Do any of you low to mid-handicappers use Super Game Improvement clubs?

[BigEx44]

I'm 65 yrs old.  A solid 9 handicap who sneaks into the 8's occasionally.  I've got reasonable length to my game (for my age...).  I can carry my 7i 140 yds and my driver 210+.  And at this point in my life I don't expect any major improvements in my game.  I'd just like to hold on to where I'm at as long as possible.

 

I'm a competitive person who likes to score and when I hit shots - I'm always just trying to hit them as straight as possible as consistently as possible (I'm not a "worker" of the golf ball).

 

Given all this, I'm really considering moving to some "Super Game Improvement" clubs (more specifically - the irons).  Not because I need help getting the ball in the air or need more distance - but simply because I'm looking for the "easiest" clubs to hit that will give me the greatest consistency.  I'm actually seeking better dispersion rather than more distance (although I wouldn't turn more distance down as long as spin and ball flight remained optimal for holding greens)

 

Plus, I have no golf ego.  I'd have shovels in my bag if that's what worked best (I already "sidesaddle" putt and love my Callaway Mack Daddy Cavity Back wedges).

 

I'm currently using Apex DCB irons GW-7i.  I ditched my 4,5 and 6 irons for Epic Max 11, 9 and 7 woods.  My 4 wood is an old X2 Hot (I have yet to find anything I can hit better).  My driver is a brand new Taylor Made Steath 2 (which I love) at 10.5 degrees.

 

I'm giving heavy thought to switching my irons over to something more along the lines of the Cleveland Launcher XL Halo Irons.  I've been impressed with all the positive reviews.  They're an itch I want to scratch.  I'm going for an iron fitting on Monday so I can also try out the other various SGI irons that are out there (Stealth HD, JPX923, Srixon Z4 MKII, Callaway Paradym X, etc).

 

Of course, if I don't end up hitting any of those clubs any better than my current irons, I won't make the switch.  I want the fitting to confirm I can do better.

 

I was just wondering if any other low to mid handicappers have made this kind of switch to SGI irons - and what they experienced?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by BigEx44

[Ghostwedge]

I remember your side saddle putting video. Got me to try it but no bueno for me.

Finally got to see it up close in tournament conditions. Some it stands by itself alien looking thing. Guy was deadly with it, shot a 76. About 55-56 yrs old, he also used Ping G700 irons, about as super game improvement as you can get.

[green5]

It's been a long time since I've played golf regularly and I'm having this discussion myself as I'd probably be a mid handicapper if I played and practiced frequently. I played once this year with with only a minimal amount of practice but I was surprisingly hitting it pretty well with a decent consistency. I went a sweeping stiff wrist swing and used fairway woods going well into teens and gimmick wedges.  Now I'm even seriously considering the XE1 style sand/lob wedge to complete the set. I've always been good with flop shot but very inconsistent around the green in general since I don't practice much. Using the putter stroke with the chipper really helped my consistency even without any practice.

 

With the stiff wrist sweeping action I lose a good amount of distance. However I'm just so much more consistent and the fairway woods take care of the trajectory and prevent fat shots. I don't even have to think about my swing much, just need to make sure I get a good shoulder turn with a minimal hand action and sweep under the ball. My short game is a mess with no practice whatsoever but at least I know I can get the ball somewhere on the green using the same action with a chipper. 

 

There's a part of me that says I should work more on my regular swing using my traditional equipment setup since I'm still not in my retirement age and I even saw some increase in my distance after working on some of the AMG and Dr Kwon concepts. However using the game improvement clubs with my "easy" swing I am reasonably certain I can go out and keep the ball in play all the time without much practice which I cannot say for my regular irons and wedges using the "aspirational" swing and I don't know if I'll ever get there.

 

Interestingly Alice Cooper apparently carries a 4 handicap with no iron in his bag and he has a simple swing that's very consistent. https://golf.com/gear/fully-equipped-4-things-i-learned-playing-golf-with-alice-cooper/ I didn't think Alice Cooper would be my golf role model but yet here we are. But I also don't want to be like Alice Cooper. I want to be a cool golfer hitting my Mizuno blades and Vokey wedges!

