LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[lowheel]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

How about pro tennis and bowling ? Guaranteed contracts ? 

Djokovic and Nadal make 40 million a year in endorsements, federer makes 90 million... without hitting a shot.. same on the womens side, serena makes 30 million osaka the same without hitting a shot.

Edited July 26, 2022 by lowheel

[oikos1]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Posted/rumored but never validated like many of the made up rumors in this thread - even if it was true, wonder why the PGA Tour would never want to deal with Greg Norman and his personal vendetta against the PGA Tour ? 

    

Really?  Hiring lobbyist's was a rumor?  (and I know, that's why I said the PGA Tour won't compromise any time soon)

 

Good grief, this story was posted by:

 

 

"Since last year, the PGA Tour has paid $360,000 to the firm DLA Piper to lobby lawmakers on their behalf for multiple topics, including “Saudi Golf League proposals.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/21/inside-the-pga-tours-lobbying-effort-against-saudi-funded-liv-golf.html

 

The denial and "this isn't happening" has reached a point of incredulity.

Edited July 26, 2022 by oikos1

[woodriff]

6 hours ago, jls667 said:

 

I just came on here to post this. Very interesting. They were just talking about it on PGA Tour Radio. Apparently for all our jaw jacking here, the 54 hole thing and other items won't be what holds them back from OWGR points (not necessarily because 54 holes is cool but because of the committee said they need 72, LIV would change by the next event) but rather the fact that they're a closed shop. So in order to get around it they're talking about using relegation to have that be the avenue to LIV and if you are relegated, you'll have to grind your way back on the Asian Tour.

 

On the radio we're talking about whether if you're Phil and are staring at $200mil in your bank account, and are relegated to the Asian Tour, do you even bother? Or just retire? If you don't want to bother, would you have to pay back some portion of your signing money? 

 

Also, how would this effect the big names moving over? Obviously lower tier players will grind it out but what about Pat Perez or anyone who got a big pay day? 

 

Likely this wouldn't apply to DJ, BDC, or BK since it'd be unlikely they play poorly enough to be relegated but not a far reach for Phil, Perez or Stenson.  

And even more interesting team captains may be relegated and not play, but they could coach. 
But here’s what jumped out, and I noticed it a couple of times “depending upon a players contract”. So as I read it, even though a player is relegated, depending upon his individual contract, he may not be relegated. I’ll have to read it again. More twists than Westworld. 

[lowheel]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Posted/rumored but never validated like many of the made up rumors in this thread - even if it was true, wonder why the PGA Tour would never want to deal with Greg Norman and his personal vendetta against the PGA Tour ? 

    

90% of the rumors in this thread have come to fruition and my gut says come winter about 99% will be reality as well. Players agents are leaking a lot of this to test the waters.

As I previously told you, last year there were high level talks and the PGA tour scoffed at participating after initially agreeing. its been widely reported

[Short Pete]

5 hours ago, bighitlama said:

I don't think it's a coincident that the new format to allow new players to earn their way in, to qualify for LIV, came so soon after Norman applied for OWGR inclusion.   I think it shows Norman is willing to work with others unlike the PGAT is willing to even talk with LIV.   LIV is going to allow all of these players an automatic invitation into their qualifying event-

 

 

• Nos. 2-32 on the money list from the International Series, which is part of the Asian Tour
• Major winners from the last 5 years.
• Reigning amateur champions (U.S. Amateur, British Amateur, Latin-American Amateur, Asia-Pacific Amateur, NCAA champion)
• Top 75 in the Official World Golf Ranking
• PGA Tour and DP World Tour winners from the previous year
• Any relegated player from LIV Golf in the last two years
• Members of the last Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup teams

This will prove LIV is open to the greatest players in the game.   If OWGR doesn't see this, I think the Courts will.

