5 Iron v. 5 Hybrid Showdown ... It Wasn't Close

[uglande]

9 hours ago, moostache said:

I've gone a different direction. For the longest time I carried a 4 hybrid and always struggled with it, but it was always better than a 4 or 5 iron. I tried sticking a heavier shaft in it and it went better, then on a whim decided to try a lofted fairway wood in that group instead.  Ended up being even more forgiving. The hybrid to me introduced more lateral dispersion than the iron did. I still feel comfortable hitting a 5 iron, but I'm starting to get curious on whether to try a 5 hybrid, or start digging into 9 wood territory 🤷

I tried that experiment a while back as well. The 9 wood (Ping G425) was the most ridiculously easy clubs I've ever hit. One shot after the other, dead straight, all dropping right next to each other. But that was in a simulator. The issue was that it was a bit of overkill in terms of height and land angle. I would still consider playing one, but it would be situational and weather-dependent.

 

I agree with you about the lateral tendencies with hybrids. I'm not experiencing any of that with the 5H but probably because of the loft. Lower lofted hybrids bring more of that risk, which is why, for now, I'm keeping 7w instead of adding a 3/4H. 

[argee1977]

I swapped out a while ago, 5H just goes higher and lands softer, it's also so flexible off the tee, weird lies and as a chipper out of trouble, i can get it lower and about the same distance as the 4H, so just replaced that in the bag, still keep the 5I for those windy days and punch shots.

[mshills]

My situation is pretty unusual, but when I came back to the game in 2022 and learned to play again, I went all-in with anything that could help me play again.  No preconceived notions, no emotion (other than gratitude that the game's still available to me), and no ego.  None.

 

My initial setup had 5-7 utility irons.  They are now in the bag in the corner, as I've gone with the following:

 

Driver

5W

7W

9W (experimenting....)

25 deg hybrid

28 deg hybrid

31 deg hybrid

8i - SW

 

The hybrids are just plain easier.  It's not a silver bullet, there are none in golf, but for me, it's not complicated.  I can hit shots with the hybrids I cannot hit with irons, and there are no shots I can hit with irons that I cannot hit just as well with the hybrids.  The only real decision point I still have is if the 9W replaces the 25 deg hybrid or if they coexist.  Haven't got firm/confident carry distances here yet so I'm not sure.

 

Even before I got hurt I was always a low-spin player.  Played the Spalding Tour Edition and the Precept EV Extra Spin balls if that's any indication, and my current method of play isn't exactly high-spin either.

 

I was concerned about needing the XE747 punch-out club 😄 with my longest iron 8i, but no need.  "I may not be good at pullin' out, but ____ I'm good at punchin' out."   The odd punch-out with the hybrid is no problem and frankly my speed is such now that I am not prone to the wild foul ball that sets up the punch-out very often.

 

With the hybrids, I have to be intentional about the setup.  Closer to the ball than I think, and ball further back in stance than I think.  From there, just execute, and go make a putt.

Edited December 18, 2023 by mshills

[moostache]

2 hours ago, uglande said:

I tried that experiment a while back as well. The 9 wood (Ping G425) was the most ridiculously easy clubs I've ever hit. One shot after the other, dead straight, all dropping right next to each other. But that was in a simulator. The issue was that it was a bit of overkill in terms of height and land angle. I would still consider playing one, but it would be situational and weather-dependent.

 

I agree with you about the lateral tendencies with hybrids. I'm not experiencing any of that with the 5H but probably because of the loft. Lower lofted hybrids bring more of that risk, which is why, for now, I'm keeping 7w instead of adding a 3/4H. 

I've also dabbled with matching an SGI iron in the mix too, for ex, a Stealth or 790 5 iron with a lower set of 770s. Sometimes they're every bit as forgiving, fast, and versatile as hybrids.

 

I hear you with the high lofted wood height issue. Sometimes, the 7w just doesn't work into a headwind with the height 🤷

[rgk5]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:46 PM, optimator said:

I just picked up a King Tec 5h with this in mind. However my 5I is 26* and the Cobra can only go up to 25.5*. I can see this causing some gapping issues. 

.5 degrees is going to cause you a gapping issue? 🧐  Even Ben Hogan was not that consistent in his strike position every time.

