Kirkland Signature (Costco) golf balls (MERGED) (NO BST POSTS)

[bladehunter]

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > @DavePelz4,

> > >

> > > Sorry to rub it in, but:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have my own way of cooking these bad boys, but feel free to PM with any recipes/methods you use. :smile:

> >

> > Sorry. But I just noticed. $85??? I’d there a hoof hidden under there somewhere ?

>

> Haha, no. But, Costco meat is worth every penny. Every. Penny.

 

Goodness. I’m a bit of a foodie , as in I’m an amateur chef at heart and literally do 99.9999% of the cooking in my house which is at least 4 days a week. I have a source for local farm raised bison , beef and chicken. ( bison burgers are to die for as an aside and less fat too ) the beef does carry the prime designation and is grass fed and not frozen. I don’t know ribeyes well as I personally hate the cut ( not a marble fan) but I can get 4 lbs of filets cheaper than that. By a lot. But I guess it comes down to personal taste. I wouldn’t pay $20 for all that fat and gristle. Lol. But that’s purely my opinion. I’m sure it’s a competitive price , guess i just expected much cheaper at Costco.

[Philomathesq]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Philomathesq said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > @DavePelz4,

> > > >

> > > > Sorry to rub it in, but:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I have my own way of cooking these bad boys, but feel free to PM with any recipes/methods you use. :smile:

> > >

> > > Sorry. But I just noticed. $85??? I’d there a hoof hidden under there somewhere ?

> >

> > Haha, no. But, Costco meat is worth every penny. Every. Penny.

>

> Goodness. I’m a bit of a foodie , as in I’m an amateur chef at heart and literally do 99.9999% of the cooking in my house which is at least 4 days a week. I have a source for local farm raised bison , beef and chicken. ( bison burgers are to die for as an aside and less fat too ) the beef does carry the prime designation and is grass fed and not frozen. I don’t know ribeyes well as I personally hate the cut ( not a marble fan) but I can get 4 lbs of filets cheaper than that. By a lot. But I guess it comes down to personal taste. I wouldn’t pay $20 for all that fat and gristle. Lol.

 

I hear you on the amateur chef thing; I had an interesting childhood and basically had to learn to cook when I was 9 or I wasn't going to eat. Ever since then, I've been cooking like a mad scientist in the kitchen. Unlike you, though, I do not like filets and instead prefer ribeyes. With the ribeye caps you see above, there actually isn't any gristle, it's all meat (and fat). But, cook the steaks in an immersion circulator reach ultimately ends up melting the fat which then gets absorbed into the meat. Ribeye caps, when cooked properly, are glorious.

 

Also, bison meat is awesome (both from a taste and health perspective). I'm not as much of a fan of buffalo cheese, but it isn't bad.

[bladehunter]

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > > @DavePelz4,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry to rub it in, but:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I have my own way of cooking these bad boys, but feel free to PM with any recipes/methods you use. :smile:

> > > >

> > > > Sorry. But I just noticed. $85??? I’d there a hoof hidden under there somewhere ?

> > >

> > > Haha, no. But, Costco meat is worth every penny. Every. Penny.

> >

> > Goodness. I’m a bit of a foodie , as in I’m an amateur chef at heart and literally do 99.9999% of the cooking in my house which is at least 4 days a week. I have a source for local farm raised bison , beef and chicken. ( bison burgers are to die for as an aside and less fat too ) the beef does carry the prime designation and is grass fed and not frozen. I don’t know ribeyes well as I personally hate the cut ( not a marble fan) but I can get 4 lbs of filets cheaper than that. By a lot. But I guess it comes down to personal taste. I wouldn’t pay $20 for all that fat and gristle. Lol.

>

> I hear you on the amateur chef thing; I had an interesting childhood and basically had to learn to cook when I was 9 or I wasn't going to eat. Ever since then, I've been cooking like a mad scientist in the kitchen. Unlike you, though, I do not like filets and instead prefer ribeyes. With the ribeye caps you see above, there actually isn't any gristle, it's all meat (and fat). But, cook the steaks in an immersion circulator reach ultimately ends up melting the fat which then gets absorbed into the meat. Ribeye caps, when cooked properly, are glorious.

>

> Also, bison meat is awesome (both from a taste and health perspective). I'm not as much of a fan of buffalo cheese, but it isn't bad.

 

High five on the “ learn to cook or don’t eat “ brother. Me too. Truth is I’m an ocd wreck that just can’t be suited often. So I suit myself. Lol.

 

I hadn’t thought of cooking them that way. Makes sense. Sort of like one of my favorite dishes. Rouladen .

 

If you’re not familiar. It’s a German dish which is simple. But oh so good. You take a cheap flank , or breakfast steak. Thin sliced and long. Maybe 14 or so inches by 5. Salt and pepper , a brown mustard and a thick strip of bacon are laid/spread on the steak. And then it’s rolled up tight and held in a roll by tooth picks or skewers. Make a pan of 10 or so of these. Place in deep casserole dish and cover very tight , along with enough beef broth to cover , and cook slow for 2 hours or so.