So they say they have closed shop for 2023 and they will stick with the existing format and roaster, right? And for 2024 they are going to host a qualification event that gives out 4 (!) spots for the 2024 season. It's done like this:

 

 

 

That's still closed shop. Do they honestly think that Patrick Cantlay, assuming he turned down an offer from Shark, registers for this tournament to get into the 2024 LIV roaster, when a lesser ranked player like Pat Perez got 10 million upfront? What if Scheffler, Schauffele, Burns, Cantlay and Finau wait till the end of the season, say Yes to Greg but want to captain one of the teams that are set for the 2023 campaign? Does Greg tell Brooks Koepka that he is not a captain anymore, and since he finished 26th on the points list and nobody chose him for a team he has to enter the qualifying tournament? What if Pat Perez finishes 27th on points in the 2023 season, does not lead a team, is not chosen for a team (unlikely but possible) and finishes 9th in the qualifying event? Is he allowed to keep his 10 million bucks? What if the LIV players are such a tight knit unit that all the players are kept by their team captains. No spots available? What if Jediah Morgan finishes dead last in all 14 events in 2023 (prize money: 1.75 million dollars!), takes a million and buys himself into a team for the next season? It's more and more apparent that Plan A was to do damage by buying as much talent off the PGA Tour and the DP Tour as possible. There was no real other concept except the Teams idea. The whole thing is based on arbitrariness and huge amounts of money. What's next for LIV? 72 hole tournaments? No shotgun start? This whole circus has good chances to disintegrate from the inside.

 

And Bryson? He sounds like he's brainwashed. Crazy what money can do.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Short Pete

[iBanesto]

It appears the field list for the 2022 PIF Saudi International powered by SoftBank Investment Advisers is a good indicator of who may go to LIV Golf.

 

http://www.owgr.com/en/Events/EventResult.aspx?eventid=9402

[Davethegolfer]

It's being reported here in Australia that the deal with Hideki is done and will be announced after Fed Ex cup final. Such is the Asian market the figure being quoted is $400mil

[Ghost of Snead]

8 hours ago, lowheel said:

Djokovic and Nadal make 40 million a year in endorsements, federer makes 90 million... without hitting a shot.. same on the womens side, serena makes 30 million osaka the same without hitting a shot.

 

None of them have guaranteed contracts with the ATP Tour/WTA. Tiger/Phil/DJ/Brooks also make bank with endorsements or at least did before defecting.

    

Edited July 26, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[Ghost of Snead]

7 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Really?  Hiring lobbyist's was a rumor?  (and I know, that's why I said the PGA Tour won't compromise any time soon)

 

Good grief, this story was posted by:

 

 

"Since last year, the PGA Tour has paid $360,000 to the firm DLA Piper to lobby lawmakers on their behalf for multiple topics, including “Saudi Golf League proposals.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/21/inside-the-pga-tours-lobbying-effort-against-saudi-funded-liv-golf.html

 

The denial and "this isn't happening" has reached a point of incredulity.

 

The Tour is lobbying against LIV, not to set up meetings to work out a deal. Monahan could've just picked up the phone and called Norman or returned his calls. Until I see evidence that happened, it didn't happen. "Course correction" to the PGA Tour means shutting LIV down totally. In fact, have any of the heads of the world golf associations sat down with Norman in face-to-face talks ? 

 

"Lobbying efforts last year prompted Biden advisors to propose a sit-down meeting between a PGA Tour representative and Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the U.S., Reema bint Bandar Al Saud, to discuss the Saudi-financed golf league, according to one of the people with knowledge of the effort.

 

The PGA Tour declined to have the meeting because tour officials didn’t believe it would result in much of a course correction by the Saudis, this person said. This person declined to be named in order to speak freely about private conversations."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aus10KC]

7 hours ago, lowheel said:

Djokovic and Nadal make 40 million a year in endorsements, federer makes 90 million... without hitting a shot.. same on the womens side, serena makes 30 million osaka the same without hitting a shot.

 

Endorsements and contacts to play are different things. PGAT players have gotten endorsements for years and both Phil and Tiger have made tens of millions per year just like the tennis players in endorsements.

[bscinstnct]

LIV fans taunting BD with Brooksy.

 

 

 

[Shortgamemagic]

8 hours ago, lowheel said:

90% of the rumors in this thread have come to fruition and my gut says come winter about 99% will be reality as well. Players agents are leaking a lot of this to test the waters.

As I previously told you, last year there were high level talks and the PGA tour scoffed at participating after initially agreeing. its been widely reported

We must calculate math differently. 

[Shortgamemagic]

10 hours ago, BombinJim said:

Sergio going back to the DP tour because he still wants to be apart of the Ryder Cup? Just saw ESPNU bottom ticker.

