to day.

 

And any player interested in inclusive rankings can simply look at data, tugr, etc and stop complaining about owgr. 

 

Another party, liv, could easily fix their format and immediately get owgr points. They are unwilling to make these changes.  So that is on them.   Additionally,  they would not get enough points anyway is my guess, to make much difference. 

 

 

I’m guessing that since they’ve dropped their wish to get rankings they will continue to whine about the unfairness of it all.  I just hope the majors continue as they have been of late. Rather than a set number of LIV player exemptions as Bryson has hoped for the majors should just give LIV exemptions that are clearly worthy…like Niemann.

[Seamus_McDuff]

Not sure I believe Rahm here,

 

"I'm going to be honest, I didn't know they were still trying to get world ranking points.”

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39664837/jon-rahm-latest-liv-take-aim-rankings-system

[grm24]

2 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

Not sure I believe Rahm here,

 

"I'm going to be honest, I didn't know they were still trying to get world ranking points.”

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39664837/jon-rahm-latest-liv-take-aim-rankings-system

I'm not buying it from Rahm. Since he signed he continually makes himself look worse with each and every passing comment he makes regarding any topic.

 

The one thing that the mercenary tour players are tops in the world at is continually whining about everything. How about you enjoy your money and show up at your contractually mandated appearances that you signed your life and fealty away for.

[ThinkingPlus]

4 minutes ago, grm24 said:

I'm not buying it from Rahm. Since he signed he continually makes himself look worse with each and every passing comment he makes regarding any topic.

 

The one thing that the mercenary tour players are tops in the world at is continually whining about everything. How about you enjoy your money and show up at your contractually mandated appearances that you signed your life and fealty away for.

One has the difficult task of deciding whether Jonny has been living in a vacuum or has one residing between his ears. Hmmmm...

[Titleist99]

32 minutes ago, grm24 said:

I'm not buying it from Rahm. Since he signed he continually makes himself look worse with each and every passing comment he makes regarding any topic.

 

The one thing that the mercenary tour players are tops in the world at is continually whining about everything. How about you enjoy your money and show up at your contractually mandated appearances that you signed your life and fealty away for.

Totally agree. I don't begrudge anyone that takes generational wealth but please just go away when you do accept it. Constantly whining and trashing the PGAT is not a good look.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

46 minutes ago, grm24 said:

I'm not buying it from Rahm. Since he signed he continually makes himself look worse with each and every passing comment he makes regarding any topic.

 

The one thing that the mercenary tour players are tops in the world at is continually whining about everything. How about you enjoy your money and show up at your contractually mandated appearances that you signed your life and fealty away for.

 I love every part of that, especially the bolded part at the end! 

Edited March 6 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

I'm not buying it from Rahm. Since he signed he continually makes himself look worse with each and every passing comment he makes regarding any topic.

 

The one thing that the mercenary tour players are tops in the world at is continually whining about everything. How about you enjoy your money and show up at your contractually mandated appearances that you signed your life and fealty away for.

 

I'm not following you on the Rahm comments. All he did today was reiterate what he said two years ago about the system being broken as it applies to the DPWT. He specifically said there's was nothing he could add as he doesn't follow the matter. Did he say something else that I missed? 

[notsohard]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Totally agree. I don't begrudge anyone that takes generational wealth but please just go away when you do accept it. Constantly whining and trashing the PGAT is not a good look.

"Trashing the pga"??..... aren't we talking about the OWGR?

[smashdn]

21 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I highly doubt that any player looks at team events like the Ryder or President's Cups (or LIV's team portion) the same way they look at individual accolades like major wins or even tournament wins. 

 

I think the gripe is that while it's an honor to participate in those team events, and while they really want to win, their Ryder Cup or President's Cup records aren't going to be remembered by the history books in the same hallowed tones as major wins. 

 

Along time back, I asked the question in many more words than this, is there really a chance that any current golfer has a shot at getting high enough on the majors list to leave a legacy?  (Legacy being the key phrase in that discussion.)  Rory has a shot at the career grand slam but he isn't sniffing Tom Watson (8) let alone Tiger or Jack.

 

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

19 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Along time back, I asked the question in many more words than this, is there really a chance that any current golfer has a shot at getting high enough on the majors list to leave a legacy?  (Legacy being the key phrase in that discussion.)  Rory has a shot at the career grand slam but he isn't sniffing Tom Watson (8) let alone Tiger or Jack.

 

 

Probably not.

 

But there's an enormous gulf between a golfer ending their career with one major win versus zero, in my opinion. And an even bigger gulf between a golfer with two (or more) major wins versus one, because at that point it's hard to argue it's a "fluke" win for a player just getting hot at the right time. 

 

When you're looking at a career with 4+ majors, you're considered one of the game's greats, if not anywhere near the same league as one of the game's GOATs. 

 

IMHO major wins are the most prestigious and important accolades in golf. And I think most in the game agree with that. They're not going to skip a major because the winner's share of the purse is "only" $1.5M. 

[Cactus Jack]

30 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Along time back, I asked the question in many more words than this, is there really a chance that any current golfer has a shot at getting high enough on the majors list to leave a legacy?  (Legacy being the key phrase in that discussion.)  Rory has a shot at the career grand slam but he isn't sniffing Tom Watson (8) let alone Tiger or Jack.

 

 

 

 

Brooks. He's been the most dominant Major winner since Tiger and has a goal to win 12. He said he should have more but gave away a few like last year's masters. 

[jdl]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Not questioning you but do tell?  Got a link to said claim?  Thanks

I'd have to go search for the source but my recollection is they sent a letter to Jay wanting to meet. It was a very vague note, not on any official letterhead or anything indicating who exactly was involved. So not too surprising there was no follow up if that is true.