[teedub21]

58 minutes ago, rgk5 said:

.5 degrees is going to cause you a gapping issue? 🧐  Even Ben Hogan was not that consistent in his strike position every time.

Well, the 5 hybrid will probably go further than his 5 iron, hence the gapping issue.  A 5 hybrid thats a couple degrees weaker than his 5 iron would probably be a better replacement.  

[Obee]

32 minutes ago, teedub21 said:

Well, the 5 hybrid will probably go further than his 5 iron, hence the gapping issue.  A 5 hybrid thats a couple degrees weaker than his 5 iron would probably be a better replacement.  

Yeah, the NUMBER on the hybrid is meaningless. All one should be trying to do is fill specific GAPS with their hybrids.

Some OEMs 6Hs go the same distance as 5-irons for certain players. Just need to gap properly.

[optimator]

2 hours ago, rgk5 said:

.5 degrees is going to cause you a gapping issue? 🧐  Even Ben Hogan was not that consistent in his strike position every time.

As a 5i replacement? Yes, it would. What I'm doing for now is leaving the 5i in the bag & using my 4 & 5h as a 3 & 4i replacement. 

[MattC555]

 

I played half of last season with a 24° hybrid instead of my bladed 23° 4 iron.  So, complete opposite sides of the spectrum.  Plus's were distance retention on mishits and a higher ball flight that rolled out less.  My issues were a wider dispersion and I couldn't hit a low one with it.  Windy days I avoided hitting it.  I had a couple of rounds where I kept hooking it, something I never do with an iron, and that was that.  I ended up compromising with a 225 Mizuno 4 iron that gaps closer to my 5 wood than the MP20 does.   

 

I totally recommend hybrids to all, but my current experiment with them is over. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by MattC555

[rgk5]

1 hour ago, optimator said:

As a 5i replacement? Yes, it would. What I'm doing for now is leaving the 5i in the bag & using my 4 & 5h as a 3 & 4i replacement. 

That sounds about right.  

[nosedive32]

I've messed around with everything in the 3-4-5 iron spot over the years and I've finally settled on just building clubs that work for me in every category.

 

Bag:

 

Driver 

Minidriver

(Rotation)

6-48

54 60

Putter

 

I have a 16.5 Epic Speed 4 Wood, 17 Degree Apex Utility, and 17 Degree Stealth DHY that all cover the same number in different ways.

 

I have 21 and 24 degree TSR2 Hybrids and 20 and 23 degree Stealth DHYs that can swap in and out.

 

I have the Utility Wood and Hybrids in bag most often because I hit them most consistently "solid" but if I'm striking it well I'm better off with the 3,4, and 5 utility irons. My dispersion left to right is much better with the irons. I just have a s*** now and then that's struck terribly that makes me look stupid that gets the hybrids in the bag more often.

 

 

[jomatty]

13 hours ago, Obee said:

Interesting. 
 

Most 5h clubs are made to launch high. Lots of OEMs make two or more varieties of their hybrids in the 2h, 3h, 4h slots, with the "player's" version designed for a slighty lower ball flight — Titleist's TSR 3, for instance. Play those. 
 

I will do a quick video of a low 5h shot. For me it's a 175 shot, max, nowadays, though. 🙂

 

Are you normally a fader or drawer of your mid-irons?

Natural shot shape is a fade.  I generally need a fairly good reason to hit a draw.  Lower running type shots are one of those reasons.  I’ve got a fair amount of confidence in a smothering draw/hook type feel.

Thanks for the interest and help!

[mantan]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:19 PM, mantan said:

It may be an offseason project. The line of demaracation in my bag is the 5-iron.  I am very comfortable with my 6-rion.  Garmin shows I average 173 with it. I trust pulling it out in any situation.  My confidence level with it is an 8.

 

My 4H is my security blanket club. Garmin shows I hit it 202 yards. My confidence level with it is a 10.

 

My 5-iron is the problem. It's intoxicating when I flush it.  But I only pull it out if there is a decent margin of error on the hole. My confidence level is a 3.

 

I need to swallow my pride and just look for a 5h.

 

 

 

It's time to make a change. The back 9 of today's round was a perfect illustration.