He has the mentality of a teenager

[bladehunter]

13 hours ago, terry55 said:

The players have all the power to decide. If most of the best players are on LIV, the Ryder Cup or the Presidents Cup becomes meaningless.  If most of the best players are not in the Majors, they stop becoming Majors. Something else will replace them.

 

The people that run the Major golf events must realize they are not awarded that status for any reason but perception. At one time the title "Heavyweight Boxing Champion" meant something. A heavyweight fight was a worldwide viewing event. It doesn't mean much now. MMA filled the void.  

 

The same will happen in golf unless a Major Event is truly a Major Event, not one in title only.  World Golf Ranking Points have nothing to do with the prestige of the Majors. Nothing.  Excluding players because LIV doesn't get ranking points doesn't change the facts.  If the best golf is on LIV, then LIV owns professional golf.  Sponsors will come and abandon the PGA Tour. Watch as Adidas or some other company sponsor a LIV golf team.  If LIV has a great Japanese team, a Japanese TV contract will follow. If LIV has a great Australian team, an Australian TV contract will follow.  If LIV captures a different audience demographic than the PGA Tour then everything changes. Same as MMA did to boxing. The tipping point is coming. You won't watch it anymore? It won't matter. Others will be watching.

 

If LIV invests in Women Golf, the LPGA will jump on it immediately. Faster than you can blink. Well who watches Women Golf you might say. Koreans do.  There is plenty of room to grow Women Golf around the world. The LPGA will sign up quickly or be replaced. They know that. I wouldn't be surprised if conversations are happening.

 

The PGA Tour and the DP World Tour are standing on the shore and yelling at the tsunami to not come ashore.  It isn't going to work. Neither will all the other excuses why LIV will fail offered up in this forum work.  It is up to the players of golf to decide and when they do, that is where golf goes. This is just my guess but I bet 80% of PGA Tour golfers are hoping to get the LIV call.

Well. If that’s true then Greg wins.  Professional golf dies , and we all lose. 
 

the only thing you didn’t cover there is the viewer.  Will the viewer swap over to a shotgun event with no cut ? I don’t believe so.  Not any more than is watching it now.  
 

wont it be a shame to see all the womens golf work from the last 10 years be throw away.  Because if the lpga is absorbed by LIV , in 5 years or so when the Saudis get tired of this toy , the men can go back to a new tour somewhere.  But the ladies will have to start from scratch. That’s a huge hill to climb.  But I guess they all will  be set to retire.  So nobody’s thinking of the ladies coming later. 
 

we all know that this business model isn’t sustainable minus the Saudi slush fund.  And they’ll pull that at some point.  We surely can agree there. This isn’t a lifelong thing.  So why drive off that cliff ? 

Edited July 26, 2022 by bladehunter

[MaineMariner]

9 hours ago, lowheel said:

Djokovic and Nadal make 40 million a year in endorsements, federer makes 90 million... without hitting a shot.. same on the womens side, serena makes 30 million osaka the same without hitting a shot.

 

This is literally exactly how professional golf works. The massively popular and successful talent makes a ton of money in endorsements, and less money in winnings. The less popular and successful talent makes a whole lot less money in endorsements. Phil's lifetime earnings through the Tour are dwarfed by his endorsement earnings.

[Hardluckster]

46 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Well. If that’s true then Greg wins.  Professional golf dies , and we all lose. 
 

the only thing you didn’t cover there is the viewer.  Will the viewer swap over to a shotgun event with no cut ? I don’t believe so.  Not any more than is watching it now.  

I would venture to bet that if LIV were to attract most of the world’s best golfers to their tour, viewers would watch in huge numbers. I think that most golf viewers want to see the best in the world competing against each other, regardless of the stage. There will always be those that would refuse to watch, but I would guess that percentage would be small. 
 

46 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

wont it be a shame to see all the womens golf work from the last 10 years be throw away.  Because if the lpga is absorbed by LIV , in 5 years or so when the Saudis get tired of this toy , the men can go back to a new tour somewhere.  But the ladies will have to start from scratch. That’s a huge hill to climb.  But I guess they all will  be set to retire.  So nobody’s thinking of the ladies coming later. 

 

we all know that this business model isn’t sustainable minus the Saudi slush fund.  And they’ll pull that at some point.  We surely can agree there. This isn’t a lifelong thing.  So why drive off that cliff ? 

