Hogan Closed Again

[kevinmdowney]

12 hours ago, Edwijn said:

Now is it?

 

hear me out, looking at the earnings of major OEM, lots of the earnings come trough balls, clothes, shoes and other source of income. If I remember last time I had stock just before the pandemic in acushnet and callaway, the sales of clubs accounted for roughly 20%. Also the retailers don’t have big margins on clubs, so in the end, is it really a surprise?

Clubs are not a profit center - balls, apparel, etc are.

[NevinW]

Sounds like it was the bankruptcy of their primary stockholder due to other factors like Covid, that has led to their demise.  Sales were apparently going well.  

[Gnomesteel]

1 hour ago, NevinW said:

Sounds like it was the bankruptcy of their primary stockholder due to other factors like Covid, that has led to their demise.  Sales were apparently going well.  

 

But not well enough to sustain the business without outside investment. This was doomed from the moment Kohler wrote the business plan. The only thing they had going for them was the Hogan name, but that wasn't even theirs. 

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, Dinosaur said:

Not long ago, I sold a fairly new set of the ICON blacks as well as a UiHi 3 iron on ebay. I had mentioned here at the time, but no interest shown.  The irons were excellent but I opted for an older set of Titleist MB's for eccentric reasons that probably would not make sense to anyone else. 

It makes perfect sense to me along with your screen name. Yep more than likely I would do the same thing

[jjfcpa]

20 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

 

Uhh, why are we hanging the whole thing on Koehler? He served as the CEO of the revived Ben Hogan line for about 18 months, and then moved on in August 2016. Industry veteran Scott White took over. He had 13 years with Callaway and two with TaylorMade in prior work. 

 

Less than a year after White's arrival came the Hogan 2017 Bankruptcy. But, Hogan rebounded.

 

During the pandemic, the BH direct-to-customer model seemed to be working. White on Hogan Sales in 2020.

 

But, something has happened for most recent closure. Supply chain issues? Key manufacturing employees left?

 

OK, I admit I read Terry Koehler's Wedge Guy column. I'm not sure I'd go to him for short-game lesson, but he does have excellent ideas on wedge design. His Edisons help the average golfer who can't handle a sweet spot the size of a quarter.

 

But, TK has been absent from Hogan for six years...

 

 

My only reference was that the BH wedges were a TK design, which I read online.  Hence, I'm sure that his design philosophy carried over to the Edisons.  I did not attribute BH closing to TK.  Not sure what your rant was all about but it seems misguided.

[ChipNRun]

2 minutes ago, jjfcpa said:

 I did not attribute BH closing to TK.  Not sure what your rant was all about but it seems misguided.

 

It wasn't a rant. I built a logical case to take the heat off Koehler. FYI, others following you made derogatory remarks about Koehler.

 

And, several WRXers have negative attitudes toward TK. Just offering a counter-balance.

[jjfcpa]

5 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

It wasn't a rant. I built a logical case to take the heat off Koehler. FYI, others following you made derogatory remarks about Koehler.

 

And, several WRXers have negative attitudes toward TK. Just offering a counter-balance.

 

Point taken.  

 

I sort of skip over the posts that are off topic, if you know what I mean.

 

For what it's worth, I think the BH wedges are excellent.  Not sure if it's the size of the sweet spot or the v-sole, but they work for me.  So much so that I'm sure I will be getting a set of the Edisons before too long.

[Dinosaur]

22 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

It makes perfect sense to me along with your screen name. Yep more than likely I would do the same thing

 

[Dinosaur]

5 minutes ago, Dinosaur said:

 

yep, every once in awhile. not to mention, I turn 80 tomorrow. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Dinosaur

[grm24]

5 hours ago, boggyman said:

Thought Alker  played New Level? 

He does. I posted that earlier in this thread.

 

 

[ChipNRun]

23 minutes ago, jjfcpa said:

For what it's worth, I think the BH wedges are excellent.  Not sure if it's the size of the sweet spot or the v-sole, but they work for me.  So much so that I'm sure I will be getting a set of the Edisons before too long.

