USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[deadsolid...shank]

So again, what, or who, is the average golfer.

[Holy Moses]

The average of every golfer who played a round in a year

[bladehunter]

Right but I assumed only fairways hit count. Isn’t that how the tour counts ? Why would we count duffs in the shrubs ? Real question.

 

Ans yes. A mathematical average is what I’m talking about. Not somehow naming one group as average and measuring their drives. If that makes sense ?

[tannyhoban]

There is no way that assumption is correct.

 

edit: this new format got me again. Not disputing acreage, I have no idea. Will say not the mew ones around here though.

as for the persimmon balata v Modern. No way.

I have seen no one gain 50 yards, maybe 20. Maybe. And they have since lost it, ha.

[bscinstnct]

Blade! What’s happening?

 

This is from 2019....

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/features/the-game/how-far-do-average-golfers-actually-hit-it-123891

 

“Driving distance figures from the R&A and USGA’s most recent Distance Report show that the average hit by an amateur male club golfer is 215 yards.

Five handicaps and below average 240 yards, 6-12 handicaps average 220 yards, 13-20 handicaps average 204 yards and 21 and overs average 187 yards.”

[bladehunter]

Just impossible to know that in my opinion.

 

As far as handicappers vs not. How many non handicappers play by the rules ? And do we care about people who aren’t playing by the rules ? I personally don’t. As in if you aren’t playing by the rules. It’s technically another game. Right ? As in everybody on the golf course , isn’t playing golf.

[bscinstnct]

Now, this is interesting that rolling back distance is being discussed right at a time when

 

That new World Tour is being discussed. While the tour pros and PGA Tour will have the final say on what the players will do. It would be hard to see the PGA Tournot going along if the USGA and the Masters decides to go along with a potential rollback.

 

The new World Tour could have an opening to lure players to their events if they go against a roll back. A lot of the best players are big hitters and may want to preserve that advantage and give “the finger” to the PGA Tour.

 

World Tour be like

 

[bladehunter]

sounds minuscule. But that study shows more what i believed at 215 over there and 220 here as average for all vs 205. Maybe I just misread the 205 ? To me 205 to 220 is not a small amount.

 

But it also I guess I can admit that my bias stems from what it sees , the average 250 more often than not. And I do mostly play with wel below 5 handicaps. ( lots in the plus ranges) And that study shows that. It also tells me why my opinions are usually so odd when compared to others.

 

I guess ill Just let it be. I see what I see. For sure. But I suppose others see what they see too.

[Holy Moses]

You're right, that is impossible. But the USGA didn't even try. When you mail in your USGA membership, they could have asked how far you you hit. Since 2002 when the USGA got interested in this issue, they could have done testing at every single one of their events on the range. That would have been hundreds and hundreds of events with a decent sample size. They could have toured golf courses across the US and tested average players. They could have asked Arccos or Trackman or Top Golf or the PGA Tour Superstore.

Shiels tested 1998 ball and clubs vs current ball and clubs. He got 40 more yards (260 vs 310). He hits it further than the average player, but it's still 20-30 yards of gain over the last 20 years for the average player. At least with that info, the USGA could have put that into their report.

[bscinstnct]

 

Yes, well, if you play with good golfers, not surprising.

Keep in mind “the average” golfer is 54 years old and a 15 handicap so there’s that 204 number coming into play if we are taking average.

[MadGolfer76]

There is only one problem here, not many.

The distance "problem" does not exist in amateur golf. It pertains only to the top professional tours (if you even want to call it a problem). There is a solution there already that no one apparently wants to apply - grow the rough, slow the fairways, narrow the holes, deepen the bunkers, etc., not to mention simply rolling the pro ball back. The PGA Tour won't do any of this because they are putting on a "show" for the public - big drives, low scores, etc. Essentially, the appearance of superhuman feats that can't be seen at local dog tracks. That is their "product" dare I say, and they will protect it with all the means they have available. Their sponsors want maximum attendance, maximum dollars coming in, so there is no impetus for them to do anything different that would upset the sponsors. Essentially, distance = dollars at that level.