 

Melts the fat as you say. And when it comes out that cheap cut of meat is fork cut tender. Serve with real fresh mashed potatoes. It’s blue collar food. But your family will beg for it. Makes about a gallon of gravy in the end. And reheats excellent for next days lunch.

 

( sorry for the Martha Stewart moment. Lol).

[Bill Broderick]

While reading an article about how Costco is getting onto the business of raising their own chickens for their $4.99 rotisserie chickens, I came across a link to another article about t[he Kirkland brand](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/business/costco-kirkland-signature-brand/index.html "he Kirkland brand") and how critical is it to the success of Costco. To some extent, the article explains why Costco made the quick decision to refund every customer who bought the new version of the 4-piece balls. Such a large percentage of their sales (and memberships) are driven by the Kirkland brand. If people lose confidence in that brand, it could have a huge impact on Costco.

 

"In its annual securities filing, Costco warns investors that sales and profit margin would suffer if Kirkland "experiences a loss of member acceptance or confidence. Rivals do not have similar warnings for a single brand, a sign of Costco's reliance on the brand. "

[zebra2955]

> @"Bill Broderick" said:

> While reading an article about how Costco is getting onto the business of raising their own chickens for their $4.99 rotisserie chickens, I came across a link to another article about t[he Kirkland brand](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/business/costco-kirkland-signature-brand/index.html "he Kirkland brand") and how critical is it to the success of Costco. To some extent, the article explains why Costco made the quick decision to refund every customer who bought the new version of the 4-piece balls. Such a large percentage of their sales (and memberships) are driven by the Kirkland brand. If people lose confidence in that brand, it could have a huge impact on Costco.

>

> "In its annual securities filing, Costco warns investors that sales and profit margin would suffer if Kirkland "experiences a loss of member acceptance or confidence. Rivals do not have similar warnings for a single brand, a sign of Costco's reliance on the brand. "

 

Intereresting read. I guess it really shows how much Costco values the name "Kirkland Signature" . I know most of the things I buy at Costco are Kirkland. The bottled water comes out to 7.5 cents a bottle can't find good quality water for that price.

[Girevik]

> @zebra2955 said:

 

> Intereresting read. I guess it really shows how much Costco values the name "Kirkland Signature"

 

This is exactly why I, and many others, have said we wouldn't hesitate to buy the ball if it came out again. Call me a blind loyalist if you want, but I know the eastern Costco puts into the Kirkland name and am confident if the ball is back it means they resolved the issues.

 

 

[bladehunter]

Here’s the article from above I think. Interesting read. Will be more interesting to see if the farmers end up being on the losing end to help eat the cost associated with he $4.99 rotisserie bird.

 

Let’s hope not. But definitely reads like the local farms are shouldering a lot of the risk , which I suppose means they could also potentially win big too ?

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/11/business/costco-5-dollar-chicken/index.html

[torbill]

Been reading through the comments that have been made since my epistle on Costco business fundamentals. I have a few more things to mention:

 

If you want data on Kirkland Signature brand performance go to Amazon and search on ‘Kirkland Signature’, and see what people think about the Costco house brand products.

 

As to golf balls, I have no idea where Costco goes from here, except that if they want to be in the business they are going to be in the business and they are going to do it well. The notion that they can’t control the quality and performance of a golf ball because it is technical is silly. Let me provide a couple of real world examples of Costco putting its brand on technical products:

 

Eyewear is technical. The leaders are companies like Essilor, Hoya, Nikon, and Zeiss. For years Costco sold so-so progressive bifocals at an attractive price. For whatever reason, they vertically integrated lens production a few years ago by having their own operation in San Diego. Now they produce first rate (not the best, but very good) digital progressives and sell them at a fraction - say 20-25% - of what the bigs charge.

 

Hearing aids are technical. The leaders are companies like Oticon, Phonak, Signa/Rexton, and GN Resound. A pair of premium digital hearing aids from a place like Beltone will set you back, say, six grand large. Costco has been selling premium Kirkland Sig hearing aids for a long time. They get them from the bigs in the industry (slightly de-featured so as to not entirely screw-up the traditional distribution channels of the bigs), changing from one supplier to another as needed. I became aware at the time of the KS 4, which was made by Rexton. Then there was the 5, the 6, the 7, the 8, now the 9. The KS 4 was $2K. The KS 5 was $1900. Then the 6 at $1800. And so forth. The KS 9 is made by Phonak and sells for $1500, and there isn’t a higher quality hearing aid in the industry than Phonak. And the Beltone’s of the world are still selling them at six grand large. And Costco provides better warranties than most, and Costco provides unlimited service just like the high priced people. And Costco provides a no-questions asked, 6 month full refund if you don’t like the product - and I don’t know of *anybody* else who does that.

 

The idea that golf balls are somehow high tech is ludicrous. Anybody here think that a golf ball is anywhere as technical as a modern digital hearing aid? I would guess that I have more engineering degrees than Dean Snell (who has designed a great golf ball, incidentally, kudo’s to Dean, I buy them and love them), and I say that golf balls are not rocket engineering. Yes, they have a lot of technical content and yes they have significant manufacturing challenges, but no rocket engineering required.

