How To Help A Vanity Handicapper Without Hurting His Ego?

[EmperorPenguin]

We see it quite often: guys who claim to be low-handicappers and shoot bogey golf or worse.  If you even question his handicap he will be defensive.  I ask this question in utmost sincerity: how do you help him realize he is not as good as he thinks he is?  I hinted such to one of my friends and he challenged me to a singles match with full handicaps.  I played my own game, used my strokes to layup short of the greens, shot my handicap, and I closed him out 5&3.  Instead of realizing he was a vanity capper, he blatantly accused me of sandbagging!  How can I help him see the light?  For those of you who succeeded, how did you convince him of his delusion?

[sui generis]

Asking for a friend? 🙄

[rogolf]

There's no easy way to help this fellow.  Just keep playing and beating him, telling him that you report all of your scores honestly.

There are a lot of honest players in between vanity cappers and sandbaggers - they are the fringes of the normal distribution.

Edited June 13, 2023 by rogolf

[IndyArcher]

Why would anyone even feel compelled to ‘help’ unless they are a very close friend, in which case you just have a candid conversation? People who exaggerate their low handicap ultimately do so to no one’s detriment but their own as far as I can tell. Heck, how many guys here wish they could equal my 415 yard driving average? 

 

[Louis_Posture]

It's often kids who have a bragging handicap but like dating an actress or driving a sports car they usually grow out of that habit.

[Augster]

Tell them they suck, they need to deal with it, and need to start posting ALL of their eligible scores correctly. All of them. 
 

Every vanity capper I come across doesn’t post “the bad scores” because “it won’t be a keeper anyway”. Completely flawed thinking. Post all eligible scores. He’ll have a legit cap within 20 rounds or fewer. 
 

If you seriously want to have the conversation here’s what I do. Be frank. Tell them they are WAY worse than they think they are. And that’s ok. Nobody is good at golf. We all suck. If they are embarrassed to post high scores, tell them nobody cares. They, themselves, have a much greater interest in their own scores than anyone else does. Nobody cares. Lastly, if they are still mad about it, challenge them to post all of their legit scores for the next 20 rounds. Make a bet of some sort. If he still won’t post all the scores legit, tell him you’re keeping track of his next 20 differentials when you play together. Especially if you play together often. You’ll be able to average the low 8/20 rounds you play together and show him what index that produces vs. his index at the time. If he’s a real vanity cap, those index numbers should be miles apart. 

[TripnEagle]

Wait till they ask for help, or say “you know what helps me…” 

[TripnEagle]

33 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

It's often kids who have a bragging handicap but like dating an actress or driving a sports car they usually grow out of that habit.

Handicap doesn’t matter much if you can’t show up and play what you say you can!

[jordan2240]

My question is, how did he determine this handicap?  Is it based on valid scores, or did he essentially make it up.

 

Regardless, you'll probably have the same luck one has when trying to convince his buddy he's a slow player, so just let him live in his deluded world.

[naval2006]

You can't do much to help a vanity capper or a cheat.  So when there's nothing to say, you better don't say anything. 

[st1800e]

Just ignore him, don't make other people's problems your problem.

[SNIPERBBB]

force him to qualify for a state am or US Open event?

[nvr3putt]

Refer him to a psychologist.

[cval]

My buddy I play with on the weekends has a vanity cap and when he asked me to play in the member I just said no. Not with your handicap. 

[MountainKing]

Why would you care to help, especially if he's turning it around and saying you're a sandbagger?  Be the last round I'd play with that guy.

[caniac6]

Just let him keep paying.

[toc]

Unless he’s your teammate in a tournament who cares?

[EmperorPenguin]

Among my friends I play with, two of them also take issue with the vanity capper.  For those of you who may know in another thread, I just hosted my friends to a great week of golf in Scotland.  Away from the vanity capper, the remaining three players, we discuss the legitimacy of his handicap.  We examined the scores he posted, as one can easily look them up online.  The results are horrifying: of the nine rounds he posted, many of the scores he posted were less than actual, as we compared with the scorecards.  One round he posted a 79 when in fact he shot 86.  Where did those seven strokes go, when Equitable Stroke Control did not apply to any of his holes?  Furthermore, a lot of the scores he posted stated that he played from the back tees, when we all played from the standard middle tees everyone else played on a given day; lower differentials mean a lower index, hence vanity capping.  We caught him red-handed.