Edited August 3, 2023 by green5

[Jeff58]

Mizuno 923HL.

Loosing swing speed tends to equate to loss of distance in most minds. For the better player though, the significant losses are heigh and spin. Unfortunately, the tendency is to buy loft-jacked SGI irons, which reduce the exact flight components we need most.

 

 

[Mike_C]

I play the Srixon ZX4 MK ii 4 iron, and the ZX5 in my 5 and 6.  I toyed with the idea of playing the ZX4 from 4 to 7 iron, and then the ZX 7 in 7-PW.  I think the ZX4 MK ii's are fantastic clubs, just strong lofted, they could be played by anybody, great feel and very forgiving. 

 

I know Mark Crossfield, while paid by Srixon, plays the ZX4 down to PW, then adds a ZX7 PW.

[COL_B]

3 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

I'm 65 yrs old.  A solid 9 handicap who sneaks into the 8's occasionally.  I've got reasonable length to my game (for my age...).  I can carry my 7i 140 yds and my driver 210+.  And at this point in my life I don't expect any major improvements in my game.  I'd just like to hold on to where I'm at as long as possible.

 

I'm a competitive person who likes to score and when I hit shots - I'm always just trying to hit them as straight as possible as consistently as possible (I'm not a "worker" of the golf ball).

 

Given all this, I'm really considering moving to some "Super Game Improvement" clubs (more specifically - the irons).  Not because I need help getting the ball in the air or need more distance - but simply because I'm looking for the "easiest" clubs to hit that will give me the greatest consistency.  I'm actually seeking better dispersion rather than more distance (although I wouldn't turn more distance down as long as spin and ball flight remained optimal for holding greens)

 

Plus, I have no golf ego.  I'd have shovels in my bag if that's what worked best (I already "sidesaddle" putt and love my Callaway Mack Daddy Cavity Back wedges).

 

I'm currently using Apex DCB irons GW-7i.  I ditched my 4,5 and 6 irons for Epic Max 11, 9 and 7 woods.  My 4 wood is an old X2 Hot (I have yet to find anything I can hit better).  My driver is a brand new Taylor Made Steath 2 (which I love) at 10.5 degrees.

 

I'm giving heavy thought to switching my irons over to something more along the lines of the Cleveland Launcher XL Halo Irons.  I've been impressed with all the positive reviews.  They're an itch I want to scratch.  I'm going for an iron fitting on Monday so I can also try out the other various SGI irons that are out there (Stealth HD, JPX923, Srixon Z4 MKII, Callaway Paradym X, etc).

 

Of course, if I don't end up hitting any of those clubs any better than my current irons, I won't make the switch.  I want the fitting to confirm I can do better.

 

I was just wondering if any other low to mid handicappers have made this kind of switch to SGI irons - and what they experienced?

 

 

Every swing is different, but if you are a decent ball striker, and hit with enough down angle that you don't need "help" getting the ball airborne, I doubt you are going to gain much (and might lose some) consistency from SGIs.

 

My latest foray with Rogue X rentals was a nightmare -- plenty of straight shots with zero idea of how far the ball would go, and huge variance. The offsets led to some pretty brutal super long pull draws.

 

Give them a try, but there is enough tech in players & players distance irons to keep you in the game. Lighter shafts might be an alternative option vs going to shovels. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by COL_B

[NoTalentLefty]

40 minutes ago, green5 said:

It's been a long time since I've played golf regularly and I'm having this discussion myself as I'd probably be a mid handicapper if I played and practiced frequently. I played once this year with with only a minimal amount of practice but I was surprisingly hitting it pretty well with a decent consistency. I went a sweeping stiff wrist swing and used fairway woods going well into teens and gimmick wedges.  Now I'm even seriously considering the XE1 style sand/lob wedge to complete the set. I've always been good with flop shot but very inconsistent around the green in general since I don't practice much. Using the putter stroke with the chipper really helped my consistency even without any practice.

 

With the stiff wrist sweeping action I lose a good amount of distance. However I'm just so much more consistent and the fairway woods take care of the trajectory and prevent fat shots. I don't even have to think about my swing much, just need to make sure I get a good shoulder turn with a minimal hand action and sweep under the ball. My short game is a mess with no practice whatsoever but at least I know I can get the ball somewhere on the green using the same action with a chipper. 

