Morikawa Back in SIM

[Red4282]

No surprise here, OG SIM is TM’s 🐐, and stealth is 🗑️

Edited March 10, 2023 by Red4282

[Pomps]

9 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

No surprise here, OG SIM is TM’s 🐐, and stealth is 🗑️

I hit 170 ball speed more consistently with SIM than any other driver, but I’ll take 2016 TI M2 all day with best combo of almost sim ball speed but also better launch conditions than with sim.

[grm24]

6 hours ago, BagofToast said:

Rory using SIM driver or 3w? He’s used the 3w recently but can’t imagine he went back to the driver. 

He didn't. Still using Stealth2+ driver at The Players. At least for the 1st round.

 

 

 

[Red4282]

24 minutes ago, Pomps said:

I hit 170 ball speed more consistently with SIM than any other driver, but I’ll take 2016 TI M2 all day with best combo of almost sim ball speed but also better launch conditions than with sim.

But its uglier

[philly2kuk]

1 hour ago, drbonesvt said:

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/03/09/players-championship-rory-mcilroy-searching-ideal-driver/

 

Look, I wish I could use my driver from last year, but I can’t just because [if] you use a driver for so long, and it starts to get a little too … basically it just wouldn’t pass the test.”

 

Last season McIlroy used a TaylorMade Stealth Plus+ driver and the test he referred to measures Characteristic Time (CT), which is how long the ball stays in contact with the club face. The longer the time, measured in microseconds, the more significant the trampoline-like effect of the hitting area and the faster the ball comes off it.

 

 

 

 

This. He wants his old stealth. No mention of the Sim for mcilroy.

[RaptorGolf]

They both played their best years with the SIM, it'll be interesting to see what happens. Rory seemed quite frustrated with his Stealth2 today, more than I've ever seen him on a piece of equipment. To me, it seemed he was reluctant to change out from the OG Stealth to begin with this year.

 

$ talks but Masters to Rory talks even louder, so it'll be interesting to see what he eventually ends up doing by then.

 

[RaptorGolf]

So the price of my OG Stealth just went up lol

I will also provide a service where I put anyone's driver on a robot and it will pound balls until the face is significantly hotter!

[95124hacker]

As a youth baseball coach before the USA Baseball dead bat conforming era, I saw how hot the composite bats like the Easton Mako got over time & predicted on this site the same would happen with the Stealth faces too. The resin between carbon layers break down & become very flexible (trampoline effect) until eventually they fail.

[madaboutgolf]

most put the latest driver in their bags and a few quietly go the old favourites  

[JungleJimbo]

6 hours ago, Pomps said:

Looks like Collin is back in his SIM that he won the the PGA and Open with (maybe not the exact same head, who knows, but it's a SIM). He hasn't been bad off the tee, top 15ish strokes gained off the tee. Wonder what he's not liking with Stealth+. Not a bad day with SIM...

 

 

[MattyO1984]

TM wishing that Collin and Rory had been a little more stealthy in their approaches to the current product 🤫

[mat562]

A bit of Phil Mickelson's black spray paint would sort things out.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by mat562

[mosesgolf]

Imo original Sim and 2016 M2 are best TM has ever made.  

[Red4282]

4 hours ago, 95124hacker said:

As a youth baseball coach before the USA Baseball dead bat conforming era, I saw how hot the composite bats like the Easton Mako got over time & predicted on this site the same would happen with the Stealth faces too. The resin between carbon layers break down & become very flexible (trampoline effect) until eventually they fail.

Traditional metal faces do this as well, not sure if its as much but they do get hotter and hotter until they fail.

[Carson33]

I read a transcript of Rory’s interview question about this, and it seemed he was about to say that he preferred his older driver but had to change to to the new one because of his sponsorship.  He caught himself short of saying it and did not quite get it out.

 

I know it is because of the money, but I do not see why these guys handcuff themselves to an OEM like this. Either be a free agent or have a clause that states your 14 club deal allows you to play anything within the brand; not just the newest.

[ChaosTheory]

I guess there is a question, did they go back to the SIM because they (the players) need more time to test and find their next S2 head that they love?  Or are they finding it lacking as compared to the SIM? 

 

You would think they would have more than one S2 head already vetted and ready to go into the rotation if need be.  I realize that the backup is the backup for a reason, it did not win the shootout.  Anyway, it is interesting.

[Haleone]

As the long drive guys say you can always feel when your drivers about to brake because it has never felt faster. Can’t attest to the driver but the month I caved in my tsi2 3 woods face was the fastest most effortless ball speeds I’ve ever seen.

 

Drew Cooper was recently talking about how the tolerances of the Cobra LD head are built closer too these failure threshold to get that added ball speed but unfortunately means that head shouldn’t be practiced with because the number of balls you can hit are limited.

 

I believe Johnny Wonder also said something recently along the lines of the pros loving to hit the test models because they are so much hotter than what they get to play. Once those models are in production they make them ones with thicker faces. 
 

There’s probably a lot of people out there with drivers that would fail the PGA’s testing 😅 

[iNeedMoreGolf]

24 minutes ago, Carson33 said:

I read a transcript of Rory’s interview question about this, and it seemed he was about to say that he preferred his older driver but had to change to to the new one because of his sponsorship.  He caught himself short of saying it and did not quite get it out.

 

I know it is because of the money, but I do not see why these guys handcuff themselves to an OEM like this. Either be a free agent or have a clause that states your 14 club deal allows you to play anything within the brand; not just the newest.

Agreed. They make enough once established just be free.

