Reed's Caddy in an "altercation"

[lowheel]

i cant like this post enough.Well played sir!!

[BNGL]

Steuart Walton.

[dropkicked]

 

[bladehunter]

It’s funny.

on a simplistic level , I’m morally opposed to any violence. I’ve seen enough for one lifetime. Yet. I know it is necessary at times , as it is the only language some folks will heed. As has been described here. No way a guy who is ok with throwing the F word around can be reasoned with. Words won’t matter to this guy. Then it simply becomes a matter of how many times you are willing to turn the other cheek . As I understand it we have but 2 cheeks , so it isn’t required to turn and yield forever .

Some context. Where I come from “f you “ literally means die and don’t come back. I’m done with you. Play in traffic. It’s not a term used often , because of Its vile seriousness. But when it is used , it’s the top tier of verbal assaults. It’s not a part of a conversation. It’s a wish of demise that precedes a full stop of all communication .

Maybe where some come from it is a Christmas greeting or a sign of intelligence ? I’ve not visited that part of the world , and have no set time to go there

 

 

[Golfingfanatic]

I think there is a cultural difference between the US and the UK/Australia in that regard. It obviously, depends on the tone, but I would say certain curse words such as wanker/tosser and the like are very much part of light-hearted banter in the UK/Oz.

[oikos1]

This thread has gone from those of you advocating that Reed's caddies actions were ok, to all the reasons when and why it's ok to use physical force, to finally acknowledging Reeds Caddies actions were wrong, and now back to all the reasons why it's ok to use physical violence in reaction to verbally offensive insults.

Talk about manic! I am at a loss for words, which is probably a good thing since someone might want to physically assault me.

 

[bladehunter]

The irony there is that id bet dollars to doughnut holes that you would be the last guy to get trashed and curse out a total stranger at a sporting event. Which is why it’s so puzzling to watch you defend that behavior. Meant as a compliment.

[DON SVO]

 

I think Bladehunter is trying to tell you that he doesn't want to hurt you at all... but if you follow him around a golf course, constantly hurling profanities and insults and refuse to stop, he might end up having to get physical with you. Or Bob Barker. You just never know how someone might snap after you constantly abuse them.

[bscinstnct]

 

 

Reg-gie! Reg-gie! 3 home runs in one WS game ; )

 

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[oikos1]

Thank you. I would also imagine you don't go around shoving people and creating physical confrontations every time you feel verbally insulted. Which is why it's so puzzling that you would defend Reed's caddies behavior.

But that's not even the point. The point is that Reed's caddie is a professional representative of the PGA Tour and as such must be held to a higher standard than the patron. I know you don't like that, but that is how the world works. We expect our politicians to subscribe to a higher standard (at least we should) as they represent more than themselves. I also expect my employees to subscribe to a higher standard when working as they represent my business. That means if they get in an altercation on their own time, that's their business and depending on the circumstances, may or may not impact their future employment at my business. If they physically assault a patron of my business while working, and it isn't in response to fearing for physical harm (and please do not try to insert that into the Reed scenario as the caddie clearly stated why he did what he did and he didn't fear for his or Reed's safety), they will have some explaining to do. And there will be consequences. We don't sit around and say "well, if they say this word then you can punch their face in, but if they use this word it's just a shove".

As a business owner, I have had choice words and insults tossed my way. It's part of the deal. Can't make everyone happy all of the time. Not once have I resorted to physical confrontations. To me, the distinction is professional vs patron and the professional must always strive to be the better person. Quite frankly, that is part of being professional.

I hope that makes my position more clear.

[bladehunter]

Exactly yes. 100 %

[Pepperturbo]

As much as I agree with what you said, some of us have limits while others have an endless supply of tolerance or it's... From the sidelines, theorizing how all of us should act comes a bit too easy.

As a Catholic child I learned to turn the other cheek but in 5th grade learned from five bullies there comes a time when you can no longer turn the other cheek. You either turn tail or get in it. I won't go into how getting in to it ended just say, it lead me to protecting others that didn't have it in them. Consequences are just part of it. I believe PR's caddie/relative listened and personalized a lot of crap and finally said enough is enough and he took his consequences like a man.

[bscinstnct]

Yeah, one time these kids try to steal my apricot fruit roll up and I was like

 

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[bladehunter]

That does help me understand your position. I’m certainly looking from a contractors point of view , since that’s my business position. Not a walk in , public serving type thing.

We tend to be more “ treat us right or else walk on “ type thinking. I used to put up with some bad characters , and one day I stopped. And I’m zero tolerance now. Get stupid and get ghosted. We will deliver your half done project plus refund without notice and drive home with a smile. Subject to terminate without notice is in the contract you sign. Only had to do that twice. But... Life is too short in my opinion to deal with the undesirables. And we’ve never had a happier work space.

 

Anyway. Yes. I get you in that lone of thinking. But let me throw a side Avenue out. Not for argument. Just food for thought.

 

Take this instance and lay it over your business. What’s the protocol for amounts of this type verbal abuse your employees should take ? And what are the protocols for stopping that abuse ? You have to know these things to provide a safe working environment. Which doesn’t only include physical abuse or harm. But this day and age , mental aspects count. Would you expect a employee to endure it 3 shifts straight for 3-4; hours each ? I doubt it. Would you think that you could possibly be opening yourself up to liability cases by not addressing that issue ? I think at some point you are. Maybe not one instance , but let a pattern emerge and somebody will put the pieces together.

 

Point is. The tour has to act professionally too and pull this back in. The drunk fans I’m meaning.

