New Mizuno irons coming - Tour Proto Pics

[Nismottgtr]

> @thigos said:

> > @larciel said:

> > so from more forgiveness to not

> > MMC-HMB-MB ? or HMB-MMC-MB?

>

> My understanding is the HMB will be most forgiving, especially in the long irons. HMB has progressively longer blade lengths through the set, where as the MMC will be sized like the MB through the set, with some added tech. Check out the picture posted by @TrueWRX - you can see an HMB long iron behind the MMCs which looks to be a longer blade length. Some of the early black and white pics from this thread seem to indicate this as well.

> > @TrueWRX said:

> >

> > Good pic of the MMC's

> So presale in early Sept, but when can we expect to start seeing reviews?

 

"The choice between MMC and HMB should be almost entirely trajectory driven. The forgiveness is nearly identical"

[QuigleyDU]

> @Nismottgtr said:

> > @thigos said:

> > > @larciel said:

> > > so from more forgiveness to not

> > > MMC-HMB-MB ? or HMB-MMC-MB?

> >

> > My understanding is the HMB will be most forgiving, especially in the long irons. HMB has progressively longer blade lengths through the set, where as the MMC will be sized like the MB through the set, with some added tech. Check out the picture posted by @TrueWRX - you can see an HMB long iron behind the MMCs which looks to be a longer blade length. Some of the early black and white pics from this thread seem to indicate this as well.

> > > @TrueWRX said:

> > >

> > > Good pic of the MMC's

> > So presale in early Sept, but when can we expect to start seeing reviews?

>

> "The choice between MMC and HMB should be almost entirely trajectory driven. The forgiveness is nearly identical"

 

How do you know this??

[QuigleyDU]

> @thigos said:

> > @larciel said:

> > so from more forgiveness to not

> > MMC-HMB-MB ? or HMB-MMC-MB?

>

> My understanding is the HMB will be most forgiving, especially in the long irons. HMB has progressively longer blade lengths through the set, where as the MMC will be sized like the MB through the set, with some added tech. Check out the picture posted by @TrueWRX - you can see an HMB long iron behind the MMCs which looks to be a longer blade length. Some of the early black and white pics from this thread seem to indicate this as well.

> > @TrueWRX said:

> >

> > Good pic of the MMC's

> So presale in early Sept, but when can we expect to start seeing reviews?

 

looks like the blue wedge is making a return.

[Foreleft]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @Nismottgtr said:

> > > @thigos said:

> > > > @larciel said:

> > > > so from more forgiveness to not

> > > > MMC-HMB-MB ? or HMB-MMC-MB?

> > >

> > > My understanding is the HMB will be most forgiving, especially in the long irons. HMB has progressively longer blade lengths through the set, where as the MMC will be sized like the MB through the set, with some added tech. Check out the picture posted by @TrueWRX - you can see an HMB long iron behind the MMCs which looks to be a longer blade length. Some of the early black and white pics from this thread seem to indicate this as well.

> > > > @TrueWRX said:

> > > >

> > > > Good pic of the MMC's

> > > So presale in early Sept, but when can we expect to start seeing reviews?

> >

> > "The choice between MMC and HMB should be almost entirely trajectory driven. The forgiveness is nearly identical"

>

> How do you know this??

 

While your question was not directed at me, the reference on ball flight was from another website, which the owners of this website appear to frown on linking to. It confirms that forgiveness between HMB and MMC is comparable, but that ball flight will be higher with HMB, therefore making them more suitable for long iron replacement.

 

[thigos]

> @Nismottgtr said:

 

> "The choice between MMC and HMB should be almost entirely trajectory driven. The forgiveness is nearly identical"

 

Interesting for sure. I could be wrong about the difference in clubhead size between the MMC and HMB. I guess "the site that shall not be named" has tested the different models already. In my experience a bigger club face is typically more forgiving. Time will tell

[thigos]

These are the pics that has me thinking larger/longer faced long irons. Look at the difference between the two HMB irons shown here. Maybe the MMC will have the same progression in size

 

> @mrmikeac said:

 

>

>

 

>

>

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

> @Foreleft said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @Nismottgtr said:

> > > > @thigos said:

> > > > > @larciel said:

> > > > > so from more forgiveness to not

> > > > > MMC-HMB-MB ? or HMB-MMC-MB?

