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Phil Mickelson swing/ball speed

drgolfaholicdrgolfaholic Advanced Members Posts: 1,205 ✭✭
edited February 11 in Tour Talk
Driver ball speed has been a useful parameter for length off the tee. DJ, Brooks, Rory own the 180+ territory; Cameron Champ now redefines it with 190+ range lol. Tiger post back surgery clocks 180s on occasions. Phil has always been in the low to mid 170s. What happened over the winter break? He's mentioned the core training (blah blah) that laymen wouldn't understand. At 48 (turning 49 in June), he now clocks 180s regularly at the Hope and even down in Monterey in the cold weather. I find this remarkable. Don't you?
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  • jgonz69jgonz69 Advanced Members Posts: 741 ✭✭
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  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Advanced Members Posts: 2,130 ✭✭
    Deer Antler Spray.
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    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • CwebbCwebb Advanced Members Posts: 5,847 ✭✭
    edited February 11
    Maybe he's proving that it is possible to gain power at a later age. There are experts in various athletic fields who believe it is.



    His major advantage is that his swing has been "easy" on his body. No serious injuries to deal with
  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Advanced Members Posts: 1,502 ✭✭
    Steroid gum.
  • jasonfish11jasonfish11 Advanced Members Posts: 428
    Embrel
  • jmkenn0jmkenn0 Advanced Members Posts: 663 ✭✭
    He's lost a lot of weight? He's probably in the best shape he's been in, maybe forever, and doing the speed system as additional physical training?
  • Scotty1140Scotty1140 Advanced Members Posts: 4,394 ✭✭
    Falconry
  • GolfnutgalenGolfnutgalen Advanced Members Posts: 2,394 ✭✭
    I've seen Phil on the broadcast routinely clock over 182 this season, but the actual PGA website stats list his average at 176.68 in 6 attempts with highest being 178.77, who to trust!!



    Tiger was at 178.23 last year for reference.
  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Advanced Members Posts: 1,202
    Is Phils accuracy better or worse when swinging harder at 180+ ?
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  • drgolfaholicdrgolfaholic Advanced Members Posts: 1,205 ✭✭
    Barfolomew wrote:


    Is Phils accuracy better or worse when swinging harder at 180+ ?


    He has some spraying tendency like Sunday at number 6 but all in all, I think he's actually more accurate. Hit all fws at MPCC first round.
  • OnOffOnOff Advanced Members Posts: 545


    Driver ball speed has been a useful parameter for length off the tee. DJ, Brooks, Rory own the 180+ territory; Cameron Champ now redefines it with 190+ range lol. Tiger post back surgery clocks 180s on occasions. Phil has always been in the low to mid 170s. What happened over the winter break? He's mentioned the core training (blah blah) that laymen wouldn't understand. At 48 (turning 49 in June), he now clocks 180s regularly at the Hope and even down in Monterey in the cold weather. I find this remarkable. Don't you?




    I think Phil has definitely increased speed by a few mph, which is very impressive. A couple of points I would make:
    • Regarding your low to mid 170s ball speed number, that is where he has been recently but he's also been in the high 170s back in the late 2000s.
    • I think his ball speed per Shotlink seems to be right on point (although small sample size) at 176.7mph. Putting him in the top 15% on tour, impressive. With that said, its a 2.5mph jump over last year, not insane, but a 6mph jump over 2017, which is very impressive.
    • On TV, I'm constantly seeing ball speed numbers per TopTracer that appear to be inflated. I see Phil as high as 184 and guys like Rory and DJ in the high 180s. Yet none of them ever register a number that high per Shotlink.
    • His Shotlink swing speed numbers seems to have bad data, with a swing registering 128.15 mph. Same thing happened to Tiger last year when he had a 129mph swing. I don't believe that, especially because they didn't have a corresponding ball speed number. Ignoring that number, he's right at 119 mph, which gels up with his ball speed numbers and is a 3mph improvement over the prior year and 5mph over 2017.