[bscinstnct]

Call me all the names you want but if you nuke fish in the workplace microwave, I be like

[Sean2]

I don't think you can conflate that kind of behavior with some airhead outside the ropes yelling nonsense. Sure, no one likes to be called names, but it's not like a name caller is your classmate, neighbor, or fellow employee, whom you see daily. And sure, the temptation is to smote them hip and thigh until they weep and gnash their teeth. Instead of giving them what they want, simply ignore them. But, all that should be moot...people like that should be immediately removed from the property.

[ZAP]

A ticket does not give anyone free reign to yell anything they want at a tour event. That said I am not sure if there is much of anything a person could say to me to get me riled up enough to fight them. They are just words and most of the time they are the words of a drunk idiot. Any form of physical threat is another story all together.

[Pepperturbo]

Like I said it's easy based on our own bias to have expectations of others from afar. Calling someone a name is one thing, and a bit of heckling on a hole is one thing too. But you're overlooking the fact, PR and his caddie had to put up with that all day each day, right up to them exiting the property in a cart.

I agree, people like those types should be removed but management isn't likely to do that without serious provocation or it's Tiger complaining. Years back in Phoenix, Tiger had LE gab one of his hecklers and throw him out. In doing so they discovered he has carrying a weapon. Tiger hasn't went back to Phoenix since. I guess all his talk about if he wasn't a golfer he'd be Special Forces or a Seal is really blabber.

[BeerPerHole]

This thread reminds me of my neighbor. I like Dan. But, he talks like life is like one of those old karate movie where every time some guys come together it must be a stare down, followed by violence...and he's ready to kick ass. Dan's getting old now. I don't expect him to be around much longer.

Back to the story here...I understand that Reed's caddie stepped in when the cussing, insulting drunk started to move towards Reed. Is that what others understand? 13 pages on this thread? Huh... He shoved the guy. Didn't deck him. Spilled some beer and was effective interference...seemingly doing the job that the security crew (assuming there was one) wasn't doing. I only know what was reported, though. I have a feeling the guy with the big mouth and two beers probably had a crooked nose...

[Sean2]

If Reed was being "stalked" by this guy, I am surprised he didn't ask that the guy be removed from the premises. If nothing else, the host looks bad since it is like he is condoning that kind of behavior.

[stingerfade]

The Ryder cup at Bethpage should be interesting....

 

wasn’t trying to quote you LH but for some reason I can’t delete the quote!

[Pepperturbo]

Though I am going off topic I won't be long winded. Your image of Dan sounds unappreciative. I live in SOCA, chasing 70, probably old by your standards, but still work out and keep many of my earlier skills somewhat current. If I am nearby when something ugly happens you won't see me taking pictures or heading the other way. I step in, at any cost, if only to protect those that can't or won't protect themselves. Bad people look for victims that think walking the other way will prevent an altercation, only it seldom does.

Here's one for ya... There are a few golf courses in SOCA where around sunset you may hear gun shots and possibly encounter some bad people hanging out near the course perimeter that see golfers as possible ATM's. I pray you and yours live and play in safe areas and never encounter bad people or need the likes of someone to step in and help or protect because LE may be hampered in arrival time. Have a good weekend and Christmas.

[ALIF]

You just have to take the higher ground and keep your hands to yourself unless assaulted and need to defend yourself.

[Hawkeye77]

Remember watching it on a little black and white in a building on the U of Iowa Pentacrest that night. We were supposed to be working on something else, lol. Nope, watch game then walk pretty much across the street to a couple of bars.

[lowheel]

Reed didnt do anything, his brother in law saw the abuse he was taking for 2+ days and when a guy really got in their space and in their face he protected his guy like family/friends do. 2 things can be right and wrong at the same thing. Kessler shouldnt have done it however anybody with any sense understands why. He didnt slug the guy he got right back in his face and shoved the guy. thats universal code for throwdown or f off. He actually de escalated the situation as the guy shut up and backed off. All the moral preening about "violence" is insufferable. no use crying over spilled milk.

[lowheel]

in theory yes. in practice if someone gets 10-18 inches from your face and says f you or worse. is that assault? look up fighting words in the multiple supreme court cases.if you feel in danger or threatened theres plenty of leeway. it should be a last resort but no point in being naive about it

[bladehunter]

Yes. And I continue to come back to the burden of what is “ danger “ if you approach a police officer . It’s extremely low. For instance. Driving your car towards them might get you attempted murder charges even if you’re just trying to flee. I keep coming back to this analogy because there are sooo many well documented cases , usually with video etc

I certainly think that moving toward one while shouting “f u you suck f-er “ would likely get you tackled at the 3-4 foot mark if you’re lucky. More than likely shot. Why is that different ? Or ok ?

[bscinstnct]

 

Of course you can defend yourself if you believe you are imminently threatened with violence.

 

But I don’t think a golf fan yelling, you f-in suck, while he is holding 2 cups of beer and you get out of your golf cart and walk to them and initiate physical contact

 

Would garner a Supreme Court landmark stand your ground decision; )

 

You don’t lay your hand on a fan if he heckles you. You call security.

 

Can you imagine if all the Euro caddies went around starting fights with all the American RC fans who hurled vile abuse at them? Be a brawl every 2 minutes.

[lowheel]

this was outside the ropes otherwise i agree, with you. the guy got in his face so kessler stopped and settled it. he didnt punch him so no big deal in my book. 2 things can be true at once

[Terry Gold]

Actually,sounds like you are more 'morally' opposed/offended by a certain profane insult than violence itself.