[Rosco1216]

Jackpot. Just keep inviting him to money games. 

[tatertot]

26 minutes ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Among my friends I play with, two of them also take issue with the vanity capper.  For those of you who may know in another thread, I just hosted my friends to a great week of golf in Scotland.  Away from the vanity capper, the remaining three players, we discuss the legitimacy of his handicap.  We examined the scores he posted, as one can easily look them up online.  The results are horrifying: of the nine rounds he posted, many of the scores he posted were less than actual, as we compared with the scorecards.  One round he posted a 79 when in fact he shot 86.  Where did those seven strokes go, when Equitable Stroke Control did not apply to any of his holes?  Furthermore, a lot of the scores he posted stated that he played from the back tees, when we all played from the standard middle tees everyone else played on a given day; lower differentials mean a lower index, hence vanity capping.  We caught him red-handed.

So he's not a vanity capper ... he's a liar. That would seem to be a bigger issue.

[golfwb]

11 hours ago, Rosco1216 said:

Jackpot. Just keep inviting him to money games. 

This. He doesn't sound like a person that you would want to be friends with so just continue to bury him in money games.

If he calls you a sandbagger, tell him thats impossible as you turn all your scores in from the correct tee box

[JimmyC59]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:31 PM, EmperorPenguin said:

We see it quite often: guys who claim to be low-handicappers and shoot bogey golf or worse.  If you even question his handicap he will be defensive.  I ask this question in utmost sincerity: how do you help him realize he is not as good as he thinks he is?  I hinted such to one of my friends and he challenged me to a singles match with full handicaps.  I played my own game, used my strokes to layup short of the greens, shot my handicap, and I closed him out 5&3.  Instead of realizing he was a vanity capper, he blatantly accused me of sandbagging!  How can I help him see the light?  For those of you who succeeded, how did you convince him of his delusion?

Just keep playing him for money using that vanity HC.

[JimmyC59]

My friend posts all his scores, but nothing higher than a double bogey. I keep telling him it's NET double bogey, but he wants to be a 14 instead of an 18.

Oh, well.

[Mudguard]

On 6/15/2023 at 8:24 AM, cval said:

My buddy I play with on the weekends has a vanity cap and when he asked me to play in the member I just said no. Not with your handicap. 

I think that's the best way to do it. I mean vanity caps just hurt themselves most of the time, but when you get paired with one, no thanks!

[Carolina Golfer 2]

On 6/15/2023 at 11:38 PM, EmperorPenguin said:

Among my friends I play with, two of them also take issue with the vanity capper.  For those of you who may know in another thread, I just hosted my friends to a great week of golf in Scotland.  Away from the vanity capper, the remaining three players, we discuss the legitimacy of his handicap.  We examined the scores he posted, as one can easily look them up online.  The results are horrifying: of the nine rounds he posted, many of the scores he posted were less than actual, as we compared with the scorecards.  One round he posted a 79 when in fact he shot 86.  Where did those seven strokes go, when Equitable Stroke Control did not apply to any of his holes?  Furthermore, a lot of the scores he posted stated that he played from the back tees, when we all played from the standard middle tees everyone else played on a given day; lower differentials mean a lower index, hence vanity capping.  We caught him red-handed.

If you host me on your next trip to Scotland, I promise to count every stroke 🙂

 

But seriously, not much you can do about it.  As with others if confronted about it, he's likely to get defensive or come up with some bogus excuse as to why it really was a 79 vs 86.   

 

As they say, he's only hurting himself...literally.  Well unless you play in a member or 2 man event with him . 