 

#14 was the #1 handicap hole.  I had 160 yards into a slight breeze.  It was a bare almost dirt lie and I had to carry a lake to a fairly small green. I had total faith in my 6-iron and put it on the back of the green.

 

#17 is an odd hole where you have to lay up with a hybrid off the tee to avoid a lake. But you still have another 175+ to the green. It was playing into the same slight breeze. My Garmin captures all my shots. I hit a 184-yard hybrid off the tee.  Then a 192-yard hybrid on the green.  Total faith in that club.

 

#18 Pushed my drive left.  I had 153 up a slight hill.  I had to hit it a bit low to get under a tree in front of me.  Hit the 6-iron from the back of my stance and put it pin high on the fringe.

 

I hit my 5-iron twice today both on a par 3.  I hit a bad push slice on one that hit a tree and dropped.  The other one was fat and went about 60 yards.  I don't trust it at all.  And for every shot it gives me a decent result, it feels like I have 4 that are bad.

 

 

[ChipNRun]

Here's the comparison bloc: high loft FWs v. hybrids v. long(er) irons.

• In 2012, dumped 3W + 5W and switched to 4W and 7W as my bridge anchors; been that way since, except for a couple of model changes. Also added 4H.
• In 2013, switched to: 4W + 7W and 3H + 4H. Game plan: carried 4W + 7W + 4H in summer, 7W blasted ball out out of summer rough well // swapped 7W for 3H in winter; 3H could handle thinner winter rough, and it launched lower against winter winds.
• Interim: piddled around with different mixes of  hybrids and 4W + 7W and 4i.
• 2019: Picked up Rogues (see below), soon after got MAX irons. MAX irons hotter than old Tour Edge which squeezed out 4i. and, I kept BB OSize 4H and learned how to, among other things, hit a stinger with it.

 

As for 5i vs. 5H. The 5H on a few tries seems to get the ball up a bit too high. The MAX 5i, with lighter shaft than my old irons, really launches well. Plus, it dovetails nicely in distance yardstick with 4H, squeezing out 4i distancewise.

 

Hint to all: For me, the stock MAX shafts work fine for my 5i. For those or you that have iffy results with your longest numbered irion, consider a reshaft. By iffy, I mean that frustrating hit and miss, not just plain won't work for you. Refitting with a hybrid shaft, or the next lighter version of you stock shaft, will increase clubhead speed and give more consistent launch.

[third-times-a-charm]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:26 AM, hook_or_slice said:

 

That's my experience also.

A miss hit long iron may look and feel much worse than a hybrid,  but my bad miss long iron is usually way short leaving an easy chip up to the green, a missed hybrid can be anywhere. 

After doing more testing with the 5h vs 4 iron this is what I'm getting at. My miss with the hybrid is a big hook but with the fli hi 4 iron its either this or just a low draw.

[mantan]

Does anybody have experience with a Tour Edge 5-hybrid? I'm trying to get something on the cheap since this is an experiment....

[cardoustie]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:43 PM, jomatty said:

ADDI 85X.  I used to use the same shaft that was in my irons (MMT 105S) but have had good results with the ADDI.  I don’t have trouble with missing left with normal shots, but low hooks can get away big time.

Try the 95x or 105x versions and thank me later

[cardoustie]

I swallowed my pride and added the fugly 6h in my sig to my bag

it won’t likely come out, even though I have an Adams a10 tour issue 28*

it produces repeatable high draws off any lie, more predictable than all my 6 irons 

[bgfgolf]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:44 PM, jomatty said:

Yeah, when I’ve used a 5 hybrid that’s what I did.  I’m giving up a lot of distance doing that though.  Especially because I game a proto concepts 6 iron and the. Switch to t300 5 iron that is strong lofted and hot.

I think I misunderstood his original post. I was just thinking about having to punch out like under a tree branch, something like that. I don’t ever try to hit low hooks or cuts with my hybrids into greens. So that’s not a problem for me. As for punching out, distance isn’t really the concern as much as advancing it and keeping it out of the trees again.

