So will Tiger call a penalty on himself at his OWN TOURNAMENT?

[mwkbmw]

Not on either side but Tiger is known for feeling a half swingweight difference, very slight cover hardness in balls, etc

 

I recall a story concerning K.J. Choi. While assembling a set of his clubs, Ping realized that they were 1 grip short of his requested weight. They decided to use a grip that was a single gram lighter on one club thinking that he would never notice. After the initial range session with the new sticks, K.J. told his caddie that there was something different about the 8 iron. Turns out, that was the club with the odd grip.

[Krt22]

This is ridiculous. How can he generate enough speed in that short of a space to have the ball not appear to "stick" to the face unintentionally. The club speed and ball speed were probably close to identical, nothing he could do.

 

If the club speed and ball speed are identical, then there has not been a proper strike on the ball. That would be more of a scoop. Or, shove. Or, rake.

 

Or, maybe, a drag. Kinda' like this thread.

 

Not true at all, especially with a glancing blow of a lofted wedge or in this case a hooded wedge flicked with the wrists. It's exactly why some radar based launch monitors have trouble with pitches indoors, the club and the ball speeds are very close in those cases.

[mwkbmw]

This is ridiculous. How can he generate enough speed in that short of a space to have the ball not appear to "stick" to the face unintentionally. The club speed and ball speed were probably close to identical, nothing he could do.

 

If the club speed and ball speed are identical, then there has not been a proper strike on the ball. That would be more of a scoop. Or, shove. Or, rake.

 

Or, maybe, a drag. Kinda' like this thread.

 

Not true at all, especially with a glancing blow of a lofted wedge or in this case a hooded wedge flicked with the wrists. It's exactly why some radar based launch monitors have trouble with pitches indoors, the club and the ball speeds are very close in those cases.

 

I disagree. For there to be a proper strike on the ball, the club head has to be moving at a speed sufficient to cause the ball to compress, however slightly, and rebound off of the clubface. If they are moving the same speed, it is a rake job. How else do these guys generate 170+ mph ball speeds with clubhead speeds of 118 - 120 mph? There is no way that you can slow down your swing enough to create ball speed that is identical to club speed. Sorry, that's simple physics.

[Titleist 670]

Ruling was fine by the letter of the law.

 

Do I think Tiger is telling the truth that he didn't feel a double hit? I'm on the fence on that.

 

If Tiger told someone he could detect a 5rpm difference in spin from a different golf ball, his fans would be overjoyed and say that's how great Tiger is.

 

I don't see how a professional golfer would not feel something funny the way Tiger hit that ball, but oh well.

[Marco]

This is ridiculous. How can he generate enough speed in that short of a space to have the ball not appear to "stick" to the face unintentionally. The club speed and ball speed were probably close to identical, nothing he could do.

 

If the club speed and ball speed are identical, then there has not been a proper strike on the ball. That would be more of a scoop. Or, shove. Or, rake.

 

Or, maybe, a drag. Kinda' like this thread.

 

Not true at all, especially with a glancing blow of a lofted wedge or in this case a hooded wedge flicked with the wrists. It's exactly why some radar based launch monitors have trouble with pitches indoors, the club and the ball speeds are very close in those cases.

 

I disagree. For there to be a proper strike on the ball, the club head has to be moving at a speed sufficient to cause the ball to compress, however slightly, and rebound off of the clubface. If they are moving the same speed, it is a rake job. How else do these guys generate 170+ mph ball speeds with clubhead speeds of 118 - 120 mph? There is no way that you can slow down your swing enough to create ball speed that is identical to club speed. Sorry, that's simple physics.

 

hmm no look at putting lol

 

Ruling was fine by the letter of the law.

 

Do I think Tiger is telling the truth that he didn't feel a double hit? I'm on the fence on that.

 

If Tiger told someone he could detect a 5rpm difference in spin from a different golf ball, his fans would be overjoyed and say that's how great Tiger is.

 

I don't see how a professional golfer would not feel something funny the way Tiger hit that ball, but oh well.

 

cause its a crappy lie and in a bush...

