Minimum Handicap To Benefit From Premium Balls?

[EmperorPenguin]

A buddy of mine told me that he attended a golf clinic which had a special guest: Padraig Harrington.  Starting his presentation he asked everyone, "How many of you have handicaps above 3?"  Everyone raised their hands.  He then said, "Play Pinnacles because you all will be wasting your time with a Pro V1."  I personally do not play Pinnacles, but I play a distance ball (Titleist Velocity) I just happen to like.  I rarely use a premium ball because I cannot tell the difference between a Pro V1X and, say, a Wilson Staff Duo.

 

What is the minimum handicap for a premium ball, anyway?

Edited October 3, 2023 by EmperorPenguin

[ae1985]

I prefer the feel of a urethane ball off of my putter face.

Edited October 3, 2023 by ae1985

[Maine Golfer]

Im 29  hnp and play used pro v1's. I think its more of a case can you strike sometimes and do you like the feel of the wedges. Its your call, not the marketing people or golf gods. 

[third-times-a-charm]

1. Just because you are good at something doesnt make you an expert on all facets of it.

2. People can do whatever they want irregardless of its effects on them.

3. There is no inherent detriment with using premium equipment no matter your skill level in the game of golf. Quite the opposite - it can only help - and golf is the only sport where the luxury of custom-tailored equipment that CAN have an effect is afforded. So, why not use it? Even if it gives you 1 better stroke or 1 better shot per round?

Edited October 3, 2023 by third-times-a-charm

[grm24]

13 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

What is the minimum handicap for a premium ball, anyway?

There is none. Play what you want.

[phil75070]

I think anyone can benefit from a "premium" ball. However, what is most important is how consistently the ball you choose performs. As long as you know and can depend on how it performs from ball to ball, that is all that matters. You can adjust accordingly. I suggest once you find a ball that performs acceptably and consistently enough, then stick with it and only play that ball.

[Righty to Lefty]

In my opinion it depends on how much you are paying for the "premium" golf balls. I used to love it when I could get my preferred tour ball (Wilson Staff FG Tour X) ball for $17.98 a dozen.  At that price there was no reason for me to try to find or play a cheaper ball as there were very few that were cheaper and the sacrifice of performance to price no longer made sense. 

 

I get what he is sayin that none of us should be paying $40 and $50 per dozen for golf balls as that is flat out silly really but we consumers fall for the marketing hype hook, line, and sinker. Pro V1's should be $20 a dozen by now but they continue to charge more and more each year.  

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

A golfer should base their purchases of golf balls based on how many said golfer will lose per round. 😄

Then, later when losses are minimized the golfer can start considering better balls. ^¿^

[CTG77]

While I would never recommend a higher handicap player pay the premium for ProV1s, etc., I would recommend opting for the next best thing:  A DTC ball like the Maxfli Tour series or similar that's a match for your swing speed. 

 

This isn't a big price jump from the Titleist Velocity ball, and if you go with the 48 pack ($2.71 a ball after tax), it's exactly the same price for a dozen of the 2022 Velocity balls at Golf Galaxy right now.  Combined with the fact that the Velocity is one of the most heinous things I've ever hit other than Top Flite rocks, they cost as much as the Maxfli balls that are very highly-reviewed, and it's a no-brainer.  The feel off your wedges and putter alone makes them a way better value than the Velocity balls.

[cgasucks]

For me, I think one who benefits most from tour level 3+ layer balls are those with great short game who makes crisp pitches and chips. Higher handicaps don't have the skills to unlock that potential.

Edited October 3, 2023 by cgasucks

[Pepperturbo]

What's bantered about in golf clinics, or by OEM's, even Pros, doesn't necessarily translate to the equipment people chose.  But if you think Harrington's advice has merit for you, by all means go for it.   He's paid to recommend; I am not paid to recommend, so don't tell others what equipment to play or do.

