Lovely to watch, but how does the Tour STOP the rash of sub 60 rounds

[North Butte]

Also, going with the 'conspiracy theory' a little, there seems to be the narrative described above with regard to players like Rory, DJ, JD, Tiger etc, whom also seem to have the biggest profile with the sponsors, so there seems to be an effort to accentuate their feats with driver etc.

 

However, when you look at the driver clubhead speeds (someone posted this recently and it was very enlightening, i'll see if I can dig it out) over the past year, it seems like every player is swinging it at 120+mph, and some are swinging it into the 130's! In fact, I don't think Rory, DJ, JD etc were in the top 10 fastest swingers.

 

EDIT: I stand corrected and most players are swinging around 115+mph. And DJ is 9th on the list.

 

Here is the list:-

 

http://www.pgatour.c...stat.02401.html

 

average is like 112-113.

 

But the average of shots you see TV announcers going ga-ga over is about 120!

 

It's kind of like when they have that computer graphic that puts lines across a fairway on one hole. They will show the Longest Drive of the day is 318 and they'll show another that was 316. But then there's the Average Drive line around 289 and have you ever noticed how often the shot you're watching right now seems to end up right around that 289 line?

 

Twenty-four hours later you will not recall that 289-yard average. You'll just recall the image of that line drawn out there at 318 and, unless you're the sort of person who has very careful mental hygiene, you will remember it "Those guys were driving it 318 on the 16th hole yesterday at PGA West". No they weren't, they were mostly driving it 289 but the narrative is being tailored to be a more amazing number.

[Forged4ever]

Not to worry BroMeisters, the Tour is gonna be fine, this isn't gonna become a regular occurrence, and Armageddon is not upon us~

 

Why my optimism?

 

Well, aside from the fact that I am, when unmediated, a realistic pragmatic kinda guy?

 

The Tour said so....

 

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/18538300/why-think-pga-tour-fretting-surge-sub-60-scores

 

They're good for business ??️

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

[Roadking2003]

Ok. With the exception of duval and Thomas.

 

Still means that 59 is done with precision, not length.

 

I agree. Furyk can't hit it out of his shadow. He's 212th in driving distance this year.

[Roadking2003]

59s have been fun to watch for 2017 but they have been shot on courses where the scores have always been low on..they are "easier" courses for the pros traditional : Sony Open, and California desert so far. I think i will be more judgmental when i see 59s at Pebble, Doral, Sawgrass..so far... good entertainment and mighty good putting on both 59s. It's not like they had tapins all day.

 

But they've played those easy courses for decades and didn't have as many 59s.

 

I think a big contributor is the perfect putting greens.

[moonshine]

It was more about making everything they looked at more than how far they hit it. Hadwin had 21 puts, Austin and Thomas were rolling it in from everywhere.

Thomas was carrying loads of palms cutting doglegs in half...now if that is the ball, "balls" or clubs who knows. Years back if dudes saw 90 deg dogleg they hit iron off the tee...usually. It also reminds me of stories I have heard about VJ from guys who played with him. If that dude could putt he may have half a dozen sub 60 rounds.

[airjammer]

Also, going with the 'conspiracy theory' a little, there seems to be the narrative described above with regard to players like Rory, DJ, JD, Tiger etc, whom also seem to have the biggest profile with the sponsors, so there seems to be an effort to accentuate their feats with driver etc.

 

However, when you look at the driver clubhead speeds (someone posted this recently and it was very enlightening, i'll see if I can dig it out) over the past year, it seems like every player is swinging it at 120+mph, and some are swinging it into the 130's! In fact, I don't think Rory, DJ, JD etc were in the top 10 fastest swingers.

 

EDIT: I stand corrected and most players are swinging around 115+mph. And DJ is 9th on the list.

 

Here is the list:-

 

http://www.pgatour.c...stat.02401.html

 

average is like 112-113.

 

But the average of shots you see TV announcers going ga-ga over is about 120!

 

It's kind of like when they have that computer graphic that puts lines across a fairway on one hole. They will show the Longest Drive of the day is 318 and they'll show another that was 316. But then there's the Average Drive line around 289 and have you ever noticed how often the shot you're watching right now seems to end up right around that 289 line?

 

Twenty-four hours later you will not recall that 289-yard average. You'll just recall the image of that line drawn out there at 318 and, unless you're the sort of person who has very careful mental hygiene, you will remember it "Those guys were driving it 318 on the 16th hole yesterday at PGA West". No they weren't, they were mostly driving it 289 but the narrative is being tailored to be a more amazing number.

 

Exactly, this is why they don't show the swing speed with the trackman numbers anymore..they show ball speed and total distance. There are probably several guys at your club that swings faster than your average tour player. "They are just way better at everything than you and anyone else at your club" apparently doesn't sell ads like they wish it did.

[gretch]

I don't want to see Hadwin's and other randos shooting 59s. That's why it's a problem. It cheapens the game

 

So, you think that when very skilled players, who just aren't top of their field get blistering hot every now and then it cheapens the game?

