Pro Golf’s Top-5 Greatest Over Achievers....

[TiScape]

On 6/5/2020 at 3:47 PM, Loki said:

Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the greatest over-achievers. You don't get to where they got without out working every one.

I hear “over achiever” and think achieving more success than expected. ie Pavin. ‘The Jockey’!

Edited February 26, 2021 by TIScape

[Forged4ever]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:13 PM, Darth Putter said:

 

Like Paul Runyan and Doug Ford, got it.

Ole Sam "got it" from Paul Runyan, lol
 

Sam never forgot "lil Poison" or that beating that he took in '38 or out driving Mr. Runyan that day on one hole by 102yds(342yds to 240) and losing the hole( an eagle 3 to a bird 4), lolol.

 

He brought that round up the last time that I ever spent with Sam up in Pittsburgh, and then he had the b@lls to say that he "got over it"😂😂

 

Yah, just like he got over his US Open nightmares, lol

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

Edited February 26, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Forged4ever]

On 6/11/2020 at 1:05 PM, ChillyDipper said:

I'm wondering if there wasn't something more to Hogan's personality than just being a d**k. Based on what I've read about him here and elsewhere, it seems he was a fundamentally broken person that had severe challenges relating in a normal way to most people. I'm not a psychologist, so don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

You're spot on🤙
 

For lack of a better word, his childhood was Brutal

 

Cheers🍻

RP

 

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Mike Weir - Shocking what he got out of his game. Every last drop. And he was right in Tiger's prime too. I think it can be said about the following players too, that they got far more out of their games then they ever imagined.

 

Pavin

David Toms

Lee Janzen

Harrington

Larry Nelson - just from the stories, I've heard

Azinger

 

It's funny - I can't think of a player from this generation that is really over-achieving. The path to the tour is far more standardized - junior, college, b-tour, tour. Hard to make it to the top without being good all throughout and there is a level of support for talent that never existed for guys like Weir.

 

If I had to name one player from this generation, it has to be Koepka. One more major, which he is definitely capable of, and he'll have as many as Phil and Byron Nelson. That's some company.

 

If you look at the players that have won only one major there are far many more underachievers than overachievers. And, winning one major doesn't necessarily put you in the highest echelon of overachievers.  Here  is my reasoning. Players like Couples, Love, Duval, Sutton or Weiskopf should have had more and are thus underachievers. If your only victory is a major, like Shaun Micheal... What the hell was he doing the rest of the time? Sounds like he didn't get as much out of his game as he was capable of.

 

I know a lot about underachieving.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Christen_The_Sloop

[Obee]

On 6/9/2020 at 1:15 PM, DrDon said:

I remember seeing Paul Goydos playing #8 at Oakmont during the US Open. It's a long, long par 3. Paul was using driver. Phil Mickelson was hitting an iron.

 

I have played quite a few rounds with Paul. Great guy who is responsible for one of my favorite quotes ever. When plus-cap ams start bitching about bad lies and unraked bunkers, etc., Paul deadpans, "It's a game played outdoors, boys ...."

 

Love that.

 

Much like Tom Pernice, Jr. Paul is just an incredibly skilled golfer from 1 yard to 160 yards. Wonderful ball striker with lofted clubs, solid putter, fantastic hands and concept around the greens.

[isaacbm]

Adam Scott is the biggest over achiever! One of the worst putters  on tour yet still won a major and the Players and many other events?? The guy should be waxing surf boards yet he’s had a 20 year career? 
 

Adam Scott is the biggest under achiever.

Best swing in history but only won 1 masters....

 

See what I did there? 😉 

Edited February 27, 2021 by isaacbm

[Londoner]

Spieth.

Daly.

Duval.

Player.

Pavin.

[Londoner]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:35 PM, smashdn said:

Lots of guys struggle with putting in their later years. Hogan, Langer until he found the broomstick.

