What up with Jordan?

[One Putter]

For us, yeah, holing a shot out of a bunker is a bit of luck. For a guy who has literally won golf tournaments on the PGA tour in dramatic fashion by holing out multiple greenside bunker shots, i think there's just a tiny bit more than "just luck" involved.

[bladehunter]

20 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I said he is one of the better putters on tour. Sometimes. For all the flash of the last few weeks he is 55th in SG putting this season. His putting is like what Phil”s short game used to be. It wows you but is not consistent. 
And driving is a more reliable commodity. Making a handful of 30+ foot puts and bunker hole outs and hole in ones to shoot -4?

You know I don’t put much stock in stats.  We can twist  those any direction we want.  
 

but I know what my eyes have seen. And that is a great putter since 2014.  With some bad streaks.  I know I see a top 5 if not #1 shortgame on tour when it matters.  That has also weathered some bad runs. And I see the same wild iffy driver I’ve always seen.    This all adds up to no reason to think that what he’s doing how is any different than before.  
 

The issue is people don’t like it.  People who like the boring game always hate the magicians.  

Edited March 7, 2021 by bladehunter

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, One Putter said:

For us, yeah, holing a shot out of a bunker is a bit of luck. For a guy who has literally won golf tournaments on the PGA tour in dramatic fashion by holing out multiple greenside bunker shots, i think there's just a tiny bit more than "just luck" involved.

Never said it was luck...I said it was not sustainable.....

 

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

You know I don’t put much stock in stats.  We can twist  those any direction we want.  
 

but I know what my eyes have seen. And that is a great putter since 2014.  With some bad streaks.  I know I see a top 5 if not #1 shortgame on tour when it matters.  That has also weathered some bad runs. And I see the same wild iffy driver I’ve always seen.    This all adds up to no reason to think that what he’s doing how is any different than before.  
 

The issue is people don’t like it.  People who like the boring game always hate the magicians.  

I will end my participation with this....

Do you agree that to be a consistent contender on tour he needs to get his long game tidied up? 

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

Never said it was luck...I said it was not sustainable.....

 

I will end my participation with this....

Do you agree that to be a consistent contender on tour he needs to get his long game tidied up? 

Come on man. Not sustainable?  2014 till now ?   We’ve all seen him win draining bombs.  And bunker shots etc.  from his tour inception until now.  
 

 

yes as his long game comes back around he will win in buckets.  But what you need to consider is that he’s nearly won what 3-4 times in the last couple months - with his C+ game.  No flukes here. Just a guy coming out of a ditch.  

[ThinkingPlus]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Never said it was luck...I said it was not sustainable.....

 

I will end my participation with this....

Do you agree that to be a consistent contender on tour he needs to get his long game tidied up? 

He does need to get his driver more consistent.  Anecdotally, though, he has apparently been doing the Jordan Spieth traveling magic show since his junior days.  You hear alot of comments from the guys that competed against him as a junior to the effect that it's "Jordan doing Jordan things".  They nicknamed him the Golden Child (much to his chagrin) for a reason.

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Come on man. Not sustainable?  2014 till now ?   We’ve all seen him win draining bombs.  And bunker shots etc.  from his tour inception until now.  
 

 

yes as his long game comes back around he will win in buckets.  But what you need to consider is that he’s nearly won what 3-4 times in the last couple months - with his C+ game.  No flukes here. Just a guy coming out of a ditch.  

He amost fell out of the top 100 with the game you describe.

But yes, he appears to be climbing out of the deep hole.

[bladehunter]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

He amost fell out of the top 100 with the game you describe.

But yes, he appears to be climbing out of the deep hole.

We agree there. It highlights the importance of mental game.  Both strength and resilience.  A weaker mind would have retired.  Or started drinking , to bring  Tom back into it.  But he’s soldiered on.  
 

 

no doubt he’s not at A + yet.  But the trend says all the doubters were just dancing on the grave of a guy who isn’t dead.  

