Ball roll-back

[klebs01]

Heard there is a big announcement coming tomorrow and it may involve rolling the ball back. 
 

hoping for the best and a 10% roll-back and no bifurcation. Bonus if driver size is rolled back to 275-300cc. 

[Schulzmc]

The best possible would be a ball roll back that only comes into play at higher swing speeds. Guys that hit it 240-250 off the tee see minimal reduction (a few yards) but the higher the swing speed the more dramatic the effect. 

[Mike412]

Would love to see ball roll back. I actually believe course length is part of the slow play problem on tour everyone is discussing right now.

 

I know we, me included, like the aspect of golf that pros and amateurs playing by the same rules with effectively the same equipment. But it’s getting to the point where I think it would be a good idea to have different ball attributes for pros and ams.

[Mike412]

56 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

Heard there is a big announcement coming tomorrow and it may involve rolling the ball back. 
 

hoping for the best and a 10% roll-back and no bifurcation. Bonus if driver size is rolled back to 275-300cc. 

Just out of curiosity, is this in the news or a personal source? I can’t find anything about it.

[klebs01]

16 minutes ago, Mike412 said:

Just out of curiosity, is this in the news or a personal source? I can’t find anything about it.

it’s a topic on another forum. 

[RCGA]

1 hour ago, Schulzmc said:

The best possible would be a ball roll back that only comes into play at higher swing speeds. Guys that hit it 240-250 off the tee see minimal reduction (a few yards) but the higher the swing speed the more dramatic the effect. 

 

Hate this idea. Swing speed is a skill and if you're going to magnify the effects among higher SS players it makes the game worse. 

[Zslayton]

No no no. Not a fan of this. I’m a former college golfer and I see no point. Open to discuss further. 

[Abh159]

Have to say I don't like this one bit either. It won't be as simple as just having a ball that goes 10, 15, or 20 yards less. Changing the ball characteristics will change spin, launch angles, how it reacts in the wind, and a ton of other factors. 

 

So now you have an amateur who qualifies for the US Open, but he has to learn to play with a totally new ball before the tournament... Or you have college players who graduate and want to take a shot at playing professionally and now they have to learn to play with a new ball...

 

If you want to reign in distance (and I still don't believe that needs to happen) then you start with equipment standards first and make it the standard for everyone (similar to the groove changes a few years back).

 

 

[Avidswampthing66]

IMO it's gotten out of hand and will continue like a runaway train until par 5's become short par 4's.   I love the speed and pure athletic motion we've seen the last 5 years.  It's fun to watch a skill set like that.  But, couple that with advancing technology and imagine the game in 10 years.   It'll be interesting for sure.

[Mike412]

2 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

The best possible would be a ball roll back that only comes into play at higher swing speeds. Guys that hit it 240-250 off the tee see minimal reduction (a few yards) but the higher the swing speed the more dramatic the effect. 

 

50 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

Hate this idea. Swing speed is a skill and if you're going to magnify the effects among higher SS players it makes the game worse. 

I agree, you can’t take away an athlete advantage among his fellow competitors.

 

31 minutes ago, Zslayton said:

No no no. Not a fan of this. I’m a former college golfer and I see no point. Open to discuss further. 

 

What are the reasons you’re against it?

 

23 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

Have to say I don't like this one bit either. It won't be as simple as just having a ball that goes 10, 15, or 20 yards less. Changing the ball characteristics will change spin, launch angles, how it reacts in the wind, and a ton of other factors. 

 

So now you have an amateur who qualifies for the US Open, but he has to learn to play with a totally new ball before the tournament... Or you have college players who graduate and want to take a shot at playing professionally and now they have to learn to play with a new ball...

 

If you want to reign in distance (and I still don't believe that needs to happen) then you start with equipment standards first and make it the standard for everyone (similar to the groove changes a few years back).

 

 

 
I don’t claim to know for sure but I’d bet with current technology they can dial back distance without affecting other characteristics too much. It’s my understanding that different components are responsible for each one.