And anchored it. 😉

[dlygrisse]

Calvin Peete

Trevino

Hogan

Runyon

Pavin

 

The first 3 grew up in an environment that did not lend itself to becoming a world class golfer. Peete also had a physical deformity in his arm. The last two didn’t have the natural talent to compete at the highest levels and won a major. Both against the most talented player of their era.  (Snead and Norman)

[mat562]

As others have said, this is a tough question to answer, as it's hard - for me, at least - not to succumb to unconscious bias in assessing the parameters that define a player's game and their achievements relative to it. My tendency is to think of overachievers as average or underwhelming ballstrikers who've nonetheless enjoyed solid careers and/or won big events. Conversely, an underachiever, when I think of one, is a flusher of the ball who didn't win as much as they should have done in my mind. There's more to golf than ballstriking alone, of course, but I struggle not to see someone like Pavin, who hits it shorter than I do but gets up and down from everywhere as succeeding 'despite' his game, and someone like Greg Norman, who when I watched him in his prime, won what I'd consider a fraction of what he 'should' have won based on what appeared to be natural talent and golfing ability.

 

That said, and rightly or wrongly, overachievers that spring to mind are, in no particular order:

 

Ian Poulter. An average ballstriker and a short hitter who has nonetheless enjoyed a very solid and successful career by making the most of what he has, through grit and determination, a cocksure attitude and belief in his own ability, and through his gift of being able to pull great golf out of a hat in the most pressurised of circumstances. In pro golf Poulter's perhaps the ulimate expression of small talent coupled with big confidence leading to greater-than-expected results.

 

Padraig Harrington. He's won more Majors than Greg Norman, Sandy Lyle, Bernhard Langer, Jose Maria Olazabal, Ian Woosnam and David Duval. Watch Harrington hit a ball and then say that again. You'll struggle to get your brain to believe it. Again, it's been done through determination, a cerebral and disciplined approach to practice and improving his game, and ultimately through playing solid if unspectacular golf. He's one of the most successful golfers of the last fifteen or twenty years, yet it's all beeen achieved without being a great ballstriker or what anyone would describe as a naturally gifted or natural-looking player. Nick Price cruised to three majors in a two year purple patch and you wondered how he didn't win more. Harrington did the same and, honestly, I wondered how he'd managed it at all.

 

Tom Kite. A money-making machine, and a consistent and solid performer over an extended period of time. Not a great swing, not a great ballstriker, not blessed physically, but the dedication to making himself as good as he could be, and focusing particularly upon his short game skills, meant that he enjoyed a solid career and made himself a Major champion largely by working harder than his peers and boxing clever. A lot like Bernhard Langer, when you watched Kite hit a ball, it didn't look and sound all that impressive next to some of the other players. Then you twigged that the balls were all thudding down in a pretty small area, time after time, watched him work on his short game for a while, and saw the scores he posted, and it all made sense.

 

Corey Pavin. He was a product of his time, in that despite his lack of length he was able to compete at the highest level. In today's game, sadly, we'd never have heard of Pavin. I loved watching him play, and the way that he was able to hit shots from such a seeming position of disadvantage that nonethess compared favourably with those of the longer hitters. He was a magician at shaping the ball, and his short game was stellar. Couple the whole lot with a gritty, bulldog spirit, and it added up to a wonderful player who was exciting to watch and who enjoyed a solid, Major-winning career. Honestly, though, when you're a keen 20 year-old off +1 or so, knowing that your ballstriking is several levels below that of the top players that you idolise, but you're out watching one of the world's best players up-close in a big tournament and his drives are 30 yards behind where yours would be, and he's dinking low, running woods into par fours where other pros are hitting towering mid-irons, you do, deep down, wonder how he's managing to blag it.

 

Mike Weir. Masters champion, and solid career, but not what anyone would describe as a hugely impressive player up-close. A small, quite weedy-looking guy who, a bit like Tom Kite, made his scores with the wedges and putter and through getting the most out of what he had by maximising his strengths and developing his long game and course management in a way that accommodated his short, often crooked driving, and consistently pretty average iron play.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by mat562

[games]

Based on arguments presented, I'm coming around to the following short list of overachievers:

 

Ben Hogan just stands out for overcoming a "brutal" (in @Forged4ever word) childhood AND a horrific mid-career auto accident.

