"Some of this new crop of players could have gone professional in other sports but chose golf"

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  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dave230 said:

    @cdnglf said:

    @Dave230 said:

    @Wesquire said:

    @straightshot7 said:

    @mjen43 said:
    Koepka admitted himself he wasn’t good at baseball, which is why he turned to golf.

    DJ would have to play PG in the NBA because he is short for a basketball player (lol good luck with that).

    Nobody on tour could play any other sport professionally, or they would have. Golf doesn’t pay well enough for a real athlete to choose it over other major sports.

    Malarkey when you factor in endorsements and longevity.

    A top golfer has higher earning potential than any top football, basketball, baseball, hockey player because their career can last 40 years and they are prime endorsers.

    LeBron's career earnings + endorsements are like $2 billion

    LeBron is a once in a generation transcendent athlete, the only person worth comparing to him is Tiger, who I imagine has/had comparable wealth. Let's not pretend that golf is not incredibly well paid at the top level.

    And I'd rather be a Charles Howell knocking out 2 or 3m a year under very little scrutiny to a starter at a top sport team and the pressure that brings. Howell can also keep going until he's 50 and then continue making good money on a Champions Tour where other sports have players done not long after 30.

    Charles Howell is 19th on the pga tour career money list with $38m in official money. Incredibly well-paid? Sure. As well paid as guys in the big four North American leagues? Not even close.

    19th on the career MLB earnings list is Ryan Howard, at $180M. 19th on the NBA list is Luol Deng, at $156M. NFL, Trent Williams, $95M. NHL, Patrice Bergeron, $84M. The difference is vast, and nowhere near offset by endorsements, longer careers, or the relative chump change of the Champions Tour.

    Also, the team sports have more and better-paying management, coaching, and broadcasting jobs for ex-players. I mean... there are probably more NFL “analysts” alone than there are Champions Tour cards.

    Forbes list of best paid sportspeople of all-time has 4 golfers in the top 6 (Tiger, Palmer, Nicklaus and Mickelson) alongside Jordan and Schumacher. The earning long-term potential of golf is very lucrative and accumulates over the years if you're smart with it. Tiger is behind Jordan but he probably cost himself $400-500m with injuries and the **** scandal, if he'd had a more durable career like Mickelson (with the same number of wins Tiger has) in the top 50 for 25 years he would have been miles ahead.

    That's the top .1% - for the rank and file, there is more money in team sports. Look at what the 10th man is making in the NBA ... And he's comparable to the 300th ranked golfer in the world. And it's better in MLB and the NFL.

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  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,189 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 1:40pm #33
  • Dave230Dave230 Members Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a weird obsession with golfers being athletes or at least being portrayed as them on TV. Lowry proved at The Open that it's still mainly a skill-based sport, he's not got the physique of an athlete but he has the hand-eye coordination and skill level that a lot of other sportspeople would dream of having and he doesn't need to bench press how many pounds to do it.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd say of the pro sports (traditional sports, not olympic sports or videuh games) baseball, hockey, basketball - though very limited (PG's in the mold of JJ Reddick or John Stockton), tennis and soccer/futball.

    I agree with the person that posted about pulling kids who could be good HS sports players out of those sports. There are a mess load of guys hobbling around our town with "old football (american) injuries" that only played at the HS level. I played HS baseball and could have played NAIA or D3 baseball. My knees are trashed from catching from about 11yo till I graduated. I am gently trying to push my oldest daughter into golf and soccer. She is fairly athletic no older than she is and I see those two sports as least likely to create long-term injuries and might accidentally help her in college and later in life. My sister played D1 softball. Her shoulder is shot and she isn't playing pro women's softball now. I see no reason to get my daughter into softball or baseball.

  • Bluefan75Bluefan75 Members Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The thing is, golf is like tennis, only not quite as bad: you need to be among the top 100 or so to make money, you need to pay for all your travel, coaching, etc. out of those earnings, and there are no guaranteed contracts. You have to perform constantly, or else. Sure CHIII has made $38 million over 20 years, but what has he netted from that?

    Now take a talented athlete who can go in most any direction. Under that circumstance, which sports are you choosing? The team sports. I think there are a number of guys who, had they played golf instead as their primary focus, could easily have been on the tour. If Romo or Curry, or back in the day Rick Rhoden or Dan Quinn put the time they put into their sport into golf instead, I'm not so sure they aren't on tour for a while. DJ may not have played hoops, but could he have been a tight end, or something. It's tough to say, but it does seem that fewer guys would be not golfers than other athletes would be golfers.

