When do you take a swing change to the course?

[elsie451]

So I've decided to try Monte's no turn cast again.  I've only done 2 range sessions so far, and understandably I'm still having a hard time synching everything up and end up hitting a ton of bad shots. I happened to have a tee time this morning and decided to stick with the new swing. Needless to say it was an ugly round.

 

So what do other people do? Go all in and live with a bunch of bad rounds until the new swing comes around? Stick with the old swing on the course until the new swing is playable? Or might switching back and forth put you in no man's land and leave you with 2 bad swings?

[Saijin]

I spent 6 months owning my new back swing and I beat balls at the range till the range closes.

Then once I start "feeling" being able to pull it off without much trouble I take it to the course once and see what errors there are and back to the range until I feel it's time for the course again.

Then once I start getting it I "master" the backswing by playing the course every week minimum  so I can see the positive results which enforces my confidence.

 

and it took me an extra 2 months playing the course to really believe my new back swing.

 

Now I just rehearse the feel so I don't lose it.

 

Basically a lot of discipline, cussing out the club, throwing the club into the first flag at the range out of rage and patience. 😃

 

Granted I'm my own teacher and I develop my own drills that work for me. So it takes longer for me I'd think

[MelloYello]

Start playing with the new feel as soon as possible. 

 

Any swing change is going to be an evolution of your current swing. Changes should be small, manageable tweaks. 

 

Transition to the course as early as is reasonable. You want to train yourself to embrace the new feels as quickly as possible. 

 

If you have serious tournament golf in your immediate future a swing change wouldn't be in the cards anyway. As they often say in life, there's never going to be a "right time" so just do it. 

 

.

Edited August 10, 2022 by MelloYello

[chisag]

48 minutes ago, elsie451 said:

So I've decided to try Monte's no turn cast again.  I've only done 2 range sessions so far, and understandably I'm still having a hard time synching everything up and end up hitting a ton of bad shots. I happened to have a tee time this morning and decided to stick with the new swing. Needless to say it was an ugly round.

 

So what do other people do? Go all in and live with a bunch of bad rounds until the new swing comes around? Stick with the old swing on the course until the new swing is playable? Or might switching back and forth put you in no man's land and leave you with 2 bad swings?

... Different for every player but considering it took Tiger a full year to completely implement a swing change expecting over night success is a recipe for disappointment. How much you practice and play is also a big factor. I am a big believer in just playing golf without thinking when you are on the course. If you have to think of your new move it is probably best left at the range. And yes, even trying to just play elements of the new swing can creep in and leave you in no mans land but the is the price you pay to make a change. 

... All that said, I had students that took to a swing change almost immediately and were able to take it to the course. Usually this was when they had a major fault we corrected. 

[ThePaineTrain]

Picking up NTC and Broomforce this season, I've been following the advice in the broomforce videos to do a swing drill (so NTC cast A, broomforce 'tabletop', 'two justins', etc) 2-3 times in a row at the range, then hit 10-15 "regular" balls, and saw immediate success in some of the regular shots after. On the course, I'll just do a couple practice swings of one of the drills, then 1-2 full practice swings with the goal of making decent ground contact, then stepping up and firing away. I shoot in the high 90s - low 100s so all my rounds are ugly, so even with new misses introduced by the new changes, my rounds are no more or less ugly than they were before, just that the nice shots are nicer. (Except for the driver which I've been shanking 99% of the time at the range and the course, but it's starting to come back now).

 

If anything, having the new swing and some drills to use has at least replaced the 99 other swing thoughts I get into on the course, so at least I'm trying to execute the same thing every shot, vs making on-the-fly "repairs".

Edited August 10, 2022 by ThePaineTrain
Added additional info

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, elsie451 said:

So I've decided to try Monte's no turn cast again.  I've only done 2 range sessions so far, and understandably I'm still having a hard time synching everything up and end up hitting a ton of bad shots. I happened to have a tee time this morning and decided to stick with the new swing. Needless to say it was an ugly round.