 

Runner-ups:

Andy North - overcame a bad back to win two US Opens plus one minor Tour event.

Ian Poulter - from single-digit handicap club pro to Ryder Cup force

 

Honorable mention to Pavin and Kite.

 

I would add Moe Norman, using today's "lenses" and standards for tolerance of those with behavioral "differences."

Did little here in the states.  Much more in Canada.

Have to believe the shaming and bullying (today's language) were driven by desire to eliminate a competitor.

[BNGL]

14 hours ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

Mike Weir - Shocking what he got out of his game. Every last drop. And he was right in Tiger's prime too. I think it can be said about the following players too, that they got far more out of their games then they ever imagined.

 

Pavin

David Toms

Lee Janzen

Harrington

Larry Nelson - just from the stories, I've heard

Azinger

 

It's funny - I can't think of a player from this generation that is really over-achieving. The path to the tour is far more standardized - junior, college, b-tour, tour. Hard to make it to the top without being good all throughout and there is a level of support for talent that never existed for guys like Weir.

 

If I had to name one player from this generation, it has to be Koepka. One more major, which he is definitely capable of, and he'll have as many as Phil and Byron Nelson. That's some company.

 

If you look at the players that have won only one major there are far many more underachievers than overachievers. And, winning one major doesn't necessarily put you in the highest echelon of overachievers.  Here  is my reasoning. Players like Couples, Love, Duval, Sutton or Weiskopf should have had more and are thus underachievers. If your only victory is a major, like Shaun Micheal... What the hell was he doing the rest of the time? Sounds like he didn't get as much out of his game as he was capable of.

 

I know a lot about underachieving.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

never would have thought to put Koepka in the category of over achiever. He was a good junior player, a stud in college, while he did take a different path by going to Europe he’s still a top talent player and has done nothing but consistently improve. There’s been some injury that’s held him back but he’s a stud amongst your pros 

[Ironman_32]

Really its a just a game of "worst of the best".

 

Top over-achievers are probably more guys like Todd Hamilton, Shaun Micheel, Craig Perks, maybe like a Rich Beem or Jim Herman/Tommy Gainey. Last guys didn't win majors, but worked regular jobs before making it on tour. 

[jmck]

1 hour ago, Ironman_32 said:

Really its a just a game of "worst of the best".

 

Top over-achievers are probably more guys like Todd Hamilton, Shaun Micheel, Craig Perks, maybe like a Rich Beem or Jim Herman/Tommy Gainey. Last guys didn't win majors, but worked regular jobs before making it on tour. 

Don’t forget about Woody Austin! Bank teller to four time PGA tour winner.

[Yuck]

20 hours ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

Mike Weir - Shocking what he got out of his game. Every last drop. And he was right in Tiger's prime too. I think it can be said about the following players too, that they got far more out of their games then they ever imagined.

 

Pavin

David Toms

Lee Janzen

Harrington

Larry Nelson - just from the stories, I've heard

Azinger

 

It's funny - I can't think of a player from this generation that is really over-achieving. The path to the tour is far more standardized - junior, college, b-tour, tour. Hard to make it to the top without being good all throughout and there is a level of support for talent that never existed for guys like Weir.

 

If I had to name one player from this generation, it has to be Koepka. One more major, which he is definitely capable of, and he'll have as many as Phil and Byron Nelson. That's some company.

 

If you look at the players that have won only one major there are far many more underachievers than overachievers. And, winning one major doesn't necessarily put you in the highest echelon of overachievers.  Here  is my reasoning. Players like Couples, Love, Duval, Sutton or Weiskopf should have had more and are thus underachievers. If your only victory is a major, like Shaun Micheal... What the hell was he doing the rest of the time? Sounds like he didn't get as much out of his game as he was capable of.