[rkillian]

Playing stronger lofted irons, my 23* hybrid is essentially my 5 iron replacement. I tried a SGI 5 iron in the spot first and it just didn't work as well. I had also tried a 5 iron with a different iron set all together and while an iron was less likely to have a big left miss for me, the miss with the iron happened way more often than a punishing miss with hybrid. I've been playing a half set only this fall and into winter with the hybrid in there. When I play my full set, I'm likely to hit a choked down, shortened swing hybrid instead of me 6 iron at this point. It's such an easy shot to hit. I toy with the idea of getting I hybrid to replace my 6 iron now.

[jomatty]

This thread, especially @cardoustie and @Obee comments in it have got a 5 hybrid back in the bag.  It is a Cobra king tec 24 degrees.  I still am not very confident hitting a low hooking shot but am fairly sure that with practice I will get it figured out.  I also have reevaluated how important it is to be able to hit that shot as far as I can with the 5 iron.  I can always just play it a little shorter with the 6 iron if necessary while I dial in the hybrid.  There is no doubt that it is much more consistent and easy from the fairway or rough.  I suspect the left to right dispersion may be a little better with the 5 iron but it is close.  The front to back dispersion is not even close though.  It is so much easier for me to hit it solid and in the neighborhood of pin high.  This is not the case with the iron.  
Currently I’m going Driver, 3 wood, 19 utility wood, 24 degree hybrid, 28 degree 6 iron (proto c co5).  Before spring I will get a 21 degree utility wood (or a hybrid to fill that gap) and drop the 19.  At that point I can turn the 24 degree hybrid to 25.  In testing I was really surprised that I could turn the loft up and still like the way it sat and not have issues going left.  In general I don’t like the way clubs sit when I add loft to them, and really like the look when loft is subtracted.  This hybrid is good and does not like to go left though.  Those changes should help get my gapping in good shape and then I can decide if I want to add a 5 or 7 wood or go to a 52,56,60 wedge set up (currently going 52,58).

i love this stuff lol.  Gives me an excuse to buy new clubs, even if it doesn’t make any real difference in the scores I post…I do believe the 5 hybrid for 5 iron is an actua advantage over the other set up.

thanks guys

[cardoustie]

23 minutes ago, jomatty said:

This thread, especially @cardoustie and @Obee comments in it have got a 5 hybrid back in the bag.  It is a Cobra king tec 24 degrees.  I still am not very confident hitting a low hooking shot but am fairly sure that with practice I will get it figured out.  I also have reevaluated how important it is to be able to hit that shot as far as I can with the 5 iron.  I can always just play it a little shorter with the 6 iron if necessary while I dial in the hybrid.  There is no doubt that it is much more consistent and easy from the fairway or rough.  I suspect the left to right dispersion may be a little better with the 5 iron but it is close.  The front to back dispersion is not even close though.  It is so much easier for me to hit it solid and in the neighborhood of pin high.  This is not the case with the iron.  
Currently I’m going Driver, 3 wood, 19 utility wood, 24 degree hybrid, 28 degree 6 iron (proto c co5).  Before spring I will get a 21 degree utility wood (or a hybrid to fill that gap) and drop the 19.  At that point I can turn the 24 degree hybrid to 25.  In testing I was really surprised that I could turn the loft up and still like the way it sat and not have issues going left.  In general I don’t like the way clubs sit when I add loft to them, and really like the look when loft is subtracted.  This hybrid is good and does not like to go left though.  Those changes should help get my gapping in good shape and then I can decide if I want to add a 5 or 7 wood or go to a 52,56,60 wedge set up (currently going 52,58).

i love this stuff lol.  Gives me an excuse to buy new clubs, even if it doesn’t make any real difference in the scores I post…I do believe the 5 hybrid for 5 iron is an actua advantage over the other set up.

thanks guys

Big fan of the driver - 4w -7w - 5h set up

or whatever you call clubs at the top end of the bag that are lofted 10/11 - 16/17 - 20/21 - 25/26*

then I add in a 64* for some magic sauce 

[Obee]

42 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Big fan of the driver - 4w -7w - 5h set up

or whatever you call clubs at the top end of the bag that are lofted 10/11 - 16/17 - 20/21 - 25/26*

then I add in a 64* for some magic sauce 

We have got to play one of these days, Card!

[cardoustie]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

We have got to play one of these days, Card!