> > > >

> > > > My understanding is the HMB will be most forgiving, especially in the long irons. HMB has progressively longer blade lengths through the set, where as the MMC will be sized like the MB through the set, with some added tech. Check out the picture posted by @TrueWRX - you can see an HMB long iron behind the MMCs which looks to be a longer blade length. Some of the early black and white pics from this thread seem to indicate this as well.

> > > > > @TrueWRX said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Good pic of the MMC's

> > > > So presale in early Sept, but when can we expect to start seeing reviews?

> > >

> > > "The choice between MMC and HMB should be almost entirely trajectory driven. The forgiveness is nearly identical"

> >

> > How do you know this??

>

> While your question was not directed at me, the reference on ball flight was from another website, which the owners of this website appear to frown on linking to. It confirms that forgiveness between HMB and MMC is comparable, but that ball flight will be higher with HMB, therefore making them more suitable for long iron replacement.

>

 

Ok, I apologize if I came across rudely. I was mainly asking where you heard that from as that was not info I had read before.

[Hammer22]

Some neat tech pics of the HMB's. Hope they aren't going to be nicer than the 919F...

 

 

 

[hardcaliber]

 

> "The choice between MMC and HMB should be almost entirely trajectory driven. The forgiveness is nearly identical"

 

This quote is attributed to vosh in the other website article.

 

I would imagine there are some other differences going besides trajectory though. If nothing else, the geometry of the sole and blade look different.

 

 

[marlowe70]

> @CallawayLefty said:

> > @cpeck said:

> > > @CallawayLefty said:

> > > I really don’t plan to fight this one. I think this is just a hard “buy.” 4-Pw of SEL please. Might go with that black S Taper.

> >

> >

> > pretty sure we are only getting 5-pw in the SEL blades.

> >

> >

>

> 3 and 4 are HMB, 5-Pw are blades. But the whole set is called the SEL set. At least that’s how I understand it. So I’ll get the 4 hmb and 5-Pw blades.

>

 

The way I´m hitting the ball right now I should not consider the SEL, but they are tempting.

The sensible thing to do would be to get a set of 3-9 irons and bend the loft 2° weak. So it is easier to include 2 of the more helping clubs (3+4 HMB) and you get some bounce on the irons with even less offset as a side effect.

[hwwong]

Is the chromoly material where they're getting extra ball speed from? Main reason I went with the HMP is for a few mph additional ball speed. But the turf interaction isn't ideal, so I'm wondering if the HMB are the perfect combination of both?

[halfsumo]

This "other site" also describes the HMB as not really made for huge distance like say an i500 or P790 (comparisons are mine) but that they actually dialed back the distance on center strikes supposedly to get rid of hot fliers and just make the HMB more consistent distance control-wise across the face. If this is the case, then basically your choice of MP 20 is going to be mostly trajectory driven: HMB high, MMC mid, Blade low. Forgiveness, head size and feel would then be additional variables to consider in set makeup.

[ASN21]

After seeing the new pictures I find it odd that Mizuno is calling the B in HMB Blade. That is not a blade.

[Warrick]

> @ASN21 said:

> After seeing the new pictures I find it odd that Mizuno is calling the B in HMB Blade. That is not a blade.

 

I read it was for, Hybrid Muscle Back

[larciel]

> @Warrick said:

> > @ASN21 said:

> > After seeing the new pictures I find it odd that Mizuno is calling the B in HMB Blade. That is not a blade.

>

> I read it was for, Hybrid Muscle Back

 

I like this much better.