 

Does anybody here believe that Costco couldn’t make a golf ball designer like a Dean Snell an offer that he couldn’t refuse, should they want to be in the premium golf ball business and need capability to design balls and work with a foundry? Does anybody here believe that Costco lacks the resources to buy all or part of a TaylorMade and crank out great Kirkland Sig golf balls like crazy?

 

If Costco wants to be in the business of selling tour quality golf balls there isn’t any question in my mind that they lack the resources or the know-how to make it happen. Do they want to do it? I haven’t the faintest idea...

 

[gioreeko]

> @torbill said:

> Been reading through the comments that have been made since my epistle on Costco business fundamentals. I have a few more things to mention:

>

> If you want data on Kirkland Signature brand performance go to Amazon and search on ‘Kirkland Signature’, and see what people think about the Costco house brand products.

>

> As to golf balls, I have no idea where Costco goes from here, except that if they want to be in the business they are going to be in the business and they are going to do it well. The notion that they can’t control the quality and performance of a golf ball because it is technical is silly. Let me provide a couple of real world examples of Costco putting its brand on technical products:

>

> Eyewear is technical. The leaders are companies like Essilor, Hoya, Nikon, and Zeiss. For years Costco sold so-so progressive bifocals at an attractive price. For whatever reason, they vertically integrated lens production a few years ago by having their own operation in San Diego. Now they produce first rate (not the best, but very good) digital progressives and sell them at a fraction - say 20-25% - of what the bigs charge.

>

> Hearing aids are technical. The leaders are companies like Oticon, Phonak, Signa/Rexton, and GN Resound. A pair of premium digital hearing aids from a place like Beltone will set you back, say, six grand large. Costco has been selling premium Kirkland Sig hearing aids for a long time. They get them from the bigs in the industry (slightly de-featured so as to not entirely screw-up the traditional distribution channels of the bigs), changing from one supplier to another as needed. I became aware at the time of the KS 4, which was made by Rexton. Then there was the 5, the 6, the 7, the 8, now the 9. The KS 4 was $2K. The KS 5 was $1900. Then the 6 at $1800. And so forth. The KS 9 is made by Phonak and sells for $1500, and there isn’t a higher quality hearing aid in the industry than Phonak. And the Beltone’s of the world are still selling them at six grand large. And Costco provides better warranties than most, and Costco provides unlimited service just like the high priced people. And Costco provides a no-questions asked, 6 month full refund if you don’t like the product - and I don’t know of *anybody* else who does that.

>

> The idea that golf balls are somehow high tech is ludicrous. Anybody here think that a golf ball is anywhere as technical as a modern digital hearing aid? I would guess that I have more engineering degrees than Dean Snell (who has designed a great golf ball, incidentally, kudo’s to Dean, I buy them and love them), and I say that golf balls are not rocket engineering. Yes, they have a lot of technical content and yes they have significant manufacturing challenges, but no rocket engineering required.

>

> Does anybody here believe that Costco couldn’t make a golf ball designer like a Dean Snell an offer that he couldn’t refuse, should they want to be in the premium golf ball business and need capability to design balls and work with a foundry? Does anybody here believe that Costco lacks the resources to buy all or part of a TaylorMade and crank out great Kirkland Sig golf balls like crazy?

>

> If Costco wants to be in the business of selling tour quality golf balls there isn’t any question in my mind that they lack the resources or the know-how to make it happen. Do they want to do it? I haven’t the faintest idea...

>

 

I've been wearing contact lenses since I was a teenager, and tried the Kirkland brand about two years ago when they came out, and have never worn a more comfortable lens. Their daily lenses last days if you don't sleep in them, they're by far the best I've ever worn.

[Bill Broderick]

> @bladehunter said:

> Here’s the article from above I think. Interesting read. Will be more interesting to see if the farmers end up being on the losing end to help eat the cost associated with he $4.99 rotisserie bird.

>

> Let’s hope not. But definitely reads like the local farms are shouldering a lot of the risk , which I suppose means they could also potentially win big too ?

>

> https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/11/business/costco-5-dollar-chicken/index.html

 

There is a documentary series about various food industries on Netflix called "Rotten". One of the episodes in Season 1 was on the Chicken production industry. As huge companies have essentially cornered the market on poultry processing plants, growers have become beholden to them, at a great cost. The documentary is worth a watch.

 

Costco has historically been a pretty socially conscious company (certainly more so than the Purdue's and Tyson's of the world). I have a hard time believing that the growers that work for Costco won't do better than the growers who work for other players in the industry. The real question is whether they will do better as chicken farmers, long term, than they can do as the grower of crops.

[ZNDavis]

Anyone else perfectly happy restocking the 5A K-sigs (tour performance) and playing those for the next few years? Only drawback for me is durability issues (scuffing with normal shots), but even then it's not a stretch to get a full round or two per ball. Just got 5 dozen for ~$40 and I'm set for a while

[bladehunter]

> @torbill said:

> Been reading through the comments that have been made since my epistle on Costco business fundamentals. I have a few more things to mention:

>

> If you want data on Kirkland Signature brand performance go to Amazon and search on ‘Kirkland Signature’, and see what people think about the Costco house brand products.