 

I don't even know how to respond to this, so i will instead scar this into your brain.

 

[taporsnap17]

Is shooting 59 really "easy" or did we just happen to have a few (yeah I'll accept that comparative to previous years it's a lot) shoot it.

 

No disrespect to those that have done it (and I didn't keep track), but what was the par for the course? Hey a 59 is a 59, but if it was on a par 69 vs say a par 72, that's got to be taken into consideration too

[elwhippy]

Our group was talking about this on Sunday. In truth some "Tour" courses are not very difficult. The desert tracks are resort or members clubs aimed at the retiree market. Wailae is almost devoid of hazards and difficult rough and the bunkers are more for decoration. Add in flat greens, in perfect condition, good weather and hey presto low scores. When someone shoots 59 at Innisbrook's Copperhead or Royal Birkdale then we should worry. Oh and yes "these guys are good!""...

[bladehunter]

Golf for professionals has become drive and short iron. The USGA and the PGA Tour have let it happen so they must be fine with it. We've lost some of the art of golf, but on the flip side, it's fun to see them launch it.

 

20 years from now, 400 yard drives will be the norm if the USGA doesn't do something about it. It's not realistic to expect golf courses to keep up with equipment changes. It's far too expensive to make expensive course changes just for the sake of PGA players when their normal clientele for 51 weeks out of the year don't need the additional length. 59 is going to be less of an accomplishment going forward but it won't change the enjoyment I get out of the game when I play.

 

They've Limited the CT/COR and Max volume. How are we going to get to 400 years drives exactly?

 

 

The head tech is moving things forward..it doesnt do alot for the 110mph and under guy...but for the upper end it does... im sorry if its hard to believe but it does.. for the top players distances will continue to inch forward.... as posted earlier... the thing now is flying it over 300... used to be if you got one to 300 you were long ... not anymore...DJ currently averaging 319.... thats average ! and thats insane

 

Even if this were true, you've got one guy you point to averaging 319, you say distance will continue to "inch forward" yet it's my contention you take issue with and not the notion that in 20 years "400 yards will be the norm"? That's absurd on the face of it.

 

Guys are hitting the ball farther. I believe It's true whether other folks believe it or not. the wall could be near where it stops dead. I don't know. But acting as if because COR has been set for years that distance couldn't possibly be more now than then is just not true. But hey. I guess they are lengthening every course they can because players need the excersise , right ?

 

Lets don't turn this into a " personal " thing. I'm not attacking you. But simply trying to convey the logic that if ( yes if ) they are able to continue to inch distance further as they have for several years then I see it as a problem for the game. If you don't see that as a problem I respect that opinion.

[bladehunter]

And one last thought guys. If there's no difference in now and 2005ish then why the quick outcry any time bringing the ball back and limiting club head size to 360 is mentioned ? If it's the same then why would it kill the game as one poster said earlier ? There is a huge contradiction surrounding the " data " and the thoughts folks have about swapping back. Is it forgiveness ? And if so then how does that play into the data and the lower scores we are seeing ?

[stinger_gc]

Ban any kind of putter, lob or sand wedge.

[North Butte]

Nobody started a thread to complain about driving distance is not changing over the past decade. Any so-called outcry is from the people claiming incorrectly that there are continuing huge increases in driving distance on tour.

[bladehunter]

Nobody started a thread to complain about driving distance is not changing over the past decade. Any so-called outcry is from the people claiming incorrectly that there are continuing huge increases in driving distance on tour.

 

The point of the distance claims is that they are the direct or indirect ( depending on situation ) cause of the rash of sub or equal to 60 rounds. If you think it's because of another factor beside the cop out " these guys are good " ( they alwasy have been ) then I'm all ears

 

Edit. - to try to explain my thinking further. I'm not harping on the longest of the Long. I have mentioned DJ etc. but just as illustration. The issue is the short guy being long now too. Is there a single sub 250 driver of the ball anymore on tour ?

 

Ah whatever. I'm pooped from this thread. Uncle I guess. Ball isn't flying any farther than it ever has. All tech is crap. Forgiveness doesn't exist , there have been no measurable driver improvements since 2005 and we should all go back to blades and steel shafts in everything.

 

If only you guys really believed that. Lol. Good day folks.

[MtlJeff]

Nobody started a thread to complain about driving distance is not changing over the past decade. Any so-called outcry is from the people claiming incorrectly that there are continuing huge increases in driving distance on tour.

 

The point of the distance claims is that they are the direct or indirect ( depending on situation ) cause of the rash of sub or equal to 60 rounds. If you think it's because of another factor beside the cop out " these guys are good " ( they alwasy have been ) then I'm all ears

 

Sport is more capitalized, more depth, higher odds of someone shooting a 59. More depth is due to money as Tiger drove up purses which drew more people into pro golf. People chase money

 

If purses in darts were 10M. Twenty years from now we would have waaaaaaay more talent in the darts game

 

There was less money when some of our heros played. Often in the Nicklaus era the guy finishing 70th was a hobo, or a random guy who showed up to play the course with his buddies and accidentally ended up in the tournament

[pinhigh27]

Nobody started a thread to complain about driving distance is not changing over the past decade. Any so-called outcry is from the people claiming incorrectly that there are continuing huge increases in driving distance on tour.

