At what handicap does the ball become a significant variable?

[sm_watts]

There's also a trade-off when you acknowledge what your strengths and weaknesses are, and where you need the most help with your game.  For instance, when I hit a Srixon Softfeel off the tee, I get a much straighter ball than hitting a Pro V1, which will give me a slight fade.  But around the greens, I prefer a 3-piece for better feel.  So what do I use?  A 2-piece that doesn't have as much side-spin off the tee?  Or a 3-piece that works better around the greens?

The perfect ball for me would be the 3-piece with the lowest side-spin on driver hits.  Anyone know what that is?

[NoTalentLefty]

Golf for 48 of my 64 years. Most of my golf life have been using 2 piece golf balls. Experimented with more expensive urethane and surlyn covered 3 piece balls. My scores did not go down and the extra bite was not found to be more than 4 inches. Maybe because I play on cow pastures my whole life but no the ball never played into an import piece of equipment. My hcp at one time was a 6 and now it’s at 11 hcin which means playing senior tees in my area never gives me more than 7 strokes. Or the men tees more than 12 . I play once or twice a week . 

[boggyman]

3 hours ago, LeepYear said:

Second this

If one relied solely on the golf ball. h3ll, everyone would be zipping it backwards. Yes the ball helps to a certain degree, but I say it’s more about technique than the ball. 

[lefthack]

I've been trying to tell the difference between balls for 3 years now and still don't. 🤣 

 

I play 2 different balls every round and I play one 2 piece and one "tour level" and have yet to have an "ah ha" moment. Currently playing the Cut Red (in orange actually) and the Srixon Q Star Tour. I can hit incredible shots with either and can't tell the difference between them unless I look. 

 

I got the orange Cut Red for $18 a box and like that price. 

[black bnr32]

2 minutes ago, lefthack said:

I've been trying to tell the difference between balls for 3 years now and still don't. 🤣 

 

I play 2 different balls every round and I play one 2 piece and one "tour level" and have yet to have an "ah ha" moment. Currently playing the Cut Red (in orange actually) and the Srixon Q Star Tour. I can hit incredible shots with either and can't tell the difference between them unless I look. 

 

I got the orange Cut Red for $18 a box and like that price. 

I would easily see a 10 yard difference with a 7 iron between those, just due to the spin difference.

[starrman77]

If it's dry and the greens are firm, I'll play a high spinning ball. It the opposite is true, I'll play more of a low spinning distance ball.

[bekgolf]

22 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

Curious what everyone thinks about this.  I'm 75 years old and only been playing golf for 7 years and have a handicap of 12, and I can honestly say that the ball is very important; perhaps even more important than the clubs.  I've played at least a dozen different balls over the last couple years.  Many of the tour quality balls feel pretty good.  Even some of the 2 piece ionomer balls feel ok.  

 

I've settled on the Callaway Chrome Soft as the one that suits me best and I've yet to find a ball that provides me with the same feel and performance.  Some may have more spin but then lack feel.  Some may have a similar feel, but then lack spin.  Some might have similar distance with the driver, but no feel when putting and pitching.

 

Do you have to get to a certain skill level before the ball becomes a crucial part of your game?  If so, I must be there, but I'm not sure if I'm just very particular about my equipment including the ball.

 

Opinions vary.  I'm of the belief that eliminating as many variables as possible is always good when looking for a consistent result.

[bekgolf]

wrx double post got me.

Edited May 26, 2023 by bekgolf

[DJ07]

As some have said here, when the golfer is just starting or isn't hitting it consistently, they can't tell any performance difference between the range balls and the proV1 they find in the woods. To the question of at what handicap does the ball become significant, I don't think handicap would be the proper indicator. I think it's more the seriousness of the player.

 

I do agree higher handicaps could stand to "gain" more from a performance standpoint by playing a ProV1 instead of a Noodle or Pinnacle. But if a person is playing a Noodle or the cheapest ball they can find, chances are they may not care about what score they are shooting. If a player is serious enough to keep a handicap, they should be serious enough to consider what ball they are playing and find one suited for their game.

[Nessism]

As far as I'm concerned, the golf ball is the most overhyped piece of golf equipment there is.