[Krt22]

This is ridiculous. How can he generate enough speed in that short of a space to have the ball not appear to "stick" to the face unintentionally. The club speed and ball speed were probably close to identical, nothing he could do.

 

If the club speed and ball speed are identical, then there has not been a proper strike on the ball. That would be more of a scoop. Or, shove. Or, rake.

 

Or, maybe, a drag. Kinda' like this thread.

 

Not true at all, especially with a glancing blow of a lofted wedge or in this case a hooded wedge flicked with the wrists. It's exactly why some radar based launch monitors have trouble with pitches indoors, the club and the ball speeds are very close in those cases.

 

I disagree. For there to be a proper strike on the ball, the club head has to be moving at a speed sufficient to cause the ball to compress, however slightly, and rebound off of the clubface. If they are moving the same speed, it is a rake job. How else do these guys generate 170+ mph ball speeds with clubhead speeds of 118 - 120 mph? There is no way that you can slow down your swing enough to create ball speed that is identical to club speed. Sorry, that's simple physics.

 

In that case you don't understand the "simple physics" of what's going on during a golf shot, comparing a full driver ( a club with a maxed out COR) to a wedge is silly. What do you think happens when Phil takes a huge swing with an LW and the ball pops up 10ft in the air? Compression is directly related to loft presented at impact, which is why smash factor increases as loft decreases. When it's a glancing blow there is very little compression and smash factors approach 1(ie club and ball are traveling the same speed)

[Matt J]

I've played a fraction of the number of rounds as El Tigre and had I taken that stance, with that short of a swing I would have expected to double hit it.

 

I was watching it live and was surprised he didn't take his medicine with an unplayable. As he took the club back I thought he'll regret this when he loses 2 strokes. From the back, which was the live shot, it looked okay. The front angle camera is pretty conclusive.

 

No way to prove he "felt" it. I didn't know that is the onus.

 

What if two people corroborate that they saw it in real time? Had that happen once in a tournament but we weren't sure what would happen. 2 witnesses were caddies in the other 2 man match in the same foursome.

[ClintDagger]

Not cool TW. You’re better than that.

[OldTomMorris]

"So will Tiger call a penalty on himself at his OWN TOURNAMENT?"

 

It was an opportunity missed for Woods, according to the rules official the video (unusable footage for the purposes of rules decisions) confirmed the double-hit so I'd like to see any player in that position call the penalty on themselves. Come next year it will be irrelevant as a double-hit won't be a penalty but a player could have made a real statement with that gesture.

 

It seems a little weird that most sports are embracing technology to assist rules decisions yet golf is discarding it. The choice to move away from technology appears to have been initiated due to the bad handling by officials in a few high profile rules decisions, eg. DJ @ US Open etc. Not sure its a good move or the right reason to discard technology (stop rules officials looking bad).

[Londoner]

I hadn't seen Londoner post for a long time, he probably just finished eating crow with his friend Sheldon "the fork" jhacker

Prior to this thread he hadn't made a post since October 2nd. Typical troll.

Actually I couldnt get into my account from any Android devices but the glitch has cleared now. But hey you make up what you want.

[golfandfishing]

 

 

Long history includes his version of the fire hydrant incident and the mismanagement of his meds last summer. Both of those clearly contain lies, but who’s counting?

And like another post just stated.... It's like watching guys that have had to hold back the last few months and are trying to get a kick or two in now before he wins in 2019. It's laughable really. And kinda sad. Does every DJ, Phil, VJ, Reed, and many others devolve into off course issues? No. And who the hell cares? This is a golf forum. If he was less than forthcoming about personal issues who are we to demand more?

 

I’m not demanding more, I don’t care if he lies with regularity, he can do that all he wants. But when a guy is the best in the world and double hits a pitch he can tell, and when it happens and he says he couldn’t tell, history tells us there is a good chance he is lying. It’s happened a lot, it didn’t stop when he won at E Lake, which I thought was awesome. It’s a golf forum, we’re discussing if TW skirted the rules again, which he clearly did. His history of lying plays a part in that discussion.