 

I know a lot about underachieving.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I played several times with two on this list when they were AMs.  Azinger who is my age and Janzen who played on my HS team with my younger bro.  I also played with Andy Bean many times when he was still at UF.  Bean seemed like a can’t miss,  both Azinger and Janzen were outshone by HS teammates.  Both developed quite a bit between age 17 and 22.  (Janzen at Fl Southern & Azinger at Brevard CC and FSU). 
 

 There were a dozen Jr golfers I thought were better than Zinger and Janzen, but at the end of the day, Janzen has 2 majors and a Players, Zinger has his PGA and RC record, and you never heard of the dozen guys we all thought were “better prospects”.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Yuck

[Forged4ever]

4 hours ago, Yuck said:

I played several times with two on this list when they were AMs.  Azinger who is my age and Janzen who played on my HS team with my younger bro.  I also played with Andy Bean many times when he was still at UF.  Bean seemed like a can’t miss,  both Azinger and Janzen were outshone by HS teammates.  Both developed quite a bit between age 17 and 22.  (Janzen at Fl Southern & Azinger at Brevard CC and FSU). 
 

 There were a dozen Jr golfers I though were better than Zinger and Janzen, but at the end of the day, Janzen has 2 majors and a Players, Zinger has his PGA and RC record, and you never heard of the dozen guys we all thought were “better prospects”.

 

 

"He's a can't miss Prospect," 😂😂😂

 

Having Played football though college(D1), I lost count of the HS "studs" who flamed🔥  out at the collegiate level, when everyone was their size or bigger, faster and stronger, not to mention, nastier, which I found to be the most critical trait, at least on the defensive side of the ball as an ILB(Mike). Sticking to golf, and though he did not make it on the Tour, he did get a few exemptions, not to mention four invitations, to Play Augusta in April, though he initially didn't make his collegiate DIII team, however through sheer force of will focus and drive, along with believing in himself and working with his natural swing(a slight loop) that he had, versus the swing that his prior Teachers had tried to ingrain in him, eliminating that loop, and he went on to join Bob Jones as the only Male Amateur to win the same USGA event four times(USGA Mid-Am), not to mention making three Walker Cups as a Player, and he will most certainly get his day in the sun as a future WC Captain, along with those four Masters invites, and I'm speaking of Nathan Smith.

 

Though not in the league of the guys that you mentioned, anyone who knew the game and caught Nathan at the end of the range, beating balls long after everyone had left and the guy was riding back and forth picking up balls after closing with the lights on, would never ever thought that the kid who initially got cut from his DIII team would one day have one of The most glorified CV's in the annals of Amateur and USGA golf(5 Titles), 3 Walker Cups as a Player and 4 Masters invites. 

 

Yeppers, ya gotta love the "can't miss" prospects, lolol

 

Great post Brotha👊
 

Stay Well,

RP

Edited February 28, 2021 by Forged4ever

[mocokid]

10 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Calvin Peete

Trevino

Hogan

Runyon

Pavin

 

The first 3 grew up in an environment that did not lend itself to becoming a world class golfer. Peete also had a physical deformity in his arm. The last two didn’t have the natural talent to compete at the highest levels and won a major. Both against the most talented player of their era.  (Snead and Norman)

If you don't mention the kid raised in a dirt shack by single mom and grandpa, close the dam thread. Poster above did.  LT the 6 time major winner. Nuff said. 

[KRAMER1997]

Stacy Lewis is definitely an overachiever, she was diagnosed with scoliosis while in college and has won 13 times on the LPGA tour (2 majors), has reached number 1, and has been POY twice. Very inspiring player/person.

[isaacbm]

John Daly is another one who fits both the biggest underachiever and biggest overachiever roll....

 

The guy easily could’ve been dead in a ditch in 1989 and nobody would’ve ever heard of him. Yet somehow he managed to win two majors and have a 30 year career in professional golf. Medically, he could’ve died on any given year during his entire career. Hell he doesn’t remember playing half of the tournaments he won! So that makes him a huge overachiever??

