USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition

[Barfolomew]

So have they done experiments with a shorter ball yet before announcing? 

 

It could benefit bombers even more then they realize..... bombers by nature can turn up the gas a little and just hit harder to get that 20 yards back where as shorter guys usually cant or they wouldn't be short hitters

 

Now bombers could go from wedge to middle irons BUT short knockers might go from mid irons to long irons and that a huge advantage for bombers

[munichop]

32 minutes ago, kasting333 said:

How? 

Through the conditions of competition. That is how this ball issue will be addressed.  

The one ball rule, grooves, etc are done through that rule.  Not to mention the differences in green speeds, fairway heights, bunkers... The courses those guys play have a lot of differences from my mens club events.  I can switch to a different ball every hole if I want.  Plus I doubt they worry much about fairway fliers because the grass hasn't been mowed recently.  Believe me when I say muni bunkers are real hazards not the consistent stuff the pros see.  I believe I can still play pre 2010 grooves until next year if I want.   

I agree with a lot of comments that the golf ball engineers and equipment makers will adjust and the rule change will have little effect the way the ruling bodies want.  This happened with the grooves.  Now pros switch wedges every 2 weeks instead of 2 months.  They still spin the ball  in ways I never could.  Part of that is skill, part is I cannot afford a new wedge every 2 weeks.

But golf has seen this before. There once was competition which allowed 2 different diameter golf balls until it didn't.  Actually I guess you can still use an oversize supersoft if you want...

[Christen_The_Sloop]

20 hours ago, bazinky said:

Best point I've seem against this idea is that bifurcation may mean that amatuers will be driving the ball as far or farther than pros. If that occurs, I think it will seriously hurt the marketability of the sport. 

This right here. I don't know if it's mentioned yet. But, they say it will have no impact on the amateur sport. However, part of the appeal of golf is that you can hit the same shot a pro plays on occasion. After the rule changes, they are on a different level. The game becomes forever different. One is less, one more. If it does change, I play the pro ball. My struggle has never been for distance.

 

It's a stupid short-sighted solution. It ought to have no trouble getting approval from the USGA.

[FriedEgg]

I say bring back the Brassie, Spoon, Mashie and Niblick

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

They will no longer have the #1 ball on Tour.  I agree with them but eventually they'll make the special ball.

I can see a scenario where all the ball makers band together and tell the USGA to shove it. Unless the tour is going to provide money for the development, testing, manufacturing of these special balls, there is really no incentive to make a special ball

[Dutch1008]

5 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

They will no longer have the #1 ball on Tour.  I agree with them but eventually they'll make the special ball.

Of course they will make a special ball. They won't concede that space to TaylorMade or Callaway. 

 

They don't even need to change their marketing. Titleist doesn't really push the distance story w/ the ProV1. Their ads are centered around the idea that tour players trust Titleist because the ball does exactly what the player expects it to do. They sell quality and consistency far more than distance.   

[Double Mocha Man]

5 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I can see a scenario where all the ball makers band together and tell the USGA to shove it. Unless the tour is going to provide money for the development, testing, manufacturing of these special balls, there is really no incentive to make a special ball

"Collusion" is not a good word in the halls of Congress.

[Obee]

4 hours ago, gvogel said:

Golf - the only game I know of where I could hit the ball farther at age 60 than at 30.  And I was a 5 handicap at age 30.

 

100% this.

[Slider99]

Will be an interesting golf war when the PGA tour adopts the local rule and LIV does not.  Can already imagine LIVs marketing 

[kasting333]

7 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I can see a scenario where all the ball makers band together and tell the USGA to shove it. Unless the tour is going to provide money for the development, testing, manufacturing of these special balls, there is really no incentive to make a special ball

Also, LIV’s existence makes a massive rule change like this even more difficult. 

[kasting333]

Just now, Slider99 said:

Will be an interesting golf war when the PGA tour adopts the local rule and LIV does not.  Can already imagine LIVs marketing 

Just further proof of collusion. 

[Krt22]

Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

"Collusion" is not a good word in the halls of Congress.

Colluding to cheat consumers, suppress worker wages, etc is an issue. This is completely different, the ball makers would essentially be forced to make a ball that is completely unprofitable due to some silly over-reaching decisions by a sports governing body. There is no law or regulatory policy that would be even remotely tested if they so choose to mutually agree not to make such a ball.

[sui generis]

11 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

the ball makers band together and tell the USGA to shove it

 

They have had a seat at the table all along and will comply and profit from the change. 

[Dave22]

For selfish reasons, I hope they do not have two different balls for pros vs everyone else. 
 

The reason we post is because we all have a passion for golf, love playing and when we can’t, we can somehow relate to the game we watch on TV and see amazing courses in prime condition.
 

Hacker or very good amateur, you have a shot or two (or chip/putt) that worked out just like the guy on the weekend and we can relate to how hard some of those shots they pull off are. I will likely never play many of those courses but at I can imagine some of my shots on that course. Won’t happen when they are using a ball that limits performance. 
 

Those courses where bunkers are out of play can be bottlenecked with long rough for a few weeks to put decision making and risk/reward back into the course. 

