LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[stinger_gc]

3 minutes ago, mstuewe said:

why did they give up majors?  The us open is supposed to be “open.”  The open is “open.”  The masters has criteria which brooks, DJ, bubba, rahm, and others meet.  The pga has the toughest criteria, since it’s mostly dependent on past winners and world ranking points, but it still has criteria set.  
 

under what grounds should they be denied access to these major events which are not run by the TOUR?

Rahm has a 4 year exemption into the 2 majors he hasn’t won. If these 2 tours are eventually agreeing to cooperate, this is a no-brainer

[jordan2240]

I was wondering how John was going to get his next meal.  I feel much better for him now.

[dashanks]

17 hours ago, maowv said:

I just don't care anymore. Can't care anymore.

 

Personally, I will never watch LIV golf, not a minute of it, no matter who departs for that show.

 

As for Rahm, or Cantlay, or Xander, or whomever else talks about "it's not about the money" in public and then acts differently behind closed doors - do what you want to do and own your badge of hypocrisy. Don't talk about it publicly, or don't scold the media when they report in advance what you actually end up doing later. Take the money, just shut up about it and own your decision. I'm not saying I even blame them as nobody ever offered me $600 million to quit one job for another, or whatever absurd numbers these numbers actually are.

 

I've watched less golf, and played more golf, in the past 12 months than in the past 3-4 golf seasons combined. Didn't watch 3 of the Majors this year for the first time in 30 years. Didn't watch the Ryder Cup for the first time in 30 years. Have never watched LIV. And discovered that my golf game has improved the more I play and the less I watch.

 

Hard to be concerned over millionnaires complaining about how bad they have it and how they need better working conditions and pay. They have no idea how the rest of the world lives.

Excellent post that echoes my sentiments exactly.   I'll always be a NeverLIVer for reasons I'm sure I can't discuss here.   And I lost all respect for the PGA tour when Monahan caved.  Like Doris Day said, "Que sera, sera."  Hope the part about my golf game improving comes true.

[aus10KC]

I still don't understand these trades. Rangegoats traded away 4 wins from last year. 

 

4aces resigned Pat Perez. Why?!?

 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, Jay28 said:

TBH I don't know why Tiger didn't take a deal... more money , less hectic schedule. 

 

 

You honestly think Tiger needs the $ ?  As for schedule, he calls his own shots.

[leezer99]

Round 1 of the promotions event has concluded and Kerry Mountcastle has come out on top with a blistering 8 under round. (His previous 3 events were all MC on the DPWT and PGAT of Australasia)

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by leezer99

[Naptime]

TV golf used to feel special BITD.  Most of us who were old enough remember watching Jack's last Masters win or Tiger's early years.  Move your schedule to watch something special.  Like watching the 1969 moon landing (admittedly on a smaller stage).  Since Tiger's recent injuries, I barely pay attention to pro golf.  And if my wife wants to take me along to home holiday craft fair I don't stay home glued to TV golf anymore.  The last golf event I actually paid any attention to was Rose Zhang's win in her first LPGA event as a pro.  Caught a bit of the Hero but when it was clear TW was well out of contention I think I ended up running errands.

 

My own game has improved by about 10 strokes over the same time period.  Still not great by any means but routinely expect to shoot mid 90s now.

[jd3032]

24 minutes ago, mstuewe said:

 The us open is supposed to be “open.”  The open is “open.”  The masters has criteria which brooks, DJ, bubba, rahm, and others meet.  The pga has the toughest criteria, since it’s mostly dependent on past winners and world ranking points, but it still has criteria set.  

 

all outdated and does not accommodate the current environment

but of course the argument used time and again to nauseum trying desperately to justify the position

 

to me, they lost their standing, any and all standing when choosing to leave,

whatever status you had is in the past, you are a has been, a was, a used to be,

 

kind of like being a project manager at Target, you leave for Walmart.

now you want to keep your 'status' earned at Target after your move.

You want to go to xmas parties, participate in profit sharing, retain your corporate access card, etc.