 

I like colored balls.  Yellow is my favorite.  Something soft.  Callaway Supersoft, or Srixon Softfeel are both great.  Srixon Z Star, in yellow, is my favorite.

 

I have a cabinet of urethane tour balls, but as far as my score is concerned, the ball makes almost NO impact.

 

One of my regular playing partners is a great ball striker.  He commonly hits 14 greens per round.  For balls, he plays whatever he finds around the course.   We have another playing partner that plays Taylormade TP5's (or whatever is their latest.)  This guy can't break 90, but he just likes Taylormade.  Play what you like, but don't kid yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Nessism

[boggyman]

The CS you are using is a great ball and one of my favorites. I myself, fir unexplained reasons get better results from a 2 piece rock than anything. I’ve had a thread on this previously. Hate a  so called players ball,ProV1, V1x etc. I’ve been roasted on here for it and could care less. I’m in the $35 is plenty for a golf ball. Use to swear by the RXS till the price went up. That’s just me though. I’ve found what I like and stick to it. Lots of answers in here and to each his own. I usually buy a 15 pack of Top Rocks at DSG 2 for$25. No complaints what’s. My son tells guys in our group, when it hits the green, it’ll check, and for me, they do! 

[rooski]

I'm just working on figuring this out myself, but to me it REALLY seems like ball choice is a huge variable in how well I end up playing from day-to-day.

 

I have pretty significant speed (~120 on course with driver) and I notice that the ProV1X seems like the only ball I can count on to act pretty consistent. Anything softer than that seems to really do some weird things.

 

An example is when I'm playing a ProV1 or TP5, if I catch a flier out of the rough or hit one a groove low (or God forbid both at the same time) I'm liable to get 30-40 extra yards and a completely unplayable miss.

However when I am hitting a ProV1X, that same flier or slightly thin shot seems to react a lot more reasonably and go only a little bit long if at all. Also the ProV1X just seems straighter off the tee for me

 

For those with more understanding of how golf balls work and their construction, does this make sense as behavior I would see? Or am I just deep in confirmation bias

Edited May 26, 2023 by rooski

[lefthack]

1 hour ago, black bnr32 said:

I would easily see a 10 yard difference with a 7 iron between those, just due to the spin difference.

 

Which one would get you 10 yards more? Mine are often right next to each other. I think the 2 piece is slightly longer off the tee, but not a noticable difference. 

[ShortGolfer]

My natural shot is a high fade, which is great for hitting and holding greens using inexpensive golf balls.

[95124hacker]

I’m ok with most urethane multi-piece type balls but certain ones I just don’t get along with (e.g. TP5, Kirkland 3-piece). Feel is secondary to me over performance.

[black bnr32]

1 hour ago, lefthack said:

 

Which one would get you 10 yards more? Mine are often right next to each other. I think the 2 piece is slightly longer off the tee, but not a noticable difference. 

Less spin=more distance, which is the Cut Red.

[Titleist_PT23]

10 hours ago, kintap said:

I read a study (done by Titleist FWIW) where they put a variety of golfers with different handicaps on a 9 hole par 3 course.  There was a clear trend where the higher the handicap, the more their score improved when using a premium vs 2-piece distance ball.  The rationale was that the higher the handicap, the more greens were missed, thus the additional short game control mattered more.

Higher handicaps don't really have control around the greens.  They hit a hero shot every now and then, and think they have a Tiger, Phil, Spieth, Seve short game.  All of fatted, thinned, checked up too fast, didn't check up at all are forgotten.  Don't believe me?  Just look at short game stats by handicap.

 

My opinion is that anyone who can hit a traditional 8-iron 150 or so can hit more or less the same number of fairways/greens with any ball.  From 50 yards and in there are some shots you cannot play with a non-urethane ball but if you adjust your playing style and expectations the impact on scores is minimal (well less than a shot a round over 50+ rounds).

 

There may also be some (slight) difference based on course conditions, mainly speed and receptiveness of greens.  But most people can hold greens with a well struck iron shot regardless of the ball type.

 

None of the above factors in any individual player convincing himself/herself that this ball doesn't feel right, launches slightly different, etc, etc, and standing over the ball they've already decided it won't work.  If told people they could only play 1 ball of my choice for the next year and if they can improve their handicap I'll give them $1 billion, a lot of these comments would go away.