  • Ole3wiggleOle3wiggle Members Posts: 260 ✭✭✭✭

    @Dave230 said:
    There is a weird obsession with golfers being athletes or at least being portrayed as them on TV. Lowry proved at The Open that it's still mainly a skill-based sport, he's not got the physique of an athlete but he has the hand-eye coordination and skill level that a lot of other sportspeople would dream of having and he doesn't need to bench press how many pounds to do it.

    I tend to agree with this. Golf is just a game. It's like darts or pool. At the top level its mostly based on intellect & skill. Obviously being fit/strong can help you in golf (However, look at Rory who's prolly 5'9'' and 170 lbs and yet he can hit it further than almost anybody). You don't need to be a physical specimen to win on the PGA TOUR.

  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ole3wiggle said:

    @Dave230 said:
    There is a weird obsession with golfers being athletes or at least being portrayed as them on TV. Lowry proved at The Open that it's still mainly a skill-based sport, he's not got the physique of an athlete but he has the hand-eye coordination and skill level that a lot of other sportspeople would dream of having and he doesn't need to bench press how many pounds to do it.

    I tend to agree with this. Golf is just a game. It's like darts or pool. At the top level its mostly based on intellect & skill. Obviously being fit/strong can help you in golf (However, look at Rory who's prolly 5'9'' and 170 lbs and yet he can hit it further than almost anybody). You don't need to be a physical specimen to win on the PGA TOUR.

    You have to be somewhat strong and flexible in all the right places to hit it like Rory. Also very good hand/eye coordination. It is a special skill set.

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  • EvTECEvTEC Members Posts: 13 ✭✭


    DL for the XFL.

  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,446 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 3:34pm #40

    @Dave230 said:

    @cdnglf said:

    @Dave230 said:

    @Wesquire said:

    @straightshot7 said:

    @mjen43 said:
    Koepka admitted himself he wasn’t good at baseball, which is why he turned to golf.

    DJ would have to play PG in the NBA because he is short for a basketball player (lol good luck with that).

    Nobody on tour could play any other sport professionally, or they would have. Golf doesn’t pay well enough for a real athlete to choose it over other major sports.

    Malarkey when you factor in endorsements and longevity.

    A top golfer has higher earning potential than any top football, basketball, baseball, hockey player because their career can last 40 years and they are prime endorsers.

    LeBron's career earnings + endorsements are like $2 billion

    LeBron is a once in a generation transcendent athlete, the only person worth comparing to him is Tiger, who I imagine has/had comparable wealth. Let's not pretend that golf is not incredibly well paid at the top level.

    And I'd rather be a Charles Howell knocking out 2 or 3m a year under very little scrutiny to a starter at a top sport team and the pressure that brings. Howell can also keep going until he's 50 and then continue making good money on a Champions Tour where other sports have players done not long after 30.

    Charles Howell is 19th on the pga tour career money list with $38m in official money. Incredibly well-paid? Sure. As well paid as guys in the big four North American leagues? Not even close.

    19th on the career MLB earnings list is Ryan Howard, at $180M. 19th on the NBA list is Luol Deng, at $156M. NFL, Trent Williams, $95M. NHL, Patrice Bergeron, $84M. The difference is vast, and nowhere near offset by endorsements, longer careers, or the relative chump change of the Champions Tour.

    Also, the team sports have more and better-paying management, coaching, and broadcasting jobs for ex-players. I mean... there are probably more NFL “analysts” alone than there are Champions Tour cards.

    Forbes list of best paid sportspeople of all-time has 4 golfers in the top 6 (Tiger, Palmer, Nicklaus and Mickelson) alongside Jordan and Schumacher. The earning long-term potential of golf is very lucrative and accumulates over the years if you're smart with it. Tiger is behind Jordan but he probably cost himself $400-500m with injuries and the **** scandal, if he'd had a more durable career like Mickelson (with the same number of wins Tiger has) in the top 50 for 25 years he would have been miles ahead.

    Arnie/Jack/Phil/Tiger is a once in a generation transcendent athlete...

    If you’re the top golfer of your time, yes you can earn as much or more than the top guys in the other sports. There are a handful of guys at the top who get almost all the endorsement money. But after that, it falls off very quickly. Charles Howell doesn’t have a drink deal, and nobody is anchoring real estate projects with CH3-designed courses.