 

The whole argument is ludicrous.

 

if they want to get in a open, then qualify your way in, and be treated like any other tour, asian, euro or other. The liv tour only has status such as a asian tour, or australian tour. You qualify accordingly.

 

do you have dp tour status..........no

do you have pga tour status........no

do you have x status.......no

whatever status you think you have earned from the pga you are no longer 'entitled' to, you resigned.

 

and you don't qualify, isn't hard.

the argument is a non sequitor even though it is frequently used to 'justify' the nonsense

 

but again, as stated, I am clearly in the minority on this so don't mind me

 

 

[mshills]

The definition of an Open tournament is not hard to understand.

 

Neither are Masters invitations.

 

The only major in question is the PGA.

[EagleAteBirdie]

3 hours ago, Jay28 said:

I am now of the view that a big second tour is a good thing.

I hope with any merger they do keep the tours separate.

 

Used to be the European Tour was muchh better and it was fun seeing the players go over to battle in the 3 other majors.

 

All the best European players left for the money on the PGA Tour, so see no difference in players leaving the PGA Tour for money.

 

The fools in all of this are people like Mcllroy.   He's so entrenched himself and been so outspoken he's going to look a bit dumb when he's begging to join LIV and they don't want him or give him much less money.

 

Congrats to John Rahm.

That's quite the windfall.

 

TBH I don't know why Tiger didn't take a deal... more money , less hectic schedule. 

 

 

 

 

It would undoubtedly make Tiger's life worse.

 

Another billion dollars would make very little difference to his quality of life.  Plus, he already has the freedom to play wherever and whenever he chooses.

 

Signing with LIV would mean more commitment, travel and stress. It would also tarnish his hard-earned legacy on the PGA tour.  And for what?  More money that he doesn't need.

 

He made the right decision.

 

 

[PostandGhost]

19 minutes ago, jd3032 said:

 

all outdated and does not accommodate the current environment

but of course the argument used time and again to nauseum trying desperately to justify the position

 

to me, they lost their standing, any and all standing when choosing to leave,

whatever status you had is in the past, you are a has been, a was, a used to be,

 

kind of like being a project manager at Target, you leave for Walmart.

now you want to keep your 'status' earned at Target after your move.

You want to go to xmas parties, participate in profit sharing, retain your corporate access card, etc.

 

The whole argument is ludicrous.

 

if they want to get in a open, then qualify your way in, and be treated like any other tour, asian, euro or other. The liv tour only has status such as a asian tour, or australian tour. You qualify accordingly.

 

do you have dp tour status..........no

do you have pga tour status........no

do you have x status.......no

whatever status you think you have earned from the pga you are no longer 'entitled' to, you resigned.

 

and you don't qualify, isn't hard.

the argument is a non sequitor even though it is frequently used to 'justify' the nonsense

 

but again, as stated, I am clearly in the minority on this so don't mind me

 

 

It sounds like you're saying if an employee earns a 401k at their previous job, then the employee shouldn't rollover the 401k if they switch employers?

Edited December 8, 2023 by PostandGhost

[Fairways_and_Greens]

7 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

It’s been watchable.  It’s just another avenue to watch some of the world’s best golfers.  

It’s watchable in the YouTube 30 minute recap. Even that it’s impossible not to skip through. 

[aus10KC]

Last LIV event I watched this past summer, for about 30 min. It had plenty of commercials and fluff pieces about teams. 

 

Those saying LIV doesn't have a large commercial load haven't watched this past season and are still stuck on what took place in 2022.

[dcleftie]

LIV "It's golf Jim, but not as we know it" pretty much somes up LIV. I will never watch these two faced money grabbers. Plus I have no interest watching  mainly second rate over the hill golfers participate in 54 hole tournament comprising of silly uniforms and a load of noise from uneducated crowds. It is like the"Cricket 100" compared to a Test Match - anybody who understands the game isn't interested. And I say good riddance to Rahm. His foul mouthed couldn't care less attitude and inability to curb his childish tantrums is an insult to Seve who he pretends is his hero when it suits him. He will be turning in his grave.
SO I for one, who also have a moral compass regarding what LIV is all about, won't ever be watching it along with millions of others.