 

My 87-year-old golfing relative still plays ProV1.  He likes it for a number of reasons, and won't give Pee-nuckle a thought, nor would I.  Selected what benefits your wallet, game, and can afford to lose.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Go to the chipping green and hit some low spinners to a 20y pin. Then hit a few long putts. If you can’t see and/or feel a difference, play the cheapest ball you like the feel of. That’s not a sign of anything, some people feel no difference, others don’t care too much about it. 

I can see and feel a difference and it’s important to me. Rollout/bite off of chips and feel off the putter face. 
 

I play Vice Pro and would recommend Q-Star Tour of Cally Supersoft if you don’t feel much of a difference and would like to save some money. 
There‘s more great options out there. 
 

I would not link it to hcp, but to preference and the simple question, how many balls do you lose per round? I have bad phases where I lose 3-4 so I switch to a cheaper ball. But Vice/Maxfli/Snell have great offerings at a lower price than the V1 or TP5. 

[Titleist_PT23]

Most people can't consistently control the spin of a urethane ball.  Hit a few hero shots every now and then and go on to talk about the benefits of a tour ball.  A lot of people would benefit from the Pinnacle (or like balls), but they don't know it.

 

As for the idea of saving (even) one stroke, I'd guess many people are actually losing shots because they try to pull of hard shots all the time and end up with more doubles than pars.  Pitch your rock 15-20 feet past the hole, two putt, and walk to the next tee.  Or, learn to control your misses (to the extent you can) and leave yourself up and downs that don't require shots with a ton of spin.

 

 

[gioreeko]

gave a buddy who is just learning the game some Kirklands. He was playing top filghts, Slazenger, etc. Surlyn 2 piece balls. He kept wondering why his chips and pitches would just roll past the hole, when mine checked up and stopped. After giving him the Kirklands, he went from shooting 110 plus, to shooting low to mid 90's immediately. Balls matter, but mostly I would say the difference between surlyn and urethane is the biggest difference.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

3 minutes ago, gioreeko said:

gave a buddy who is just learning the game some Kirklands. He was playing top filghts, Slazenger, etc. Surlyn 2 piece balls. He kept wondering why his chips and pitches would just roll past the hole, when mine checked up and stopped. After giving him the Kirklands, he went from shooting 110 plus, to shooting low to mid 90's immediately. Balls matter, but mostly I would say the difference between surlyn and urethane is the biggest difference.

Come on, he saved 10-15 shots immediately? Hard to believe.

[gioreeko]

2 minutes ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

Come on, he saved 10-15 shots immediately? Hard to believe.

he played baseball professionally, crushes the ball well over 300 regularly, and lost a ton of shots around the greens

[betarhoalphadelta]

Sounds like a real DB thing for Paddy to say, to be honest...

 

I don't think there's a reason for most recreational golfers to believe they absolutely MUST play only the ProV1x Left Dot and everything else is poorly suited for their game... But I do think that many golfers will benefit from a Kirkland or a MaxFli Tour over a 2-pc surlyn ball. A lot of golfers don't generate enough spin via mechanics, and can use all they can get. 

[bcjim]

Ridiculous comments by PH. Single digit players are good golfers and they hit shots not too different from pros. They don't do it as often, but their good shots are just good as Paddy's.

[tatertot]

Just now, bcjim said:

Ridiculous comments by PH. Single digit players are good golfers and they hit shots not too different from pros. They don't do it as often, but their good shots are just good as Paddy's.

No ... this is a ridiculous comment. Single digits players hit shots INCREDIBLY different than pros ... and their good shots are not in the same ballpark as Paddy's.

 

As much as we'd like to fool ourselves, Harrington is pretty accurate. The majority of golfers with a double digit handicap would not see a change in their score if they played a Pinnacle vs a Pro V1. They may like the the feel off the putter, but they wouldn't see a change in their score.

[Titleist_PT23]

15 hours ago, gioreeko said:

he played baseball professionally, crushes the ball well over 300 regularly, and lost a ton of shots around the greens

Did he ever bunt for a hit?

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, tatertot said:

No ... this is a ridiculous comment. Single digits players hit shots INCREDIBLY different than pros ... and their good shots are not in the same ballpark as Paddy's.

