Golf records unlikely to ever be broken

[cdnglf]

Euro Tour says Tiger has 40 official wins, but what do they know?

 

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/news/newsid=176339.html

[lowheel]

Man youre so wrong it hurts. Where am i trying to prop up Monty? Even if you give him the 3 opens which i completely agree with its still what 11. A far away reach from 40 though.If you want to pretend someone who has never been a member of the euro tour has 40 european wins with only 11 of those actually happening on that continent

Who took away any tourneys from seve or rewrite history? He was a lifelong euro tour member who had 48 wins in continental europe including 3 opens. His 2 masters making his total 50 are moot at this point.

Heres the litmus test for you. How many euro tour wins does Dustin Johnson have? or jordan spieth? or koepka?

So does Faldo have 3, 6 or 9 PGA Tour wins? He only won 3 regular titles, 3 Masters and 3 Opens. WGC’s? Rose has a couple, Poulter has a couple as does Scott. Rory’s win counts in his total as well. Are you going to revise everyone’s win total?

 

I dont want to revise anyones totals just add an asterix with clarification. pretty simple really. On paper we can tweek whatever we want but reality exists and we shouldnt ignore it. Its no slight to tiger just reality

 

Faldo also played a full pga tour schedule from i believe mid 80s to late 80s and then mid 90s until 2000. were talking 16-19 events per year so yes as a full time member of the tour for 10+ years its way different.

[lowheel]

Euro Tour says Tiger has 40 official wins, but what do they know?

 

http://www.europeant...sid=176339.html

 

Of course they do, they put forth their new criteria and are living by it but its really smoke and mirrors. For what its worth i would have really loved to see prime tiger play a real full euro schedule in his prime.i think he would have 12-13 wins a year at least. probably 120+career wins

[iBanesto]

Jack Nicklaus' major performance for a decade period.

 

From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus played 40 majors over 10 years and recorded 35 top 10 finishes.

[cardia10]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

[Golfnutgalen]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

 

I think we kind of do have to knock him down. Did you know that out of the 4 Opens championships that Old Tom Morris won from 1861-67 the first two had 8 players in the field and his other ones had 14 and 16? Even Young Tom with his 4 straight wins from 1868-1872 (cancelled in '71) only competed with 8-20 players including himself. It's hard to take any of those records seriously. In comparison Vardon won in field sizes of 63-124 in his 6 wins between 1896-1914. Actually in 1911 it was a gigantic field of 226 for some unknown reason. Still, even Vardon is left out of best golfers lists nowadays and his record often demoted.

[Finbarr Saunders]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

 

I think we kind of do have to knock him down. Did you know that out of the 4 Opens championships that Old Tom Morris won from 1861-67 the first two had 8 players in the field and his other ones had 14 and 16? Even Young Tom with his 4 straight wins from 1868-1872 (cancelled in '71) only competed with 8-20 players including himself. It's hard to take any of those records seriously. In comparison Vardon won in field sizes of 63-124 in his 6 wins between 1896-1914. Actually in 1911 it was a gigantic field of 226 for some unknown reason. Still, even Vardon is left out of best golfers lists nowadays and his record often demoted.

You do know that those 8 players were the 8 best players on the planet

[cdnglf]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

 

I think we kind of do have to knock him down. Did you know that out of the 4 Opens championships that Old Tom Morris won from 1861-67 the first two had 8 players in the field and his other ones had 14 and 16? Even Young Tom with his 4 straight wins from 1868-1872 (cancelled in '71) only competed with 8-20 players including himself. It's hard to take any of those records seriously. In comparison Vardon won in field sizes of 63-124 in his 6 wins between 1896-1914. Actually in 1911 it was a gigantic field of 226 for some unknown reason. Still, even Vardon is left out of best golfers lists nowadays and his record often demoted.

You do know that those 8 players were the 8 best players on the planet

 

Yes. Also the only 8 players on the planet, more or less.