[755]

I hope Alex Noren does the same thing today so we can see if there are 6 pages of discussion about it...good lord.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

I hope Alex Noren does the same thing today so we can see if there are 6 pages of discussion about it...good lord.

 

I think the more pertinent question is whether with the same set of circumstances Alex Noren would have taken the same approach as Tiger.

 

I'm not jumping in either camp here, it's clear there was a double hit / scoop (tiger admits that) and the new rule is clear that you can't use slo-mo. At one level that's fair as some players have more cameras following them than others, but the rub is I'm not aware of any changes to using the same cameras to help source lost balls feeding info back to on course commentators so there are benefits.

 

Personally I thought the shot looked suspect in real time given how far the ball travelled vs length of backswing, how long it took before I could actually see the ball appear from behind the clubface and the fact it came out at a goofy angle, but I couldn't be 100% sure, just that my chips would have been firmly on suspect at even odds!

 

But ultimately the new rule essentially makes it one for the player to call and I don't know what he did feel. Equally I do know that it's something that merits debate regardless of who the player is as a lot of the rules now make the game self-governing. My wider concern is that it's bound to become a reference point going forwards and heaven forbid being the player that loses by one to the exact same circumstances on the 72nd hole of a major rather than a glorified exhibition match.

[imakaveli]

Would have like to see the comments on this board if Poulter had done the same "shot" ����

 

STONE HIM!

 

SHOOT HIM IN THE BACK!!!

 

BANNED FOR LIFE!

 

TIGER NEVER WOULD HAVE GOT AWAY WITH THIS!

 

Nice try but, swing and a miss ?

[Ignatius Reilly]

Did Tiger review the video and see the double-hit or scrape before signing his card?

 

I wasn't sure of the actual sequence of events from the linked video.

 

If he reviewed it and saw the breach, isn't he supposed to call the penalty on himself?

[Titleist 670]

Long history includes his version of the fire hydrant incident and the mismanagement of his meds last summer. Both of those clearly contain lies, but who's counting?

And like another post just stated.... It's like watching guys that have had to hold back the last few months and are trying to get a kick or two in now before he wins in 2019. It's laughable really. And kinda sad. Does every DJ, Phil, VJ, Reed, and many others devolve into off course issues? No. And who the hell cares? This is a golf forum. If he was less than forthcoming about personal issues who are we to demand more?

 

I'm not demanding more, I don't care if he lies with regularity, he can do that all he wants. But when a guy is the best in the world and double hits a pitch he can tell, and when it happens and he says he couldn't tell, history tells us there is a good chance he is lying. It's happened a lot, it didn't stop when he won at E Lake, which I thought was awesome. It's a golf forum, we're discussing if TW skirted the rules again, which he clearly did. His history of lying plays a part in that discussion.

 

If this were Patrick vs Tiger on the last hole, and Patrick did the same exact thing as Tiger & Tiger lost by one stroke, Tiger fans would literally lose their minds if Reed said he had no idea he double hit it.

 

The thing is, I root for Tiger, but on this forum unless you are in his camp 100% on everything, you are a hater.

 

Whether or not you think there's a penalty here comes down to if you think Tiger knew he double hit/scooped the ball or not. He says he didn't know, so we take his word and move on. The penalty was called correctly based on that rule. Is Tiger the first person I'd trust to be honest in that situation? No.

[MountainGoat]

To my eyes, it sure looks like he raked it. Not even a close call.

[baudi]

This is ridiculous. How can he generate enough speed in that short of a space to have the ball not appear to "stick" to the face unintentionally. The club speed and ball speed were probably close to identical, nothing he could do.

 

If the club speed and ball speed are identical, then there has not been a proper strike on the ball. That would be more of a scoop. Or, shove. Or, rake.

 

Or, maybe, a drag. Kinda' like this thread.

 

Not true at all, especially with a glancing blow of a lofted wedge or in this case a hooded wedge flicked with the wrists. It's exactly why some radar based launch monitors have trouble with pitches indoors, the club and the ball speeds are very close in those cases.