[mat562]

9 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

The conspiracy generating side of my mind is also wondering if the mfrs already know this would be the case and are ultimately putting what might eventually becoming "non conforming" drivers into the marketplace for us amateur golfers knowing that they will actually perform better as they age. "Why is Bob out driving all of us now even though his driver is 4 years old????" 

 

For God's sake, man. At this rate people will stop believing I hit it 350 through skill and physical conditioning alone...

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by mat562

[lazyjc4]

Taylormade can't build Rory an exact copy of his original Stealth?

[BagofToast]

3 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

Not sure what year they think it is lol. 

[Aaronwilson_95]

15 minutes ago, BagofToast said:

Not sure what year they think it is lol. 

3 years lol. Original sim came out right before Covid  on a public release so to tour players they had it in 2019 which would be 4 

[Superscroll]

9 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

Rory basically confirmed what I've been wondering since the very first day this new generation of carbon faced drivers came out - that they can get "hotter" as they break in and more used.

 

As mentioned above, this was definitely a thing in youth baseball a decade or more back with composite bats and all the services out there offering to accelerate the break-in period via "rolling" or shaving. Sounds like it was/is a thing in adult softball, too, though unlike baseball, I have no experience there.

 

I wonder if there will ultimately be a phase where using an older composite faced driver will be looked at suspiciously even when there is no testing going on.  

 

The conspiracy generating side of my mind is also wondering if the mfrs already know this would be the case and are ultimately putting what might eventually becoming "non conforming" drivers into the marketplace for us amateur golfers knowing that they will actually perform better as they age. "Why is Bob out driving all of us now even though his driver is 4 years old????"  (Haha - I don't personally care about this, in all honesty, but it is an amusing line of thought...)

 

 

Remember this very well.  The orange mako bats were hot when my son was playing 11 and 12u.  The bats got crazy hot as the plastic broke down and the trampoline effect was flat out dangerous.  Then they would die suddenly.  It wasn't uncommon to buy two or three bats at a time to get through a season and at one point certain bats were going for big bucks on ebay.  I remember a home run derby at a big tournament won by a little twig of a kid whose bat had so much use (and likely the rolling mentioned above) that the entire paint coating was gone.  Literally looked like a wiffle ball bat.  

 

It took some time but eventually certain bats were outlawed from tournaments and for little league the entire bat requirement was changed to what was known as bbcore (essentially performance similar to wood bats).  The issue in baseball was pitcher safety particularly at those young ages with a 50' mound.  

[Superscroll]

The relevance to golf would be the same issue of conforming for competition and for non competition environments you'd have a huge 'i'm the man' effect when an average golfer inexplicably picks up major yardage.  Worth noting in baseball the bats caused two problems-  1 was kids thinking they were much better than they really were and 2 was the bats became worthless in relatively short time when plastic broke down too far.   

[luke1333]

The question is why can't he go back to his old stealth from last year? Will it not meet COR regulations now? Did the face get too hot or did it break/crack? Curious to see if we see any change at Players today or this week or another week soon. Not a good look for all parties but still surprised he changed drives just to keep up with Tiger

[csiachos]

Guys, the pros find a driver that they like and know exactly what it is going to do, and like to stick with it.  It doesn't mean it's better than the new or the new is better than the old.  It means the pros like the consistency of what they know.  I saw Adam Scott hitting 3 woods at Augusta with a fairway wood and you literally could have thrown a blanket over his 10 shots that I watched. Was that wood better than the newer Titleist?  No, but he liked it because it was familiar and he could count on it.  Same goes for driver and other clubs.  

[AThompson_3]

11 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

Rory basically confirmed what I've been wondering since the very first day this new generation of carbon faced drivers came out - that they can get "hotter" as they break in and more used.

 

As mentioned above, this was definitely a thing in youth baseball a decade or more back with composite bats and all the services out there offering to accelerate the break-in period via "rolling" or shaving. Sounds like it was/is a thing in adult softball, too, though unlike baseball, I have no experience there.

 

I wonder if there will ultimately be a phase where using an older composite faced driver will be looked at suspiciously even when there is no testing going on.  

 

The conspiracy generating side of my mind is also wondering if the mfrs already know this would be the case and are ultimately putting what might eventually becoming "non conforming" drivers into the marketplace for us amateur golfers knowing that they will actually perform better as they age. "Why is Bob out driving all of us now even though his driver is 4 years old????"  (Haha - I don't personally care about this, in all honesty, but it is an amusing line of thought...)

Honestly this is such a great point and something I’ve never even thought of. Those composite baseball bats back 10-15 years after about 500 swings or so were unbelievably hot. Never even thought about that possibility with the carbon faced drivers. Very interesting insight. 

[dfeldss]

11 hours ago, CLEVELAND59 said:

Bingo.  The same material that comprises the face material of the stealth and stealth 2 is also used in composite baseball bats in amateur baseball.  There are people in that sport that specialize in "rolling" or compressing the bat barrel from the mfg to increase COR.  It's commonplace.  Sounds like the same thing happens with continued use of the Stealth driver and if the PGA was testing at Riv, then they must be on to it too.

 

Funnily enough, the Easton Stealth Composite was one of the hottest bats back in my baseball playing days. Those things were rocket launchers 

 

Must be a Stealth thing

[JourneyToBreak80]

6 hours ago, madaboutgolf said:

most put the latest driver in their bags and a few quietly go the old favourites  

This is why I like free agent bags so much. No pressure to market and game this years latest releases, you see them playing what they really feel works best. 

[Wardonation]

13 minutes ago, dfeldss said:

 

Funnily enough, the Easton Stealth Composite was one of the hottest bats back in my baseball playing days. Those things were rocket launchers 

 

Must be a Stealth thing

I am so old that the bat in the day was the "green Easton" and in little league it was the "Big Barrel"...