[Titleist_PT23]

I think the guy is back.  He's playing tough courses well.  We cannot look at all his bad shots and ignore all his good shots (this is the opposite of what most people do in life).  There is good and bad for everyone in every round, and when you add up the totals he's playing extremely well on all types of courses.  Previously, he could show some flashes at the WMO type tracks and would get eaten up at Riviera/Bay Hill.  Not now.

 

Driver is still a liability more so than the 2015-2017 period, and I'm not sure what this will mean (relative to the past).

 

If you follow the LPGA, Lydia Ko is also having a resurgence (driver still worse than before too though).  Her swing path looks to be a lot more neutral again (vs. trying to whip a draw), and she appears to simply be "playing golf" vs thinking about 10,000 different things.  Each are far from perfect (or peak Tiger) but they are both just that good.

[grm24]

2 hours ago, agolf1 said:

I think the guy is back.  He's playing tough courses well.

Jordan had the same type of hot streak back in May 2019. 3 top 8 finishes in 4 weeks including the PGA @ Bethpage and The Memorial. Many many people claimed at that point he was back! Without a doubt. The his game cratered. He needs to continue this level of play and win an event. Until then to quote Judge Smails.... Well we're waiting. He fell apart the last 4 holes today.

[bladehunter]

25 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Jordan had the same type of hot streak back in May 2019. 3 top 8 finishes in 4 weeks including the PGA @ Bethpage and The Memorial. Many many people claimed at that point he was back! Without a doubt. The his game cratered. He needs to continue this level of play and win an event. Until then to quote Judge Smails.... Well we're waiting. He fell apart the last 4 holes today.

Mostly true.   But he clipped Rory by a couple today and nobody started a “ what’s wrong with rors thread “.   So again.  Partial point taken  and partially just people who hate the kid enjoying his struggles.  He did falter on the par 5 3 putt late. But it was apparent after the 10th hole or so that without a Bryson blowup , winning wasn’t mathematically within reach.  So not a blowup as  in contention and choked. Just a “ lost some placement money “ 3 putt.  All from a bad break on the approach that landed on the ridge and for some reason fed left instead of toward the hole.  Further proving that he gets his fair share of bad breaks too. 

[mizuno player]

Jordan making long putts and hole outs from bunkers and around the green in my opinion aren't luck or fluke. It happens too often to be luck. So what if it happens more than other players. He's a good putter that has bad days. He makes more long putts than others. It's not luck. 

 

Is he back? I think he's back to swinging like Jordan. Not trying to hit it further than his normal swing can hit it. His normal is long enough. 

[straightshot7]

36 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Mostly true.   But he clipped Rory by a couple today and nobody started a “ what’s wrong with rors thread “.   So again.  Partial point taken  and partially just people who hate the kid enjoying his struggles.  He did falter on the par 5 3 putt late. But it was apparent after the 10th hole or so that without a Bryson blowup , winning wasn’t mathematically within reach.  So not a blowup as  in contention and choked. Just a “ lost some placement money “ 3 putt.  All from a bad break on the approach that landed on the ridge and for some reason fed left instead of toward the hole.  Further proving that he gets his fair share of bad breaks too. 

this thread wasn’t started because of one bad round...

 

If Rory went 1-2 seasons without winning a tournament, there would definitely be a “what’s up with Rory?” thread.

 

Whether you love Jordan or hate him, the results speak for themselves. He is playing better but it doesn’t appear he will ever have the results he had in 2015-2017. And it remains to be seen if he even can win consistently at all again. Let alone in Majors. 

I do respect that he hasn’t given up. Obviously he has enough money to just walk away if wanted to. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by straightshot7

[PowerFade36]

Almost back. Not all the way. He hasn't played well on a Sunday yet.  

Hoping this will change next week at the Players.

