DIY Driver tune up / DIY fitting

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, Primo1868 said:

Hey @Howard_Jones (pardon me if I missed it) are the original graphs posted in 2013-2016 showing up? 
 

I can’t see any graphs to see any relationship from the “original” posts. Any chance you can re send them? 
 

Thanks!

original what

i  dont understand what you are asking for

[Primo1868]

On 10/10/2013 at 5:00 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Here is an update with a few charts for you.

The first is a chart for un-cut shaft weight of all your clubs.
- This is MY suggestion for shaft weight progression, as we change shaft lenght.
If you have a favorite club that just feels right, find the un cut shaft weight of that club, and locate it in the green fields in the bottom of the chart. In some cases you will find your favorit clubs shaft weight in 3 rows. The middle would be my suggestion for the rest of your bag, based on your favorite club. The row to the left is 5 grams down, the row to the right is 5 grams up.

The chart is based on players ive been doing more than 1 club for, and i found a pattern behind it, who can be explained. In a set of irons with constant weight shafts, both shafts and grips is equal in weight, the only difference is the head. The clubs total weight changes by the same as head weight changes, and thats 7 grams pr. iron.

In Drivers and woods we can use 10 grams pr. club like this
- Driver = 198
- 3W = 208
- 4W = 213
- 5W = 218
- 7W = 228

In woods we go 10 grams pr inch, or compared to irons, only 5 gram pr 0.5 inch, and then we will need some extra weight. If we use 5 grams plus on Shaft Weight pr inch shorter club, the total weight difference would be about 7.5 grams pr 0.5 inch in woods, compared to 7 grams in irons. Then we ends up with a "heft" in all your clubs who makes them more equal than many players got.

[attachment=1907503:Shaft weight progression.PNG]

EDIT - NEW Chart with IMPERIAL WTF added.
[attachment=1908815:Static fitting club length.PNG]

@Howard_Jones

example would be the post above - there are no graphs/charts etc.. only text where the charts would be, I.e. 

“[attachment=1907503:Shaft weight progression.PNG]

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Primo1868 said:

@Howard_Jones

example would be the post above - there are no graphs/charts etc.. only text where the charts would be, I.e. 

“[attachment=1907503:Shaft weight progression.PNG]

 

 

[Phabs]

Hit about my last 30 balls to see what my strike point was doing.   Think I had a couple teed up too low but besides that contact was pretty consistent, guess I’ll leave the length at 45”.   Also didn’t have foot spray so compromises had to be made 🤣

Edited October 25, 2022 by Phabs

[Phabs]

Gathering headweight is mostly about what feels right to you swinging it.  My weights just showed up so I’ll be headed to the range tomorrow night.  Noticed Fowler plays a 3/4g weight combo in his but I’m assuming it’s hot melted. 

[JungleJimbo]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:14 AM, Phabs said:

Hit about my last 30 balls to see what my strike point was doing.   Think I had a couple teed up too low but besides that contact was pretty consistent, guess I’ll leave the length at 45”.   Also didn’t have foot spray so compromises had to be made 🤣

 

@Phabs That "absorbs moisture & reduces chafing... fresh & tingly peppermint" in your photo = reminds me of those Manscaped adverts!

 

 

 

https://www.menshealth.com/grooming/a33378199/dollar-shave-club-groundskeeper-ball-spray-launch-contest/

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Thank you again for the great thread and inputs, Howard!

 

I picked up a new fairway recently.  After a few swings, I was able to determine the shaft did not fit and the swing weight was too high.  With the knowledge gained here, I have made the self-fit process easier for me to comprehend and adjust as needed.  My experiments have gone down, and I am able to find what "fits" faster.  This has been rewarding in practice and play.  Thank you!

[drbonesvt]

This should be apart of new member orientation 

[joostin]

Decided to take a literal approach to Howard's picture.  It's a little more centered, but keeping it like this for positive thoughts and a bit of strike intent because... happy place 🙂

CG is the little black dot drooling from the smile.