 

As much as we'd like to fool ourselves, Harrington is pretty accurate. The majority of golfers with a double digit handicap would not see a change in their score if they played a Pinnacle vs a Pro V1. They may like the the feel off the putter, but they wouldn't see a change in their score.

Golf shots are golf shots. You saw Spieth and Clark hitting all over the planet right?  I agree it won't make much difference for high hdcp golfers but putting the cutoff at 3 is wrong. Scratch and 5s are far more similar than scratch and pros.  Even duffers strike a wedge properly once in a while (even if accidentally) and need a ball that will grab on the second hop...A Pinnacle will not.  I play with a guy that gets burned by cheap balls all the time. He's a 30 hdcp (if he actually counted) but he strikes his irons very crisply and when he gets the distance right (20%) of the time, I can tell whether he's playing a decent ball or not without even looking at it. He plays whatever he finds in the woods.

[tatertot]

1 minute ago, bcjim said:

Golf shots are golf shots. You saw Spieth and Clark hitting all over the planet right?  I agree it won't make much difference for high hdcp golfers but putting the cutoff at 3 is wrong. Scratch and 5s are far more similar than scratch and pros.  Even duffers strike a wedge properly once in a while (even if accidentally) and need a ball that will grab on the second hop...A Pinnacle will not.  I play with a guy that gets burned by cheap balls all the time. He's a 30 hdcp (if he actually counted) but he strikes his irons very crisply and when he gets the distance right (20%) of the time, I can tell whether he's playing a decent ball or not without even looking at it. He plays whatever he finds in the woods.

No, golf shots are not golf shots. 

 

My current handicap is 2.3. I've gone to pro events. I'm closer to your 30 handicap friend than I am to a PGA player.

 

Your 30 handicap friend is getting more benefits out of the big bounces the Pinnacle gives him on the bad shots than the grabs he'd get out of the Pro V's. Plus he's saving a bunch of money while shooting 102. And he's the only 30 handicap on earth who strikes his irons "very crisply".

[bcjim]

OK, well, when your hdcp creeps up above 3, get those Pinnacles out!

[Striker Ace]

Bouncy balls are good for higher handicaps just shoot a club less to land at front of green. It also forces them to learn the pitch and chip shots and how to read greens from longer puts.

 

Midhandicaps, if you're not losing that many balls then get what appeals to you in feel and performance regardless of the construction or the price.

[Maine Golfer]

On 10/3/2023 at 12:55 PM, CTG77 said:

 This isn't a big price jump from the Titleist Velocity ball, and if you go with the 48 pack ($2.71 a ball after tax), it's exactly the same price for a dozen of the 2022 Velocity balls at Golf Galaxy right now.  Combined with the fact that the Velocity is one of the most heinous things I've ever hit other than Top Flite rocks, they cost as much as the Maxfli balls that are very highly-reviewed, and it's a no-brainer.  The feel off your wedges and putter alone makes them a way better value than the Velocity balls.

Velocity's are garbage if I find them I just leave them, one of the worst balls. Nitro's are better, im serious and they are bad. 

[The Pearl]

15 hours ago, tatertot said:

No, golf shots are not golf shots. 

 

My current handicap is 2.3. I've gone to pro events. I'm closer to your 30 handicap friend than I am to a PGA player.

 

Your 30 handicap friend is getting more benefits out of the big bounces the Pinnacle gives him on the bad shots than the grabs he'd get out of the Pro V's. Plus he's saving a bunch of money while shooting 102. And he's the only 30 handicap on earth who strikes his irons "very crisply".

 

I am not sure how a 30 hdcp spraying the ball all over the course benefits from "big bounces"? Seems to me a 30 hdcp is just as likely to bounce the ball into the hazard as it is for a "big bounce" to save the golfer from trouble.

 

You seem to want to have it both ways. In your previous post up thread you claimed a double digit hdcp golfer would not see a difference in scores, now you are claiming a 30 hdcp. is gaining an advantage playing a cheap ball. I think you would have a hard time proving this statistically. 

