Difficulty Going From 5 to Scratch vs....

[A.Princey]

Just wondering what the best players here think the difficulty is in going from a 5hcp to scratch as it relates to say, going from 10 to 5?

 

I know scratch is really tough to attain, unless you have pure, natural talent, but is the difference here like chess vs checkers? Is it exponentially harder, where time spent practicing/playing has to double or triple?

[oz dee cee]

I think there’s a bell curve going on for sure. Hard to quantify though.

[Jagpilotohio]

Going from 10 to 5 is killing the blow up holes. Doubles and triples and just generally becoming more consistent overall.

 

5 to scratch is still obviously more developing more consistency, but the big emphasis is on putting and 100 yards in.

 

When I used to to teach I would see certain decent players spend a huge amount of time hitting balls but little to no time in the short game area chipping, pitching, hitting bunker shots etc., and minimal time putting. Beating balls is fine, but after you’ve grooved your swing, which a 5 or 6 cap has essentially done, you need to get a wedge and a putter in your hands FAR more often than most people do.

 

When I decided I was going to make a serious effort to gun for the plus side of zero I was spending AT LEAST half my practice Time with a wedge or putter in my hand. Made it to +2 and passed my PAT on the first try but then stalled. I Never was a great putter no matter how much time or how many drills I did. I just don’t see break as well as most people. Still don’t. Very Frustrating. I can hit it right where I want, but too often the line is wrong.

 

Im a long time out of the business but I still spend at least 50% of my practice time with a wedge or a putter in my hand. Last week I did a 5 hour practice session. 2 hours on the range hitting 120 balls VERY deliberately with an alignment stick on every shot. About 70 of those balls wedge shots. Then 3 hours in the short game area and putting. I’ll never “forget” how to swing, but I will definitely loose my touch without lots of Reps.

 

 

[finleysg]

Watched the Paul Lawrie episode of Chronicles of a Champion Golfer the other day. Apparently he started working as a pro at a 5 hcp. So it's possible, with enough hard work, grit, and talent, to go from a 5 to an Open champion.

[b.mattay]

I found it easier to be honest. Took me less time to go from a 8 to a +2 (came from mostly mental game improvements) then it did to drop my handicap from 20 to 10 (which came mostly from improving mechanics). Kind of stalled out at my current handicap-it's hard to eliminate the 1-2 horrendous tee shots per round that lead to at least bogey.

[A.Princey]

Hmmmm....interesting insights. My putting has improved significantly as of late, so this seems more attainable now than ever, but still not a reality without some more consistency.

[BCC]

Putting and the short game !!!! HAVE to get up & down IF green is missed !! Also, HAVE to make those birdie putts inside 8'......

Pressure builds as we shoot low...learning to control anxiety takes a lot of experience !!!

[ksgolfcoach]

Everybody is different and have different strengths and weaknesses but in my experience, ball striking is the major difference between a typical 5 handicap and scratch. Most 5’s are hitting 9 or less greens a round where a typical scratch player is around 12. Plus the scratch players misses are not as far off line and take fewer penalty strokes.

[Mcgeeno]

Its literally taken me close to 10 years to go from 5 capper to 2-3 capper.

 

I'm still working on getting near scratch. I hovered around 0-2 as a punk kid junior and then stopped playing for about 6 years (School/girls etc typical story)

 

I havent found that its distance or putting or wedge play that is the difference when I play with a legit scratch golfer.

 

I've beaten them in a round enough times to know it can be done. What I've noticed is they have another level of consistency I havent achieved yet. Their misses are tighter, their bad shots are better, their poor chips are closer etc. Usually a one way miss from driver to wedges.

 

They also don't let a double blow up their mental game. Thats my biggest issue. An early big score and its like I quit on the round. I'm working on that haha.

[Big Ben]

When you figure this out let me know I've been a 5 forever and lowest I could crack with a family and work is 2. I'm sad to say I've never sniffed that majical scratch designation. A man can dream! I would agree 120yrs in and putting is a huge factor for sure. That and very high quality course management coupled with a strong mental game. Dont tell anyone on WRX but our obsessive equipment tinkering probably doesn't help either!