 

[Phabs]

New driver better results.  Thanks again Howard for all the info.  44.5 D2 is the sweet spot for me.  I’ve used this method to help multiple people now 

[Howard_Jones]

@me05501

Just follow the steps in the first post on page 1, and ask if anything is unclear

[CBraynor]

Really great thread! I’ve read thru the original post multiple times and skimmed the comments.

A little about me: 3 handicap I’d say accuracy off the tee is a strong suit of mine. i know I come a bit out to in, so I typically play a slight fade. Never been very long (100ish mph SS). My miss is usually a low heel fade or a well struck pull. Have always played my driver at 45”. Decided to give this a try to see if I could optimize my impact position and gain a bit of distance.

Initial results were all slightly heel side, with some right about in the center of the face. Fairly consistent impact, some a hair high and some a hair low but overall not too bad. Figured I could get moved toe side no problem. However, no matter what I did impact stayed the same. Tried going anywhere from .5-1.5” short, adding lead tape, not adding lead, and no matter what I did I couldn’t move the impact toe side. 

anyone else run into this issue or have any insight on what I could try? Is it just when I grip down, I also make an adjustment at setup to scoot that much closer to the ball? Thanks all! I’ll likely test again early next week to see if my results are the same

Edited June 10, 2023 by CBraynor
Formatting

[D0ch0l1d4y]

19 hours ago, CBraynor said:

Really great thread! I’ve read thru the original post multiple times and skimmed the comments.

A little about me: 3 handicap I’d say accuracy off the tee is a strong suit of mine. i know I come a bit out to in, so I typically play a slight fade. Never been very long (100ish mph SS). My miss is usually a low heel fade or a well struck pull. Have always played my driver at 45”. Decided to give this a try to see if I could optimize my impact position and gain a bit of distance.

Initial results were all slightly heel side, with some right about in the center of the face. Fairly consistent impact, some a hair high and some a hair low but overall not too bad. Figured I could get moved toe side no problem. However, no matter what I did impact stayed the same. Tried going anywhere from .5-1.5” short, adding lead tape, not adding lead, and no matter what I did I couldn’t move the impact toe side. 

anyone else run into this issue or have any insight on what I could try? Is it just when I grip down, I also make an adjustment at setup to scoot that much closer to the ball? Thanks all! I’ll likely test again early next week to see if my results are the same

my miss was opposite…toe side(and low on the face)  and just could not get it to move no matter what adjustment. 
 

out of desperation, I started playing my pre-shot focal point. Turns out my hands always try to get the leading edge of every club to hit what I was looking at. With a driver, I always set the ball up so a dot was on the back-bottom 1/4 of the ball to promote hitting it from the inside…so that’s where the leading edge of my driver went.

 

changed my focal point to a line I draw on my tee…been center punching it at a significantly higher percentage since I made that change. I know it’s a band-aid, but it works for me.

[ChaosTheory]

Just for fun, here are pics of the face-on balance point for several versions of the TM M4 driver.  All were located with no adapter in the head. There are 2 circles on the 10.5, to show the points without and with the adapter in the head.
 

 The lofts are written on the faces.  There are 9.5 and 10.5 regular and D-Type (draw) versions, and a regular 12.  

 

One thing that stands out to me is how high the points are.  But the M4 was found to have one of the highest COG’s of that year.  The 12 demonstrates how higher loft sort of fools the measurement by making it look to be higher up the face.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Snowman9000

[Mulliganizer]

Love this thread, so much good information! Went to the dollar store and got some foot spray on the way to the driving range. Placed the inside left foot next to an alignment stick that was pointing at the ball and took 5 hits, each time choking down about 1/2" and yet, got the same result. So my guess is it's more me than the club. Looks like lessons it is. 😞
 

[byoshio82]

What a wealth of knowledge! Amazing and thank you for sharing all this!

[Wooderson]

@Howard_Jones, I would love your thoughts on driver face angle and how a person can apply tune up like principles to get that worked out. 

 

Looking at tour issue TaylorMade heads on ebay it's amazing how much face angle and loft differ from head to head. I don't think a person can get fit and then get a driver that truly matches what they were fit into unless they walk out with the demo/fitting head. Thoughts?  