[Finbarr Saunders]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

 

I think we kind of do have to knock him down. Did you know that out of the 4 Opens championships that Old Tom Morris won from 1861-67 the first two had 8 players in the field and his other ones had 14 and 16? Even Young Tom with his 4 straight wins from 1868-1872 (cancelled in '71) only competed with 8-20 players including himself. It's hard to take any of those records seriously. In comparison Vardon won in field sizes of 63-124 in his 6 wins between 1896-1914. Actually in 1911 it was a gigantic field of 226 for some unknown reason. Still, even Vardon is left out of best golfers lists nowadays and his record often demoted.

You do know that those 8 players were the 8 best players on the planet

 

Yes. Also the only 8 players on the planet, more or less.

 

Which would make the feat even greater on a percentage basis

[Forged4ever]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

 

I think we kind of do have to knock him down. Did you know that out of the 4 Opens championships that Old Tom Morris won from 1861-67 the first two had 8 players in the field and his other ones had 14 and 16? Even Young Tom with his 4 straight wins from 1868-1872 (cancelled in '71) only competed with 8-20 players including himself. It's hard to take any of those records seriously. In comparison Vardon won in field sizes of 63-124 in his 6 wins between 1896-1914. Actually in 1911 it was a gigantic field of 226 for some unknown reason. Still, even Vardon is left out of best golfers lists nowadays and his record often demoted.

Great points on all fronts GN??!!

 

Sam felt that Vardon was one of those Champions that would have won in any decade or generation due to his psyche and mental game. He felt that he would’ve adapted and applied the same discipline & focus today that he did back then and while maybe not achieving to the level that he did, he would be in that top tier of Players.

 

I took it that he placed him a tier below Himself and the guys that we speak of in that top-10 but definitely top-20.

 

But who knows as it’s all conjecture, lol, and as Shilgs, Blade & Basic can attest, I’m so biased that it’s disgusting, lolol??

 

Merry Christmas Brother?

RP

[Shilgy]

I hate to knock on Tom Morris, but In those times, there were like 15 entries and 2 sheep. Very different game and not worldwide competitiom at that point.

 

I think we kind of do have to knock him down. Did you know that out of the 4 Opens championships that Old Tom Morris won from 1861-67 the first two had 8 players in the field and his other ones had 14 and 16? Even Young Tom with his 4 straight wins from 1868-1872 (cancelled in '71) only competed with 8-20 players including himself. It's hard to take any of those records seriously. In comparison Vardon won in field sizes of 63-124 in his 6 wins between 1896-1914. Actually in 1911 it was a gigantic field of 226 for some unknown reason. Still, even Vardon is left out of best golfers lists nowadays and his record often demoted.

Great points on all fronts GN??!!

 

Sam felt that Vardon was one of those Champions that would have won in any decade or generation due to his psyche and mental game. He felt that he would’ve adapted and applied the same discipline & focus today that he did back then and while maybe not achieving to the level that he did, he would be in that top tier of Players.

 

I took it that he placed him a tier below Himself and the guys that we speak of in that top-10 but definitely top-20.

 

But who knows as it’s all conjecture, lol, and as Shilgs, Blade & Basic can attest, I’m so biased that it’s disgusting, lolol??

 

Merry Christmas Brother?

RP

We all bring our bias to our posts RP. No way around it.

 

Great to have you back on the board of late. Your posts have been missed.

 

Merry Christmas to everyone!

[youraway2]

The Original Grand Slam, never will be touched. Today's modem recreation is entirely different.

[Golfnutgalen]

Great points on all fronts GN����!!

 

Sam felt that Vardon was one of those Champions that would have won in any decade or generation due to his psyche and mental game. He felt that he would've adapted and applied the same discipline & focus today that he did back then and while maybe not achieving to the level that he did, he would be in that top tier of Players.