I’ll reserve judgment on what’s going to happen 5 years down the road. We don’t even have any real sense of what will happen after the current season, imo. 
 

You could be right. The whole thing could crumble into oblivion. It could also grow and become something that other entities would be encouraged to absorb into their portfolio. 
 

I think that LIV only throws huge sums of money at PGA players until they become one of the places to play in professional golf. If that never happens, then I think that you are correct and the model is unsustainable.
 

If, however, enough of the top golfers are attracted to LIV to make it a viable professional tour, then I don’t think that huge sums to entice players will be required. At that point it could possibly become sustainable. 

[bscinstnct]

These are 10 guys the pga tour needs to keep.

 

Offer them appearance fees that equal 10-15MM each a year to play in 10 or so events with sufficient overlap so there’s always 50-75% of them in the field and all of them for some of them. 
 

Plus purse money. Fedex, new funny money events. 
 

So, JT makes 15MM a year guaranteed. Another 10-20 on the course, maybe more. Plus endorsements 
 

Do that and none of the key guys are going to leave. And ratings for all these events will be strong and offset the cost. 
 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by bscinstnct

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

LIV fans taunting BD with Brooksy.

 

 

 

 

See, I find that really poor form. There is no excuse for it in this day and age. Absolutely none. I'm seeing more and more of it on the Internet, and it needs to stop NOW!

 

I mean, why the hell is he filming in portrait mode when the shot clearly calls for landscape?

[OrangeGravy]

21 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Hideki! Of course, now Cam gonna want $400MM.

 

Unlimited cash 💰 yo! 🤣

 

 

 

If they do this right, they don't need 1 eyeball in North America to make a bunch of money. If the Hideki/Srixon/Japanese team thing kicks off, that angle is heading in the right direction 

[idrive]

Get your tickets yet?  Can barely give tickets away and people are buying these?

 

I am having a hard time believing anyone would spend that kind of money...  I don't care how much you have, IMO that's just stupid.

IF I were to go, which I'm not.  Ever. I'd take a $4 ticket and bring my own booze. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/tickets-for-trump-s-liv-golf-tournament-are-going-for-as-much-as-4-250/ar-AAZXb52?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=24cab5e9931847fcb0acb9dd45547853

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by idrive

[Ezgolfer]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Well. If that’s true then Greg wins.  Professional golf dies , and we all lose. 
 

the only thing you didn’t cover there is the viewer.  Will the viewer swap over to a shotgun event with no cut ? I don’t believe so.  Not any more than is watching it now.  
 

wont it be a shame to see all the womens golf work from the last 10 years be throw away.  Because if the lpga is absorbed by LIV , in 5 years or so when the Saudis get tired of this toy , the men can go back to a new tour somewhere.  But the ladies will have to start from scratch. That’s a huge hill to climb.  But I guess they all will  be set to retire.  So nobody’s thinking of the ladies coming later. 
 

we all know that this business model isn’t sustainable minus the Saudi slush fund.  And they’ll pull that at some point.  We surely can agree there. This isn’t a lifelong thing.  So why drive off that cliff ? 

I guess we will have to wait for MBS to get interested in roller derby or a lacrosse league/tour ..

[CCTxGolf]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

 So why drive off that cliff ? 

Money.

[PorkChopExpress]

Other than the top players caddies, all the caddies are waiting for the call

 

LIV is taking the ecosystem (the big part of the bell curve) that the PGA ignored and simply can’t afford to pay for and making it the priority. 
 

Always requires the initial jumpers, then couple followers, but once that bell curve hits, it’s a tidal wave 

 

 

[PorkChopExpress]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Well. If that’s true then Greg wins.  Professional golf dies , and we all lose. 
 

the only thing you didn’t cover there is the viewer.  Will the viewer swap over to a shotgun event with no cut ? I don’t believe so.  Not any more than is watching it now.  
 

wont it be a shame to see all the womens golf work from the last 10 years be throw away.  Because if the lpga is absorbed by LIV , in 5 years or so when the Saudis get tired of this toy , the men can go back to a new tour somewhere.  But the ladies will have to start from scratch. That’s a huge hill to climb.  But I guess they all will  be set to retire.  So nobody’s thinking of the ladies coming later. 
 

we all know that this business model isn’t sustainable minus the Saudi slush fund.  And they’ll pull that at some point.  We surely can agree there. This isn’t a lifelong thing.  So why drive off that cliff ? 