 

As far as changing balls as a player goes through the ranks, I would imagine every college and professional tournament would adopt the change. If they did it wouldn’t be a very big issue. And that’s only if they make it different for professionals and amateurs.

 

I’m not sure at this point how there is an argument that distance isn’t becoming a problem. Courses are running out of real estate. PGAT courses are having to lengthen holes in ways it was never designed to the point players are teeing off crossing other players on other holes. Look at the extension ANGC had to do. Idk the answer but it is most definitely a problem. While distance advantages shouldn’t be taken away from players that have more speed than others it can’t be everything. And it’s going in a direction where most players will be hitting a drive and a chip on most par 4’s if it isn’t addressed.

[AdamMH]

Bring back Balata! LOL

[Hawkeye77]

Is nobody reading the actual reports?

 

It is supposed to be a discussion document and maybe changes will be implemented over several years and likely not for at least three years. 

[ChipStrokes]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Is nobody reading the actual reports?

 

It is supposed to be a discussion document and maybe changes will be implemented over several years and likely not for at least three years. 

how dare you bring facts and reason into this discussion? have you forgotten where you are?!

[Mike412]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Is nobody reading the actual reports?

 

It is supposed to be a discussion document and maybe changes will be implemented over several years and likely not for at least three years. 

 

Link?

 

I tried to find something but the only thing I could find was behind a pay wall. Other than that this is all I’ve seen on it. But it’s been a few hours since I looked. But even still I would think it’s okay to discuss the topic….

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Mike412

[caniac6]

I had shoulder surgery in November, and I have lost a lot of swing speed and distance. I don’t need a bunch of suits taking more distance from me.

[hackeraz]

Bifurcation is absolutely terrible and one of the major reasons I'm definitely not on board. 

[Klubster]

Age has been steadily decreasing my distance.

[Schulzmc]

Regarding the 

2 hours ago, Abh159 said:

So now you have an amateur who qualifies for the US Open, but he has to learn to play with a totally new ball before the tournament... Or you have college players who graduate and want to take a shot at playing professionally and now they have to learn to play with a new ball...

You mean like college baseball players that have to adapt to no aluminum bats to play professional baseball?

[ChipStrokes]

12 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

Regarding the 

You mean like college baseball players that have to adapt to no aluminum bats to play professional baseball?

any decent college baseball player has been using a wood bat for years by the time their name gets called in the draft. 

 

most competitive summer leagues are wood bat only, and they almost all practice exclusively with wood. 

[PureDivots]

Messing with the ball is a recipe for disaster in my opinon at all levels of the game. I think we are seeing the limit of what useful distance will be in tour right now. Maybe not the best example but the one that most people will know of. Bryson did all the speed training and everything and then rolled it back a-little because it wasn't helpful to a certain point. 

 

In my opinon the best way to curb distance is to put a loft limit of say 9* on drivers. If you want to kill spin with your higher swing speed then you'll need a less forgiving driver more forward CG driver. Most average joes aren't sub 9* in loft so it doesn't mean you are doing anything there. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by PureDivots

[TheDominator273]

30 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

any decent college baseball player has been using a wood bat for years by the time their name gets called in the draft. 

 

most competitive summer leagues are wood bat only, and they almost all practice exclusively with wood. 

Not to mention the BBCOR bats are made to be extremely similar in performance to wooden bats

[LeoLeo99]

https://golf.com/gear/golf-balls/usga-rollback-bifurcation-announcement/

 

Bifurcation looming.  A model local rule for elite players forcing them to use the "dead" ball.  

[Hawkeye77]

13 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

https://golf.com/gear/golf-balls/usga-rollback-bifurcation-announcement/

 

Bifurcation looming.  A model local rule for elite players forcing them to use the "dead" ball.  

Maybe. Long way to go the next 3 years - definitely, if there is buy in.

 

Lot more detail in that article but still just a discussion report, but we’ll see tomorrow. The one I found was in The Telegraph but don’t have the link handy. 