>

> As to golf balls, I have no idea where Costco goes from here, except that if they want to be in the business they are going to be in the business and they are going to do it well. The notion that they can’t control the quality and performance of a golf ball because it is technical is silly. Let me provide a couple of real world examples of Costco putting its brand on technical products:

>

> Eyewear is technical. The leaders are companies like Essilor, Hoya, Nikon, and Zeiss. For years Costco sold so-so progressive bifocals at an attractive price. For whatever reason, they vertically integrated lens production a few years ago by having their own operation in San Diego. Now they produce first rate (not the best, but very good) digital progressives and sell them at a fraction - say 20-25% - of what the bigs charge.

>

> Hearing aids are technical. The leaders are companies like Oticon, Phonak, Signa/Rexton, and GN Resound. A pair of premium digital hearing aids from a place like Beltone will set you back, say, six grand large. Costco has been selling premium Kirkland Sig hearing aids for a long time. They get them from the bigs in the industry (slightly de-featured so as to not entirely screw-up the traditional distribution channels of the bigs), changing from one supplier to another as needed. I became aware at the time of the KS 4, which was made by Rexton. Then there was the 5, the 6, the 7, the 8, now the 9. The KS 4 was $2K. The KS 5 was $1900. Then the 6 at $1800. And so forth. The KS 9 is made by Phonak and sells for $1500, and there isn’t a higher quality hearing aid in the industry than Phonak. And the Beltone’s of the world are still selling them at six grand large. And Costco provides better warranties than most, and Costco provides unlimited service just like the high priced people. And Costco provides a no-questions asked, 6 month full refund if you don’t like the product - and I don’t know of *anybody* else who does that.

>

> The idea that golf balls are somehow high tech is ludicrous. Anybody here think that a golf ball is anywhere as technical as a modern digital hearing aid? I would guess that I have more engineering degrees than Dean Snell (who has designed a great golf ball, incidentally, kudo’s to Dean, I buy them and love them), and I say that golf balls are not rocket engineering. Yes, they have a lot of technical content and yes they have significant manufacturing challenges, but no rocket engineering required.

>

> Does anybody here believe that Costco couldn’t make a golf ball designer like a Dean Snell an offer that he couldn’t refuse, should they want to be in the premium golf ball business and need capability to design balls and work with a foundry? Does anybody here believe that Costco lacks the resources to buy all or part of a TaylorMade and crank out great Kirkland Sig golf balls like crazy?

>

> If Costco wants to be in the business of selling tour quality golf balls there isn’t any question in my mind that they lack the resources or the know-how to make it happen. Do they want to do it? I haven’t the faintest idea...

>

 

> @torbill said:

> Been reading through the comments that have been made since my epistle on Costco business fundamentals. I have a few more things to mention:

>

> If you want data on Kirkland Signature brand performance go to Amazon and search on ‘Kirkland Signature’, and see what people think about the Costco house brand products.

>

> As to golf balls, I have no idea where Costco goes from here, except that if they want to be in the business they are going to be in the business and they are going to do it well. The notion that they can’t control the quality and performance of a golf ball because it is technical is silly. Let me provide a couple of real world examples of Costco putting its brand on technical products:

>

> Eyewear is technical. The leaders are companies like Essilor, Hoya, Nikon, and Zeiss. For years Costco sold so-so progressive bifocals at an attractive price. For whatever reason, they vertically integrated lens production a few years ago by having their own operation in San Diego. Now they produce first rate (not the best, but very good) digital progressives and sell them at a fraction - say 20-25% - of what the bigs charge.

>

> Hearing aids are technical. The leaders are companies like Oticon, Phonak, Signa/Rexton, and GN Resound. A pair of premium digital hearing aids from a place like Beltone will set you back, say, six grand large. Costco has been selling premium Kirkland Sig hearing aids for a long time. They get them from the bigs in the industry (slightly de-featured so as to not entirely screw-up the traditional distribution channels of the bigs), changing from one supplier to another as needed. I became aware at the time of the KS 4, which was made by Rexton. Then there was the 5, the 6, the 7, the 8, now the 9. The KS 4 was $2K. The KS 5 was $1900. Then the 6 at $1800. And so forth. The KS 9 is made by Phonak and sells for $1500, and there isn’t a higher quality hearing aid in the industry than Phonak. And the Beltone’s of the world are still selling them at six grand large. And Costco provides better warranties than most, and Costco provides unlimited service just like the high priced people. And Costco provides a no-questions asked, 6 month full refund if you don’t like the product - and I don’t know of *anybody* else who does that.

>

> The idea that golf balls are somehow high tech is ludicrous. Anybody here think that a golf ball is anywhere as technical as a modern digital hearing aid? I would guess that I have more engineering degrees than Dean Snell (who has designed a great golf ball, incidentally, kudo’s to Dean, I buy them and love them), and I say that golf balls are not rocket engineering. Yes, they have a lot of technical content and yes they have significant manufacturing challenges, but no rocket engineering required.