LPGA threw away their business model when they required the Korean Ladies to speak English to stop the influx.

 

[jls667]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Well. If that’s true then Greg wins.  Professional golf dies , and we all lose. 

 

That's what I've struggled to process the most through all of this. We are all here on WRX in large part due to the PGAT whether you admit it or not. No matter how you grew to love this game, our love of the game is either directly or indirectly linked to the PGAT. 

 

Think of the times you were glued to the majors, Players, Ryder Cup, you name it. That's all at risk of being lost because we feel millionaires are deserving of more millions? Lets say all the top guys go to LIV, think of all that would be lost that had a hand in bringing you here in the first place. In all likelihood you're here, debating on WRX, because you're a certifiable golf nut. That passion for the game is in large part connected to the PGAT, yet so many are okay with an entity that wants it dismantled? I don't get it. 

 

Majors and Ryder Cup might not exist so we can watch Four Aces vs Hi-Flyers in a shotgun format? People are actually okay with that? You're willing to lose the drama that occurred on Sunday during this past Open because some guys, you don't know and who don't give a flying-bleep about you, want to take their current multi-millions and multiply it into the stratosphere? I know I'm not. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by jls667

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Well. If that’s true then Greg wins.  Professional golf dies , and we all lose. 
 

the only thing you didn’t cover there is the viewer.  Will the viewer swap over to a shotgun event with no cut ? I don’t believe so.  Not any more than is watching it now.  
 

wont it be a shame to see all the womens golf work from the last 10 years be throw away.  Because if the lpga is absorbed by LIV , in 5 years or so when the Saudis get tired of this toy , the men can go back to a new tour somewhere.  But the ladies will have to start from scratch. That’s a huge hill to climb.  But I guess they all will  be set to retire.  So nobody’s thinking of the ladies coming later. 
 

we all know that this business model isn’t sustainable minus the Saudi slush fund.  And they’ll pull that at some point.  We surely can agree there. This isn’t a lifelong thing.  So why drive off that cliff ? 

Some people just like to see things burn........LOL!

[idrive]

21 minutes ago, jls667 said:

 

That's what I've struggled to process the most through all of this. We are all here on WRX in large part due to the PGAT whether you admit it or not. No matter how you grew to love this game, our love of the game is either directly or indirectly linked to the PGAT. 

 

Think of the times you were glued to the major, Players, Ryder Cup, you name it. That's all at risk of being lost because we feel millionaires are deserving of more millions? Lets say all the top guys go to LIV, think of all that would be lost that had a hand in bringing you here in the first place. In all likelihood you're here, debating on WRX, because you're a certifiable golf nut. That passion for the game is in large part connected to the PGAT, yet so many are okay with an entity that wants it dismantled? I don't get it. 

 

Majors and Ryder Cup might not exist so we can watch Four Aces vs Hi-Flyers in a shotgun format? People are actually okay with that? You're willing to lose the drama that occurred on Sunday during this past Open because some guys, you don't know and who don't give a flying-bleep about you, want to take their current multi-millions and multiply it into the stratosphere? I know I'm not. 

 

Thank you. Only other thing I can ask is to please make room for me in your boat.

 

Tips hat.

[OrangeGravy]

13 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

How about pro tennis and bowling ? Guaranteed contracts ? 

Nobody cares about those sports. 

Tennis already has a team series that sits alongside the tour events. I'd wager the compensation is predetermined to get players on a team aside from event prize money

[bscinstnct]

52 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

If they do this right, they don't need 1 eyeball in North America to make a bunch of money. If the Hideki/Srixon/Japanese team thing kicks off, that angle is heading in the right direction 

 

Well that’s good. Because global interest is falling of a cliff with each event

 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&q=Liv golf

[jls667]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

LIV fans taunting BD with Brooksy.

 

 

 

 

When I go to a formal event, I conduct myself accordingly. When I go to a wild house party, I will conduct myself like I'm at a wild house party. 

 

If LIV wants to have concerts, ads of guys spraying booze on each other, and promote "Golf but louder," don't act surprised when the crowd gets rowdier. If the players don't like it, then don't play in a LIV event.