    Very impressive work by Phil. Still hitting it far and putting well, the two things you stop doing when you get old.
  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Advanced Members Posts: 19,799 ✭✭
    He's 48...not dead...
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  • DLiverDLiver Advanced Members Posts: 2,578 ✭✭
    Look at photos of Phil's bag during practice rounds and you will see Super Speed Golf sticks in there. He definitely works on speed when training.
  • tgreenwood11tgreenwood11 Bye bye yips in 2015 Advanced Members Posts: 482
    the longer the swing, the longer the career.
  • CwebbCwebb Advanced Members Posts: 5,847 ✭✭
    Regardless of whatever his actual ball speed is, the man has rekindled his game....and is dangerous in just about any event, including all the majors
  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Advanced Members Posts: 4,994 ✭✭
    edited February 11
    Come on, everyone knows he installed

    a six speed transition in his swing .

    Its has more performance than his older transition.


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff The GOAT Advanced Members Posts: 27,959 ✭✭
    If he hits it far enough outside the California State boundary during the event he can pay less taxes for the weekend.
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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Advanced Members Posts: 7,040 ✭✭


    Driver ball speed has been a useful parameter for length off the tee. DJ, Brooks, Rory own the 180+ territory; Cameron Champ now redefines it with 190+ range lol. Tiger post back surgery clocks 180s on occasions. Phil has always been in the low to mid 170s. What happened over the winter break? He's mentioned the core training (blah blah) that laymen wouldn't understand. At 48 (turning 49 in June), he now clocks 180s regularly at the Hope and even down in Monterey in the cold weather. I find this remarkable. Don't you?


    Super



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  • tideridertiderider Advanced Members Posts: 1,318 ✭✭
    he has openly stated he will swing more for distance than in the past, and will adjust his game/schedule appropriately ... in addition to whatever tech specs/training he's done ... he might be more accurate at the moment, but i doubt that lasts through the year ... given the way the tour sets up courses, good chance it doesn't hurt him at all ...
  • mosesgolfmosesgolf Advanced Members Posts: 6,816 ✭✭
    Now why didn't he do this 15 years ago? image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
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  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,199 ClubWRX
    From 12 years ago....he has a god given move made for speed



    -Chris
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  • MikeskiMikeski ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 298 ClubWRX
    Get the **** cup ready. Phil is juicin'!
  • playar32playar32 Advanced Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    Mikeski wrote:


    Get the **** cup ready. Phil is juicin'!




    All seriousness, I find it funny that other guys do bicep curls and are accused of steroids; however, Phil is older/has his own health problems and it just is what it is.
  • NoFancyUsername.NoFancyUsername. Advanced Members Posts: 445 ✭✭
    edited February 11
    BrianMcG wrote:


    Deer Antler Spray.



    Steroid gum.




    plus Ginger Juice.
  • No Catchy NicknameNo Catchy Nickname Advanced Members Posts: 4,980 ✭✭


    He's 48...not dead...




    Well he will be soon. He's very ill....

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  • mosesgolfmosesgolf Advanced Members Posts: 6,816 ✭✭
    Looks like he opened a can of whup a** on father time.
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  • MarkFromTheUKMarkFromTheUK Advanced Members Posts: 4,638
    It’s the guns.
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  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Advanced Members Posts: 1,502 ✭✭
    edited February 12
    mosesgolf wrote:


    Now why didn't he do this 15 years ago? image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />




    Analytics. Traditional analytics, like fairways hit and greens in regulation, over-emphasize accuracy. Modern analytics (shots gained) have demonstrated pretty conclusively that bomb and gouge is the way to go. He probably just tuned his clubs for distance and decided to let go. I'll bet he's anxious to turn this new philosophy loose on Augusta National.
  • AdmhowarthAdmhowarth ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 387 ClubWRX
    In addition to the swing speed, he has done a lot of core and lower body work. He also has a pretty efficient swing which has always generated a lot of club head speed.



    What’s remarkable is the age difference between PM and most the other players who swing at similar speeds.
  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Advanced Members Posts: 2,040 ✭✭
    edited February 12
    It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.



    I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.
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  • Nard_SNard_S Advanced Members Posts: 3,015 ✭✭
    Great final round this week. Nice to see him bounce back after the lull started at Shinnecock. I like his mentality of hit it hard and don't back off. His swing is old school, which served Watson and Snead just fine. Hope he repeats at Pebble this June.
  • MidwestGolfBumMidwestGolfBum Advanced Members Posts: 1,264 ✭✭


    It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.



    I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.




    Also know very little, but I would guess that their training changes as the years go by to help sustain their bodies for the long term. Of course, it will be very interesting to see if they end up down the injury path and never really come back all the way... Only time will tell.