The leading organizations (USGA and R+A) haven't had/don't have the guts to compel change at that level. And to be fair, the USGA is a joke, and at the core of the problem because they let things get away from them. So, they come up with overreaching statements about how "distance is affecting the game" and about how something must be done in different areas, when the only thing that needs to be done is they need to grow a pair and address what is going on at the top level. Everything will flow down from that, because most serious golfers (or at least, those who think they are serious) will fall in line from what they see on tv, assuming change is even needed below the pro tours, which I don't think it is.

If they aren't willing to take those steps, they should shelve the conversation and devote their time to figuring out ways for millenials to play their music and skirt dress codes.

 

(Ironically, the issue actually IS about "balls," isn't it)?

[deadsolid...shank]

Hey, I’m finally above average at something. I’m 56. You made my day B!

[tannyhoban]

Honestly counting all amateurs who play at least a handful of rounds per year (jrs, women, seniors, league night duffer) the average is likely 174 yards.

This issue isn't about recreational golfers or growing the game.

It's about a couple of fraternities that want to address tour golf.

Their joint report in 2018 shows how little amateur distance matters. That study probably started as a lark.

 

 

[bladehunter]

I’m with you mostly as a preface. Especially the sheils test and the gains that have been made.

 

But on the USga point for instance. I don’t know anybody I play with who’s a USga member. Not one. The only one I can name off hand is 2 walking seniors we have on our handicap committee. It’s not something that’s as common as you’d think. Especially amongst better players. You’d get a skewed result just asking the USga membership. ( my opinion ).

[MtlJeff]

Ah I hadn't considered the fairways hit part. That's true.

[Holy Moses]

David Dusek’s podcast to Thomas Pagel: “You’re saying that distance is not just a problem at the elite level, but it’s a problem across all levels.”

The USGA just can’t stop stepping in it.

[Holy Moses]

Thomas Pagel was asked what to do with the already built longer courses. He had no other answer other than asking players to move to shorter tees.

What an inept organization.

[Hawkeye77]

Then I'm even more above average - this is making a cold, storm expecting day brighter!

[Londoner]

If you want to dial elite players back, end the fairway and grow 50 yds of rough starting 280 from the tee.

[Argonne69]

Another data point. I've played over 50 rounds in the past 11 weeks, and the average drive I've seen is certainly in the 210 yd range (in the fairway). Most of the serious players are seniors, and are playing 5800 to 6000 yds. I can only recall 3 or 4 players that averaged over 250 vs. 100+ players who averaged under 225.

[tungstenplug]

Is driving distance.....

a) the average distance I hit my driver no matter the result

b) the average distance of my tee shots regardless of club used (excluding par 3s)

c) the distance my ball goes when I take a full swing with my driver and strike it well

[farmer]

The Shiels test is completely irrelevant. Compared to today, the Tec driver is primitive technology, and the ball is dead. No wound ball that is 20 years old performs as it did when it was new. At least hit the old Ping vs the new Ping with comparable balls. Forget about the fitting process, and have him pick an off the rack driver as well.

[deadsolid...shank]

What do you suppose the average age was of all the players you’ve played with over those 50 rounds?

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Agree, I’ve never seen a course that advertises themselves being on “1400 pristine wooded acres” most are about a tenth that number.

[Sean2]

196 for those 60 and over...not sure what age they stopped at to compute the average.

[Holy Moses]

Will the US Open and The Open use the proposed Local Rule? What if the PGA and European Tours do not, will the US Open still utilize it?

[15th Club]

That sounds like a wonderful, strategic golf course to test the skills of players contending for a national championship.

[jmck]

FWIW I play with pretty wide cross sections of ages and abilities—a lot of the time with perfect strangers—and 200-225 seems correct to me for the center of the bell curve.

Single digits is probably more like 230-250, but that’s a comparatively rare bird compared to the folks who if they kept official handicaps would be 18s or above. I’d put the number of golfers who average an honest 250+ at maybe 1 or 2 out of 100.

Those are actual, real world, every drive not just the good ones numbers. If you let people self report add 20-25 to all of them. Can’t tell you how many times I hit one an honest 270 and some guy who thinks he hits it 250 (actually 220) is like “whoa you musta hit that one 300!” Good for the ego I suppose, but the range finder doesn’t lie.

[15th Club]

Moving up to a shorter set of tees is a simple, easy, readily available option at all times. More people should do it. The USGA recommends it.

Where does “inept” come into it?

 

[Londoner]

Better than a no rough long drive contest.