 

On the other hand it’s been said of him from guys that know a lot more than any of us that John Daly was probably the most talented player on the PGA tour in the last 40 years. Longest driver with next to no effort, probably the best hands the game has ever seen. Just try to imagine how difficult it is to go 28 rounds in a row on tour without a three putt. Now try to imagine that while being drunk or at a bare minimum hung over 98% of the time!  John Daly could’ve won eight majors and 30 events so I suppose he is the biggest underachiever on tour with the gifts he was given??

 

Its  kind of a fun discussion. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by isaacbm

[erikro]

Furyk 

zach Johnson 

[ChrisL52188]

Did Ben Crenshaw overachieved? And I think Greg Norman underachieved BIG time. 

[ChrisL52188]

1 hour ago, isaacbm said:

John Daly is another one who fits both the biggest underachiever and biggest overachiever roll....

 

The guy easily could’ve been dead in a ditch in 1989 and nobody would’ve ever heard of him. Yet somehow he managed to win two majors and have a 30 year career in professional golf. Medically, he could’ve died on any given year during his entire career. Hell he doesn’t remember playing half of the tournaments he won! So that makes him a huge overachiever??

 

On the other hand it’s been said of him from guys that know a lot more than any of us that John Daly was probably the most talented player on the PGA tour in the last 40 years. Longest driver with next to no effort, probably the best hands the game has ever seen. Just try to imagine how difficult it is to go 28 rounds in a row on tour without a three putt. Now try to imagine that while being drunk or at a bare minimum hung over 98% of the time!  John Daly could’ve won eight majors and 30 events so I suppose he is the biggest underachiever on tour with the gifts he was given??

 

Its  kind of a fun discussion. 

If JD had a desire like Tiger or Greg Norman.. That would actually be amazing to watch. JD would have truly made the game look so easy and won several majors. The Grand Slam would have been accomplished if John Daly truly cared about it.  Seriously. He was that talented and that good.  He would probably been the one chasing Jack's records in the 1990's. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by ChrisL52188

[Ironman_32]

8 minutes ago, ChrisL52188 said:

If JD had a desire like Tiger or Greg Norman.. That would actually be amazing to watch. JD would have truly made the game look so easy and won several majors. The Grand Slam would have been accomplished if John Daly truly cared about it.  Seriously. He was that talented and that good.  He would probably been the one chasing Jack's records in the 1990's. 

i think that you have to remember, pro golf isn't sleep in your own bed, get to the course, play and go home. There's a lot more to it, so you have to weigh everything together. It's why theres guys we've never heard of who can fly it 350 in the air, but Zach Johnson has 2 majors. 

 

It's not like JD didn't have a bunch of chances, and a bunch of people who tried to get him organized, it just didn't work.  Its not who he is.  It's like football, we weigh how tall and fast someone is, yet we don't weigh how much desire someone has. That's why a guy like Josh Gordon can't stay in the league and Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi lying his way into training camp. 

 

Also, I feel like JD is like the opposite side of a coin compared to Tiger in a weird way. Both are over and under achievers. Imagine if Tiger never changed his swing, or if he didn't try to pack on muscle, could have won ~30 majors. 

[mocokid]

1 hour ago, ChrisL52188 said:

Did Ben Crenshaw overachieved? And I think Greg Norman underachieved BIG time. 

Crenshaw just barely achieved what was expected.  Expectations were very very high.  Winning the second masters sealed the deal, but it took a long time to reach that level.  

[iBanesto]

16 hours ago, mat562 said:

As others have said, this is a tough question to answer, as it's hard - for me, at least - not to succumb to unconscious bias in assessing the parameters that define a player's game and their achievements relative to it. My tendency is to think of overachievers as average or underwhelming ballstrikers who've nonetheless enjoyed solid careers and/or won big events. Conversely, an underachiever, when I think of one, is a flusher of the ball who didn't win as much as they should have done in my mind. There's more to golf than ballstriking alone, of course, but I struggle not to see someone like Pavin, who hits it shorter than I do but gets up and down from everywhere as succeeding 'despite' his game, and someone like Greg Norman, who when I watched him in his prime, won what I'd consider a fraction of what he 'should' have won based on what appeared to be natural talent and golfing ability.