 

There's a part of me that says I should work more on my regular swing using my traditional equipment setup since I'm still not in my retirement age and I even saw some increase in my distance after working on some of the AMG and Dr Kwon concepts. However using the game improvement clubs with my "easy" swing I am reasonably certain I can go out and keep the ball in play all the time without much practice which I cannot say for my regular irons and wedges using the "aspirational" swing and I don't know if I'll ever get there.

 

Interestingly Alice Cooper apparently carries a 4 handicap with no iron in his bag and he has a simple swing that's very consistent. https://golf.com/gear/fully-equipped-4-things-i-learned-playing-golf-with-alice-cooper/ I didn't think Alice Cooper would be my golf role model but yet here we are. But I also don't want to be like Alice Cooper. I want to be a cool golfer hitting my Mizuno blades and Vokey wedges!

Good article! I’m planning sometime after 65 maybe 66 going all hybrid irons . But the immediate thing I get from him is the payout with scratchers. Going to pass that by our group.

[phizzy30]

SGI irons tend to work better for golfers who are pickers IMO because the COG tends to be lower on the face which in turn helps elevate the ball.  The soles tend to be more rounded as well.  If you're a digger, I'd stay away from SGI irons.

[boggyman]

I can definitely attest to the above on hitting down on the ball and not needing or needing help getting the ball in the air. I’ve toyed lately, AGAIN, with SGI myself as I have in the past. I’m a steep digger, my natural swing. I swing my swing. Yesterday the proof for me was definitely in the pudding. Been playing Cobra T Rails with graphite. Struggled tremendously, especially in the deep rough of the short grass. Back 9 I went to playing outta our son’s bag, 4/5 are 790s and 6-W are 730s with 6.0 steel. Difference was night and day, started striping the ball. Son just looks and smiles. Sold the Cobras yesterday and put my 17s FIRMLY in the bag when I got home.,Good luck to ya!!

Edited August 3, 2023 by boggyman

[tatertot]

Below a 4 with AP1s ...

[BigEx44]

3 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

SGI irons tend to work better for golfers who are pickers IMO because the COG tends to be lower on the face which in turn helps elevate the ball.  The soles tend to be more rounded as well.  If you're a digger, I'd stay away from SGI irons.

 

I wouldn't call myself a "picker".  I'm a "sweeper"!  😉  Part of the reason why I think SGI irons might help me.

[A.Princey]

Around a 5, using yuuuuge Cobra King OS shovels. Definitely not holding me back at all, been very consistent with them. 

[Gsea]

older 4 cap

buy Ping G430s and thank me later, its like cheating

[Port and Starboard]

There are at least 8 very good players (that I can think of) with handicaps ranging from 2-6 in my association that use GI irons and woods.

 

I played blades and cavity back players irons for a large portion of my golfing life basically because that's what I learned with, but I never understood the stigma that some people put on GI irons. Want to talk about a contrast?  I used to swap out my Tourney M85 irons for Ping Zing's in the winter for quite a few years because the Zing's didn't hurt my hands in the cold with mishits.  

[Sir-Shanks-A-Lot]

I'm 55 so a bit younger than OP and I've always played more forgiving clubs - have no ego where gear is concerned and I'm happy with anything that gets the ball airborne and flying at least reasonably straight. I'm playing Mizuno MX-200s (4-G) right now and my previous set were Adams Ovations. Both firmly in the GI/SGI category. I don't keep a handicap yet, as I have just come back to the game, but I normally shot mid-90s before I quit the game. Oddly enough, since I started playing again this summer, I find my MXs more consistently longer and straighter than they ever were before, so I must be doing something right ...🙃 

 

Perhaps the club snobs who look down their noses at the "shovels" we plebs are swinging should give them a try - they might just be surprised (flame suit on!!).

 

Cheers guys ...

Edited August 4, 2023 by Sir-Shanks-A-Lot

[me05501]

Once you go into that category of iron you’re basically giving up any kind of shot you might use an iron for other than a full swing, full distance attempt. Chips, punches, knockdowns, etc go right out the window (at least if you care about controlling distance). 
 