    Fundamentally, the team sports are just way bigger businesses than golf. The NHL, which is the smallest, has 31 teams paying an average of about $75M/year in salary. That’s over $2.25B/year. The total PGA Tour purse (incl FedEx Cup bonuses and majors) is at best maybe a quarter of that, probably less.

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,503 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 3:47pm #41

    It is strange that the announcers as of late want to drone on and on about the top golfers being incredible athletes, it comes across as quite bromance-ish
    .... because a guy actually has ok biceps?

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  • golfandfishinggolfandfishing Members Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    A lot of guys in other sports don’t have the physique for it either. The Goodyear Kemp, Refrigerator Perry and about thousand other athletes in MLB, NBA, NFL have been overweight. Some have even dropped dead while practicing.

    @Dave230 said:
    There is a weird obsession with golfers being athletes or at least being portrayed as them on TV. Lowry proved at The Open that it's still mainly a skill-based sport, he's not got the physique of an athlete but he has the hand-eye coordination and skill level that a lot of other sportspeople would dream of having and he doesn't need to bench press how many pounds to do it.

  • WesquireWesquire Members Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lagavulin62 said:
    Why all the disrespect? BK, DJ, and prob even Rory would be star linebackers anywhere in the NFL. Golf gives them more time to spend with family at the best resorts worldwide. It’s not just about them.

    I'm hoping that was a joke

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  • WesquireWesquire Members Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 4:47pm #45

    @SavageCy said:

    @Wesquire said:

    @PZero said:
    That was originally in a PGA Tour commercial regarding Rickie Fowler and being a pro motocross rider.

    Is that considered a sport?

    I'd say its more a sport than the "esports" AKA playing video games you were > @bladehunter said:

    @Wesquire said:

    @PZero said:
    That was originally in a PGA Tour commercial regarding Rickie Fowler and being a pro motocross rider.

    Is that considered a sport?

    Lol. More so than video games. And has been for 40-50 years.
    @Wesquire said:

    @PZero said:
    That was originally in a PGA Tour commercial regarding Rickie Fowler and being a pro motocross rider.

    Is that considered a sport?

    Video games = sport
    Motocross = not a sport

    I didn't say esports were a sport. I even contrasted it against "real sports". I don't consider either of them a sport.

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  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @straightshot7 said:

    @Wesquire said:

    @straightshot7 said:

    @mjen43 said:
    Koepka admitted himself he wasn’t good at baseball, which is why he turned to golf.

    DJ would have to play PG in the NBA because he is short for a basketball player (lol good luck with that).

    Nobody on tour could play any other sport professionally, or they would have. Golf doesn’t pay well enough for a real athlete to choose it over other major sports.

    Malarkey when you factor in endorsements and longevity.

    A top golfer has higher earning potential than any top football, basketball, baseball, hockey player because their career can last 40 years and they are prime endorsers.

    LeBron's career earnings + endorsements are like $2 billion

    You mean 40 years from now?

    They aren't even close to that right now....reportedly he will go over $1 billion once his Laker contract is paid out. Where did you get $2 billion?

    But obviously I'm talking about the average top player, not #1 from each sport. Though Tiger is more than all of them if you want to go there.

    I didn't mean to say "any" or mean it literally. I know LeBron makes a lot of money. But what I meant is over the course of their entire career, a top golfer will make more than a comparable level player of another sport.

    min salary for an nba player in his 5th year is about 2 million ... that's min for any player, not a starter or important role player, which every team has ... no golfer outside about 5-8 is bringing in tons of endorsement money ...

  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lagavulin62 said:
    Why all the disrespect? BK, DJ, and prob even Rory would be star linebackers anywhere in the NFL. Golf gives them more time to spend with family at the best resorts worldwide. It’s not just about them.

    this a troll? ...

  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,189 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 4:59pm #48

    @golfandfishing said:
    A lot of guys in other sports don’t have the physique for it either. The Goodyear Kemp, Refrigerator Perry and about thousand other athletes in MLB, NBA, NFL have been overweight. Some have even dropped dead while practicing.

    @Dave230 said:
    There is a weird obsession with golfers being athletes or at least being portrayed as them on TV. Lowry proved at The Open that it's still mainly a skill-based sport, he's not got the physique of an athlete but he has the hand-eye coordination and skill level that a lot of other sportspeople would dream of having and he doesn't need to bench press how many pounds to do it.