 

I would suggest the Edisons might have most value in SW and LW. That's where a lot of golfers have fall-off in full swing wedges.

 

Let us know how the Edisons work out. I went to the Mav MAX irons w/graphites last summer. My MDs still had good grooves, so I got them reshafted with Catalyst 85 6.0 tapers I found online. Thus, I haven't tested other wedges much lately.

 

As for TE, they were hard to categorize for access. Had cutting edge clubs, especially since Exotics fairways circa 2005. Sold lots of clubs online, but also had scattering of shops mostly in Midwest that fit for TEs.

 

Last few production cycles TE has really expanded number of stock shafts offered. Also, more Champions Tour players bagging Exotics clubs in recent years.

 

TE founder David Glod worked with the Web.com tour for a decade, rising to VP level. Here's a recent Interview with Glod on the revised Tour Edge goals.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by ChipNRun

[jjfcpa]

4 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

I would suggest the Edisons might have most value in SW and LW. That's where a lot of golfers have fall-off in full swing wedges.

 

Let us know how the Edisons work out. I went to the Mav MAX irons w/graphites last summer. My MDs still had good grooves, so I got them reshafted with Catalyst 85 6.0 tapers I found online. Thus, I haven't tested other wedges much lately.

 

I have tested a 59* Edison wedge that a friend of mine has and it feels very good.  Very easy to hit it where you want.  The only downside I felt was it didn't go through rough quite as easily as I thought it would but that could just be my lack of practice with it, the shaft, or the loft.  I never play a 59* wedge.  Highest I go is 56*.  But in comparing it to my BH it was remarkably easy to land the ball within the gimme distance when within 15 yards of the green.  

 

I would switch right now except I've spent a lot of time practicing with the BH and I have them zeroed in perfectly.  I'm sure if I spend a few hours with the Edisons, they would be just as effective.

 

I've got some Jaws MD5's that I'm going to trade as soon as I need something from Callaway or one of the others that takes trade-ins.  

[boggyman]

18 minutes ago, grm24 said:

He does. I posted that earlier in this thread.

 

 

Yes, I read the thread again and saw that. As mentioned, it kinda got sideways there for a few! All good! 

[SwingBlues]

Wow...sad to hear. I still have my 2 Equalizer Series 1 wedges, they're still a beaut. Sad for the staff as well.

[awtryau89]

I just want to know if they are going to liquidate the inventory they have currently. I’d love a deal on some PTx Pro black heads. I demoed those irons and loved them but never pulled the trigger because of shaft options. Going to be on the lookout for someone purchasing their inventory and selling it cheap like Maple Hill or Deals and Steals. 

[moonshine]

For a second, not being in the know, I thought some were suggesting the blame go on a faucet company!🤣

 

Seriously, a great brand and brand I had for my first set of "real" clubs.  Sad to see for sure.

[OsnolaKinnard]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:11 PM, ChipNRun said:

We'll see if Hogan is really gone.

 

Tommy Armour went to sleep for several years, but in now back as a supporting character.

 

MacGregor went away twice, but is not back yet. 😪

Macgregor is available in the UK.

[Jmccas]

Sad to hear they’ve closed. I had a set of PTX Pros I bought used and they were quality irons. The set included Equalizer wedges that were great. I had been debating about buying the Equalizer 2 wedges recently. Guessed I missed my window. 

[cardia10]

A lot of old US golf companies started their slow death when Hoffman Forging stopped their US production. When you rely on overseas production you  rely on the logistics and supply chain not being controlled in your own country. These niche brands barely hang on and the newer ones will only hang on as long as they can procure cheap forgings from open designs overseas. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by cardia10

[m3bimmer2000]

Such a shame. Ive been playing their Ft worth 15 and PTx irons for several years now, I tried replacing them several times with TM, Titleist, etc, but always ended up going back the Hogans because they were just that good.

[Sankacoffee]

I've debated trying them over the years, so hopefully they'll get it sorted. I played the Apex Plus in high school and I've been searching ever since for irons I like as much as I liked those.