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, Wooderson said:

@Howard_Jones, I would love your thoughts on driver face angle and how a person can apply tune up like principles to get that worked out. 

 

Looking at tour issue TaylorMade heads on ebay it's amazing how much face angle and loft differ from head to head. I don't think a person can get fit and then get a driver that truly matches what they were fit into unless they walk out with the demo/fitting head. Thoughts?  

 

We need a launch monitor for face angle, we have to know where the numbers comes from, and i dont know any ways around that, so its not included in this DIY driver trune up.

[subcrazy12]

Trying to see if perhaps I am on the correct path as I work to do a DIY tune up/fitting.

 

Here is a photo of my impacts at varying lengths:

 

 

Accompanying Trackman Data labeled to each length

 

It certainly felt like the shorter length I was making more consistent solid contact, and I think looking at the numbers it bears that out. 

 

Also of note I bought this driver 2nd hand and I don't believe it was standard length to begin with so trying to sort out what length I should potentially go with. Club head is Callaway rogue Sub zero 9*. Also I am 5'7" or so and my WtF is 33"

 

Adapter length:

Length measurement to top of hosel:

 

 

I think for next steps I need to try and figure out weight, but before I get there I was wondering if I had missed anything.

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, subcrazy12 said:

Trying to see if perhaps I am on the correct path as I work to do a DIY tune up/fitting.

 

Here is a photo of my impacts at varying lengths:

 

 

Accompanying Trackman Data labeled to each length

 

It certainly felt like the shorter length I was making more consistent solid contact, and I think looking at the numbers it bears that out. 

 

Also of note I bought this driver 2nd hand and I don't believe it was standard length to begin with so trying to sort out what length I should potentially go with. Club head is Callaway rogue Sub zero 9*. Also I am 5'7" or so and my WtF is 33"

 

Adapter length:

Length measurement to top of hosel:

 

 

I think for next steps I need to try and figure out weight, but before I get there I was wondering if I had missed anything.

Go back to page 1, you have to try added weight, not only shorter.
In the bottom of the main post, there is link to a DIY ruler for Golf, the way you measure here is not how we do it

[Stuart_G]

6 hours ago, subcrazy12 said:

Adapter length:

 

And if you want to measure just the shaft length with the adapter, you have to remove the shaft from the head to do that - and measure to the very tip of the adapter.    But it's not really all that useful a measurement because converting that to a playing length can be different depending on the head model - even for different heads from the same OEM.

 

So it's better to follow Howard's advice and learn how to measure club length.  It's not really all that hard once you learn.

 

Here is a different link that might help you with that.

 

https://www.hirekogolf.com/how-is-the-length-of-a-golf-club-measured

[subcrazy12]

Thanks @Stuart_G and @Howard_Jones for the feedback.  I'll go back and start over with the advice in mind.

[Howard_Jones]

23 minutes ago, subcrazy12 said:

Thanks @Stuart_G and @Howard_Jones for the feedback.  I'll go back and start over with the advice in mind.

Dont be afraid to ask questions along the way, thats what this forum is all about, exchange of knowledge, so simply follow the steps, and if anything is unclear, simply ASK what ever question you might have.

[Primo1868]

On 10/12/2020 at 12:32 PM, Howard_Jones said:

Correct to:
Heavy = Fat
Light = Thin

Has anyone had any success duplicating this process with fairway woods?

 

Been recently struggling to hit my 5 wood reliably off the deck since a few swing changes (can hit it off a tee extremely well). This thread has essentially cured my driver issues and I think its about time to get the spray out and check out this 5wood..

[Howard_Jones]

9 minutes ago, Primo1868 said:

Has anyone had any success duplicating this process with fairway woods?

 

Been recently struggling to hit my 5 wood reliably off the deck since a few swing changes (can hit it off a tee extremely well). This thread has essentially cured my driver issues and I think its about time to get the spray out and check out this 5wood..

Its the same for all clubs except the putter, so just do it.

[ChaosTheory]

1 hour ago, Primo1868 said:

Has anyone had any success duplicating this process with fairway woods?

 

Been recently struggling to hit my 5 wood reliably off the deck since a few swing changes (can hit it off a tee extremely well). This thread has essentially cured my driver issues and I think its about time to get the spray out and check out this 5wood..