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

One has the difficult task of deciding whether Jonny has been living in a vacuum or has one residing between his ears. Hmmmm...

 

If it's anything LIV in there it's set on "deep pile"!

[betarhoalphadelta]

12 minutes ago, jdl said:

I'd have to go search for the source but my recollection is they sent a letter to Jay wanting to meet. It was a very vague note, not on any official letterhead or anything indicating who exactly was involved. So not too surprising there was no follow up if that is true.

 

I'm not going to search for it, but I recall the same letter. If it's legit, it also didn't offer to sponsor PGAT events. It was entirely about setting up a global golf tour. 

 

So it's not like Jay turned down a meeting asking to sponsor--it was a meeting from a group talking about setting up a rival golf tour. 

 

Whether he should have taken the meeting is up for debate, but let's not pretend there was no context whatsoever what the meeting was about, and it was NOT offering sponsorship of existing events. 

[jdl]

The Open Championship giving LIV guys another potential path. 

 

 

[grm24]

3 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

I'm not following you on the Rahm comments. All he did today was reiterate what he said two years ago about the system being broken as it applies to the DPWT. He specifically said there's was nothing he could add as he doesn't follow the matter. Did he say something else that I missed? 

Rahm has done nothing but whine since he joined the mercenary tour. 

[Cactus Jack]

44 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I'm not going to search for it, but I recall the same letter. If it's legit, it also didn't offer to sponsor PGAT events. It was entirely about setting up a global golf tour. 

 

So it's not like Jay turned down a meeting asking to sponsor--it was a meeting from a group talking about setting up a rival golf tour. 

 

Whether he should have taken the meeting is up for debate, but let's not pretend there was no context whatsoever what the meeting was about, and it was NOT offering sponsorship of existing events. 

 

Pretty well documented, but Alan Shipnuck sums it up well. Worth noting, Jack Nicklaus, Rory, Phil, Norman, Jimmy Dunne all attempted to broker a meeting. Jay refused to even an introductory discussion. Additionally, he didn't discuss the matter with the full Board, or notify the players that a potential option was on the table. 

 

From the 2021 letter to Jay:

 

I have respect for the PGA Tour and we view this as an opportunity for a collaboration that would grow the game. We’d like to arrange a sit-down with you to discuss our approach in more detail and highlight how this could represent value for you, your members, partners and community. 

Yours sincerely, 

Majed al-Sorour

 

https://www.firepitcollective.com/p/liv-and-let-die

[Cactus Jack]

10 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Rahm has done nothing but whine since he joined the mercenary tour. 

 

For the record, here's the actual interview. Rahm is a standup guy with a consistent position, and certainly not one to whine. Check it out for yourself. 

 

 

[grm24]

48 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

For the record, here's the actual interview. Rahm is a standup guy with a consistent position, and certainly not one to whine. Check it out for yourself. 

No need to check it out. Rahm whines and complains about everything. Pre and post signing with the mercenary tour. Now that there is not going to be OWGR points for them the players should never be heard from again since things are so wonderful working for the PIF. 

[stinger_gc]

7 hours ago, CDM said:

 

You cant post this here. 

 

Having PGAT players agreeing that the OWGR is not valid, and there is NO way that could ever be the case because it is only defense they have right now...!   /sarcasm

The only purpose of the owgr is to figure out who’s qualified for the majors. You just need to be in the top 50 you’re in everything.
The majors could easily dissolve the OWGR tomorrow and say: top 30 from the fedex cup get in, top 5-10 from LIV money list get in, top 10 from DP World Tour money list get in, plus past major champs/winners from past PGAT season/any qualifiers and we wouldn’t even notice a difference. 
Also whoever came up with the format for LIV is the biggest idiot in golf.

[Dutch1008]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Along time back, I asked the question in many more words than this, is there really a chance that any current golfer has a shot at getting high enough on the majors list to leave a legacy?  (Legacy being the key phrase in that discussion.)  Rory has a shot at the career grand slam but he isn't sniffing Tom Watson (8) let alone Tiger or Jack.

 

What is your number for "legacy"? Is Watson's 8 your number or Does Phil's 6 qualify?

 

Phil won six after his 34th birthday. Obviously a phenomenal accomplishment but certainly in the realm of possible for Rory, Brooks, Spieth as they're all at or younger than Phil was when he started winning. Is it unrealistic to think Rahm can't win 6 more? That Scottie can't? Scottie has been better tee to green over the last two years than just about any human ever sans Tiger. If he figures out anything w/ the putter he could easily rack up some majors in bunches. 

 

I'd put a low probability on all of those guys but certainly possible. 

[widow-maker]

If the Majors want to give exemptions to LIV golfers they can figure out a way to do that on their own.  LIV doesn't adhere to OWGR criteria so that's not going to be a way for them to go.  So, now it's up to each individual event if they want to figure out a way to exempt some of their players.   Actually, both Opens already provide a path for them to qualify.  If they are truly top 50 players then qualifying shouldn't be a problem.

[Gregakin]

4 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Brooks. He's been the most dominant Major winner since Tiger and has a goal to win 12. He said he should have more but gave away a few like last year's masters. 

Jeez, what a dingle-weed. Get in the 'should have' line.  It starts behind Phil.

 

Disliking this joker more every time he opens his mouth.

[Noles]

5 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Brooks. He's been the most dominant Major winner since Tiger and has a goal to win 12. He said he should have more but gave away a few like last year's masters. 

Most pros should have had more.

[bekgolf]

15 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

LIV is living the Waterworld nightmare 

 

It’s when you spend insane amounts of money for the talent for an entertainment product and think you’re got something fantastic 

 

And it’s so bad that nobody watches and it’s universal roasted 

 

I wonder if they’ll ever “get it”

 

 

 

 

 

I raise you by one Heaven's Gate.