 

I disagree. For there to be a proper strike on the ball, the club head has to be moving at a speed sufficient to cause the ball to compress, however slightly, and rebound off of the clubface. If they are moving the same speed, it is a rake job. How else do these guys generate 170+ mph ball speeds with clubhead speeds of 118 - 120 mph? There is no way that you can slow down your swing enough to create ball speed that is identical to club speed. Sorry, that's simple physics.

 

In that case you don't understand the "simple physics" of what's going on during a golf shot, comparing a full driver ( a club with a maxed out COR) to a wedge is silly. What do you think happens when Phil takes a huge swing with an LW and the ball pops up 10ft in the air? Compression is directly related to loft presented at impact, which is why smash factor increases as loft decreases. When it's a glancing blow there is very little compression and smash factors approach 1(ie club and ball are traveling the same speed)

Interesting comment.

How much dynamic loft would you guess here to be at impact in this situation?

 

Screen-Shot-2018-11-30-at-4.01.53-PM-600x435.png

[bigeasy]

Golf is now becoming if the golfer said it doesnt happen, you have to take his word. Their was a golfer a couple of weeks ago who addressed his ball and grounded his club, but he said he didnt make the ball move. TV clearly showed he caused it, but he said he didnt. Same thing happened yesterday, Tiger dragged the ball through the sand,with his club, he had no back swing at all, on his knees, impossible to HIT the ball. But he said he didnt drag, scoop or double hit the ball. Going to be a lot of scooping the ball out of bad lies going forward.

[josh21120]

Did Tiger review the video and see the double-hit or scrape before signing his card?

 

I wasn't sure of the actual sequence of events from the linked video.

 

If he reviewed it and saw the breach, isn't he supposed to call the penalty on himself?

 

He saw the video before he signed his card. He acknowledged the video showed he had made a double hit. He says he didn’t think it was a double-hit at the time he made the hit. And, he did not assess himself additional penalty strokes before signing his card. His actions, and resultant score, are legal within the current rules of golf. You do not have to call a penalty on yourself.

[Vindog]

Golf is now becoming if the golfer said it doesnt happen, you have to take his word. Their was a golfer a couple of weeks ago who addressed his ball and grounded his club, but he said he didnt make the ball move. TV clearly showed he caused it, but he said he didnt. Same thing happened yesterday, Tiger dragged the ball through the sand,with his club, he had no back swing at all, on his knees, impossible to HIT the ball. But he said he didnt drag, scoop or double hit the ball. Going to be a lot of scooping the ball out of bad lies going forward.

 

Decision 14-1a/4 allows for just a half an inch of backswing, but the rest of the wording there doesn't really slant in the player's favor, now that I look at it.

[Anchor44]

If it was SICJAM, the officials would have quickly DQed him because he is a known cheater at golf and life. As for Tiger...well, it is his tournament.

Sounds like a bad case of Tiger Derangement Syndrome.

[Hawkeye77]

Typical and tiresome.

 

The ROG were applied properly and that's it.

 

This "call a penalty on yourself crap" is just that - crap. He wasn't aware of the double hit, and watching it in real time no reasonable way for the armchair antagonists to claim he should have been aware of it and looks like he wouldn't have been from the stroke and his reactions. And it assumes there was a penalty, when there wasn't. Rule isn't violated you don't say, "hey hit me with a couple strokes."

 

Take the pitchforks elsewhere.

[Shilgy]

Long history includes his version of the fire hydrant incident and the mismanagement of his meds last summer. Both of those clearly contain lies, but who's counting?

And like another post just stated.... It's like watching guys that have had to hold back the last few months and are trying to get a kick or two in now before he wins in 2019. It's laughable really. And kinda sad. Does every DJ, Phil, VJ, Reed, and many others devolve into off course issues? No. And who the hell cares? This is a golf forum. If he was less than forthcoming about personal issues who are we to demand more?

 

I'm not demanding more, I don't care if he lies with regularity, he can do that all he wants. But when a guy is the best in the world and double hits a pitch he can tell, and when it happens and he says he couldn't tell, history tells us there is a good chance he is lying. It's happened a lot, it didn't stop when he won at E Lake, which I thought was awesome. It's a golf forum, we're discussing if TW skirted the rules again, which he clearly did. His history of lying plays a part in that discussion.