[GolfTurkey]

3 hours ago, agolf1 said:

If you follow the LPGA, Lydia Ko is also having a resurgence (driver still worse than before too though).  Her swing path looks to be a lot more neutral again (vs. trying to whip a draw), and she appears to simply be "playing golf" vs thinking about 10,000 different things.

 

[grm24]

57 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Mostly true.   But he clipped Rory by a couple today and nobody started a “ what’s wrong with rors thread “.   So again.  Partial point taken  and partially just people who hate the kid enjoying his struggles.  He did falter on the par 5 3 putt late. But it was apparent after the 10th hole or so that without a Bryson blowup , winning wasn’t mathematically within reach.  So not a blowup as  in contention and choked. Just a “ lost some placement money “ 3 putt.  All from a bad break on the approach that landed on the ridge and for some reason fed left instead of toward the hole.  Further proving that he gets his fair share of bad breaks too. 

It's all true. People have been complaining about Rory regarding his wedges and putting for years. Probably even yourself. I have nothing against Jordan and hope he wins again. After the 10th hole Jordan was -9. BDC won at -11. To say Jordan didn't have a chance to win after the 10th hole is just folly.

 

BDC parred his last 12 holes with some enormous par saves. This event was there for the taking. Jordan, Westwood and Connors couldn't come through. Especially Westwood having a putt to tie on 16. And Jordan bogeying 3 of his last 4 holes and 3 putting an easy par 5. Connor spit the bit on the last two holes after making eagle on 16.

 

Hideki Matsuyama hasn't won the the PGA Tour in 4 seasons and nobody complains about him being in a slump. Likely due to the fact he is in the top 25 in the OWGR and has enough high finishes to keep his ranking up unlike Jordan and Rickie.

Edited March 8, 2021 by grm24

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, grm24 said:

It's all true. People have been complaining about Rory regarding his wedges and putting for years. Probably even yourself. I have nothing against Jordan and hope he wins again. After the 10th hole Jordan was -9. BDC won at -11. To say Jordan didn't have a chance to win after the 10th hole is just folly.

 

BDC parred his last 12 holes with some enormous par saves. This event was there for the taking. Jordan, Westwood and Connors couldn't come through. Especially Westwood having a putt to tie on 16. And Jordan bogeying 3 of his last 4 holes and 3 putting an easy par 5.

 

Hideki Matsuyama hasn't won the the PGA Tour in 4 seasons and nobody complains about him being in a slump. Likely due to the fact he is in the top 25 in the OWGR and has enough high finishes to keep his ranking up unlike Jordan and Rickie.

I disagree on today.  The only heat Bryson was given was from Westwood.  And he’s as hot as an ice cube. With Bryson’s length you count par 5s as auto birdie.  So thinking ahead he was realistically 4/5 shots clear of Jordan by the putt falling on 11.  Jordan needed a 3-4 under back 9 .  After the cold front we knew that wasn’t likely.  It’s just math.  He pressed and went backwards.  That’s how it works.  Press on a off day and you backup.  
 

I’m not defending his game with that.  I’m saying that the back 9 was a snooze fest.  As the winner was already known.  Westwood’s middle name is Choke.  And I genuinely pull for the guy.  I do.  But he isn’t going to win with putter.  He has to be knocking it stiff.  And he wasn’t.  

[SwooshLT]

21 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I disagree on today.  The only heat Bryson was given was from Westwood.  And he’s as hot as an ice cube. With Bryson’s length you count par 5s as auto birdie.  So thinking ahead he was realistically 4/5 shots clear of Jordan by the putt falling on 11.  Jordan needed a 3-4 under back 9 .  After the cold front we knew that wasn’t likely.  It’s just math.  He pressed and went backwards.  That’s how it works.  Press on a off day and you backup.  
 

I’m not defending his game with that.  I’m saying that the back 9 was a snooze fest.  As the winner was already known.  Westwood’s middle name is Choke.  And I genuinely pull for the guy.  I do.  But he isn’t going to win with putter.  He has to be knocking it stiff.  And he wasn’t.  