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  • WesquireWesquire Members Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    DJ gets talked about like a workout freak and he still looks like he'd struggle to max 225lbs on bench press.

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  • golfandfishinggolfandfishing Members Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    My point exactly- physique does not define athletic ability.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 5:03pm #51

    Talking about money not being there unless you are at the top, you guys think Luke Donald, Patton Kizzire or Seamus Power's kids are missing meals? Is it Tiger money? Nope. Is it more than the average **** who is breaking rocks? You betcha.

  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,189 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @golfandfishing said:
    My point exactly- physique does not define athletic ability.

    Yes, agree. A great baseball pitcher can be overweight, you barely have to run, if at all. I think there are guys that, had they been immersed in baseball as early as golf and stuck with it, could have been MLB. Similar kinetic chain type moves, if that's the right word, in baseball and golf.

  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,189 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 5:22pm #53
  • doublehansdoublehans Members Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 5:10pm #54

    Just figured I'd add to this that Hale Irwin was an all-conference defensive back at Colorado, so its not like the tour hasn't had good athletes in the past. There are probably a number of guys that would have had some chance at other sports, but as an athlete you just have to make choices.

  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Get out of the 50/60s commentators you sound like my Grandma....."OH MY look at Billys muscles you could be an astronaut"

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  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,446 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 5:26pm #56

    Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer
    Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career
    Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.
    Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.
    Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.
    Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick
    Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

    Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,189 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @cdnglf said:
    Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer
    Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career
    Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.
    Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.
    Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.
    Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick
    Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

    Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,446 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 5:38pm #58

    @bscinstnct said:

    @cdnglf said:
    Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer
    Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career
    Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.
    Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.
    Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.
    Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick
    Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

    Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

    Good one! Also:

    Who is actually a triple-threat, if you consider brokering nuclear peace talks a sport.

  • SixcatSixcat SWVAMembers Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 31, 2019 5:42pm #59

    @HackerD said:
    Gary Woodland is another mentioned as very athletic, and played D2 basketball. He was not close to being NBA talent, though.

    I heard Woodland on a podcast a few weeks after the US Open. He was asked a question along the lines of "What made you decide to ditch basketball riches for golf?" His reply was something like "The first time I had to guard Kirk Hinrich, I knew I didn't have a future in basketball! There was another level and I didn't have it!"

  • WesquireWesquire Members Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sixcat said:

    @HackerD said:
    Gary Woodland is another mentioned as very athletic, and played D2 basketball. He was not close to being NBA talent, though.

    I heard Woodland on a podcast a few weeks after the US Open. He was asked a question along the lines of "What made you decide to ditch basketball riches for golf?" His reply was something like "The first time I had to guard Kirk Hinrich, I knew I didn't have a future in basketball! There was another level and I didn't have it!"

    Basketball is easily the hardest of the major team sports to have a successful pro career in.

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  • MidwestGolfBumMidwestGolfBum Corporate Golfer Extraordinaire MSN/MKE/DSMMembers Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:
    I'd say of the pro sports (traditional sports, not olympic sports or videuh games) baseball, hockey, basketball - though very limited (PG's in the mold of JJ Reddick or John Stockton), tennis and soccer/futball.

    I agree with the person that posted about pulling kids who could be good HS sports players out of those sports. There are a mess load of guys hobbling around our town with "old football (american) injuries" that only played at the HS level. I played HS baseball and could have played NAIA or D3 baseball. My knees are trashed from catching from about 11yo till I graduated. I am gently trying to push my oldest daughter into golf and soccer. She is fairly athletic no older than she is and I see those two sports as least likely to create long-term injuries and might accidentally help her in college and later in life. My sister played D1 softball. Her shoulder is shot and she isn't playing pro women's softball now. I see no reason to get my daughter into softball or baseball.

    Not to detract from the actual thread, but as somebody who played high level soccer for many, many years, you're certainly not doing your body a whole lot of favors. I have had 4 knee surgeries, an ankle surgery, have issues with my feet because of fractures and breaks, and have issues with hips because of all the running, pivoting, kicking, getting stepped on, etc. that goes in to the sport at a higher level. I also have had countless concussions playing over the years, as have a pretty large number of the people who play. If you are looking for something that isn't hard on the body, soccer isn't going to be the sport if she wants/gets to play at a higher level. Now, I was able to travel the world while playing and have made some friendships that have lasted years so I have people to go and visit all over Europe, Asia, and Australia now, which is amazing. Take all of that as you wish.

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