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Macgregor is available in the UK.

Who has the rights over there to Macgregor? First I have heard of it. Wonder if it is quality stuff or junk like Golfsmith had? And BTW how are you doing these days?

[Soloman1]

I don't want to kick them when they're down or pat myself on the back, but I remember vividly the first iteration of being reborn at the PGA Show. I spent some time asking questions and walked away thinking that this would happen (as it did twice). Excellent product, solid brand name to work, but the marketing just didn't make sense to me.

 

In the 21st century, a business with a great product and mediocre marketing can possibly survive.

A company with a lousy product and great marketing will thrive.

 

The company may be gone, but my bag will welcome the Icon irons I bought for a long time.

[Pepperturbo]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:16 PM, BIG STU said:

And dont get me started about Macgregor and Golfsmith. As bad as I hate to say this I would rather see the Hogan name die than be desecrated like Golfsmith did Macgregor. Makes my stomach turn everytime I see or hear of a Callaway product called Apex. But then again DSG did do a decent job with the Tommy Armour line. Walter Hagen I am mixed on not quite the quality when it was a Wilson product but then again Wilson went downhill until recently. 

Agree.

 

Snake Eye was eventually bought by Golfsmith and destroyed.  I have some of the original Snake Eye clubs.  MacGregor - another famous name in tour quality, died a quiet death.  I have a full set of MacGregor custom clubs when custom meant something. 

 

IMO it is a bad financial decision to try and reincarnate a once famed club company, like the aforementioned companies.  Current youth doesn't have the connection that some of us older guys have with those old companies.  They failed due to poor P&L and inability to be competitive on the evolving retail stage.  Best to let them stay dead, unless someone has a need for a place to dump large sums of money to cover red ink.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[kiwirst]

This still saddens me, my Players Combo are amazing, I've shot my two best rounds ever with these.

 

I'd love to pick up the heads to build out full PTx Pro & Icon sets but I bet any inventory will be offloaded to large corps, not regular buyers.

[morgan1819]

21 hours ago, Dinosaur said:

yep, every once in awhile. not to mention, I turn 80 tomorrow. 

 

 

 

Happy Birthday.

 

80 is the new 60.

[OsnolaKinnard]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Who has the rights over there to Macgregor? First I have heard of it. Wonder if it is quality stuff or junk like Golfsmith had? And BTW how are you doing these days?

I follow them on instagram…does not look like components.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CgfBjm8o2Vb/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cf9jdLOIae-/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

 

kidney transplant was 100% successful…i made a few swings today with no pain.

 

Hoping to play Sunday!!!

Edited July 27, 2022 by OsnolaKinnard

[Dinosaur]

36 minutes ago, morgan1819 said:

 

Happy Birthday.

 

80 is the new 60.

 yah, thas what SHE said (almost)... Thanks

 

[AC in TX]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:31 PM, kevinmdowney said:

Clubs are not a profit center - balls, apparel, etc are.

Spot on - when I was at Golfsmith corporate all they talked about is the lack of gross margin on clubs (mostly due to the manufacturer pricing restrictions) and the great gross margin or apparel ...  

[AC in TX]

Another couple of points -

 

• Us older folks know of and may have even seen Hogan in competition or exhibitions, and likely read his classic Five Lessons book. Kind of like having seen Wilt Chamberlain or Bobby Orr, Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle. Today's golfers have no frame of reference on Ben Hogan other than "wasn't he famous once upon a time?".

 

• The golf club equipment market remains predominantly a Game Improvement/Super Game Improvement focused market - forgiveness being the operative phrase. Ping sells a bunch of G's, Titleist sells a bunch of T300's and lately T200s, Callaway and Taylormade are also heavily in that market which extends beyond irons to forgiving drivers and lately woods and hybrids instead or long irons. I rarely heard of Hogan's products in that conversation expect in this forum which, let's face it, is heavily slanted to the "more accomplished golfer".

Edited July 27, 2022 by AC in TX