 

I took it that he placed him a tier below Himself and the guys that we speak of in that top-10 but definitely top-20.

 

But who knows as it's all conjecture, lol, and as Shilgs, Blade & Basic can attest, I'm so biased that it's disgusting, lolol����

 

Merry Christmas Brother��

RP

 

A late Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

There's a book by the title of "Who's Better, Who's Best in Golf" from 2006 which places Vardon 5th of all time right behind Snead ahead of Bobby which is about as high as I've ever seen him ranked. But it's hard to take that book seriously when it also ranked Tiger ahead of Jack at a time he only had 46 wins and 10 major victories. Sure, I was happy to see that as an unabashed Tiger fan, but looking back on it that seemed very premature.

[Forged4ever]

Great points on all fronts GN??!!!

 

Sam felt that Vardon was one of those Champions that would have won in any decade or generation due to his psyche and mental game. He felt that he would've adapted and applied the same discipline & focus today that he did back then and while maybe not achieving to the level that he did, he would be in that top tier of Players.

 

I took it that he placed him a tier below Himself and the guys that we speak of in that top-10 but definitely top-20.

 

But who knows as it's all conjecture, lol, and as Shilgs, Blade & Basic can attest, I'm so biased that it's disgusting, lolol??

 

Merry Christmas Brother?

RP

 

A late Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

There's a book by the title of "Who's Better, Who's Best in Golf" from 2006 which places Vardon 5th of all time right behind Snead ahead of Bobby which is about as high as I've ever seen him ranked. But it's hard to take that book seriously when it also ranked Tiger ahead of Jack at a time he only had 46 wins and 10 major victories. Sure, I was happy to see that as an unabashed Tiger fan, but looking back on it that seemed very premature.

I bought that book at Half-Off, and it joined all but my top-20 of the other 320+ in box in my basement, lolol. Like you, while I found it enjoyable, I also didn’t agree with a lot of the rankings though this is to be expected in any ranking I suppose, lol.

 

The thing that Pete spoke of was that Tommy Armour(Pete’s PGA Mentor/Internship Pro & Teacher) stated that Vardon was the mentally toughest of the American Players of that era(Armour came over from Scotland after the first WW). He said that he had a very high intimidation factor, almost Tiger like, from his demeanor and how he carried himself and interacted with other Players to his Play.

 

Much more so than say, The Haig, who was really Sam before Sam cuz with the exception of a handful of the top guys, Sam could and would mentally “game” the other Players, and then he knew that if they were ever again in his group on Sunday coming down the back nine, their arses were his, lol. The Haig was similar, especially when he crushed Jones 12&11, lol

 

Pete also said that even though Jones did in fact beat all these guys for his Majors, Tommy Armour more or less scoffed at him as an Am Playing without the financial pressures that the Pros faced, where basically if they didn’t win, and win a lot, they’d better have a nice Club job waiting for em at home. I got the impression from Sam and Pete, that Tommy and even Sam looked at Jones as a great Player but “soft,” cuz as Sam often chirped when his name came up,”The boy could Play but he Played with a safety net that the other boys didn’t have.” Sam always referred to everyone as “boys” in an affectionate way, lol. He also didn’t compete against Jones in his prime as Sam was but a teenager(DOB:2012) when Jones was winning Majors and Jones has stopped competing and only Played occasionally when Sam hit the Tour.

 

Haha, sorry for the ramble, lol

 

A Happy & Healthy New Year to You & Yours?

Richard

[Darth Putter]

Great points on all fronts GN����!!

 

Sam felt that Vardon was one of those Champions that would have won in any decade or generation due to his psyche and mental game. He felt that he would've adapted and applied the same discipline & focus today that he did back then and while maybe not achieving to the level that he did, he would be in that top tier of Players.

 

I took it that he placed him a tier below Himself and the guys that we speak of in that top-10 but definitely top-20.