>

> Does anybody here believe that Costco couldn’t make a golf ball designer like a Dean Snell an offer that he couldn’t refuse, should they want to be in the premium golf ball business and need capability to design balls and work with a foundry? Does anybody here believe that Costco lacks the resources to buy all or part of a TaylorMade and crank out great Kirkland Sig golf balls like crazy?

>

> If Costco wants to be in the business of selling tour quality golf balls there isn’t any question in my mind that they lack the resources or the know-how to make it happen. Do they want to do it? I haven’t the faintest idea...

>

 

Could be all true. Although I do disagree on the level of technical info involved in creating a competitive tour quality golf ball that is your own design and not a copy and core made by someone else. To truly bring out a new ball that is yours takes know how.

 

And engineering degrees aren’t a good barometer of that know how. Not in a practical sense. Being in the field myself , I can tell you , as you already know , there are very brilliant engineers out there and then there are engineers with multiple degrees that couldn’t operate the fry cook station at McDonald’s if their lives depended on it without a pimple faced teenager to hold their hand and show them how. Multiple degrees do not impress me. It’s all about the body of work for an engineer , Individual work. Meaning anyone who studies can buy a degree. But show me what you can do with it. Remember someone finishes last in every class and still graduates. Lol.

 

Now back around to Costco. All the small to no profit sales that Costco does to gain market share has to be hurting traditional companies. At what point in the future are they going to create a small ( or big) monopoly on one or more markets ? We a know how that goes for the consumer.

 

And lastly. Eyeglass labs are not the worlds most technical places. I’m pretty included into the inner workings of a ophthalmology Practice that includes its own lab with optometrists and techs for day to day eyecare of those who cannot be helped with surgery. I’d hardly call anybody there an engineer. And they grind even the thickest offset prism prescriptions in house , while you wait.

 

In my opinion places like Costco conditions us to believe that everything they sell is “ a deal”. And that mom and pop can’t possibly meet the price and or quality. And that big brands are robbing us.

 

Think like this. If I take and buy a truck load of lumber from a insurance auction. Let’s say it was not harmed in a warehouse fire. I pay .85 cents per 2x4. Market price for board like this is $1.25 per. I setup an ad and sell for .95cents each , undercutting the local lumber yard. I advertise that “ joe lumber has been robbing you for years. My woood is just as good and it’s cheaper by a lot “. Not really a true or genuine idea. Why ? Even if i have a huge supply , it will eventually run out. And then what ? If I want to stay into the lumber game I’ll have t raise prices. Even if I buy my own mill and contract suppliers. I can still undercut long enough to put Joes lumber yard out of business. But then what ? I’ll eventually raise prices or lower quality to make a Profit that I can work with. Likely the same profit that joe was making.

 

Costco has done the same with hotdogs , and now chicken. The perceived quality is that it’s equal. But is it ? Can we judge that it is based on the previously conditioned customers willingness to buy it ? I say no. I wonder how these brands do in a blind taste test . Can people really not tell the difference between Hebrew national and Kirkland dogs ? ( real question I don’t know the answer to ). That folks is how we get the “ it’s just as good “ product for the same price. And some of us look back and recall what quality was before the big box monopolies came about.

[monks66]

this a golf ball thread, not a kirkland brand thread, i dont wanta read this stuff guys , come on..stick to topic gees

[gioreeko]

> @ZNDavis said:

> Anyone else perfectly happy restocking the 5A K-sigs (tour performance) and playing those for the next few years? Only drawback for me is durability issues (scuffing with normal shots), but even then it's not a stretch to get a full round or two per ball. Just got 5 dozen for ~$40 and I'm set for a while

 

Don't know if I'd get that many, I'm sitting on about 7 dozen of the OG K sigs, and it looks like my 4 dozen of the new ones are good, and I really like the new ball too. I guess it's a wait and see what Costco does with a new batch (if any) The fact is that if it was indeed just a manufacturing issue and not a design flaw, I'll definitely get more of the new ones if and when they come out.

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @torbill said:

> > Been reading through the comments that have been made since my epistle on Costco business fundamentals. I have a few more things to mention:

> >

> > If you want data on Kirkland Signature brand performance go to Amazon and search on ‘Kirkland Signature’, and see what people think about the Costco house brand products.

> >

> > As to golf balls, I have no idea where Costco goes from here, except that if they want to be in the business they are going to be in the business and they are going to do it well. The notion that they can’t control the quality and performance of a golf ball because it is technical is silly. Let me provide a couple of real world examples of Costco putting its brand on technical products:

> >

> > Eyewear is technical. The leaders are companies like Essilor, Hoya, Nikon, and Zeiss. For years Costco sold so-so progressive bifocals at an attractive price. For whatever reason, they vertically integrated lens production a few years ago by having their own operation in San Diego. Now they produce first rate (not the best, but very good) digital progressives and sell them at a fraction - say 20-25% - of what the bigs charge.