[Pretzel]

Not one person has provided a single logical argument in favor of rolling back the ball or equipment, or even a cohesive reasoning as to why hitting the golf ball a long distance is bad if it occurs under equipment legal per the rules.

 

Golfers today hit the ball further than golfers in the past. This is true. Hitting the ball further also allows golfers to score better, on average. This is also true.

 

Neither of those is a bad thing. The only arguments I've heard thus far revolve around courses being "obsolete" because they're too short and conservation/cost concerns associated with excessively long courses. Beyond the fact that those arguments are false in their base premise (Merion has produced some of the most difficult US Open's in recent memory despite being the shortest), they're also wrong in that the majority of courses are never intended for pros to play on in the first place. You can make short courses challenging, but not all courses have to be tremendously hard because golf itself is already quite difficult for the average player.

 

Drives being longer and scores being lower isn't a bad thing, unless you're somebody who either hates good golf or (more likely) doesn't like the people playing the good golf as much as they liked their favorites from the past. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Pretzel

[DaveLeeNC]

11 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Not one person has provided a single logical argument in favor of rolling back the ball or equipment, or even a cohesive reasoning as to why hitting the golf ball a long distance is bad if it occurs under equipment legal per the rules.

 

Golfers today hit the ball further than golfers in the past. This is true. Hitting the ball further also allows golfers to score better, on average. This is also true.

 

Neither of those is a bad thing. The only arguments I've heard thus far revolve around courses being "obsolete" because they're too short and conservation/cost concerns associated with excessively long courses. Beyond the fact that those arguments are false in their base premise (Merion has produced some of the most difficult US Open's in recent memory despite being the shortest), they're also wrong in that the majority of courses are never intended for pros to play on in the first place. You can make short courses challenging, but not all courses have to be tremendously hard because golf itself is already quite difficult for the average player.

 

Drives being longer and scores being lower isn't a bad thing, unless you're somebody who either hates good golf or (more likely) doesn't like the people playing the good golf as much as they liked their favorites from the past. 

 

Merion may not be an example of this, but there are many holes on championship courses that become very different holes at some distance off the tee (about where the longest hitters hit the ball these days). It most often revolves around being able to take a line on a hole that was never considered/intended when the course was designed. Formerly interesting holes become a big drive and a wedge (no longer interesting). 

 

dave

[rogolf]

Here's a scorecard for a course in Japan from about 20 years ago.  Maybe the future?

Edited March 14, 2023 by rogolf

[dugue4]

1 hour ago, TheDominator273 said:

Not to mention the BBCOR bats are made to be extremely similar in performance to wooden bats

Note even close to wood

 

BBCOR is less pop than before, but its nowhere near wood.

Edited March 14, 2023 by dugue4

[nova6868]

2 hours ago, PureDivots said:

In my opinon the best way to curb distance is to put a loft limit of say 9* on drivers. If you want to kill spin with your higher swing speed then you'll need a less forgiving driver more forward CG driver. Most average joes aren't sub 9* in loft so it doesn't mean you are doing anything there. 

 

That's an interesting idea, wonder if it would work. I like the idea of capping either the drivers or the ball so there are gains to be made but diminishing returns chasing distance past a certain point. 

 

Don't really want to "dial back" though. Also I hate the idea of bifurcation, just don't like the idea that pros are playing a completely different ball than 99.9% of regular golfers. 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by nova6868

[RCGA]

Putting a limit on driver loft wont accomplish anything. A couple hours working on a new angle of attack will solve that. Make the limit 15* and you'll still have people hitting it just as far. 

[jvincent]

I've posted this many times before, but what they should have done is to not only update the launch conditions to be more representative of the modern golfer but at the same time INCREASE the total distance by a nominal amount, say 10 yards.

 

That way they could say that they are not reducing the distance of the ball when in reality they are for the bit hitters because the current test conditions are so far away from optimal launch conditions that the specified max distance (320 yards) is essentially meaningless.