 

But who knows as it's all conjecture, lol, and as Shilgs, Blade & Basic can attest, I'm so biased that it's disgusting, lolol����

 

Merry Christmas Brother��

RP

 

A late Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

There's a book by the title of "Who's Better, Who's Best in Golf" from 2006 which places Vardon 5th of all time right behind Snead ahead of Bobby which is about as high as I've ever seen him ranked. But it's hard to take that book seriously when it also ranked Tiger ahead of Jack at a time he only had 46 wins and 10 major victories. Sure, I was happy to see that as an unabashed Tiger fan, but looking back on it that seemed very premature.

 

There is a new book out shortly that will use a sabermetric approach to determine the best.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Hole-Truth-Determining-Greatest-Sabermetrics/dp/1496206541/ref=sr_1_21?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546199947&sr=1-21&keywords=golf+players

[Golfnutgalen]

There is a new book out shortly that will use a sabermetric approach to determine the best.

 

https://www.amazon.c...ds=golf players

 

Sounds like a book I'd like to read! Is it okay to post excerpts from the book which are already available in the preview? I'll just type some out instead.

 

This is just a top 10 list, but you can find the rest on Amazon:

 

 

Top 25 Players of All Time

 

Based on the average of their ten best Z scores from a period of twenty consecutive tournaments or less within 5 seasons (four seasons for post – 2012 LPGA Players), unless fewer than ten tournaments were played within the five-year window in which case the window can be expanded to include ten tournaments.

 

Player Peak Years Z score Effective stroke average

1. Tiger Woods 1998-2002 -2.60 68.15

2. Annika Sorenstam 2002-2006 -2.49 68.31

3. Jack Nicklaus 1971-1975 -2.302 68.59

4. Arnold Palmer 1960-1964 -2.301 68.59

5. Yani Tseng 2008-2012 -2.29 68.60

6. Karie Webb 2000-2004 -2.28 68.62

7. James Braid 1901-1910 -2.18 68.76

8. Tom Watson 1977-1981 -2.17 68.78

9. Ben Hogan 1950-1954 -2.13 68.84

10. Bobby Jones 1926-1930 -2.11 68.87

 

Top 25 Players of All Time (career)

Player Career Years Z score

1. Jack Nicklaus 1962-1989 -104.81

2. Walter Hagen 1913-1940 -73.94

3. Patty Berg 1935-1968 -73.21

4. Sam Snead 1937-1962 -68.69

5. Tiger Woods 1997-2017 -64.62

6. Louise Suggs 1949-1972 -60.31

7. Mickey Wright 1954-1984 -59.67

8. Annika Sorenstam 1994-2008 -59.16

9. Gene Sarazen 1920-1951 -58.09

10. Ben Hogan 1938-1962 -53.09

 

Top Dominant Performances in Majors

Player Season Tournament Z score

1. Cristie Kerr 2010 LPGA Champ -4.21

2. Tiger Woods 2000 US Open -4.12

3. Yani Tseng 2011 LPGA Champ -4.10

4. Karrie Webb 2000 Nabisco -3.77

5. Dottie Pepper 1999 Nabisco -3.576

6. Nancy Lopez 1985 LPGA Champ -3.575

7. Patty Sheehan 1984 LPGA Champ -3.56

8. Davis Love III 1997 PGA Champ -3.54

9. Betsy King 1992 LPGA Champ -3.52

10. Henrik Stenson 2016 Open Champ -3.50

 

 

I have an issue with the first two lists because I have a sneaking suspicion that only majors are being included in the tally. Plus, the best player of all time based on a 5 year window which is also handicapped? In the first list Byron nelson is ranked 21st with his "Peak Years" being 1937-1941. Yikes. I know it's just z-scores and maybe there is likely much better detailed info in the book, but my goodness.

[Obee]

I know a baseball record that will NEVER be broken: Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no-hitters. It may be tied one day. It will NEVER be broken.