> >

> > Hearing aids are technical. The leaders are companies like Oticon, Phonak, Signa/Rexton, and GN Resound. A pair of premium digital hearing aids from a place like Beltone will set you back, say, six grand large. Costco has been selling premium Kirkland Sig hearing aids for a long time. They get them from the bigs in the industry (slightly de-featured so as to not entirely screw-up the traditional distribution channels of the bigs), changing from one supplier to another as needed. I became aware at the time of the KS 4, which was made by Rexton. Then there was the 5, the 6, the 7, the 8, now the 9. The KS 4 was $2K. The KS 5 was $1900. Then the 6 at $1800. And so forth. The KS 9 is made by Phonak and sells for $1500, and there isn’t a higher quality hearing aid in the industry than Phonak. And the Beltone’s of the world are still selling them at six grand large. And Costco provides better warranties than most, and Costco provides unlimited service just like the high priced people. And Costco provides a no-questions asked, 6 month full refund if you don’t like the product - and I don’t know of *anybody* else who does that.

> >

> > The idea that golf balls are somehow high tech is ludicrous. Anybody here think that a golf ball is anywhere as technical as a modern digital hearing aid? I would guess that I have more engineering degrees than Dean Snell (who has designed a great golf ball, incidentally, kudo’s to Dean, I buy them and love them), and I say that golf balls are not rocket engineering. Yes, they have a lot of technical content and yes they have significant manufacturing challenges, but no rocket engineering required.

> >

> > Does anybody here believe that Costco couldn’t make a golf ball designer like a Dean Snell an offer that he couldn’t refuse, should they want to be in the premium golf ball business and need capability to design balls and work with a foundry? Does anybody here believe that Costco lacks the resources to buy all or part of a TaylorMade and crank out great Kirkland Sig golf balls like crazy?

> >

> > If Costco wants to be in the business of selling tour quality golf balls there isn’t any question in my mind that they lack the resources or the know-how to make it happen. Do they want to do it? I haven’t the faintest idea...

> >

>

> > @torbill said:

> > Been reading through the comments that have been made since my epistle on Costco business fundamentals. I have a few more things to mention:

> >

> > If you want data on Kirkland Signature brand performance go to Amazon and search on ‘Kirkland Signature’, and see what people think about the Costco house brand products.

> >

> > As to golf balls, I have no idea where Costco goes from here, except that if they want to be in the business they are going to be in the business and they are going to do it well. The notion that they can’t control the quality and performance of a golf ball because it is technical is silly. Let me provide a couple of real world examples of Costco putting its brand on technical products:

> >

> > Eyewear is technical. The leaders are companies like Essilor, Hoya, Nikon, and Zeiss. For years Costco sold so-so progressive bifocals at an attractive price. For whatever reason, they vertically integrated lens production a few years ago by having their own operation in San Diego. Now they produce first rate (not the best, but very good) digital progressives and sell them at a fraction - say 20-25% - of what the bigs charge.

> >

> > Hearing aids are technical. The leaders are companies like Oticon, Phonak, Signa/Rexton, and GN Resound. A pair of premium digital hearing aids from a place like Beltone will set you back, say, six grand large. Costco has been selling premium Kirkland Sig hearing aids for a long time. They get them from the bigs in the industry (slightly de-featured so as to not entirely screw-up the traditional distribution channels of the bigs), changing from one supplier to another as needed. I became aware at the time of the KS 4, which was made by Rexton. Then there was the 5, the 6, the 7, the 8, now the 9. The KS 4 was $2K. The KS 5 was $1900. Then the 6 at $1800. And so forth. The KS 9 is made by Phonak and sells for $1500, and there isn’t a higher quality hearing aid in the industry than Phonak. And the Beltone’s of the world are still selling them at six grand large. And Costco provides better warranties than most, and Costco provides unlimited service just like the high priced people. And Costco provides a no-questions asked, 6 month full refund if you don’t like the product - and I don’t know of *anybody* else who does that.

> >

> > The idea that golf balls are somehow high tech is ludicrous. Anybody here think that a golf ball is anywhere as technical as a modern digital hearing aid? I would guess that I have more engineering degrees than Dean Snell (who has designed a great golf ball, incidentally, kudo’s to Dean, I buy them and love them), and I say that golf balls are not rocket engineering. Yes, they have a lot of technical content and yes they have significant manufacturing challenges, but no rocket engineering required.

> >

> > Does anybody here believe that Costco couldn’t make a golf ball designer like a Dean Snell an offer that he couldn’t refuse, should they want to be in the premium golf ball business and need capability to design balls and work with a foundry? Does anybody here believe that Costco lacks the resources to buy all or part of a TaylorMade and crank out great Kirkland Sig golf balls like crazy?

> >

> > If Costco wants to be in the business of selling tour quality golf balls there isn’t any question in my mind that they lack the resources or the know-how to make it happen. Do they want to do it? I haven’t the faintest idea...

> >

>

> Could be all true. Although I do disagree on the level of technical info involved in creating a competitive tour quality golf ball that is your own design and not a copy and core made by someone else. To truly bring out a new ball that is yours takes know how.