 

So what do other people do? Go all in and live with a bunch of bad rounds until the new swing comes around? Stick with the old swing on the course until the new swing is playable? Or might switching back and forth put you in no man's land and leave you with 2 bad swings?

When you take something new to the course, it's more than likely going to be a testy round.  Change takes time and commitment, that's just the way it is... 

 

You either trust and commit to your instructor's advice, or you do what many people do, talk to stranger on DB's, get confused looking for the holly grail of easy change, then fail at change.  I call that getting in your own way.

[jc2]

I never saw any reason to have a work in progress swing along with another one.  I'm trying to get rid of the old one.  3 years ago I needed a change and did a 3 day lesson in the AM, play in the PM thing.  As much as I wanted to just play golf with the swing I knew I had to start testing the changes on course.  Was it horrific?  Yes.  I trusted that it was going to be for the best and just tried to enjoy it despite the results

[tatertot]

For me ... I usually get a thought on the 4th green and give it a go on the 5th tee.

[fronesis]

42 minutes ago, jc2 said:

I never saw any reason to have a work in progress swing along with another one.  I'm trying to get rid of the old one.

Exactly!

 

I’d even take it one step further: if you try to have two swings (your course swing, and the in-process driving range swing) you are never going to make any progress, because when you hit shots that *matter*, you’ll always be using your old swing, and thus continuing to ingrain it.

 

When I used to play competitive golf and would work on swing changes, it was never a question of whether I’d try the changes on the course – of course, I would. The question was always whether it would hold up under pressure, or would I revert to the old swing on big shots. Sometimes I would revert, but that just means continuing to focus on the new swing ALL the time – at the range and on the course.

[Warrior42111]

It's all about muscle memory and becoming comfortable with the changes so reverting back and forth seems like a recipe for disaster IMO.

 

FWIW I went from a 25-15 still trending down with a swing change from my teacher. It was a long haul. We would work on one or two maybe three items if all basic simple things max each lesson. Then I would have drills to practice, at home, on the range etc. and what the goal of what ball flight should be at each intermediate changes of the swing.

 

So I would practice etc. then when I thought I had, sent a few swing videos, and either would be told looks could come in for the next part, or keep working said drills, or let's fine another way for you to do what you're suppose to be etc. I know for a solid probable 4-6 weeks, seemed like an eternity I was playing a straight push, while learning to have my hands be less active. 

 

Point of all that is yes there's going to be bad rounds, times things feel horrible, but you have to keep working and push through it

[CasualLie]

The time to be bringing your swing change to the course is now, not at some magical moment on the range to tell you it's time.  If there was such a magical moment on the range, you will be humbled on the course in short order.  So just get it over with and start right away.  But you have to distill what you are working on to just one particular area.  NCT has a lot of areas, try to bring them all to the course and process while you are playing and you are cooked.

 

Here's the thing.  If you really believe in the process, then play it.  If you do not believe in it, then don't bother playing; otherwise crack a few beers as you play and make that the reason for being out there.  And I am talking about believing in the process, not the outcome at the course.  

 

 

[MountainKing]

If you're working on a change in the swing, why wouldn't that be the swing you take with you to practice and the course?  It seems like a recipe for failure to play with one swing and practice with another.  Take it the course and recognize there might be some struggles early on.  

[Socrates]

When I/we revamped my swing, I took the swing to the course after a few practice sessions.  I knew there would be some squirrelly shots and there was.  The key is to not give up and revert back to the old as that just causes more pain.

 

When I incorporated more of Monte's philosophy (some NTC but mostly hitting more club at less than 100%) there was some immediate success and some immediate failure.  Stick with it and it will speed up the process.  Initially I felt that I was decelerating through the shot, but I now feel like I can go at it 100% even though I know I'm hitting it with less speed (if that makes sense).  Still fine tuning my yardages and occasionally hit it right on the button, with decent speed and come up short because I've smoothed it out too much.  I can see the merit in it all though.

 

Rip off the band-aide as soon as possible and use the new swing.  At the end of the round evaluate and back to the practice tee.  Lather - Rinse - Repeat.