[A.Princey]

When you figure this out let me know I've been a 5 forever and lowest I could crack with a family and work is 2. I'm sad to say I've never sniffed that majical scratch designation. A man can dream! I would agree 120yrs in and putting is a huge factor for sure. That and very high quality course management coupled with a strong mental game. Dont tell anyone on WRX but our obsessive equipment tinkering probably doesn't help either!

Yeah, I played 9 tonight and went through a foursome on a really tight hole that is treelined and doglegs. I saw none of their balls in the fairway, but I hit 4 iron to the corner, middle fairway and knocked it close for a legit birdie. One of them seemed to be a good player but went for the green and was blocked by a tree. After I passed, I heard his second shot hit leaves and come up short of the green. Smart play is better than bold play 9 times out of 10.

[juststeve]

To answer the original question, yes it is harder to get from a five to scratch than from a ten to a five. At some point everyone needs to really improve and not just harvest the low hanging fruit. To be scratch, real scratch not internet scratch, you need consistency and consistency is the hardest thing to get.

 

Steve

[dg_1983]

10 - 5 probably 3 different levels of performance here

 

5-0 there are probably 5 different levels of performance here

 

 

[Blaker34]

10 - 5 is easier by a mile. Regarding 5 to 0...This is such a loaded question and really depends on the person. I've played with guys who at one point in their lives were + handicaps, and can barely sniff a 2 or 3 handicap now. Improving your short game is the simple answer. However no matter how good your short game is, that doesn't get you to scratch or near scratch. Unless your short game is PGA tour level. But again, it depends who we're talking about.

 

A side from the fact aptitude has a lot to do with it. Course management, and having effective/useful misses and understanding how to play the game is a huge part of it. I don't know many guys who are consistent ball strikers that have bad short games. I happen to play with a decent amount of 3-8 handicaps, the course management I see is mind boggling sometimes. My brother being one of those guys(he's a 5). I ask him this question easily 3 to 4 times a round "So what were you thinking there?"

 

He's a really smart guy, but on the golf course, some of the decisions he makes are truly insane to me. Course management alone would get him to a 2 or 3.

[KPHayes]

Think it depends on your game and weaknesses but when I was a 5 I played a lot with a buddy who was scratch and it always seemed like I was so close to his level but couldn’t quite get there. He hit the ball a little farther than me (10-15 yards off the tee, average of 260-270 for him) which would typically give him 1 less club on approach shots. The biggest thing was he was straight - a miss off the tee would usually be just in the rough, only once every couple of rounds would he have to punch out. Approach misses would typically be just off the green with a makeable up and down. Rarely in trouble. Boring golf, probably averaged 1.x birdies a round and 3 bogies. Best I saw him shoot was 68 and worst was probably 80, most rounds around 73-75.

 

I’m now a 9 and don’t feel I’m any worse than when I was a 5 but scores say otherwise. It’s the same thing but in reverse, slightly worse misses off the tee/on approaches, 2-3 less up and downs a round and there’s the difference.

 

Consistantly eliminating a couple of misses off the tee, hitting 1-2 more greens, making 1-2 more up and downs is the path to scratch from a 5. Easier said than done.

[SomedayScratch]

Just wondering what the best players here think the difficulty is in going from a 5hcp to scratch as it relates to say, going from 10 to 5?

 

I know scratch is really tough to attain, unless you have pure, natural talent, but is the difference here like chess vs checkers? Is it exponentially harder, where time spent practicing/playing has to double or triple?

 

In my experience, it took waaaay longer for me to get to where I am now from when I was at a 5 than it did to go from 10 to 5. Part of that is because I started playing when I was a little kid, so I was a 10 when I was in 8th grade... and by 10th grade I was a 4 or 5. Meanwhile... it took me until age 24 (8 years later to get from that 4 or 5 to a scratch which I am now). I don't think 8 years is typical, as I was a 4 still about 2-3 years ago, since I had a shoulder injury that brought me from a 4 up to an 8-10 handicap my senior year of high school.

 

Going along with that -- I believe the difference between a true scratch and a 5 is a bigger ability gap than a 5 vs. a 10. (Probably why it is more difficult to go from a 5 to 0).