>

> And engineering degrees aren’t a good barometer of that know how. Not in a practical sense. Being in the field myself , I can tell you , as you already know , there are very brilliant engineers out there and then there are engineers with multiple degrees that couldn’t operate the fry cook station at McDonald’s if their lives depended on it without a pimple faced teenager to hold their hand and show them how. Multiple degrees do not impress me. It’s all about the body of work for an engineer , Individual work. Meaning anyone who studies can buy a degree. But show me what you can do with it. Remember someone finishes last in every class and still graduates. Lol.

>

> Now back around to Costco. All the small to no profit sales that Costco does to gain market share has to be hurting traditional companies. At what point in the future are they going to create a small ( or big) monopoly on one or more markets ? We a know how that goes for the consumer.

>

> And lastly. Eyeglass labs are not the worlds most technical places. I’m pretty included into the inner workings of a ophthalmology Practice that includes its own lab with optometrists and techs for day to day eyecare of those who cannot be helped with surgery. I’d hardly call anybody there an engineer. And they grind even the thickest offset prism prescriptions in house , while you wait.

>

> In my opinion places like Costco conditions us to believe that everything they sell is “ a deal”. And that mom and pop can’t possibly meet the price and or quality. And that big brands are robbing us.

>

> Think like this. If I take and buy a truck load of lumber from a insurance auction. Let’s say it was not harmed in a warehouse fire. I pay .85 cents per 2x4. Market price for board like this is $1.25 per. I setup an ad and sell for .95cents each , undercutting the local lumber yard. I advertise that “ joe lumber has been robbing you for years. My woood is just as good and it’s cheaper by a lot “. Not really a true or genuine idea. Why ? Even if i have a huge supply , it will eventually run out. And then what ? If I want to stay into the lumber game I’ll have t raise prices. Even if I buy my own mill and contract suppliers. I can still undercut long enough to put Joes lumber yard out of business. But then what ? I’ll eventually raise prices or lower quality to make a Profit that I can work with. Likely the same profit that joe was making.

>

> Costco has done the same with hotdogs , and now chicken. The perceived quality is that it’s equal. But is it ? Can we judge that it is based on the previously conditioned customers willingness to buy it ? I say no. I wonder how these brands do in a blind taste test . Can people really not tell the difference between Hebrew national and Kirkland dogs ? ( real question I don’t know the answer to ). That folks is how we get the “ it’s just as good “ product for the same price. And some of us look back and recall what quality was before the big box monopolies came about.

 

Strange how different the narrative is between Costco and years ago with Walmart.

 

But back to the ball. It sounds like it - the original- was a good ball(aka the Nassau Quattro). And by getting them as overstock And branding as Kirkland they created a legend But the question is was it sustainable? It seems not as they never really had stock-or held them back to grow the buzz. Whichever they are now gone. It seems now they have a 3 piece that satisfies some and a 4 piece that failed. If they can find a supply of inexpensive urethane balls they will likely rebrand it and attempt again.

But until they get a manufacturer to make a ball that is truly a Kirkland, and not someone else’s ball rebranded, they will never be able to sustain desired pricing.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @monks66 said:

> this a golf ball thread, not a kirkland brand thread, i dont wanta read this stuff guys , come on..stick to topic gees

 

The Kirkland brand has been used to defend the ball etc many times. If It’s ok to use in its defense surely that makes the Kirkland brand part of the discussion.

[Philomathesq]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @monks66 said:

> > this a golf ball thread, not a kirkland brand thread, i dont wanta read this stuff guys , come on..stick to topic gees

>

> The Kirkland brand has been used to defend the ball etc many times. If It’s ok to use in its defense surely that makes the Kirkland brand part of the discussion.

 

The use of logic and common sense is disallowed in this thread. Please recalibrate yourself. :smiley:

[Girevik]

> @Shilgy said:

>

> It seems now they have a 3 piece that satisfies some and a 4 piece that failed.

 

I think it's far too early to say the new ball had failed. There were issues with some percentage of the balls which industry insiders says was caused by an easily correctable error in the process. I see no reason to assume they won't get it sorted out and release the ball again.

 

 

[DavePelz4]

> @Girevik said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> >

> > It seems now they have a 3 piece that satisfies some and a 4 piece that failed.

>

> I think it's far too early to say the new ball had failed. There were issues with some percentage of the balls which industry insiders says was caused by an easily correctable error in the process. I see no reason to assume they won't get it sorted out and release the ball again.

>

>

 

Understanding the focus on the KS brand, there is no doubt the next round of balls will be tested and retested and the quality will be on point. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the next round and this round is back in the bag.

[monks66]

SO are you saying , we will see the KP1 come out again with improved cover??

[Girevik]

I think we'll see it with the same cover but the manufacturing glitch that caused some covers to separate resolved. Just from anecdotal evidence on this thread, it seems fewer balls have the cover issue than not. I'd love to know what the failure rate was.

[Bill Broderick]

> @ZNDavis said:

> Anyone else perfectly happy restocking the 5A K-sigs (tour performance) and playing those for the next few years? Only drawback for me is durability issues (scuffing with normal shots), but even then it's not a stretch to get a full round or two per ball. Just got 5 dozen for ~$40 and I'm set for a while

 

I bought 9 dozen last week.