    I'm also very interesting to hear what those who know more than me have to say on this.
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  • SixtySomePingSixtySomePing Advanced Members Posts: 4,885 ✭✭


    Driver ball speed has been a useful parameter for length off the tee. DJ, Brooks, Rory own the 180+ territory; Cameron Champ now redefines it with 190+ range lol. Tiger post back surgery clocks 180s on occasions. Phil has always been in the low to mid 170s. What happened over the winter break? He's mentioned the core training (blah blah) that laymen wouldn't understand. At 48 (turning 49 in June), he now clocks 180s regularly at the Hope and even down in Monterey in the cold weather. I find this remarkable. Don't you?


    No, not remarkable. I'll be 68 in March, and the only swing speed I've lost happened in my 60's. So at 49, that's really not anything remarkable as long as he has no back trouble. It should be an encouragement to you younger guys, you still have it in you, take advantage of what Phil is doing, it's still possible for you too. Keep working with your accuracy as well, so when you get to be my age and beyond, golf will be just as enjoyable.
  • lspky_muskielspky_muskie Advanced Members Posts: 876 ✭✭
    The SuperSpeed system coupled with a lot of core work, flexibility work, and explosive movements in the gym seem to be the magic bullet. I went from 112 to 98 last year after having my first child a year ago and sitting on my butt a lot. Started back in the gym in August and played a few times per month and didn’t see any speed come back. Started SuperSpeed on Christmas Day, and I was touching 110 last weekend.



  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,199 ClubWRX
    Look at it from this perspective(pun intended)



    Absolutely beautiful, fluid swing that is as long as Bobby Jones....couple that with modern equipment and modern balls, you get a timeless swing...



    -Chris
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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,936 ✭✭



    It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.



    I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.




    Also know very little, but I would guess that their training changes as the years go by to help sustain their bodies for the long term. Of course, it will be very interesting to see if they end up down the injury path and never really come back all the way... Only time will tell.



    I'm also very interesting to hear what those who know more than me have to say on this.




    Why would you think the guys who lift weights will lose flexibility? That's a fallacy. If anything, weight training typically improves range of motion. A strong and fit body is also less prone to injury.



    BTW, I'm fairly certain Phil hits the weights as well. It may not be as obvious due to genetic predisposition/body-type, but he's lifting, stretching, doing speed work, etc...
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  • MidwestGolfBumMidwestGolfBum Advanced Members Posts: 1,264 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:




    It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.



    I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.




    Also know very little, but I would guess that their training changes as the years go by to help sustain their bodies for the long term. Of course, it will be very interesting to see if they end up down the injury path and never really come back all the way... Only time will tell.



    I'm also very interesting to hear what those who know more than me have to say on this.




    Why would you think the guys who lift weights will lose flexibility? That's a fallacy. If anything, weight training typically improves range of motion. A strong and fit body is also less prone to injury.



    BTW, I'm fairly certain Phil hits the weights as well. It may not be as obvious due to genetic predisposition/body-type, but he's lifting, stretching, doing speed work, etc...




    When did I say they would lose flexibility? I just guessed that their workout regimen would change as they age...



    I also don't doubt that nearly every player on Tour is doing some kind of weight training.
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors Posts: 4,813 ✭✭
    It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.
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  • thevaporzthevaporz Advanced Members Posts: 2,796 ✭✭
    ^Yeah, cuz you're an expert. The Tour is juicing the numbers, gtfo.
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors Posts: 4,813 ✭✭
    thevaporz wrote:


    ^Yeah, cuz you're an expert. The Tour is juicing the numbers, gtfo.




    Actually yes I sort of am. Haha. Thanks for noticing. :p
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  • airjammerairjammer Advanced Members Posts: 953 ✭✭
    TollBros wrote:

    thevaporz wrote:


    ^Yeah, cuz you're an expert. The Tour is juicing the numbers, gtfo.




    Actually yes I sort of am. Haha. Thanks for noticing. :p




    I thought they were juicing the numbers as well but after watching the pebble beach coverage...he definitely is hitting farther. I’m not sure if it’s as much as they claim thou.
  • dropkickeddropkicked Advanced Members Posts: 278 ✭✭
    TollBros wrote:


    It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.
    It could actually be that Phil, may have started a Yoga regiment that is allowing him more flexibility and strength while in rotation. Strengthening small twitch fiber muscles along with added rotation and flexibility will allow for a smoother transition and increased speed.

