What up with Jordan?

[NRJyzr]

1 minute ago, dlygrisse said:

For three years people have been saying he’s got to eliminate the 2 way miss. For three rounds he has and he’s playing great golf. He’s playing a miss to take trouble out of play, but he’s “losing strokes”. All I’m saying is some stats don’t explain what is really going on. 
 

so anyone who says he’s driving it poorly based on those stats IS using it incorrectly.  
 

I completely understand it, that’s why I think it’s a very misleading stat. 

 

I don't think it's misleading at all.  What I might consider misleading is saying that "he's driving it poorly" based on -1.4 SG Driving.  It's below average, but I wouldn't label it as poor, at least based on that number.  It's less than a half shot per round.  <shrug>

 

For whatever that's worth.  🙂

 

[canonlbp430]

9 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

For three years people have been saying he’s got to eliminate the 2 way miss. For three rounds he has and he’s playing great golf. He’s playing a miss to take trouble out of play, but he’s “losing strokes”. All I’m saying is some stats don’t explain what is really going on. 
 

so anyone who says he’s driving it poorly based on those stats IS using it incorrectly.  
 

I completely understand it, that’s why I think it’s a very misleading stat. 

Losing strokes off the tee doesn’t mean that it’s impossible to play well. It just means that you must make up for it in other ways, which he is. 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, Stonebridge said:

The stats don’t support this statement.

You do realize that Butch and Jordan are not working together and have never worked together, right?

[adeangelis]

19 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You do realize that Butch and Jordan are not working together and have never worked together, right?

Well, that depends on what you consider “working together” 

[gvogel]

14 hours ago, mizunoMP14 said:

It’s amazing he is losing strokes off the tee and still leading. 

He's playing the only course on Tour where he can get away with being last in driving accuracy and still lead the tournament.  When he misses the fairway he gets a nice lie on the desert, not buried in tall grass, or behind a tree.

 

Just sayin'.

[dlygrisse]

37 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You do realize that Butch and Jordan are not working together and have never worked together, right?

I thought I read he saw Butch while in Vegas and Butch took a look at what he was doing.  Maybe gave him a few pointers.   I think Butch has a lot of respect for McCormack and is showing professional courtesy. 

[nsxguy]

42 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I don't think it's misleading at all.  What I might consider misleading is saying that "he's driving it poorly" based on -1.4 SG Driving.  It's below average, but I wouldn't label it as poor, at least based on that number.  It's less than a half shot per round.  <shrug>

 

For whatever that's worth.  🙂

 

 

See below

 

8 minutes ago, gvogel said:

He's playing the only course on Tour where he can get away with being last in driving accuracy and still lead the tournament.  When he misses the fairway he gets a nice lie on the desert, not buried in tall grass, or behind a tree.

 

Just sayin'.

 

I couldn't find the stats saying he's last in driving accuracy for THIS tournament.

 

But assuming this is true, here's why stats can be misleading.

 

NRJ suggests with the stat that Jordan is (OK, he said "might) NOT "driving it poorly" based on -1.4 SG Driving. 

 

But if he's last, or even close to the bottom, in driving accuracy I can't understand how anybody could suggest he ISN'T "driving it poorly" relative to the rest of the field.

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

24 minutes ago, adeangelis said:

Well, that depends on what you consider “working together” 

No, it depends on what Butch considers working together.  He adamantly denied he and Jordan were working  together.

[NRJyzr]

5 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

But if he's last, or even close to the bottom, in driving accuracy I can't understand how anybody could suggest he ISN'T "driving it poorly" relative to the rest of the field.

 

 

The distance from the mean.  If you're DFL at -1.7 (making it up), it's entirely different than being DFL at -5.

 

Or maybe it's that I have a different gradation scale.  LOL

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by NRJyzr

[ThinkingPlus]

7 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I thought I read he saw Butch while in Vegas and Butch took a look at what he was doing.  Maybe gave him a few pointers.   I think Butch has a lot of respect for McCormack and is showing professional courtesy. 

As I mentioned earlier, Jordan wanted Butch to look at what he and Cameron were working on to get confirmation it was a good path.  I think Butch mentioned one minor additional tweak he thought would help.

[adeangelis]

11 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

No, it depends on what Butch considers working together.  He adamantly denied he and Jordan were working  together.

I mean, Jordan went to Butches home in Vegas to check things he was working on with Cam. I wouldn’t say that’s not working together. Even in a small capacity. 

[bladehunter]

6 hours ago, grm24 said:

Nope. Not even close to being accurate.

Clearly it was hyperbole.   Sarcasm and a bit of tongue in cheek rolled into one.  I even cited which color smoke came out the chimney as a deciding factor.  Come on. 

[bladehunter]

22 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

As I mentioned earlier, Jordan wanted Butch to look at what he and Cameron were working on to get confirmation it was a good path.  I think Butch mentioned one minor additional tweak he thought would help.

I’d venture a large wager that what Butch offered was mostly a mental reset/wake up call.  He’s a guy who just has that gift.  Great teachers do.   I don’t dislike cam.  But.  He’s a tad too touchy feely for me.  Which probably works well for junior players.  He hand holds and pets too much. Sometimes what someone needs is a good hard kick in the rump to dislodge ones head.  I’m including myself in that.   And I don’t think Cam has the ability to do that.  

[NRJyzr]

33 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Sometimes what someone needs is a good hard kick in the rump to dislodge ones head.

 

Wanted to chime in on this point...   this is something that works for some folks, but for others, it can be exactly the wrong thing to do.  Speaking personally, it generally doesn't work well for me; when some have gone that route with me, I have tended to tune them out.

 

Perhaps Mr Spieth is like that?  Perhaps Cam is like that himself, and so doesn't go that route?