 

 

People don’t understand blustery conditions on baked greens in flat Florida with crazy overseeded rough......it's maniacal to say the least.....scoring average of what, 76? How many rounds in the 60s? This was a complete grind fest in which coming from behind wasn’t in the cards for anyone......

 

Just checked.....3 rounds under par.....3 ONE UNDER rounds......

Edited March 8, 2021 by SwooshLT

[straightshot7]

But Bryson didn’t birdie the par 5’s on the back...he par’d them.

 

All Spieth had to do was shoot -2 for the day and he’s in a Playoff.

 

Instead he shot +3, which was the worst score among the leaders.

 

Why do mental gymnastics/make excuses for him?

 

he just didn’t play well. It wasn’t about not being close enough to win. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

People don’t understand blustery conditions on baked greens in flat Florida with crazy overseeded rough......it's maniacal to say the least.....scoring average of what, 76? How many rounds in the 60s? This was a complete grind fest in which coming from behind wasn’t in the cards for anyone......

 

Just checked.....3 rounds under par.....3 ONE UNDER rounds......

Exactly. Thank you.  I noticed mounds of rounds in the mid 70s.  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, straightshot7 said:

But Bryson didn’t birdie the par 5’s on the back...he par’d them.

 

All Spieth had to do was shoot -2 for the day and he’s in a Playoff.

 

Instead he shot +3, which was the worst score among the leaders.

 

Why do mental gymnastics/make excuses for him?

 

he just didn’t play well. It wasn’t about not being close enough to win. 

All he had to do is what 90 % of the field couldn’t do ?  Like I said. It was over after the putt on 11 unless Bryson puked the bed.  

[SwooshLT]

1 hour ago, straightshot7 said:

But Bryson didn’t birdie the par 5’s on the back...he par’d them.

 

All Spieth had to do was shoot -2 for the day and he’s in a Playoff.

 

Instead he shot +3, which was the worst score among the leaders.

 

Why do mental gymnastics/make excuses for him?

 

he just didn’t play well. It wasn’t about not being close enough to win. 

 

 

The conditions bro......3 players broke par at one under.....+3 was actually under par! 

 

Rory , Keegan......we could go on and on 

Florida golf in these conditions (overseed rough, rock greens and blustery,  gusty conditions)  is no joke

[grm24]

8 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

It was over after the putt on 11 unless Bryson puked the bed.  

You keep insisting that but Westwood and BDC were tied at -11 on the 14th tee. So how was it already over after 11 holes?

[PuttCurseRepeat]

6 minutes ago, grm24 said:

You keep insisting that but Westwood and BDC were tied at -11 on the 14th tee. So how was it already over after 11 holes?

 

I think he means over for Jordan.

 

OT question: What is overseeding? Fairways or greens, or both? How does it affect play?

[bladehunter]

11 minutes ago, grm24 said:

You keep insisting that but Westwood and BDC were tied at -11 on the 14th tee. So how was it already over after 11 holes?

Wasn’t it ?  Lol. 
 

because historically Westwood is good for a 3 putt about every 5 holes if under the gun.  Again. I love the guy.  But pulling for him is really an ordeal .  
 

Edit ^ to the above.  and yes. I meant more so over for Jordan than everyone.  But truthfully , I’d have been simply shocked if Westwood won without Bryson’s help.  And A lot of it.  

Edited March 8, 2021 by bladehunter

[grm24]

15 minutes ago, PuttCurseRepeat said:

OT question: What is overseeding? Fairways or greens, or both? How does it affect play?

This explains it better than I ever could.

 

https://www.liveabout.com/what-is-overseeding-on-golf-courses-1560943

[straightshot7]

51 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

All he had to do is what 90 % of the field couldn’t do ?  Like I said. It was over after the putt on 11 unless Bryson puked the bed.  