[TheCityGame]

To answer the original question, yes it is harder to get from a five to scratch than from a ten to a five. At some point everyone needs to really improve and not just harvest the low hanging fruit. To be scratch, real scratch not internet scratch, you need consistency and consistency is the hardest thing to get.

The low hanging fruit thing is a good analogy.

 

When you are a 10, you have plenty of holes in your game and you can start plugging them through diligent practice. I've been down to a 1.9, and I've played "plus rounds" and I can hit a drive far enough. I hit my long irons well. I have pretty good touch around the greens and I'm a decent putter. You wouldn't look at me and say, "oh he needs to improve <such and such>" like you would at some 8 capper who hit 2 hooks out of play, and had 3 3-putts. But, I need to do all those things as well as I can in 10 rounds out of 20 if I want to just get to scratch. . .not be a "good scratch" who bounces around either side of it, but just get to scratch. And it's TOUGH.

 

As a 2.5 right now, I feel like I don't have any room for error if I want to drop the cap. . .if I'm playing a course that is 6800 yards, rated 73 or so, I'm going to have a few "acceptable" bogeys out there. . .bogey on a 460 yard par 4 or a 200 yard tough par 3, or maybe a really tough 2 putt because I didn't get it close enough with an 8 iron somewhere. Then, hopefully put in a birdie or 2 and boom, that's a scratch round.

 

What I CAN'T do is ever make a bogey with a wedge approach, or 3-putt from inside of 35 feet, or make a double.

 

And, if I do, then I have to make some excellent shots to make up for it and it's tough to CONSISTENTLY RELY on having to make birdies just to knock off the mistakes.

 

It's just been a slog from 5 down to 2. Sometimes I feel like I'm playing whack-a-mole with practice. If I focus on driving or long irons for a while, my putting lags. If I focus on putting for a while, I'll hit a bad chip out there.

 

I always think like for a while improvement was like chiseling off big imperfections in the stone. When you get low, it's sanding the edges. It's detail work.

[bladehunter]

Mental Mental mental.

 

I hover from 1. Something to 2.8 as a high lately. And I literally average 1 double bogey a round. Shot 72 with 2 doubles two weeks ago. Metal lapses. Same from 5 to 1 . In my opinion if you are a legitimate traveling 5. Then you can get to 1-2 by simply figuring out where your misses are I shortgame. Ie wedges and putting. It’s almost always where the list strokes are.

 

I’m doing the same thing to try to get below 0. My low scores show I’m capable. But you aren’t going to get there with a blowup a round. Have to get that minimized. That and I’m -4 strokes gained putting a round. If I get that to average and don’t make a double. Who knows what the low is. Lol.

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s hitting it better.

 

The difference between every skill level is hitting it better.

 

Short game saves you on bad days, mental is how one scratch beats another.

 

[Ray Jackson]

Hmmmm....interesting insights. My putting has improved significantly as of late, so this seems more attainable now than ever, but still not a reality without some more consistency.

 

As some have said the short game and putting are crucial. I don't even mean 100 yds but around the greens up to 20/30 yds. You've missed the green with your approach but you get up and down then you make a couple of birdies a round, means you playing to or breaking par, even with one or two bad tee shots.

 

When I get to the practice facility I spend an hour putting (all different drills) and an hour hitting balls/wedges etc.

 

Yesterday I had 24 putts, hit 14 GIR and shot a low score (didn't drive it that well but no penalties). Was match play and I made a few putts from 10+ feet.

Practice the putting with a purpose always and soon the 3-4 footers become easy, the 6 footers you expect to make most of them and then the 10 footers you expect a few. Confidence with putting builds results and hence more confidence, it snowballs. Good luck

[RSinSG]

I’ve made it to 3 but never 0. When I was scoring really well my approach shots were closer. I’m a fair putter, but having a 12-15 foot birdie putt is so more realistic than a 25 foot one. I realize that sounds simplistic but proximity to the hole is the key for me to whittle down the handicap. Thus I spend most of my practice time with shorter irons.

 

Also, as others have mentioned it’s important to be able to salvage par when you miss a green. I work on short chips and <50 yard pitches every time I practice.