That’s the trade off. Might bother some players and not others. 

[golfschnell]

Or you can use an iron with SGI forgiveness but not the offset and fat soles that usually make SGI un-hittable for me. I’m in my 60s and play these 4-aw because even the 4 iron is super easy to hit. I love the minimalist aesthetics as well and feel, spin and consistency in numbers are perfect for my game. My handicap bounces between 5-8 based on playing time.

[Sparty4202]

On 8/3/2023 at 7:40 AM, BigEx44 said:

I'm currently using Apex DCB irons GW-7i.  I ditched my 4,5 and 6 irons for Epic Max 11, 9 and 7 woods.  My 4 wood is an old X2 Hot (I have yet to find anything I can hit better).  M

I think you’re on the right track by doing a fitting and being open minded. As for SG Improving irons I’ll say this…it all depends… I’m a slight bit older (70) and I’ve tried the SGI irons and they were a no go for me. I’m a picker and the wide sole irons are a disaster. Also played a 60+ gram  graphite iron shaft for about 2-3 years and it didn’t work, couldn't feel the club head. Even for me the Apex DCBs didn’t feel right, most of my playing partners are using them..if the SGI irons work you should try the Ping G430s maybe even the G430HL, I’ve heard good things about them. 

[Nessism]

I switched from blades and small pocket irons to full size GI irons a number of years ago, and I'll never go back.  High and straight is the order of the day.  I've been a high single for most of my playing years, going back to the early 1980's, until recently, due to back problems limiting participation.    

 

Guys complaining about inconsistent distance make me scratch my head, because I've never had that problem.  

 

There have been several epic threads here about low cap/scratch guys using Ping G series irons.  One centered on G15 irons, and another on G25's.  Great, great, clubs.

[BigBlue7]

21 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

SGI irons tend to work better for golfers who are pickers IMO because the COG tends to be lower on the face which in turn helps elevate the ball.  The soles tend to be more rounded as well.  If you're a digger, I'd stay away from SGI irons.

I see it the complete opposite.  You want a wider sole with more bounce if you are a digger.

 

I am a picker and a large sole is no bueno for me.  Couple that with how high GI/SGIs launch, when I am already not delofting the club at impact, means absolute moonballs.

 

I turn 40 next summer and currently gaming 919 Tours that I was fit into 4 years ago.  I would love a little more forgiveness, but I need to find something that can do it without a thicker sole and higher ball flight.

[BigEx44]

3 minutes ago, Sparty4202 said:

I think you’re on the right track by doing a fitting and being open minded. As for SG Improving irons I’ll say this…it all depends… I’m a slight bit older (70) and I’ve tried the SGI irons and they were a no go for me. I’m a picker and the wide sole irons are a disaster. Also played a 60+ gram  graphite iron shaft for about 2-3 years and it didn’t work, couldn't feel the club head. Even for me the Apex DCBs didn’t feel right, most of my playing partners are using them..if the SGI irons work you should try the Ping G430s maybe even the G430HL, I’ve heard good things about them. 

 

Interesting.  I would think wide soles are made for pickers (sweepers) versus diggers.  I'm also worried about club weight - more specifically swing weight.  My current irons are D4's.   I too, like to feel the club head.  I'm wondering if my current 85g gram shafts might be a little heavy.  I'll be interested to see if a lighter shaft maintaining a heavier swing weight might help.

 

This is all why I want to do a fitting before making any changes.  Too many variables to chance by just ordering clubs myself.  Thanks for the feedback.

[Sparty4202]

21 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

SGI irons tend to work better for golfers who are pickers IMO because the COG tends to be lower on the face which in turn helps elevate the ball. 

I’m a picker and for me it’s just the opposite. The wide sole SGI irons are the worst for me. Also as a picker I have no trouble getting the ball air borne, I’m actually trying to flight my short irons down right now.