[jrshelby]

It’s Hot Metal blade

[MizunoMac72]

> @stk123 said:

> > @Nismottgtr said:

> > Really hoping the T20 54° isn't the 56 bent 2 degrees strong like on the T7s. Looking down at that offset kills me everytime i pull my t7 54 out of the bag.

>

> Don't count on it. Mizuno is a joke when it comes to wedges. A complete joke! I had T5s, MP R12, MP R, etc. and they were all bent strong or weak. I always ordered 52/56/60 or 50/54/58, and they always bend the wedges such that offset is completely different from 1 wedge to the next. I swear that they took a 56/10 and bent it 2* strong to get to my ordered 54/8 and then grabbed the exact same 56/10 and bent it 2* weak to get to my ordered 58/12. The offset on the 54* was huge and the offset on the 58* was non-existent. It is really stupid of Mizuno.

>

> I am a (literally) lifelong Mizuno player. Played their irons and wedges exclusively for over a decade. But when I got to scratch and started realizing how the offset is way different from one wedge to the next, it really started bothering me. Since then I have moved on and started playing Hogan TK15 wedges. You were able to order any degree wedge you wanted from Hogan and they had separate molds for each degree (has changed slightly since, now I think it is only even number degrees for wedges with new Equalizer wedges).

>

> Ever wonder why Mizuno only offers 54/8, 54/12, 56/10, 56/14, 58/8, 58/12, 60/6, 60/10 (from a past order of older wedges)? I.e. as the loft goes up, the bounce goes up by same amount. It is because they only have molds for every 4* and they simply bend wedges to get your desired loft. It is a complete joke and an insult to golfers paying $500 for a set of 3 wedges.

>

> Please stop this nonsense Mizuno and I will gladly come back to play your wedges. I still play MP 4 irons and plan on buying MP 20's soon. I love how they have "b" lighter heads for longer builds. But their wedge bending practice is a joke and needs to stop...

 

 

I have loyally played Mizuno irons & wedges for my entire 31 years of playing this great game, I also exclusively played their woods for the first twenty years.

 

I too realised a very long time ago the method they were using to make their wedge forgings, although I can honestly say it has never really bothered me as my wedge game is one of my strengths. To play a Raw Mizuno Grain Flow Forged wedge is just a pleasure.

 

I calculated that Mizuno must have **SIX** original wedge moulds for their **29** loft/bounce configurations, each mould being used to 'bend' the loft/bounce +/- 2° to obtain the desired specification. The original moulds, without any adjustments, would in fact be those in **bold** that I have listed below:

 

45-05 **46-06** 47-08 48-08

 

49-06 50-07 **51-08** 52-09 53-10

 

54-08 55-09 **56-10** 57-11 58-12

 

54-12 55-13 **56-14** 57-15 58-16

 

56-06 57-07 **58-08** 59-09 60-10

 

58-04 59-05 **60-06** 61-07 62-08

[GolfChannel]

> @MizunoMac72 said:

> > @stk123 said:

> > > @Nismottgtr said:

> > > Really hoping the T20 54° isn't the 56 bent 2 degrees strong like on the T7s. Looking down at that offset kills me everytime i pull my t7 54 out of the bag.

> >

> > Don't count on it. Mizuno is a joke when it comes to wedges. A complete joke! I had T5s, MP R12, MP R, etc. and they were all bent strong or weak. I always ordered 52/56/60 or 50/54/58, and they always bend the wedges such that offset is completely different from 1 wedge to the next. I swear that they took a 56/10 and bent it 2* strong to get to my ordered 54/8 and then grabbed the exact same 56/10 and bent it 2* weak to get to my ordered 58/12. The offset on the 54* was huge and the offset on the 58* was non-existent. It is really stupid of Mizuno.

> >

> > I am a (literally) lifelong Mizuno player. Played their irons and wedges exclusively for over a decade. But when I got to scratch and started realizing how the offset is way different from one wedge to the next, it really started bothering me. Since then I have moved on and started playing Hogan TK15 wedges. You were able to order any degree wedge you wanted from Hogan and they had separate molds for each degree (has changed slightly since, now I think it is only even number degrees for wedges with new Equalizer wedges).