 

[ND2005]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:04 PM, IndyArcher said:

Why would anyone even feel compelled to ‘help’ unless they are a very close friend, in which case you just have a candid conversation? People who exaggerate their low handicap ultimately do so to no one’s detriment but their own as far as I can tell. Heck, how many guys here wish they could equal my 415 yard driving average? 

 

 

Embarrassment by association. I got invited to play a very nice private club by a friend of mine who is a vanity capper and knew a member. I thought we were playing just a casual round, turned out we were playing the weekend money game. The member didn't take kindly to the 4 index dropping a 90 from the middle tees. I felt bad just being there watching it. 

[Soloman1]

Well, you’re certainly a generous person, and he’s lucky to have you as a friend. Even more so since you’re asking how to clean up his self delusion, since he falsifies his scores for handicap.

 

I’m not sure that’s possible.

 

You did play well, since most people only shoot their handicap one out of five rounds.

 

I don’t know the difference in your handicaps, but is he supposed to give you strokes? Maybe play him straight up, if that’s the case.

 

Then beat him like a drum again. 🙂

 

 

[st1800e]

What's wrong with hurting his ego? maybe he'll get the message.  

[mshills]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:31 PM, EmperorPenguin said:

We see it quite often: guys who claim to be low-handicappers and shoot bogey golf or worse.  If you even question his handicap he will be defensive.  I ask this question in utmost sincerity: how do you help him realize he is not as good as he thinks he is?  I hinted such to one of my friends and he challenged me to a singles match with full handicaps.  I played my own game, used my strokes to layup short of the greens, shot my handicap, and I closed him out 5&3.  Instead of realizing he was a vanity capper, he blatantly accused me of sandbagging!  How can I help him see the light?  For those of you who succeeded, how did you convince him of his delusion?

Not your problem to solve.

 

Keep playing him for $. Don’t play with him as your partner in any net event. 
 

He is a grown man, he may or may not figure it out. 

[EmperorPenguin]

Here is an update.  The vanity capper just came back from Bandon Dunes with a group of his college and high-school buddies.  My buddy, who was also my playing partner in the Scotland II series, was kind enough to take him and one of his friends up to SFO airport in a direct flight to North Bend.  He was also kind enough to pick him up at the airport coming back home.  The vanity capper departed last Thursday the 17th and returned on Monday the 21st.

 

I asked my buddy about the conversation on the way up to the airport.  He said that the vanity capper was pumped and excited to be going up because he said he will win a lot of money.  OK, we noted that.

 

So on Sunday, my buddy and I decided to tee it up at the local muni for a friendly match.  Although we were partners of the winning team during Scotland II, we just wanted to play a friendly singles match just to make things interesting.  We had a difference of six strokes, so he gave me three a side.  He had a hot start and was 4 up through 5, but momentum shifted and I won the remaining holes on the front to finish the front nine All Square.  On the back nine I played well enough to be 2 up with three holes to play, but I missed a short putt on the 16th hole to lose that one, and on the 17th hole missed another short one to lose that one also.  Damned aerification!  So on the 18th tee we were all square.  I missed the green short left and he was safely on the green about thirty feet away.  I hit a beautiful chip shot to three feet and his first putt was also about 3' short.  We both looked at each other and immediately agreed to a good-good and a halved match.  While putting the flagstick back in we both quick-putted and both made our putts anyway.  So for our scores we both shot one stroke worse than our respective handicaps, so there was no doubt in our minds that our handicaps are accurate.

 

Monday was the day to pick up the vanity capper from Bandon.  I told my buddy specifically to focus on the conversation and pay close attention to any talk of score, especially on the vanity capper's account.  In short, the vanity capper was constantly whining about losing his matches to sandbaggers.  Based on what he heard, we do not think that the vanity capper won any matches.  Even the vanity capper wanted to change the subject.

 

"So what did you do on Sunday?" asked the vanity capper.

"Oh, I just played golf.  [The Emperor] and I played a match and it was a great match."

"So," quipped the vanity capper.  "Who sandbagged the most?"

 

Thank God our match finished All Square, and my buddy told the vanity capper that we both shot one over our handicaps, hence accurate handicaps.  Will this guy ever learn?