 

That said, and rightly or wrongly, overachievers that spring to mind are, in no particular order:

 

Ian Poulter. An average ballstriker and a short hitter who has nonetheless enjoyed a very solid and successful career by making the most of what he has, through grit and determination, a cocksure attitude and belief in his own ability, and through his gift of being able to pull great golf out of a hat in the most pressurised of circumstances. In pro golf Poulter's perhaps the ulimate expression of small talent coupled with big confidence leading to greater-than-expected results.

 

Padraig Harrington. He's won more Majors than Greg Norman, Sandy Lyle, Bernhard Langer, Jose Maria Olazabal, Ian Woosnam and David Duval. Watch Harrington hit a ball and then say that again. You'll struggle to get your brain to believe it. Again, it's been done through determination, a cerebral and disciplined approach to practice and improving his game, and ultimately through playing solid if unspectacular golf. He's one of the most successful golfers of the last fifteen or twenty years, yet it's all beeen achieved without being a great ballstriker or what anyone would describe as a naturally gifted or natural-looking player. Nick Price cruised to three majors in a two year purple patch and you wondered how he didn't win more. Harrington did the same and, honestly, I wondered how he'd managed it at all.

 

Tom Kite. A money-making machine, and a consistent and solid performer over an extended period of time. Not a great swing, not a great ballstriker, not blessed physically, but the dedication to making himself as good as he could be, and focusing particularly upon his short game skills, meant that he enjoyed a solid career and made himself a Major champion largely by working harder than his peers and boxing clever. A lot like Bernhard Langer, when you watched Kite hit a ball, it didn't look and sound all that impressive next to some of the other players. Then you twigged that the balls were all thudding down in a pretty small area, time after time, watched him work on his short game for a while, and saw the scores he posted, and it all made sense.

 

Corey Pavin. He was a product of his time, in that despite his lack of length he was able to compete at the highest level. In today's game, sadly, we'd never have heard of Pavin. I loved watching him play, and the way that he was able to hit shots from such a seeming position of disadvantage that nonethess compared favourably with those of the longer hitters. He was a magician at shaping the ball, and his short game was stellar. Couple the whole lot with a gritty, bulldog spirit, and it added up to a wonderful player who was exciting to watch and who enjoyed a solid, Major-winning career. Honestly, though, when you're a keen 20 year-old off +1 or so, knowing that your ballstriking is several levels below that of the top players that you idolise, but you're out watching one of the world's best players up-close in a big tournament and his drives are 30 yards behind where yours would be, and he's dinking low, running woods into par fours where other pros are hitting towering mid-irons, you do, deep down, wonder how he's managing to blag it.

 

Mike Weir. Masters champion, and solid career, but not what anyone would describe as a hugely impressive player up-close. A small, quite weedy-looking guy who, a bit like Tom Kite, made his scores with the wedges and putter and through getting the most out of what he had by maximising his strengths and developing his long game and course management in a way that accommodated his short, often crooked driving, and consistently pretty average iron play.

 

 

 

 

 

Harrington owes it to his own hard work and Bob Torrance to get him to the top echelon of golf for many years.

 

For some time, in tournament rounds he had mix of box groove and v groove irons in his bag.

 

Check out his amateur swing! All arms.

 

 

[mocokid]

8 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

Harrington owes it to his own hard work and Bob Torrance to get him to the top echelon of golf for many years.

 

For some time, in tournament rounds he had mix of box groove and v groove irons in his bag.

 

Check out his amateur swing! All arms.