> >

> > Ever wonder why Mizuno only offers 54/8, 54/12, 56/10, 56/14, 58/8, 58/12, 60/6, 60/10 (from a past order of older wedges)? I.e. as the loft goes up, the bounce goes up by same amount. It is because they only have molds for every 4* and they simply bend wedges to get your desired loft. It is a complete joke and an insult to golfers paying $500 for a set of 3 wedges.

> >

> > Please stop this nonsense Mizuno and I will gladly come back to play your wedges. I still play MP 4 irons and plan on buying MP 20's soon. I love how they have "b" lighter heads for longer builds. But their wedge bending practice is a joke and needs to stop...

>

>

> I have loyally played Mizuno irons & wedges for my entire 31 years of playing this great game, I also exclusively played their woods for the first twenty years.

>

> I too realised a very long time ago the method they were using to make their wedge forgings, although I can honestly say it has never really bothered me as my wedge game is one of my strengths. To play a Raw Mizuno Grain Flow Forged wedge is just a pleasure.

>

> I calculated that Mizuno must have **SIX** original wedge moulds for their **29** loft/bounce configurations, each mould being used to 'bend' the loft/bounce +/- 2° to obtain the desired specification. The original moulds, without any adjustments, would in fact be those in **bold** that I have listed below:

>

> 45-05 **46-06** 47-08 48-08

>

> 49-06 50-07 **51-08** 52-09 53-10

>

> 54-08 55-09 **56-10** 57-11 58-12

>

> 54-12 55-13 **56-14** 57-15 58-16

>

> 56-06 57-07 **58-08** 59-09 60-10

>

> 58-04 59-05 **60-06** 61-07 62-08

 

This type of sleuthing is why this website is so near and dear to my heart.

[K13]

From Instagram

 

[GolfChannel]

> @K13 said:

> From Instagram

>

 

That’s great, but Jordan’s problems are with the driver.

[KeithM38]

> @K13 said:

> From Instagram

>

 

PW down to 50*....that's some heavy delofting isn't it

[soundedgoodtho]

vj like to make his irons weaker to take the offset out. Makes sense since he’s a big time fader

[noodle3872]

> @larciel said:

> > @Warrick said:

> > > @ASN21 said:

> > > After seeing the new pictures I find it odd that Mizuno is calling the B in HMB Blade. That is not a blade.

> >

> > I read it was for, Hybrid Muscle Back

>

> I like this much better.

 

> @jrshelby said:

> It’s Hot Metal blade

 

Promo says Hot Metal Blade

 

 

[Warrick]

> @noodle3872 said:

> > @larciel said:

> > > @Warrick said:

> > > > @ASN21 said:

> > > > After seeing the new pictures I find it odd that Mizuno is calling the B in HMB Blade. That is not a blade.

> > >

> > > I read it was for, Hybrid Muscle Back

> >

> > I like this much better.

>

> > @jrshelby said:

> > It’s Hot Metal blade

>

> Promo says Hot Metal Blade

>

>

>

 

Not the last time I will be wrong.....

It was in the article on golfalot.com

[icandy]

Saw that the standard shaft on MP20 MMCs with be the KBS $ Taper, does anyone know when this shaft would appear on the Mizuno SwingDNA App / performance matrix.

[Mabyboi]

> @MizunoMac72 said:

> > @stk123 said:

> > > @Nismottgtr said:

> > > Really hoping the T20 54° isn't the 56 bent 2 degrees strong like on the T7s. Looking down at that offset kills me everytime i pull my t7 54 out of the bag.

> >

> > Don't count on it. Mizuno is a joke when it comes to wedges. A complete joke! I had T5s, MP R12, MP R, etc. and they were all bent strong or weak. I always ordered 52/56/60 or 50/54/58, and they always bend the wedges such that offset is completely different from 1 wedge to the next. I swear that they took a 56/10 and bent it 2* strong to get to my ordered 54/8 and then grabbed the exact same 56/10 and bent it 2* weak to get to my ordered 58/12. The offset on the 54* was huge and the offset on the 58* was non-existent. It is really stupid of Mizuno.