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

33 minutes ago, PostandGhost said:

It sounds like you're saying if an employee earns a 401k at their previous job, then the employee shouldn't rollover the 401k if they switch employers?

Your response makes zero sense.  

[wildcatden]

6 hours ago, Hankshank said:

How?

you left out the humorous next sentence. 

[DE-ILLINI]

1 hour ago, aus10KC said:

I still don't understand these trades. Rangegoats traded away 4 wins from last year. 

 

4aces resigned Pat Perez. Why?!?

 

 

I don't think these trades will matter beyond 2024.  There will be some kind of reorganizing of golf as we know it.  PIF does not care about LIV.  It is a complete loss financially for them.  The end game is to have a 'seat at the table' and gain some legitimacy.  These guys are smart business men, sinking hundreds of millions of dollars (maybe billions) with no return is not their plan.  They want to invest in something that has a return and will improve their image.  These signing are short term moves in a long term play.  The Rahm signing is a power play to force the tour to make a decision.  The PGA Tour is in a bad place, they need to negotiate something and they are rapidly losing any leverage they have remaining.   I think the LIV players see the writing on the wall.  If trading Gooch for Wolfe makes life easier for everyone in 2024 do it.  What difference does it really make?  They are all cashing big checks and LIV as we know if going to change in 2024 (either morph into a world tour or they will be a big influx of PGA Tour talent in which case Wolfe goes away).    2024 could be a messy year for golf, lets see what emerges in 2025. 

[GolfGuitarsCars]

Lost all respect for this clown.  (I know he’s devastated). Why say some BS about playing in other Countries and “innovation” when everyone knows it’s for the money like some of the other defectors have.  I’ve watched fifteen minutes of LIV golf and Jon Rham won’t change that.

[aus10KC]

6 minutes ago, DE-ILLINI said:

I don't think these trades will matter beyond 2024.  There will be some kind of reorganizing of golf as we know it.  PIF does not care about LIV.  It is a complete loss financially for them.  The end game is to have a 'seat at the table' and gain some legitimacy.  These guys are smart business men, sinking hundreds of millions of dollars (maybe billions) with no return is not their plan.  They want to invest in something that has a return and will improve their image.  These signing are short term moves in a long term play.  The Rahm signing is a power play to force the tour to make a decision.  The PGA Tour is in a bad place, they need to negotiate something and they are rapidly losing any leverage they have remaining.   I think the LIV players see the writing on the wall.  If trading Gooch for Wolfe makes life easier for everyone in 2024 do it.  What difference does it really make?  They are all cashing big checks and LIV as we know if going to change in 2024 (either morph into a world tour or they will be a big influx of PGA Tour talent in which case Wolfe goes away).    2024 could be a messy year for golf, lets see what emerges in 2025. 

 

 

But we're being told it's all about the team aspect and making it like F1 🤣

[PostandGhost]

11 minutes ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

Your response makes zero sense.  

Well if it's not too much trouble, allow me to elucidate.  It sounded like the poster was saying that a former employee should not have rights to benefits accrued at a former employer, but I wasn't sure.  Before I commented further, I wanted to better understand what the poster was trying to say.  He was comparing benefits accrued at a former employer and I was asking about a more direct, real world example of a 401k instead of a vague term such as "status".  Hopefully that makes better sense.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, PostandGhost said:

Well if it's not too much trouble, allow me to elucidate.  It sounded like the poster was saying that a former employee should not have rights to benefits accrued at a former employer, but I wasn't sure.  Before I commented further, I wanted to better understand what the poster was trying to say.  He was comparing benefits accrued at a former employer and I was asking about a more direct, real world example of a 401k instead of a vague term such as "status".  Hopefully that makes better sense.

Except, of course, the PGAT isn't an employer of the players.