[IcemanYVR]

I went from a 6 to + 1.4 over a spring and summer. The two big things were 1) mental, Bob Rotella's "Golf is Not a Game of Perfect", and 2) leaving the range and just working on my short game and putting. I probably spent 2 hours at the practice area after every round just working on different kinds of shots and targeted putting practice.

 

These days I can't even sniff my former glory, but I still mostly practice putting and short game as I feel it is more bang for the buck practice wise.

[bogeypro]

Game management and short game.

[ferrispgm]

Just wondering what the best players here think the difficulty is in going from a 5hcp to scratch as it relates to say, going from 10 to 5?

 

I know scratch is really tough to attain, unless you have pure, natural talent, but is the difference here like chess vs checkers? Is it exponentially harder, where time spent practicing/playing has to double or triple?

 

As your handicap gets better it gets harder to improve. My first year playing golf I was a 20. I practiced indoors all winter and got down to a 12. The next year I was a 7. From there it's taken a year or so to drop a full shot in my index to where I'm at now hovering around 0. To get from a 5 to 0 has taken me about 2.5 to 3 years. The difference has been better decisions on the course and striking it better. You can't have the random Word not allowed iron shot a couple of times per round. Your misses need to be either a touch thin, maybe a hair heavy or a little push/little pull. The key being that the mishits don't penalize you. You may hit one heavy that comes up short but then you only have a pitch vs a full wedge or short iron. The big block right OB or in a hazard will quickly kill your round unless you can make a few birdies. You don't need to strike it perfectly but you need to minimize the misses for sure.

[8iron175]

Must be exceptional wedge and putting. Pga tour up and down from rough is about 55 percent. Putts between 4 to 8 feet on tour 65 percent. Get close to those numbers.

[2bGood]

I am one of those guys that believes golfer have a built in Max amount of talent and at some point there is nothing they can do to surpass it.

 

I can stick around being 4-7 with out much work, but when I went to being a scratch I had to work at my game daily for hours, and when I got there I had to keep putting the time in. I was not/am not a "natural scratch".

 

Al this is to so your millage may very.

[GoTime]

It’s hitting it better.

 

The difference between every skill level is hitting it better.

 

Short game saves you on bad days, mental is how one scratch beats another.

 

Monte, you should really think about putting together a book or booklet on management/mental aspects of the game, as well as getting in the right mind set. Things like the above and what you posted in another threat today about amateurs getting upset when missing the green by 30 feet from 150 yards are very illuminating. I may start saving the golden 1-2 liners you post just to refer back to.

[MonteScheinblum]

I appreciate the support, but no one buys golf books anymore.

 

Might have to make a video :-)

[PowderedToastMan]

I spent an entire year on the driving range, almost four hours of practice a day, grooving one-shot shape that I could control, a go-to shot (every good golfer needs one). What I found was that I hit a lot of fairways and a lot of greens when I stuck to that shape. When you hit a lot of greens, you will find that your handicap drops quick. I went from 10 to 0 that year, and when I developed a short game the next year, 0 to +3. Develop good impact conditions, find a repeatable motion, and you can play this game very well.

 

Mental hurdles be damned when you just stick to a game plan and don't deviate. Heck, I barely play now, but still know I will shoot good scores because I only hit shots I know I can hit and therefore am putting for a lot of birdies. People trying to break through and play better golf need to watch old videos of Bruce Lietzke, who is the living personification of this concept.

[jester]

I spent an entire year on the driving range, almost four hours of practice a day, grooving one-shot shape that I could control, a go-to shot (every good golfer needs one). What I found was that I hit a lot of fairways and a lot of greens when I stuck to that shape. When you hit a lot of greens, you will find that your handicap drops quick. I went from 10 to 0 that year, and when I developed a short game the next year, 0 to +3. Develop good impact conditions, find a repeatable motion, and you can play this game very well.

 

Mental hurdles be damned when you just stick to a game plan and don't deviate. Heck, I barely play now, but still know I will shoot good scores because I only hit shots I know I can hit and therefore am putting for a lot of birdies. People trying to break through and play better golf need to watch old videos of Bruce Lietzke, who is the living personification of this concept.

 

What shot shape did you decide on and how did you decide? I'm in the process of that right now and am working on a draw because my "miss" is less severe than when I fade but the fade is more natural for me.