 

As far as the "money" aspect goes, people make all kinds of money decisions that don't make sense. There are plenty of folks that drive to the course in 75K trucks and than proceed to claim to be financial wizards by playing Kirklands.  If folks want to roll up with a fresh dozen of ProV's and rifle them all over the course, fine by me. 

 

As pointed out previously, in terms of value, there is zero reason to play a cheap golf ball given the deals available in the DTC balls. 

 

Harrington's comments are just moronic. 

[ShortGolfer]

I got fitted at Club Champion for irons that would hold the greens with cheap balls!  My natural shot is a high fade and it wasn't hard to find a shaft that would allow a 6 iron to hold the green.

There are two ways to hold the green.  One is to do it with descent angle.  The other is to do it with backspin.

But, at my age, many golfers can't get much elevation with their irons, so descent angle won't work for them.

Backspin requires a good lie and hitting the ball first.  Both of those are kinda rare for a lot of golfers so flushing shots may happen infrequently.

You can't hit the ball first if there is grass between the ball and the club face.

If you hit draw the ball will roll and not sit like a fade.  I hit a draw to deal with fairway bunkers.  Much less chance of a ball buried in a bunker if the ball rolls.

When the bunkers are wet the ball will often bounce out of the bunker. 😀

 

Where does your ball land?  If you are constantly hitting it out of the rough you aren't going to get much benefit from expensive golf balls.  

Spending a lot of time looking for expensive golf balls will hurt your game.  Better to play cheap balls you don't care about losing.

 

Course management matters.  Do you hit the ball back onto the fairway?  Do you attempt to reach the green from bad lies that are far from the green?

I recall a top golfer in contention at the Masters trying to hit a hero shot from the rough and ending up in the rough again!  He was no longer in contention.

If you are going to do that you don't need expensive golf balls!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[cgasucks]

19 hours ago, bcjim said:

Ridiculous comments by PH. Single digit players are good golfers and they hit shots not too different from pros. They don't do it as often, but their good shots are just good as Paddy's.

Wrong.  I'm single digit now and I've played with club pros and can't hold a candle to them.  Heck, I'd be playing like a weekend hack playing with a boxed set from Costco if I played with a tour pro.

Edited October 5, 2023 by cgasucks

[The Pearl]

45 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

I got fitted at Club Champion for irons that would hold the greens with cheap balls!  My natural shot is a high fade and it wasn't hard to find a shaft that would allow a 6 iron to hold the green.

There are two ways to hold the green.  One is to do it with descent angle.  The other is to do it with backspin.

But, at my age, many golfers can't get much elevation with their irons, so descent angle won't work for them.

Backspin requires a good lie and hitting the ball first.  Both of those are kinda rare for a lot of golfers so flushing shots may happen infrequently.

You can't hit the ball first if there is grass between the ball and the club face.

If you hit draw the ball will roll and not sit like a fade.  I hit a draw to deal with fairway bunkers.  Much less chance of a ball buried in a bunker if the ball rolls.

When the bunkers are wet the ball will often bounce out of the bunker. 😀

 

Where does your ball land?  If you are constantly hitting it out of the rough you aren't going to get much benefit from expensive golf balls.  

Spending a lot of time looking for expensive golf balls will hurt your game.  Better to play cheap balls you don't care about losing.

 

Course management matters.  Do you hit the ball back onto the fairway?  Do you attempt to reach the green from bad lies that are far from the green?

I recall a top golfer in contention at the Masters trying to hit a hero shot from the rough and ending up in the rough again!  He was no longer in contention.

If you are going to do that you don't need expensive golf balls!

 

 

 

 

 

If you are hitting out of the rough to the green, it seems that a tour ball would be an advantage. Don't tour balls spin more from the rough than a non-tour ball? 

[tatertot]

1 hour ago, The Pearl said:

 

If you are hitting out of the rough to the green, it seems that a tour ball would be an advantage. Don't tour balls spin more from the rough than a non-tour ball? 

How does a ball know it's in the rough?