[AmazinBlue]

Notice, of all the top players that have gone to LIV, almost everyone has been a Masters winner. Being able to play in the Masters and assuming they make the cut or play well, they will earn exemptions into the other majors. Its the easiest path for these guys to keep their major status.  I understand the huge dollar draw, but all the things Rahm said about history of the game, chasing records and " 48- player fields with no cut isn't real golf to me" goes out the window.  How much is enough?  If the PGA Tour fails down the road because of this, I blame Phil.  His intense greed to cover his failed investments and gambling debts started all this.

[mikec3672]

As much as I am not a Phil fan, he did not start this, it would have happened with or without him

[NevinW]

Male professional golf is getting less and less interesting to me.  Exhibitions and team golf will never be the same to watch as a real tournament when there is money on the line.  Thank God for the LPGA.  I hope that they can continue to grow and prosper without this infection getting to them too.  

Edited December 8, 2023 by NevinW

[AmazinBlue]

If the European Ryder Cup rules are re-written as Rory is asking for, then the flood gates to LIV will open and the PGA Tour as we know it is done.  If Finau and Hatton flip to LIV, the rest of the dominos will fall and the PIF will control the PGA Tour and Jay will probably be out. It will be a sad day for professional golf. Rahm is the pawn the LIV is using to get the PGA Tour roll over. As it is with everything else, if you want to know why...follow the money.

[AmazinBlue]

Phil didn't really start this, that is true. Greg Norman has been trying to torpedo the PGA Tour for 20 years.  His ego is limitless and his desire to see the Tour fail is never-ending.  I'll admit I'm an old school guy, I liked things the way they were. I get that there was a lot of money the players weren't getting from TV right etc, but the division in professional golf now is not pretty.

[Ghost of Snead]

Just now, AmazinBlue said:

Phil didn't really start this, that is true. Greg Norman has been trying to torpedo the PGA Tour for 20 years.  His ego is limitless and his desire to see the Tour fail is never-ending.  I'll admit I'm an old school guy, I liked things the way they were. I get that there was a lot of money the players weren't getting from TV right etc, but the division in professional golf now is not pretty.

 

Phil didn't start it but he's been at odds with the PGAT for awhile and was the lead recruiter for LIV. 

 

IMO, Phil needed the cash, the PIF stepped up, and he and Norman get to exercise their personal vendettas. 

[Jay28]

1 hour ago, EagleAteBirdie said:

 

It would undoubtedly make Tiger's life worse.

 

Another billion dollars would make very little difference to his quality of life.  Plus, he already has the freedom to play wherever and whenever he chooses.

 

Signing with LIV would mean more commitment, travel and stress. It would also tarnish his hard-earned legacy on the PGA tour.  And for what?  More money that he doesn't need.

 

He made the right decision.

 

 

 

Fair point.

 

I guess I am looking at it assuming he's going to get back playing fairly regularly again - maybe a lighter schedule and still being able to compete with rest of the tour would make sense.

 

I am keen to see what they come up with in terms of the merger.

 

 

[Jay28]

4 hours ago, Dave230 said:

But half the events are in America, it only has two events in Europe. If they made it a truly global tour and ditched the American side of it, then fair enough.

 

I also don't think McIlroy is a fool for having principles.

 

I don't get what principles McElroy has particularly - he abandoned the European tour for the money and prestige of the US tour.

Sure he got his deal to remain a full member - but he plays few events.  He actually got special treatment whilst making the US his home tour.

 

To me I see LIV as just another tour attracting players with more money - just as the US tour did.

The international / global element of the LIV tour make it more so.

 

With the players on the LIV tour now and no doubt more to follow - it's fast becoming the main tour.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jay28

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

7 minutes ago, Jay28 said:

 

Fair point.

 

I guess I am looking at it assuming he's going to get back playing fairly regularly again - maybe a lighter schedule and still being able to compete with rest of the tour would make sense.

 

I am keen to see what they come up with in terms of the merger.

 

 

Due to Tiger's success, he can pick and choose where, when and how often he plays.  He is a lifetime member and will never lose PGA TOUR status.