> >

> > I am a (literally) lifelong Mizuno player. Played their irons and wedges exclusively for over a decade. But when I got to scratch and started realizing how the offset is way different from one wedge to the next, it really started bothering me. Since then I have moved on and started playing Hogan TK15 wedges. You were able to order any degree wedge you wanted from Hogan and they had separate molds for each degree (has changed slightly since, now I think it is only even number degrees for wedges with new Equalizer wedges).

> >

> > Ever wonder why Mizuno only offers 54/8, 54/12, 56/10, 56/14, 58/8, 58/12, 60/6, 60/10 (from a past order of older wedges)? I.e. as the loft goes up, the bounce goes up by same amount. It is because they only have molds for every 4* and they simply bend wedges to get your desired loft. It is a complete joke and an insult to golfers paying $500 for a set of 3 wedges.

> >

> > Please stop this nonsense Mizuno and I will gladly come back to play your wedges. I still play MP 4 irons and plan on buying MP 20's soon. I love how they have "b" lighter heads for longer builds. But their wedge bending practice is a joke and needs to stop...

>

>

> I have loyally played Mizuno irons & wedges for my entire 31 years of playing this great game, I also exclusively played their woods for the first twenty years.

>

> I too realised a very long time ago the method they were using to make their wedge forgings, although I can honestly say it has never really bothered me as my wedge game is one of my strengths. To play a Raw Mizuno Grain Flow Forged wedge is just a pleasure.

>

> I calculated that Mizuno must have **SIX** original wedge moulds for their **29** loft/bounce configurations, each mould being used to 'bend' the loft/bounce +/- 2° to obtain the desired specification. The original moulds, without any adjustments, would in fact be those in **bold** that I have listed below:

>

> 45-05 **46-06** 47-08 48-08

>

> 49-06 50-07 **51-08** 52-09 53-10

>

> 54-08 55-09 **56-10** 57-11 58-12

>

> 54-12 55-13 **56-14** 57-15 58-16

>

> 56-06 57-07 **58-08** 59-09 60-10

>

> 58-04 59-05 **60-06** 61-07 62-08

 

I believe TXG confirmed this for their S18 line, that they have a wedge for every 4° and will bend it strong or weak to match what's needed.

 

Here is the video, they discuss it around the 7:15 mark:

 

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=fWCx-Ujx2nw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWCx-Ujx2nw "https://youtube.com/watch?v=fWCx-Ujx2nw")

[stk123]

> @MizunoMac72 said:

> > @stk123 said:

> > > @Nismottgtr said:

> > > Really hoping the T20 54° isn't the 56 bent 2 degrees strong like on the T7s. Looking down at that offset kills me everytime i pull my t7 54 out of the bag.

> >

> > Don't count on it. Mizuno is a joke when it comes to wedges. A complete joke! I had T5s, MP R12, MP R, etc. and they were all bent strong or weak. I always ordered 52/56/60 or 50/54/58, and they always bend the wedges such that offset is completely different from 1 wedge to the next. I swear that they took a 56/10 and bent it 2* strong to get to my ordered 54/8 and then grabbed the exact same 56/10 and bent it 2* weak to get to my ordered 58/12. The offset on the 54* was huge and the offset on the 58* was non-existent. It is really stupid of Mizuno.

> >

> > I am a (literally) lifelong Mizuno player. Played their irons and wedges exclusively for over a decade. But when I got to scratch and started realizing how the offset is way different from one wedge to the next, it really started bothering me. Since then I have moved on and started playing Hogan TK15 wedges. You were able to order any degree wedge you wanted from Hogan and they had separate molds for each degree (has changed slightly since, now I think it is only even number degrees for wedges with new Equalizer wedges).