[Darth Putter]

I know a baseball record that will NEVER be broken: Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no-hitters. It may be tied one day. It will NEVER be broken.

 

A pitcher completing back to back 9 inning games may never happen again.

[Shilgy]

I know a baseball record that will NEVER be broken: Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no-hitters. It may be tied one day. It will NEVER be broken.

 

A pitcher completing back to back 9 inning games may never happen again.

I believe the stat I read was that there were more instances of a non pitcher relief appearance than there were complete games in MLB in 2018.

[radicalpenzo]

Jack Nicklaus' major performance for a decade period.

 

From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus played 40 majors over 10 years and recorded 35 top 10 finishes.

 

This is a crazy one! 10 years!!

[llewol007]

I still say Jack's 18 majors and Tigers run at number 1 ranking will not be touched. Tiger has the only chance to break Jacks Major record and if he does not, that will be intact.

[EmperorPenguin]

I know a baseball record that will NEVER be broken: Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no-hitters. It may be tied one day. It will NEVER be broken.

 

I know a baseball record that will never be achieved: a PERFECT perfect game, meaning a perfect game with 27 strike-outs. Only God can achieve this.

[golfandfishing]

I know a baseball record that will NEVER be broken: Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no-hitters. It may be tied one day. It will NEVER be broken.

 

I know a baseball record that will never be achieved: a PERFECT perfect game, meaning a perfect game with 27 strike-outs. Only God can achieve this.

 

Does this also have to be on 81 pitches?

[Roadking2003]

I know a baseball record that will NEVER be broken: Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no-hitters. It may be tied one day. It will NEVER be broken.

 

I know a baseball record that will never be achieved: a PERFECT perfect game, meaning a perfect game with 27 strike-outs. Only God can achieve this.

 

A perfect game is defined as one where no batter reaches first base. That has been done 23 times.

[EmperorPenguin]

A perfect game is defined as one where no batter reaches first base. That has been done 23 times.

I know that. I am saying that a perfect game by way of all 27 strikeouts has never been achieved. There is no such term for such a feat, so I just arbitrarily called it a perfect perfect game.

[golfandfishing]

A perfect game is defined as one where no batter reaches first base. That has been done 23 times.

I know that. I am saying that a perfect game by way of all 27 strikeouts has never been achieved. There is no such term for such a feat, so I just arbitrarily called it a perfect perfect game.

 

I say a perfect game is 27 pitches with 27 unassisted ground outs to 1B is the ultimate perfect game. That’s a clean scorebook. “3 unassisted” all the way down, all on the 1st pitch. 27 strikeouts is inefficient, why throw all those pitches?

[Superbrit]

All of that list is going to be difficult but Nelsons 18 wins in a season and 11 consecutive wins is virtually impossible today

 

Heck most of the top guys only play a few more tournaments more than 18 in a whole year

[Strömsborg]

At least not in my lifetime.

1. Jack's 18 majors
   
2. Jack's 48 top three finishes in majors
   
3. Jack's 17 years making the top 10 on money list
   
4. Tiger's scoring record; 67.794 in both 2000 and 2007
   
5. Tiger's 683 weeks ranked as #1 on OWGR
   
6. Kathy Whitworth's 88 LPGA wins
   
7. Phil's 1314 weeks (and counting) ranked in the OWGR top 100
   
8. Nelson's 18 wins in one season
   
9. Nelson's 11 consecutive wins
   
10. Nelson's 65 consecutive top tens
    

 

How can you make such a list without mentioning Tiger winning all four majors in row?

because its been done before

Ok. Winning US Open, The Open. the PGA and the Masters in i row. You know, the four most coveted titles for the last 60 or 70 years. Anyone did that before? Will it happen again?

[Dave D]

Ryan armour currently closing in on the consecutive fairways record. Has currently hit his last 52 in a row, 59 is the record.

[Body_Visions]

Trevino played a 72-hole event without a bogey. As far as I know, his is the only one.