 

One tid-bit that Monte slipped into a thread was that the longer the club, the more you go at it 100%.  That helped a lot.

[phizzy30]

Been playing this great game on and off for over 30 years and have learned through trial and error that the best way do swing changes is to work on it at the range then slowly integrate it out on the course.  The biggest changes I've made over the years is to my set up and making my swing path more neutral whereas before I was 5*+ in to out. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by phizzy30

[dfeldss]

I've never really been able to differentiate the two myself. If i have a thought or something im working on, even if i tell myself to just play its going to be in the back of my mind. 

[Krt22]

It has less to do with when you take it to the course and more to do with with your mind set on the course. You need to go to the course and not care about score, hit multiple balls, etc.  Your focus is on the swing while on the course environment, not scoring.  During a money game, right before a tournament (or during one), during a golf trip, etc is not the time to work on it.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Krt22

[trilerian]

33 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

It has less to do with when you take it to the course and more to do with with your mind set on the course. You need to go to the course and not care about score, hit multiple balls, etc.  Your focus is on the swing while on the course environment, not scoring.  During a money game, right before a tournament (or doing one), during a golf trip, etc is not the time to work on it.

 

I'll second this.  Ultimately it is up to the individual.  But if you play just for fun and there is nothing on the line then why not take your change to the course.  If you are actually diligent in practicing new moves it is going to creep into your swing no matter what you do, so embrace it.  

[johnrobison]

Don't think of it as taking it to the course - it's more about how much of it follows you there over time. If you're really working on it at the practice range, doing the drills and putting in the work, you'll gradually see the changes making their way in and replacing the old moves without you trying to manipulate them into your swing. Again... if you're sincerely putting in the work on the range.

[northgolf]

If you trust  a change will be better for your swing, play it immediately.   The only reason for not taking a swing change on to the course is you don't trust it. That begs the question of why you are making a swing change you don't trust?

 

Yeah, here I go making another tautology that can only make me unpopular. 

[bcc624]

a

Edited August 13, 2022 by bcc624

[Forged4ever]

During a competitive round?

 

Under the gun?

 

NEVER!!

 

Otherwise, who cares🤷🏻‍♂️???

 

Do it whenever and in whatever manner that allows you to eventually integrate those swing changes so that they may thrive under the gun on the course. 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️
RP

Edited August 13, 2022 by Forged4ever

[Socrates]

10 hours ago, northgolf said:

If you trust  a change will be better for your swing, play it immediately.   The only reason for not taking a swing change on to the course is you don't trust it. That begs the question of why you are making a swing change you don't trust?

 

Yeah, here I go making another tautology that can only make me unpopular. 

"That's good advice!"

 

You have to trust it is the right thing to do.  Putting it into use correctly on the course is sometimes hard.  Golf is hard as soon as you put a scorecard in someone's hands.

[homerrunjesus]

Immediately if you believe it is the correct change. Why further ingrain that bad habit/incorrect move? 

If my friend asks me if he should quit cigarettes tomorrow, I would say why not right now. 

[HitSomeMissSome]

I agree! If you are in… dive in. This video will help you “prime” your change. 
 

 

[RichieHunt]

I think you need to take it to the course very soon.  Work on the changes on the range a couple of times and then take it to the course.  Best to play by yourself when you take it to the course.  Play your original ball, but if you hit a bad shot, hit another one with the same focus you had.  But play your original ball for the rest of the hole.

 

The main goal is to stick with what you've been working on for every shot.  It's not so much about score, but getting adjusted to different lies, wind conditions, etc.  Those changes while continuing to focus on the new mechanics will accelerate your learning. 

 

But then you need to still get back on the range and continue your practice.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[ChipDriver]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:18 PM, elsie451 said:

So I've decided to try Monte's no turn cast again.  I've only done 2 range sessions so far, and understandably I'm still having a hard time synching everything up and end up hitting a ton of bad shots. I happened to have a tee time this morning and decided to stick with the new swing. Needless to say it was an ugly round.