> >

> > Ever wonder why Mizuno only offers 54/8, 54/12, 56/10, 56/14, 58/8, 58/12, 60/6, 60/10 (from a past order of older wedges)? I.e. as the loft goes up, the bounce goes up by same amount. It is because they only have molds for every 4* and they simply bend wedges to get your desired loft. It is a complete joke and an insult to golfers paying $500 for a set of 3 wedges.

> >

> > Please stop this nonsense Mizuno and I will gladly come back to play your wedges. I still play MP 4 irons and plan on buying MP 20's soon. I love how they have "b" lighter heads for longer builds. But their wedge bending practice is a joke and needs to stop...

>

>

> I have loyally played Mizuno irons & wedges for my entire 31 years of playing this great game, I also exclusively played their woods for the first twenty years.

>

> I too realised a very long time ago the method they were using to make their wedge forgings, although I can honestly say it has never really bothered me as my wedge game is one of my strengths. To play a Raw Mizuno Grain Flow Forged wedge is just a pleasure.

>

> I calculated that Mizuno must have **SIX** original wedge moulds for their **29** loft/bounce configurations, each mould being used to 'bend' the loft/bounce +/- 2° to obtain the desired specification. The original moulds, without any adjustments, would in fact be those in **bold** that I have listed below:

>

> 45-05 **46-06** 47-08 48-08

>

> 49-06 50-07 **51-08** 52-09 53-10

>

> 54-08 55-09 **56-10** 57-11 58-12

>

> 54-12 55-13 **56-14** 57-15 58-16

>

> 56-06 57-07 **58-08** 59-09 60-10

>

> 58-04 59-05 **60-06** 61-07 62-08

 

Thanks for your post. And here lies the problem with the wedges. Since most Mizuno irons are 42* 9i, 46* PW, it is most logical for me personally to have a 50* GW, 54* SW, and 58* (or most likely 59*) LW . I find that the gaps are the best in this setup. But based on your chart, you would have to bend a 51* down to 50* (somewhat okay). But then a 56* to 54*, and this is where the problem lies:

 

According to Tom Wishon, bending 2* of loft = increase of 1.5mm in offset or 0.06". Since the wedges probably have ~0.07" of offset to begin with, you are doubling the offset. So your SW now has more offset than your 4i. Then your 58* lob wedge has no bending and half as much offset as the SW. God forbid you order a 59* and they bend a 58* open. You now have a set that looks like this (using 50/54/59 setup and assuming standard wedge offset at 0.07):

 

8i = 0.083 offset

9i = 0.079 offset

PW = 0.075 offset

GW = 0.100 offset

SW = 0.130 offset (super GI)

LW = 0.040 offset

 

You will see a night and day difference between your 54* SW and 59* LW. 58* LW is 0.070 offset, and still night and day difference.

 

And this is the sole reason I don't play Mizuno Wedges anymore. I would love to go back, but I can't. Please Mizuno fix this. If you could make a separate wedge mold for every other degree then it would be perfect.

 

I am going to continue playing my Hogan TK wedges, because they had a separate mold for every single loft. If a small shop like Hogan can forge every single loft, then Mizuno can at least do every other loft.

[stk123]

On a different note, I am thinking of going 5-PW in MB. I am then going to get a HMB as a driving iron. I am leaning towards the 3i at 19*, because the 2i at 16* seems way too little. I have an 18* TP UDI and it seem to go a little too low for me. How will a 16* or 19* HMB compare potentially (I know, nobody hit them yet)?

 

Then my dilemma is what to do with 4i? Should get another HMB or the MMC? What are your thoughts on this?

[QuigleyDU]

> @GolfChannel said:

> > @K13 said:

> > From Instagram

> >

>

> That’s great, but Jordan’s problems are with the driver.

 

It's VJ.

[hwwong]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @GolfChannel said:

> > > @K13 said:

> > > From Instagram

> > >

> >

> > That’s great, but Jordan’s problems are with the driver.

>

> It's VJ.

 

Sarcasm i believe from OP