His history of lying is off the course. IMO. Other dislike the man enough that any question of rules means he lied. To each his own.

[Mr. Grumpy]

Typical and tiresome.

 

The ROG were applied properly and that's it.

 

This "call a penalty on yourself crap" is just that - crap. He wasn't aware of the double hit, and watching it in real time no reasonable way for the armchair antagonists to claim he should have been aware of it and looks like he wouldn't have been from the stroke and his reactions. And it assumes there was a penalty, when there wasn't. Rule isn't violated you don't say, "hey hit me with a couple strokes."

 

Take the pitchforks elsewhere.

 

Exactly,,, a lot here just enjoy dumping on someone, and over the years I've noticed that it could be anyone. Y'all love to be negative, to have a villain to make your life complete, here at least.

A line of credit used to be a handshake, a word...

[dciccoritti]

Typical and tiresome.

 

The ROG were applied properly and that's it.

 

This "call a penalty on yourself crap" is just that - crap. He wasn't aware of the double hit, and watching it in real time no reasonable way for the armchair antagonists to claim he should have been aware of it and looks like he wouldn't have been from the stroke and his reactions. And it assumes there was a penalty, when there wasn't. Rule isn't violated you don't say, "hey hit me with a couple strokes."

 

Take the pitchforks elsewhere.

 

Exactly,,, a lot here just enjoy dumping on someone, and over the years I've noticed that it could be anyone. Y'all love to be negative, to have a villain to make your life complete, here at least.

A line of credit used to be a handshake, a word...

 

Exactly. Like geese on a golf course. They come, they s*** and they leave.

[Tiptx1122]

Isn't it time to leave the rule violations up to the officials. Is this how the year is going to start off with everything pointing their finger. Can we just drop this before this goes any further, nothing is going to change no matter what you say or anyone else.

[Titleist 670]

Typical and tiresome.

 

The ROG were applied properly and that's it.

 

This "call a penalty on yourself crap" is just that - crap. He wasn't aware of the double hit, and watching it in real time no reasonable way for the armchair antagonists to claim he should have been aware of it and looks like he wouldn't have been from the stroke and his reactions. And it assumes there was a penalty, when there wasn't. Rule isn't violated you don't say, "hey hit me with a couple strokes."

 

Take the pitchforks elsewhere.

 

Exactly,,, a lot here just enjoy dumping on someone, and over the years I've noticed that it could be anyone. Y'all love to be negative, to have a villain to make your life complete, here at least.

A line of credit used to be a handshake, a word...

 

What's funny is some Tiger fans were dumping all over Rory page after page in the Phil vs Tiger thread, saying he was jealous and out of line with his comments about the match.

 

When the table turns and people question Tiger, they're all haters. Funny double standard.

[Vindog]

SICJAM?

[Titleist 670]

His history of lying is off the course. IMO. Other dislike the man enough that any question of rules means he lied. To each his own.

 

Tiger will make it up as he goes along with just about anything. It's really odd.

 

Most recently, right after the Tour Championship, he was asked what he thought of the crowds following him up 18, and he said he didn't see them because he was looking straight ahead and only heard them, so he didn't notice them until he got to his ball in the bunker.

 

But there is footage of him walking up the fairway with Rory, Rory says something to him (likely about the crowds), and Tiger looks directly over his shoulder and could have clearly seen the crowd following and continuing to form behind them. Why he said he never saw them, I have no idea - perhaps to further the narrative that he's in hyper focus or something. It was clear as day while watching the tournament, and I remember when he said that in the interview thinking he had actually looked behind him, and there is footage showing he absolutely did.

 

I realize this is way off topic, but there's a reason even some people who root for Tiger aren't going to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes down to his word.

 

Another question is, with the rules officials, why did they even need Tiger to look at the footage? They could have determined themselves that it was only visible in super slow motion. At that point, the only reason to bring Tiger into it was to ask him if he double hit it I suppose? If he didn't say anything on the course, did they expect him to say "yup, you got me!"?