[DavePelz4]

> @monks66 said:

> SO are you saying , we will see the KP1 come out again with improved cover??

 

At this point in time, I have no knowledge if or when Costco is going to release any new ball.

[chisag]

... Again, per the Costco poll published in their magazine, 3% of Costco members are golfers. I am assuming golf balls are just not on their priority list. Dave you know better than I would, but I would think Costco doesn't wanna run out of any Kirkland product in 1/2 day. So drama over a golf ball that only 3% are interested in and of course all 3% don't even buy balls from Costco, just seems like more trouble than it is worth. Like MB's, outside of forums and particularly this forum, nobody cares. MB's make up 1% of sales. So the guy playing MB's that is upset over the Kirkland ball exists only on a golf forum, and would be called "statistically insignificant" for any OEM.

[Girevik]

If I ran a bakery and a batch of cupcakes came out under cooked because of a bad heating element in the oven or an employee pulled them out too early I'd fix the oven or train my employees, not just shutter the place and say "oh well, I tried".

 

Getting this ball to market had to take a significant investment, which they made for a reason. I don't see why they'd abandon it over what is likely an easily correctable issue.

[soregongolfer]

> @Girevik said:

> If I ran a bakery and a batch of cupcakes came out undercooked because of a bad heating element in the oven or an employee pulled then out to early I'd fix the oven or train my employees, not just shutter the place and say "oh well, I tried".

>

> Getting this ball to market had to take a significant investment which they made fur a reason. I don't see why they'd abandon it over what is likely an easily correctable issue.

 

Stop being logical. Nobody likes that guy. ;)

[larciel]

> @chisag said:

> ... Again, per the Costco poll published in their magazine, 3% of Costco members are golfers. I am assuming golf balls are just not on their priority list. Dave you know better than I would, but I would think Costco doesn't wanna run out of any Kirkland product in 1/2 day. So drama over a golf ball that only 3% are interested in and of course all 3% don't even buy balls from Costco, just seems like more trouble than it is worth. Like MB's, outside of forums and particularly this forum, nobody cares. MB's make up 1% of sales. So the guy playing MB's that is upset over the Kirkland ball exists only on a golf forum, and would be called "statistically insignificant" for any OEM.

 

Everything you said might be true but Kirkland Signature exists to bring MORE new members to Costco as well.

I bet Ksig bonanza brought in alot of new costco members since it got so much exposure across all golfers.

[DavePelz4]

> @chisag said:

> ... Again, per the Costco poll published in their magazine, 3% of Costco members are golfers. I am assuming golf balls are just not on their priority list. Dave you know better than I would, but I would think Costco doesn't wanna run out of any Kirkland product in 1/2 day. So drama over a golf ball that only 3% are interested in and of course all 3% don't even buy balls from Costco, just seems like more trouble than it is worth. Like MB's, outside of forums and particularly this forum, nobody cares. MB's make up 1% of sales. So the guy playing MB's that is upset over the Kirkland ball exists only on a golf forum, and would be called "statistically insignificant" for any OEM.

 

This is from back when the regional marketing person was sharing some info so it's about 3 years old. The original ball was a flyer and Costco had no idea if a KS ball would be generally accepted. The ball was the first time that the Costco servers crashed due to demand and that's when they knew it was a hit and they started to scramble to meet members' demand. **Personal opinion**...I think they were pleased the ball sold out and thought they had something that could draw new members into the fold hence they added the 3 piece and are now trying to bring back a 4 piece ball.

[dwboston]

> @Girevik said:

> If I ran a bakery and a batch of cupcakes came out under cooked because of a bad heating element in the oven or an employee pulled them out too early I'd fix the oven or train my employees, not just shutter the place and say "oh well, I tried".

>

> Getting this ball to market had to take a significant investment, which they made for a reason. I don't see why they'd abandon it over what is likely an easily correctable issue.

 

The problem with this example is that Costco doesn't run the bakery. It contracts out to a different baker for cupcakes at a specific price point, has another company package them up, sells them as "comparable to the leading cupcakes", and apparently has no mechanism/capability for actually determining the quality of said cupcakes.

 

At least with golf balls, unlike cupcakes, no one gets food poisoning when they are "undercooked".

[Girevik]

> @dwboston said:

>

> The problem with this example is that Costco doesn't run the bakery. It contracts out to a different baker for cupcakes at a specific price point, has another company package them up, sells them as "comparable to the leading cupcakes", and apparently has no mechanism/capability for actually determining the quality of said cupcakes.

>

>At least with golf balls, unlike cupcakes, no one gets food poisoning when they are "undercooked".

 

Whether I'm selling the cupcakes in my own storefront or shipping them off to Hostess to put their name on, the point is the same. It makes no sense to me to shut down the operation if the problem can be easily fixed. Hostess wouldn't have given me the contract if they weren't convinced I can deliver, and given Costco's protective attitude to the Kirkland name I'm sure they wouldn't have signed on with the new manufacturer without having done their research. I'd be surprised if we don't see the ball again.

 

And thanks for pointing out my typo even though I corrected it before you quoted my post.