I’m in Florida Jan-April … keep me in mind if you get to SWFL

[Glock917]

3 hours ago, jomatty said:

It is a Cobra king tec 24 degrees.  I still am not very confident hitting a low hooking shot but am fairly sure that with practice I will get it figured out.  I also have reevaluated how important it is to be able to hit that shot as far as I can with the 5 iron.  I can always just play it a little shorter with the 6 iron if necessary while I dial in the hybrid.  There is no doubt that it is much more consistent and easy from the fairway or rough.  I suspect the left to right dispersion may be a little better with the 5 iron but it is close.  The front to back dispersion is not even close though.  

 

I am in similar boat. I have the king tec hybrid in 24*. I turn it down 1* and make it my 4i replacement which is a DI ZX utility 4i. Yeah side to side is a bit of a wash maybe the 4i on a good day but front to back is not close on a bad or good day. Obviously way more versatile out of various lies.

My hurdle to not fully commit to it is more being a mental headcase that its unorthodox to see launch out of such a high window. Stepping up to a shot I like visualizing the window it shoots out and the hybrid just goes immediately up out of my vision thinking I made a dummy skymark off the turf lol. 

[jomatty]

4 hours ago, cardoustie said:

Big fan of the driver - 4w -7w - 5h set up

or whatever you call clubs at the top end of the bag that are lofted 10/11 - 16/17 - 20/21 - 25/26*

then I add in a 64* for some magic sauce 

That is definitely a possibility.  All summer I was playing a 5 wood turned down to 16.5.  I really like the utility wood in the 7 wood spot and they go such similar distances that I have to choose.  May very well end up going 4W, 21 Uw, 5hy.

[Dan Drake]

4 hours ago, cardoustie said:

Big fan of the driver - 4w -7w - 5h set up

or whatever you call clubs at the top end of the bag that are lofted 10/11 - 16/17 - 20/21 - 25/26*

then I add in a 64* for some magic sauce 

My needs are a bit different, to be sure, but I genuinely feel that most golfers have gaps at the top of the bag that are WAY too tight, yardage-wise.  5°-ish gaps will be just fine when paired with shaft length and weight to result in yardage ranges that are more than playable.  Personally, I'm at 8°(46")-14°(43.5")-19°(42")-23°(38.5" steel)-28°(38.5" steel).  This results in "best case scenario" yardages of 295-270-245-220-200 which is more than precise enough for someone like me.  

 

If you really need precision gapping from 220+yds, your are either Nathan Smith, a sadist, or playing from a set of tees that is too long, IMHO.  

[kiwihacker]

On 12/15/2023 at 4:28 PM, Golfer from MO said:

I'm a scratch high speed player that hits irons really well. I feel like I have way more control with my 5 and 4 than a hybrid in those spots. I do have a hybrid 19deg in my 5wood slot. Cally UW I really like but went thru 6 shafts to love it (100g tx). I think higher lofted hybrids are harder to control varied distances for higher speed players who also strike it well.

I'm a 14 handicap but agree with this. I do have hybrids at 20.5° and 23° which effectively fill the 5 wood and 3/4 iron slot (but only because of the strength of modern irons in the case of the 4 iron). I have a 24° 5 iron that I absolutely love and definitely feel I have more control with the 5-6 irons. If there is risk in a wayward shot I'm definitely laying up with the 5 or 6 iron versus hitting the hybrid. 

 

There is loft overlap with a 23° hybrid and a 24° 5 iron but the distance gapping between them is perfect.

[jholz]

I've got hybrids at 18*, 22*, and 26* filling the gap from 3w to 6i. 

 

I find they give me the best confidence, performance and, adaptability.

 

I'd much prefer to choke up on or knock down a hybrid rather than a FW.  

[JMB3]

3 hours ago, jomatty said:

That is definitely a possibility.  All summer I was playing a 5 wood turned down to 16.5.  I really like the utility wood in the 7 wood spot and they go such similar distances that I have to choose.  May very well end up going 4W, 21 Uw, 5hy.

I think a I’ll be going with a similar setup.  Ping 5w turned down to 17, then 21* UW (2024), and Ping 5h turned down to 25.

 

I love my 5i, but if I’m being honest with myself, I was far more consistent this past season with my 4h than my 5i.