 

So what do other people do? Go all in and live with a bunch of bad rounds until the new swing comes around? Stick with the old swing on the course until the new swing is playable? Or might switching back and forth put you in no man's land and leave you with 2 bad swings?

 

IMO I would offer another alternative - learn to play at 50-75% speed, just in case your full swing isn't quite ready for prime time!  

 

How I do it:  

 

For me critical parts of any lesson are:  1) Learn the REAL motions/positions that lead to a better swing; and then 2) develop a FEEL that replicates REAL; 3) apply that to SLOWER IMPACT (50-60% effort...).  

 

If you accomplish those things at your lesson - then you can practice #1 and #2 almost anywhere, and do it with or without a club.   At the range - take those feels/reals and try to hit balls with 1) zero-effort (like In Bee Park looks like...); 2) build up to 25% effort; and then 3) with 50% effort.   Focus on solid impact (you'll be surprised how far a well struck ball flies with almost zero effort).   BE PATIENT and don't rush the full swing.  Try to do 5-10 slower swings to every 1 regular swing.   You'll get there soon enough.  

 

On the golf course - go ahead and swing normally - and if it goes sideways - just drop down to "50% swing".   You'll play better and feel better since you'll hit it more solidly, more often.

Edited August 22, 2022 by ChipDriver

[Simpsonia]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:34 AM, Krt22 said:

It has less to do with when you take it to the course and more to do with with your mind set on the course. You need to go to the course and not care about score, hit multiple balls, etc.  Your focus is on the swing while on the course environment, not scoring.  During a money game, right before a tournament (or during one), during a golf trip, etc is not the time to work on it.

 

Exactly this. I'm working on some major swing changes right now, and had been holding off on actually getting out and playing. Some buddies have been trying to get me out and I finally relented. Went out, didn't swing a club higher than my 7-iron, didn't keep score, didn't get mad when I chunked it 100 yards. It was amazing, no stress, definitely figured a few things out about integrating some of the new thoughts and patterns that didn't happen at all when practicing into my impact screen. I'm definitely going to make it a point to fit in more of these no-stress rounds to help integrate the new patterns. 

[596]

I take changes to the course after 1 maybe 2 range days.  But I don't play tournament golf and only a money game on Fridays.  I play 3 other days a week and don't keep a score on those days.  Those days are practice days on the course.  With recent swing changes I've played to my handicap the last 2 Fridays, after not keeping score for 2 weeks. Changes aren't there yet but my scores are good. 

[Krt22]

6 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Exactly this. I'm working on some major swing changes right now, and had been holding off on actually getting out and playing. Some buddies have been trying to get me out and I finally relented. Went out, didn't swing a club higher than my 7-iron, didn't keep score, didn't get mad when I chunked it 100 yards. It was amazing, no stress, definitely figured a few things out about integrating some of the new thoughts and patterns that didn't happen at all when practicing into my impact screen. I'm definitely going to make it a point to fit in more of these no-stress rounds to help integrate the new patterns. 

This is one of the nice parts of being at a club, it's easy enough to hop onto a tee time and play largely care free or hop on for a quick 9 holes after a range session. I think doing this is a bit tougher to swallow for some when you are "paying" up front for it.

[larrybud]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:18 PM, elsie451 said:

So I've decided to try Monte's no turn cast again.  I've only done 2 range sessions so far, and understandably I'm still having a hard time synching everything up and end up hitting a ton of bad shots. I happened to have a tee time this morning and decided to stick with the new swing. Needless to say it was an ugly round.

 

So what do other people do? Go all in and live with a bunch of bad rounds until the new swing comes around? Stick with the old swing on the course until the new swing is playable? Or might switching back and forth put you in no man's land and leave you with 2 bad swings?

Sorry, but there isn't a "switch", as in "I'm going to swing the new way today".

 

You do drills so whatever changes your making slowly creeps into being a "normal" feeling. Everything you're doing is affecting your on course swing whether you realize it or not.