So you don't think Spieth was capable of shooting 70 today? 

 

Yeah, generally you have to do what 90% of the field couldn't do in order to win...isn't that why we're in this thread. Waiting for his next win?

At least he could have shot 72 or 71, no?

 

He threw up a 75. 

 

When you say things like "it was over, so he was pressing and that's why he made the bogeys" (paraphrasing), that is just an opinion. That's pure conjecture. 

 

I could just as easily say he made the bogeys because he is mentally weak. Or he made them because his swing has glaring flaws that come out under pressure.

 

The only fact we know is that he shot 75. And 70 would have made a Playoff. Why the excuses...

 

Also, Spieth now has a pattern of high scoring Sunday's or high scoring weekends. It's not like this was an isolated incident. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by straightshot7

[straightshot7]

41 minutes ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

The conditions bro......3 players broke par at one under.....+3 was actually under par! 

 

Rory , Keegan......we could go on and on 

Florida golf in these conditions (overseed rough, rock greens and blustery,  gusty conditions)  is no joke

We are talking about Jordan Spieth...isn't he supposed to be one of the best players of this generation? If not the best?

Are you saying whenever the conditions are tough I should expect him to shoot 75?

70 gets him into a Playoff today.

I just don't want to hear excuses about how he only made the bogeys because it was already over so he was pressing because there was no way he was going to beat Bryson on the back nine...

 

Why are we bothering to have this thread if there's no way he can shoot a 70 in tough conditions or if he just packs it in when facing Bryson? That's baloney, he just didn't play well.

[rafal]

He was -11 midway thru Sat round.   Got +5 last 27 holes on the business end of the tournament.  That's not good enough and he knows it.

[bladehunter]

44 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

So you don't think Spieth was capable of shooting 70 today? 

 

Yeah, generally you have to do what 90% of the field couldn't do in order to win...isn't that why we're in this thread. Waiting for his next win?

At least he could have shot 72 or 71, no?

 

He threw up a 75. 

 

When you say things like "it was over, so he was pressing and that's why he made the bogeys" (paraphrasing), that is just an opinion. That's pure conjecture. 

 

I could just as easily say he made the bogeys because he is mentally weak. Or he made them because his swing has glaring flaws that come out under pressure.

 

The only fact we know is that he shot 75. And 70 would have made a Playoff. Why the excuses...

 

Also, Spieth now has a pattern of high scoring Sunday's or high scoring weekends. It's not like this was an isolated incident. 

Lol.  Sure.  He could have shot 70 . All takes is a few putts to drop.   But you assume that Bryson birdies two more on the back ( par 5s) So he’d have to have his goal at 68.  
 

 

all I said was that nobody shot what you said was needed to come form behind and do it.  So ? What .....how does that make him done and the rest of the field good to go for next week ?  Sure.  You’ll cite the slump to move the goal posts.  But I’m talking  about today.  
 

like i said. Without a blowup this was over early.  Nobody , Jordan included was going to make any ground up.  And the one guy within reach ain’t known for reaching.  
 

And to add -  the old “ excuses “ routine always gets to me.  Sometimes they are Just obvious reasons.  Excuses are made up things.  Anybody could see that he was being very aggressive on the back 9.   Bunker shot nearly holed but ran by 10 ft , approach nearly holed but ran off the back , par 5 approach misses ridge to feed to the hole by a foot , because it was too hot coming in.   But hey.  Excuses right?  The whole field just didn’t score because , they choked ?   Or , is it as I said.  Nobody could move because of conditions , and The ones  who tried backed up.    Just look at the leaderboard. It’s easy to see who played for pars and who didn’t.  

Edited March 8, 2021 by bladehunter

[BombinJim]

IMO Jordan’s putter was the culprit. Saturday he was draining putts but Sunday it seemed he left more than a few on the table which could’ve changed the tide in his round. Making putts takes pressure off the other aspects of his game and it didn’t happen on Sunday.