 

For me, too soft of a shaft causes fat hits, too stiff causes thin hits.  I have not found the too heavy or too light to correlate to fat or thin, myself.  People are different.

[Howard_Jones]

59 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

 

For me, too soft of a shaft causes fat hits, too stiff causes thin hits.  I have not found the too heavy or too light to correlate to fat or thin, myself.  People are different.

Thats the strange thing about golf equipment

I say heavy is FAT and light is THIN, but it might be opposite, since the experience of "heavy" might cause you to pull the club during the swing to prevent a fat shot, ending with a thin shot....trial and error is the only way in the end, since we all respond a bit different to changes.

[Primo1868]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:04 PM, Snowman9000 said:

 

For me, too soft of a shaft causes fat hits, too stiff causes thin hits.  I have not found the too heavy or too light to correlate to fat or thin, myself.  People are different.

 

On 9/27/2023 at 3:06 PM, Howard_Jones said:

Thats the strange thing about golf equipment

I say heavy is FAT and light is THIN, but it might be opposite, since the experience of "heavy" might cause you to pull the club during the swing to prevent a fat shot, ending with a thin shot....trial and error is the only way in the end, since we all respond a bit different to changes.

 

Well, took the time this weekend and went through 3 wood, 5 wood, and full shot wedges. 

 

Fairway woods were all off the deck (no tee balls) - originally started off the mat and then confirmed from the range grass. Settled on:

• 3 wood - final results were no change to shaft, removed 9gms from head (by pulling out weight)
  • Details:
    • Center strike contact but thin right out of the gate. At this point decided to leave the shaft weight alone and vary head weight. 
    • The more weight I added to the head (in -2gm increments) the thinner and thinner my strikes got
    • Ended up removing the +9gm weight from the head, which moved strike right to the sweetspot. Tried added weight back in 2gm increments and strike quality went back to low on the face
• 5 wood - final results were +5gm lead tape added to shaft at balance point and removed 9gms from head (by pulling out weight)
  • Details:
    • Right out of the gate strike quality was poor, low heel
    • Added 5gms to shaft at balance point and strike quality ended center of the face, but low
    • Went through iterations of adding weight in +2gm increments to the head, strike quality got thinner and thinner
    • Ended up removing the +9gm weight from the head, which moved strike right to the sweetspot. Tried added weight back to 2gm increments and strike quality went back to low on the face.
• Wedges - final results were added ~5gms of lead tape to the shaft at balance point
  • Details:
    • All three wedges initial strike quality was favored toe side, strikes were in a good location vertically on the face though
    • Added head weight, strikes got thinner and thinner
    • Added 5gm shaft weight, strikes moved closer to center

Went back the next day and confirmed the 3wood and 5 wood strikes were the same. All nice mid flight penetrating cuts at my target. Really excited to hit fairway woods again after this weekend. I need to get on a launch monitor and check/verify spin and carry numbers.

 

Seems like I have a theme here with what I like:

• Anecdotally it seems (with shafts staying the same) the higher the headweight the more thin I strike my clubs. Not sure if this is due to a more left path or just simply hitting a +AoA. Or like Howard said, the experience of a, "heavy" head might cause me to pull the club "up" during the swing. 
  • My driver (after settling on what is PERFECT) from this process is +15gms headweight at 45"
  • 3w and 5w, speaking generally, are both heavy shafts with "lighter than stock" heads
    • In general, it seems like I like a heavy shaft, heavy heft, but lighter head weight for clubs I hit off the turf. I like a lighter shaft, mid heft, and heavier head weight with clubs I hit off a tee.  Need to mull it over some more. 

 

Thanks again for this guide, @Howard_Jones

 

[Phabs]

Why is this not pinned to the top of this section.... permanently. 

[Howard_Jones]

On 10/2/2023 at 5:59 PM, Phabs said:

Why is this not pinned to the top of this section.... permanently. 

Because it would mean that i would have a full day job just to follow up questions, and i cant offer more time to this forum than i already does. If it gets pinned, i will have to close for comments, thats the balance here.