    Martial Arts and Yoga are actually opposite sides of the same coin.. Yin/Yang.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,246 ✭✭
    edited February 20
    TollBros wrote:


    It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.




    Nah. I’ve followed him a long time. He’s always had 2 more gears. Just too wild to use them. I think he’s just found a combo of swing and equipment that lets him go harder at it.



    Besides. I don’t know what chemical will give 10 mph alone anyway? Speed isn’t made in the weight room. Not at the root. It has to be there to be enhanced. I’d say he’s found better sequencing with the weighted speed trainer sticks and he’s able to use the speed he’s always had.
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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Advanced Members Posts: 4,936 ✭✭

    TollBros wrote:


    It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.




    Nah. I’ve followed him a long time. He’s always had 2 more gears. Just too wild to use them. I think he’s just found a combo of swing and equipment that lets him go harder at it.



    Besides. I don’t know what chemical will give 10 mph alone anyway? Speed isn’t made in the weight room. Not at the root. It has to be there to be enhanced. I’d say he’s found better sequencing with the weighted speed trainer sticks and he’s able to use the speed he’s always had.




    Exactly!^^^



    He's definitely pounding it out there as long as anyone right now regardless of the accuracy of SS and BS numbers being stated in the broadcasts
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  • DON SVODON SVO Hacker in progress... Lefty Boomers Posts: 1,046 ✭✭

    TollBros wrote:


    It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.




    Nah. I've followed him a long time. He's always had 2 more gears. Just too wild to use them. I think he's just found a combo of swing and equipment that lets him go harder at it.



    Besides. I don't know what chemical will give 10 mph alone anyway? Speed isn't made in the weight room. Not at the root. It has to be there to be enhanced. I'd say he's found better sequencing with the weighted speed trainer sticks and he's able to use the speed he's always had.




    I mentioned in one of the other "how TF is Phil hitting it so far now?!" threads that I think it was simply a "perfect storm" if you will: he was averaging 120mph club speed as recently as 2010, and dropped noticeably a couple years later (which coincides with when he said the psoriatic arthritis started to really flare up). He's been in the gym, doing martial arts, stretching, eating better, and is on a medicinal regimen that seems to have helped reel in the psoriatic arthritis. I have no reason to believe that he couldn't be feeling a lot better after years of therapy and fitness and is therefore swinging freer, and tapping the 120 mark with regularity.
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  • vanillafunk616vanillafunk616 Advanced Members Posts: 551
    edited February 20
    At his age he could qualify for TRT use and exemption. That's essentially like doctor supervised steroid use. The launch monitors being juiced for entertainment purposes is also a high probability.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • provxprovx Advanced Members Posts: 819 ✭✭
    Aside from the speed training you also have to remember he has psoriatic arthritis and could be managing it better at this period of time.



    You’ll notice he has been wearing short sleaves more often, meaning he isn’t broke out with symptoms.



    In years past he routinely wore long sleeves even on hot days due to rashes from the psoriatic arthritis.



    No arthritis flare up could be 5 mph swing speed easy.
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  • QManyQMany #TheWRX ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 9,001 ClubWRX
    I don't think the ProTracer numbers used for TV are very accurate. For example, I believe they showed JB at 187 MPH on 17 and then 170 MPH on 18. I would put more faith in the Trackman-recorded numbers used on the Tour's website.
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  • OnOffOnOff Advanced Members Posts: 545
    QMany wrote:


    I don't think the ProTracer numbers used for TV are very accurate. For example, I believe they showed JB at 187 MPH on 17 and then 170 MPH on 18. I would put more faith in the Trackman-recorded numbers used on the Tour's website.




    I agree, I said something similar earlier in the thread. I could see 187 from JB 10 years ago but he's not as crazy long (still long) as he used to be. I think he can still touch the low 180s though. The 170 number made sense, he hit some type of low punch cut type of shot, so probably took something off it.
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 14,340 ClubWRX
    I don’t know about the numbers television is showing us, no idea. But didn’t he fly it on #10 at Riveria with a 3 wood. 285 yards (although we don’t know of that is accurate either).
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