 

I still hit it as long as many pros (same as all on WRX!!) and I enjoy comparing numbers. I cannot ever score or be as consistent as them but I can relate to distances and shots. I also play all 4 tees at my course and enjoy them all as you still need to get up and down to score. Arguments that courses are too short are only that way because the pros are so good. 
 

Be interesting to keep seeing the comments from both sides. 

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, Slider99 said:

Will be an interesting golf war when the PGA tour adopts the local rule and LIV does not.  Can already imagine LIVs marketing 

 

I don't see the PGA Tour going with this one.  Ultimately it will be up to the players and they weren't too happy about it.  YJS (paraphrasing here) said if the rule was implemented for any event he would need to go through all woods, irons, and even the putter to figure out what the ball would do and what tweaks would be needed.

[sui generis]

2 minutes ago, kasting333 said:

LIV’s existence makes a massive rule change like this even more difficult. 

 

No one cares about LIV . . . they won't be a factor in anything going forward.

[Golfnutgalen]

It's interesting that driving accuracy peaked in 1999 at 69% (Tour avg) and dropped to 65% in 2003 as a result of longer drives, not necessarily more crooked ones if we go by dispersion. It's been hovering around 60% this decade.

[Krt22]

Just now, sui generis said:

 

They have had a seat at the table all along and will comply and profit from the change. 

Titleist has already spoken out against it. If there was profit to be made from it, they would 100% be on board IMHO given they are the largest ball maker. The fact that they aren't tells me it will be a losing venture on their side. 

[Dutch1008]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

Colluding to cheat consumers, suppress worker wages, etc is an issue. This is completely different, the ball makers would essentially be forced to make a ball that is completely unprofitable due to some silly over-reaching decisions by a sports governing body. There is no law or regulatory policy that would be even remotely tested if they so choose to mutually agree not to make such a ball.

Classic prisoner's dilemma. How quickly does a DTC ball manufacturer break ranks and sign an exclusive with the tour? A week? A day? An hour?  

[sui generis]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

I don't see the PGA Tour going with this one.

 

They and the OEMs have had a say in this and all Rules and equipment specs for decades.

[Krt22]

Just now, Dutch1008 said:

Classic prisoner's dilemma. How quickly does a DTC ball manufacturer break ranks and sign an exclusive with the tour? A week? A day? An hour?  

Good luck getting pros to play those balls. 

[kasting333]

4 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

No one cares about LIV . . . they won't be a factor in anything going forward.

LIV golfers will be at the majors soooo you’re incorrect 

[Dutch1008]

3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Good luck getting pros to play those balls. 

You think they'll skip Augusta before putting a Vice/Snell ball in the bag? I don't. 

 

Doesn't really matter because it'd never get to that point. Titleist would never play chicken with the tour. They'll cave and the Left Dash or Left Dot, will become the Right X or Right Triangle. The ball manufacturers have no leverage as they are already making too many damn models to begin with.  

[Barfolomew]

Amateurs always want to play what the pros do but don't think Ams will want to play the Nerf Ball

[Mike412]

10 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

I don't see the PGA Tour going with this one.  Ultimately it will be up to the players and they weren't too happy about it.  YJS (paraphrasing here) said if the rule was implemented for any event he would need to go through all woods, irons, and even the putter to figure out what the ball would do and what tweaks would be needed.

For every player that’s against it there’s another one that supports it. Most notably Brandon Matthews who is second in driving distance behind Rory McIlroy.

[CLEVELAND59]

33 minutes ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

I'm guessing those are Brandel's stats? They don't seem to match up with the website numbers:

 

2007: Tour average 112.37

2022: Tour average 114.6

 

up 2.23 mph

 

How about ballspeed which is supposed to be a more accurate figure:

 

2007: Tour average 165.36

2022: Tour average 171.86

 

up 6.5 mph

 

Pretty significant if you ask me.

 

 

Even with your numbers, the fact of the matter is the scoring average is basically unchanged.  And that is the most telling fact.  

[bekgolf]

5 minutes ago, Mike412 said:

For every player that’s against it there’s another one that supports it. Most notably Brandon Matthews who is second in driving distance behind Rory McIlroy.

 

I saw his video on TGC.  Two years is being allowed for input, I have a feeling we will see lots of input, lol.

[CLEVELAND59]

4 minutes ago, Mike412 said:

For every player that’s against it there’s another one that supports it. Most notably Brandon Matthews who is second in driving distance behind Rory McIlroy.

Until today unless you were a big time PGA fan, you had never heard of Brandon Matthews and couldn't pick him out of a lineup.  Spieth basically said the tour will do what the membership wants and he clearly had no interest in a change.  And given how we've seen the evidence lately of the big names controlling the tour I think this is DOA.

[CLEVELAND59]

Just now, bekgolf said:

 

I saw his video on TGC.  Two years is being allowed for input, I have a feeling we will see lots of input, lol.

wrong.  6 months for comment.  Final rule will be decided after that.  Would go into effect in 2 years.  But the language will be done and the rule written at that point.

[Garydean]

2 minutes ago, CLEVELAND59 said:

Until today unless you were a big time PGA fan, you had never heard of Brandon Matthews and couldn't pick him out of a lineup.  Spieth basically said the tour will do what the membership wants and he clearly had no interest in a change.  And given how we've seen the evidence lately of the big names controlling the tour I think this is DOA.

I only know of the guy because I went to school with his wife lol