 

Lastly, is it possible Titleist ran a study to sell people more $50 / dozen golf balls than the $20 / dozen version?  I assume that doesn't happen and the published results are truly in the best interest of the recreational players (cough cough hacks) the company is aspiring to help enjoy the game (cough cough wheel and deal product to).

[Tinkerer]

Interesting. Right now I have some Z Stars, ProV1 and AVX. My mates say I am over-thinking this! I'm 55, handicap is heading back down, currently 15 and I have a bag full of irons! A good drive is 250-260 yards, my 7 irons is around 150-155.

 

AVX is the best ball for me tee to green, just! ProV1 is about the same. I prefer to play the Z Star as it performs much better around the green. Iron performance is OK on the Z Star but it feels shorter with driver and 3W into the wind. We're heading into winter so distance matters more. Performance says AVX, but it's no good around the green and I am losing shots there. Interested in thoughts. 

[North Butte]

8 hours ago, agolf1 said:

Higher handicaps don't really have control around the greens.  They hit a hero shot every now and then, and think they have a Tiger, Phil, Spieth, Seve short game.  All of fatted, thinned, checked up too fast, didn't check up at all are forgotten.  Don't believe me?  Just look at short game stats by handicap.

I've seen the same Titleist thing @kintap mentioned and while I suppose the overall results may have reflected the trend that Titleist claimed, I agree with you about the supposed "short game control" rationale. Even the mid handicapper I play with simply can't control the reaction of the ball using spin from 20, 30, 40 yards. That particular skill is almost 100% limited to the 6-and-under handicap range in my experience. 

[bcjim]

One of the guys I play with has a good wedge game but is otherwise a high hcp golfer. Plays random balls. Many times seen him hit a nice shot that just rolls out way more than it should. When I look,  yup, some 2 pc budget ball, every time. 

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

One of the guys I play with has a good wedge game but is otherwise a high hcp golfer. Plays random balls. Many times seen him hit a nice shot that just rolls out way more than it should. When I look,  yup, some 2 pc budget ball, every time. 

 

It's all about the strike.  I spin my shots around the green and have no problem stopping a cheap Supersoft or similar.  In fact, I spin too much for good chipping sometimes.  

One of my regular playing partners is an excellent player, 5 handicap or lower, and his chips roll out even when using his 60.  He plays a ProV1 most of the time also.  He comments quite regularly about how my short shots stop fast on the greens, wishing he could do the same.  I tell him that it's a double-edged sword...  Point?  It's not all about the ball.

[Retrop1]

Personal opinion is it starts to matter in stages. Once you are able to play golf without losing a ton of golf balls, I would at very least play the same ball all the time even if it is an inexpensive ball. That just gives the golfer one spec of consistency in an otherwise inconsistent game. I believe the next stage is when the short game begins to develop into something you have high expectations of (if this ever happens). If you are leaning on your short game a ball that delivers the right spin characteristics matters. As far as a level of ball striking, I think it matters much less but would still play the same ball all the time for consistency. There are obviously outliers, but most golf balls can be adjusted to in order to get ball striking results as long as the player learns what the ball does in varied conditions. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

At my level, it's more about playing one ball consistently than which ball that is. 

 

I'm about average swing speed, i.e. ~100 mph driver, and tend to hit the ball high enough and with enough spin that I don't think I need a high-spinning or low-spinning ball. So for me it's finding a ball that's about middle-of-the-road as far as performance characteristics, and finding the best budget option there. I do figure that sticking with urethane (3pc or higher) is more for me than 2pc surlyn. 

 

I didn't stick with the Kirkland V2 due to the high spin. I settled on Snell MTB-X and I'm about done playing my way through ~7doz over a few years just at the time they discontinue it. Grr... Trying the Kirkland V3 once I lose my final 3 Snell, and if they perform with more middle-of-the-road spin as most people are suggesting, they might be my new ball. If I don't like them, I'll probably go to the Snell Prime. 

[Mark38]

14 hours ago, rooski said:

I'm just working on figuring this out myself, but to me it REALLY seems like ball choice is a huge variable in how well I end up playing from day-to-day.

 

I have pretty significant speed (~120 on course with driver) and I notice that the ProV1X seems like the only ball I can count on to act pretty consistent. Anything softer than that seems to really do some weird things.