 

Who knows, maybe it's all just a biorhythm thing.    🙄

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by NRJyzr

[bladehunter]

41 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Wanted to chime in on this point...   this is something that works for some folks, but for others, it can be exactly the wrong thing to do.  Speaking personally, it generally doesn't work well for me; when some have gone that route with me, I have tended to tune them out.

 

Perhaps Mr Spieth is like that?  Perhaps Cam is like that himself, and so doesn't go that route?

 

Who knows, maybe it's all just a biorhythm thing.    🙄

 

Could be.   I should have added the caveat. Not just anyone can provide the kick.  For me if I don’t already respect you it will have the opposite effect.  So yep. I get that side too. 

[Stonebridge]

4 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You do realize that Butch and Jordan are not working together and have never worked together, right?

The information provided by Butch has definitely helped Jordan. Clearly moving in a better direction, than with the theories provided by McCormick for the last 3 years.

[Shilgy]

7 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Exactly why stats can lie. He thrives off of that stuff. 

 

7 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Exactly why stats can lie. He thrives off of that stuff. 

When he’s dropping 30 footers, yes. Saturday’s “great” round was largely a mirage. 

[Titleist_PT23]

3 hours ago, Stonebridge said:

The information provided by Butch has definitely helped Jordan. Clearly moving in a better direction, than with the theories provided by McCormick for the last 3 years.

Most likely he told him to get it in play off the tee.  Same thing he tried to tell Phil (which worked for a bit until Phil went back to being Phil) and one of the changes he made with DJ.  May have also told him you're one of ~10 people in the world that have the underlying talent to do crazy things in this stupid game.  I'm 77 years old and have largely retired.  Don't make me think this was a waste of my time (however much or little time was actually spent) a couple/few years from now...

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

 

When he’s dropping 30 footers, yes. Saturday’s “great” round was largely a mirage. 

Nah. He had two eagles left on the lip too.  If that was a mirage so was Phil’s whole career.  Some guys are great drivers and some aren’t.  
 

plenty win with shaky putters and great driving and we don’t call that  a mirage.  

[Arn]

He wants the extra distance from playing a slinging draw, but it just bites him in the a**.

[Socrates]

It's a process.  Unfortunately, his processor shorted out today.

[Titleist_PT23]

7 minutes ago, Socrates said:

It's a process.  Unfortunately, his processor shorted out today.

May be true.  But guys have been wrong here for 3+ years.  Undoubtedly, they will come back and say "I told you so" when it finally happens.  Hardly a stroke of genius insight though.

[Shilgy]

23 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Nah. He had two eagles left on the lip too.  If that was a mirage so was Phil’s whole career.  Some guys are great drivers and some aren’t.  
 

plenty win with shaky putters and great driving and we don’t call that  a mirage.  

Huge exaggeration on your part. Spieth  led the field in missing fairways by large margins...and got away with it at a resort course in the desert. Most courses here in the Phoenix area are much more penal when drives are wide of the grass.

 

Not sure why the course seemed to play so difficult for the leaders today. The weather here is perfect for golf.

[garrifij]

I still say he wins one this year. He's getting back on track. This'll be a something he builds on.

[bladehunter]

15 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Huge exaggeration on your part. Spieth  led the field in missing fairways by large margins...and got away with it at a resort course in the desert. Most courses here in the Phoenix area are much more penal when drives are wide of the grass.

 

Not sure why the course seemed to play so difficult for the leaders today. The weather here is perfect for golf.

I’m just saying that we don’t belittle historically poor ( or streaky if you prefer )  putters like Rory , Vijay , Els , to name a few because they hit it so consistently off the tee.  But if one end is true the other is too.  
 

jordan didn’t blow up today.  He just hit it in the water twice.  But if you notice. He made par on both those holes.  So he hit it very good otherwise. Didn’t putt bad. Just didn’t score.  I think the term is being in neutral.  3 bogeys 2 birds.  
 

by the way. Missing fairways is mostly irrelevant on tour.  I myself count “ fairways hit “ as tee balls in play with a shot at the green.  Because that’s all that matters. 

[sphna12d]

It would be epic if that one comes at Augusta.

[Shilgy]

14 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’m just saying that we don’t belittle historically poor ( or streaky if you prefer )  putters like Rory , Vijay , Els , to name a few because they hit it so consistently off the tee.  But if one end is true the other is too.  
 

jordan didn’t blow up today.  He just hit it in the water twice.  But if you notice. He made par on both those holes.  So he hit it very good otherwise. Didn’t putt bad. Just didn’t score.  I think the term is being in neutral.  3 bogeys 2 birds.  
 

by the way. Missing fairways is mostly irrelevant on tour.  I myself count “ fairways hit “ as tee balls in play with a shot at the green.  Because that’s all that matters. 

Missing fairways “within the corridor of the course” is not a huge deal on tour.  That I would agree with. Many of the poor tee shots this week by Spieth were deep in the forest or OB on many courses. He was extremely fortunate in having open shots from the desert so often.  Typically I expect the ball to roll until it finds a bush or cactus to roll under.

[AmazinBlue]

Just another step in the process.  I don't know what caused his downfall, my guess is chasing distance,  but he is getting closer.  Needs to find a one way miss, preferably a fade and a go to shot that will find the fairway when he has to have it

[00steven]

1 hour ago, garrifij said:

I still say he wins one this year. He's getting back on track. This'll be a something he builds on.

Agree

[Medson]

2 hours ago, garrifij said:

I still say he wins one this year. He's getting back on track. This'll be a something he builds on.

I don’t think his game can win over 4 days. But some top 10s this year is definitely a confidence booster.