Ian Fraser from TXG golf talks about turf interaction a lot and he recommends a thinner sole iron for a picker. I had a set of Ping G35 irons I was fitted into before my current setup and the wide soles really screwed up my iron game…and I was fit by a very reputable fitter. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Sparty4202

[Sparty4202]

11 minutes ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Interesting.  I would think wide soles are made for pickers (sweepers) versus diggers.  I'm also worried about club weight - more specifically swing weight.  My current irons are D4's.   I too, like to feel the club head.  I'm wondering if my current 85g gram shafts might be a little heavy.  I'll be interested to see if a lighter shaft maintaining a heavier swing weight might help.

 

This is all why I want to do a fitting before making any changes.  Too many variables to chance by just ordering clubs myself.  Thanks for the feedback.

You must be playing the TT Elevate 85…I’m playing the Elevate 95 and love them. Had been playing UST Recoil 65 and SteelFiber i70s before the change. Could probably play the SteelFiber i70 or 80 if I had to but they are costly. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Sparty4202

[BigBlue7]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Once you go into that category of iron you’re basically giving up any kind of shot you might use an iron for other than a full swing, full distance attempt. Chips, punches, knockdowns, etc go right out the window (at least if you care about controlling distance). 
 

That’s the trade off. Might bother some players and not others. 

 

Complete and absolute myth.

[gvogel]

I'm 70, with comparable distances to the OP (Driver 215-220, 7-iron 140).  When I was 60, I went to AP1's with regular shafts (105T), and a Ping G25 driver, 4-wood, 5-wood, 7-wood.  At that point I could still hit my 5-iron.  I played very respectable golf, with more than a few nine holes in 36 - 39.

 

I'm 70 now, and just went to T300 irons (T100s PW) 7-iron to 9-iron with Nippon 950 NEO shafts.  They go farther than my AP1's because of the lower lofts and the lighter irons, which I need at this point.  For what it is worth, there is nothing wrong with mixing in a player's 9-iron and PW with game improvement clubs, because they are more fun to chip and pitch around the greens.

[Lftygolfnut]

What would you consider the Apex DCB then? They’re definitely in the GI/SGI category and are a super friendly iron to hit. 

[tatertot]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Once you go into that category of iron you’re basically giving up any kind of shot you might use an iron for other than a full swing, full distance attempt. Chips, punches, knockdowns, etc go right out the window (at least if you care about controlling distance). 
 

That’s the trade off. Might bother some players and not others. 

You need to alert my clubs of this. I hit chips, punches and knockdowns all the time. Just because you can't hit those shots with certain clubs doesn't mean nobody can.

Edited August 4, 2023 by tatertot

[Nessism]

I'm a digger, and LOVE irons with a lot of bounce and a fair bit of sole width.  There is a par 3 course in my area, hitting off thin mats, and I have no problem making good contact with the ball using my G30 irons.  Honestly, I think the whole wide sole is bad for pickers/sweepers business is mostly in peoples heads.  Case in point: Ping I series irons.  They have tons of bounce, and rarely do sweepers/pickers make an issue of it, because they are tour worthy irons.

[BigEx44]

28 minutes ago, Lftygolfnut said:

What would you consider the Apex DCB then? They’re definitely in the GI/SGI category and are a super friendly iron to hit. 

 

I would consider the Apex DCB's to be "Game Improvement" irons (GI)

 

I think the Cleveland Launcher Halo's and some of the other clubs being discussed would fall into the "Super Game Improvement" category.

 

Typically, the GI clubs are for mid-handicappers looking for help.  The SGI clubs have usually been thought of as clubs for high handicappers and beginners.

[RogerinNewZealand]

1 hour ago, Nessism said:

I switched from blades and small pocket irons to full size GI irons a number of years ago, and I'll never go back.  High and straight is the order of the day.  I've been a high single for most of my playing years, going back to the early 1980's, until recently, due to back problems limiting participation.    

 

Guys complaining about inconsistent distance make me scratch my head, because I've never had that problem.  

 

There have been several epic threads here about low cap/scratch guys using Ping G series irons.  One centered on G15 irons, and another on G25's.  Great, great, clubs.

Ness, i'm even earlier. The G5's red dot brings back happy memories and i may buy another set OctNov. The Pings don't have the Flyer Syndrome as they are not super thin face tech.