 

 

I like his swing!! Right elbow down at top of swing and good turn, hands exit left after impact! Good stuff

[Christen_The_Sloop]

On 2/28/2021 at 12:20 AM, BNGL said:

never would have thought to put Koepka in the category of over achiever. He was a good junior player, a stud in college, while he did take a different path by going to Europe he’s still a top talent player and has done nothing but consistently improve. There’s been some injury that’s held him back but he’s a stud amongst your pros 

 

It's tough to see anyone as an overachiever right now, however his major record is gd solid. He was this close to 3 US Opens in a row. His game fits just about anywhere. I think you will see him pick up at least a few more before his career is through, putting him right beside some all time greats. 

 

Like I said in the original post, everyone in NA is coming up through the system now and it's pretty cookie cutter. He`s risen above a lot of his peers, everyone except, McIlroy and Speith, in a short time and he looks poised to overtake those two before long. It's hard to fathom that BK is the greatest golfer of this generation, but he might well be. It's a pretty close race though and if someone goes on a tear they will be in the conversation. Could be Morikawa, Hovland, or McIlroy could step up (I don't see that happening though). 

 

 

[golfday]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:29 PM, TIScape said:

I hear “over achiever” and think achieving more success than expected. ie Pavin. ‘The Jockey’!

 

I'm with you on the definition, but I think that Nicklaus (and probably Tiger too) exceeded initial expectations by a long shot. In 1961 I don't think a lot of people would bet on Nicklaus to become the best player ever with 18 majors and 77 wins. In 1996 there were definitely some people thinking Tiger would be the best ever, but realistic expectations (not his or his dad's) would have probably been a fair amount lower than 15 and 82.

 

... now speaking strictly to after the summer of 2000, he may not have met expectations. At that point it seemed like anything was possible and that he could leave 15 in the dust.

[golfday]

Brooks being mentioned seems like a great pick. I don't recall him having a ton of hype, and now he's angling to be the best player of his age group.

 

Xander is another. He hasn't been closing the door lately, but here's a list of the top 25 American's under 25 in 2016, and Xander is only an honorable mention. 

https://thefriedegg.com/top-25-american-golfers-under-25/

 

Justin Leonard hasn't been mentioned much. He had hype but for a small, short hitter to have his career is pretty incredible.

 

Fred Funk is an interesting case. He somehow peaked in his mid-to late 40's. 

 

Stricker has some similarities to Funk. He hit is peak ranking at 42. He seemed like he was fading into the sunset in his late 30's after a non-notable career, then somehow turned into a future Ryder Cup captain.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

2 hours ago, golfday said:

Brooks being mentioned seems like a great pick. I don't recall him having a ton of hype, and now he's angling to be the best player of his age group.

 

Xander is another. He hasn't been closing the door lately, but here's a list of the top 25 American's under 25 in 2016, and Xander is only an honorable mention. 

https://thefriedegg.com/top-25-american-golfers-under-25/

 

Justin Leonard hasn't been mentioned much. He had hype but for a small, short hitter to have his career is pretty incredible.

 

Fred Funk is an interesting case. He somehow peaked in his mid-to late 40's. 

 

Stricker has some similarities to Funk. He hit is peak ranking at 42. He seemed like he was fading into the sunset in his late 30's after a non-notable career, then somehow turned into a future Ryder Cup captain.

 

The jury is still out on people like Shauffle. If he wins some big tournaments I might spend more time learning how to spell his name. 

 

Leonard had about as good of an amateur career as anyone not named Woods or Nicklaus. He`s kind of an exception to the short hitting over-achiever. In his case, with his pedigree, there`s an argument that he underachieved.

 

His case is interesting in that his career intersects with the rise of Tiger and the long ball. If his career had started ten years earlier, he probably has a few more majors. 10 years later he's probably a journeyman, Ishikawa Ryo comes to mind.

 

Stricker, as good as he is/was, I don`t see as a Ryder Cup captain. He`s right up there with Kenny Perry. They had pretty tremendous careers, but never could get the big individual win until the Senior Tour. Makes me think they had the game to win at the highest level.