 

An example is when I'm playing a ProV1 or TP5, if I catch a flier out of the rough or hit one a groove low (or God forbid both at the same time) I'm liable to get 30-40 extra yards and a completely unplayable miss.

However when I am hitting a ProV1X, that same flier or slightly thin shot seems to react a lot more reasonably and go only a little bit long if at all. Also the ProV1X just seems straighter off the tee for me

 

For those with more understanding of how golf balls work and their construction, does this make sense as behavior I would see? Or am I just deep in confirmation bias

Yes, the higher spin if the Prov1x keeps that from happening.  Higher spin also keeps your target misses in a tighter dispersion.

[Mark38]

3 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

It's all about the strike.  I spin my shots around the green and have no problem stopping a cheap Supersoft or similar.  In fact, I spin too much for good chipping sometimes.  

One of my regular playing partners is an excellent player, 5 handicap or lower, and his chips roll out even when using his 60.  He plays a ProV1 most of the time also.  He comments quite regularly about how my short shots stop fast on the greens, wishing he could do the same.  I tell him that it's a double-edged sword...  Point?  It's not all about the ball.

 

Chipping with a 60 you want rollout. It takes skill. The shot requires topspin after the check.  With no roll out you are pitching. 

 

It's a combination of both.  At some point though it becomes apparent that you can get better, more consistent results with less technical effort with a ball that exhibits inherent higher stopping characteristics. Almost a cheat code.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Mark38

[RoyalMustang]

23 hours ago, mudmarlin said:

I think it matters at any handicap.  I understand golfers who aren’t very good don’t want to spend the money on a better ball because they lose a lot of them, but I have seen so many people playing two piece rocks, and have seen so many shots just not stop on the green because they don’t spin.  If these golfers who aren’t very good played balls that spin they would be putting a whole lot more, instead of duffing chips from the high rough around the greens and would definitely save strokes.  I think a ball that spins is well worth the money, for a better score, and because constantly watching your ball roll through the green is infuriating when you hit a good shot.

 

Anyone know what the difference in spin is on a crisply hit 50-degree, 130-yard full swing wedge for a top of the line ball vs a cheap 2-piece? At what spin does a ball spin backwards, vs stay in one place, vs bounce forwards? 

[RoyalMustang]

3 hours ago, Mark38 said:

 

Chipping with a 60 you want rollout. It takes skill. The shot requires topspin after the check.  With no roll out you are pitching. 

 

It's a combination of both.  At some point though it becomes apparent that you can get better, more consistent results with less technical effort with a ball that exhibits inherent higher stopping characteristics. Almost a cheat code.

 

How do you hit that shot? i have done it from time to time (throwing darts from 60 yards) but have no idea what I did right and why the next time I got a hard bounce and 8 yards of rollout. 

[North Butte]

2 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

How do you hit that shot? i have done it from time to time (throwing darts from 60 yards) but have no idea what I did right and why the next time I got a hard bounce and 8 yards of rollout. 

There's an old saying...

 

A great golf swing is a sign of dedication, perseverance and hard work. A great short game is a sign of a wasted childhood. 😁

[Mark38]

20 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

How do you hit that shot? i have done it from time to time (throwing darts from 60 yards) but have no idea what I did right and why the next time I got a hard bounce and 8 yards of rollout. 

 

De-lofted club face(forward shaft lean), slightly closed face, played closer to the back foot. Low follow through.  Compress the ball.

 

While the 60 chip can produce really good results in most cases a lower lofted club produces more accuracy both in distance and target.  Despite what many think a lot of pros are chipping with their gap wedge.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Mark38

[RoyalMustang]

40 minutes ago, Mark38 said:

 

De-lofted club face(forward shaft lean), slightly closed face, played closer to the back foot. Low follow through.  Compress the ball.

 

While the 60 chip can produce really good results in most cases a lower lofted club produces more accuracy both in distance and target.  Despite what many think a lot of pros are chipping with their gap wedge.

 

 

 

when you close the face do you point right of the target and expect a draw? Or does the ball mostly travel straight? I have played around with the "forward lean, low follow through" and now that you mention it, the ball stops on a dime. But it's hard to gauge distance as I don't practice it much yet.