 

The point of the distance claims is that they are the direct or indirect ( depending on situation ) cause of the rash of sub or equal to 60 rounds. If you think it's because of another factor beside the cop out " these guys are good " ( they alwasy have been ) then I'm all ears

 

not necessarily..

[QMany]

The point of the distance claims is that they are the direct or indirect ( depending on situation ) cause of the rash of sub or equal to 60 rounds. If you think it's because of another factor beside the cop out " these guys are good " ( they alwasy have been ) then I'm all ears

 

JB Holmes (1st), Dustin Johnson (2nd), Tony Finau (3rd), Bubba Watson (4th), and Andrew Loupe (5th) are all 310+ and don't have any sub-60 rounds. Jim Furyk (160th) is bunting it out there 30 yards behind them and has 2.

[Dave230]

McIlroy said on a podcast today that he's never broken 60. So maybe not so easy. And he drove it 317 avg in South Africa.

[Pete O'Tube]

I wrote the opening post. I was not complaining about the distance the ball is hit, because nobody is going to change that. My beef is that the courses are too easy for these guys. I'm encouraged that the scores we're seeing in San Diego this week are an indication of how the course should be set up. Decent rough makes a difference and when the wind blows.....

[farmer]

^^^^ I notice we're not on a 59 watch this week.

[capnstabn]

Roll back the ball.

 

 

 

this is it... pull the ball back and driver head size limit..(around 360-380cc) . no more 59.. easy peasy.. would happen but would remain a rarity

 

Tour players will achieve the same scores with 3 woods and 2 irons. I think its the ball.

[Man_O_War]

if Tiger shoots a 59 on tv, the tour will tiger proof all courses ...again :)

[North Butte]

Believe me, if Quail Hollow could figure out how to create a course where Tiger shoots 59 they'd be renovating with that in mind as we speak. That's a PGA of America/PGA Tour/TV Network wet dream right there. Tiger shoots 59. Ratings gold.

[Man_O_War]

Believe me, if Quail Hollow could figure out how to create a course where Tiger shoots 59 they'd be renovating with that in mind as we speak. That's a PGA of America/PGA Tour/TV Network wet dream right there. Tiger shoots 59. Ratings gold.

 

alas..even for a Tiger fan, those days are pipe dreams away

[North Butte]

Believe me, if Quail Hollow could figure out how to create a course where Tiger shoots 59 they'd be renovating with that in mind as we speak. That's a PGA of America/PGA Tour/TV Network wet dream right there. Tiger shoots 59. Ratings gold.

 

alas..even for a Tiger fan, those days are pipe dreams away

 

Well you could probably do it as long as you didn't mind Justin Thomas shooting 52 on the same course!

[Strategery]

Guys,

 

I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure that changing the ball will never happen, particularly when the golf business is struggling.

 

More length hasn't worked.

 

Should the courses be made tighter, with more bunkers and/or rough? I'm not sure because I don't want it to be too penal and see every course set up like a US Open with +1 winning.

 

What do you think?

 

Why would they wish to do that? The professional tours are all just a business. Their purpose in existance is to make money and money comes from television advertising. Low scores sell Viagra and luxury cars to old white men.

 

They will desensitize the consumer and lose all interest, Jack was right *many* years about the ball.

[North Butte]

Are you contending that there are millions of people not watching golf today who would watch it if only the guys didn't hit it as far?

[mahonie]

I do find watching the PGA Tour, on the whole, quite tedious to the point that I don't really bother that much these days. There are a few good tournaments...but generally most of the courses are set up to make it easier for the pros. It becomes a drive and gouge game lacking any real skill or finesse. The main skill seems to be how to manage to putt on greens with unrealistic speeds.

[Shilgy]

I believe I've read the "damn ball goes to far" stories have been around for over a century. 140 years ago or so some British chap complained that the pros AVERAGED under 80 for the Open. Can you bloody believe it?? The games too easy with this new rubber ball! Then they got mowers instead of sheep. And the ball rolled further of the tee and putted easier. And the scores went, alas, into the 60's on occasion to the old guards consternation. Believe me, RoyalWRX™ was pissed. Now on those easy courses "over the pond" the occasional score under 60 has been posted. Egads!

Accept how good, and how many, players there are on tour and enjoy watching their skill instead of bemoaning how much better they are than us.

[brutusthedobie]

Don't allow practice rounds on the tournament course to be played. Also, time to change venues maybe? Let's mix it up a little bit. Make the pros travel and make them play on a course they've probably never played before....just my opinion..