Who has the iron edge for seniors in 2024?

[jjfcpa]

I've watched some reviews done by the same reviewer for the Callaway AI Smoke HL, Taylormade Qi10, and Cobra Darkspeed and could identify the following differences between them.  

 

Obviously, there could be more significant differences if I were to swing these, but that probably won't happen.  These were individually reviewed and not really done in a comparison environment, but I gleaned this information from the specs they included in the reviews.

 

Cobra gets the edge on spin by a few hundred revs.

Taylormade gets the edge on distance - by a couple yards

Dispersion is a push.

Cobra seems to fly higher by about 10 feet.

Descent angle edge goes to Cobra as well by one or two percentage points.

Price is about the same when I configured them for my specs.

They all accept trade-ins now.

Shaft and grip options are optimal for all.

 

If you're a senior golfer and were going to pick one without a fitting, which one would you give the edge to?  Asking for a friend.

 

[bekgolf]

4 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

I've watched some reviews done by the same reviewer for the Callaway AI Smoke HL, Taylormade Qi10, and Cobra Darkspeed and could identify the following differences between them.  

 

Obviously, there could be more significant differences if I were to swing these, but that probably won't happen.  These were individually reviewed and not really done in a comparison environment, but I gleaned this information from the specs they included in the reviews.

 

Cobra gets the edge on spin by a few hundred revs.

Taylormade gets the edge on distance - by a couple yards

Dispersion is a push.

Cobra seems to fly higher by about 10 feet.

Descent angle edge goes to Cobra as well by one or two percentage points.

Price is about the same when I configured them for my specs.

They all accept trade-ins now.

Shaft and grip options are optimal for all.

 

If you're a senior golfer and were going to pick one without a fitting, which one would you give the edge to?  Asking for a friend.

 

 

I am a senior golfer and I'd give Tour Edge Exotics a look if you haven't already done so.  If your purchase doesn't work out they will give you money back in the first 30 days.

 

They also have a Certified Pre Owned and Closeout section that offer significant savings for new or barely used clubs.

 

https://shop.touredge.com/pages/certified-pre-owned

 

Or, if you want to pay full price for brand spanking new current models:

 

https://shop.touredge.com/collections/tour-edge-exotics-723-series

 

Prices will probably be dropping on the C723 series because the C724 is due to come out.

Edited January 14 by bekgolf

[erock9174]

My local store had the darkspeed irons in last week. I hit the 7i with the stock graphite reg flex.  Holy low launch and spin. I couldn’t get the descent angle above 34-35*  and the spin was something like crazy low like 2700-3300 with my 70 mph 7i swing. Kid working there asked me if I liked it. I said yeah it puts up great driver spin numbers if that’s what you want out of an 7i And handed it back. Sad part is they looked great. 

[dmeeksDC]

I would demo the AI Smoke and Smoke HL and if I liked them, adjust lofts as needed to hit spin/height/descent window. I’m going by the Smoke already being identified as being pretty amazing on thin strikes, which I certainly have in my arsenal. They’ll all be good on toe strikes.

 

The Smoke line has a lot of tungsten weighting, the new variable face, and Callaway continues to tweak the microspheres (which I thought made the Paradym irons feel great.) Smoke irons are also way cheaper than the Paradyms. And they’re not huge. I don’t love that little marbled strip on the back of them but that’s not the end of the world. Overall I think they look nice. I see these as a set a better player would like the look of. Reviews are finding more spin in the Smoke vs the Paradym line and players can get more if wanted via loft changes. 
 

I don’t get too fixated on standard specs. Just a baseline. Any iron can be loft adjusted 2 degrees in either direction. Shafts play a big role but loft has the greatest impact on performance by far. The Darkspeed irons look good too, but I think the Smoke and Smoke HL have more going for them. I like some offset and the Smoke irons have it, but the Cobras have quite a bit more in the long irons. 

 

 

[Greenie]

The Cobra Darkspeed irons caught my eye. From what I gather from the online reviews I looked at with their strong lofts for us slower swingers we may not be able to get optimal numbers without going with a weaker loft adjustment in combo with the right shaft.

 

My friend got fitted for irons two weeks ago. He has a 74 swing speed. I don't know all the irons he demoed but he got the best results and went with the Srixon ZX4 mkii. He did mention the G430 and JPX923 HL gave him good results. 

 

I know of two other senior people in my local forum mentioning in the last two weeks about being fit into the ZX4 mkii and how surprised they were with their results. 

 

I can't wait to check out my friend's irons. His specs are similar to mine so I'm curious to hit a few balls with them. 

[bluedot]

13 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

I've watched some reviews done by the same reviewer for the Callaway AI Smoke HL, Taylormade Qi10, and Cobra Darkspeed and could identify the following differences between them.  

 

Obviously, there could be more significant differences if I were to swing these, but that probably won't happen.  These were individually reviewed and not really done in a comparison environment, but I gleaned this information from the specs they included in the reviews.

 

Cobra gets the edge on spin by a few hundred revs.

Taylormade gets the edge on distance - by a couple yards

Dispersion is a push.

Cobra seems to fly higher by about 10 feet.

Descent angle edge goes to Cobra as well by one or two percentage points.

Price is about the same when I configured them for my specs.

They all accept trade-ins now.

Shaft and grip options are optimal for all.

 

If you're a senior golfer and were going to pick one without a fitting, which one would you give the edge to?  Asking for a friend.

 

If you aren’t going to get fitted, then it doesn’t matter which one you get; any of them will be good, serviceable irons.  And since you won’t know which head/shaft combo is best for YOUR swing, the odds would be the same on any of them being a good fit for you.

Edited January 14 by bluedot

[jjfcpa]

2 hours ago, bluedot said:

If you aren’t going to get fitted, then it doesn’t matter which one you get; any of them will be good, serviceable irons.  And since you won’t know which head/shaft combo is best for YOUR swing, the odds would be the same on any of them being a good fit for you.

I've had a number of fittings and the specs are pretty much always the same.  I think you are probably right that any of these would be serviceable and the differences after a fitting might be minor.  Just curious on how others have reacted to these new releases.

[jjfcpa]

10 hours ago, Greenie said:

The Cobra Darkspeed irons caught my eye. From what I gather from the online reviews I looked at with their strong lofts for us slower swingers we may not be able to get optimal numbers without going with a weaker loft adjustment in combo with the right shaft.

 

My friend got fitted for irons two weeks ago. He has a 74 swing speed. I don't know all the irons he demoed but he got the best results and went with the Srixon ZX4 mkii. He did mention the G430 and JPX923 HL gave him good results. 

 

I know of two other senior people in my local forum mentioning in the last two weeks about being fit into the ZX4 mkii and how surprised they were with their results. 

 

I can't wait to check out my friend's irons. His specs are similar to mine so I'm curious to hit a few balls with them. 

 

I've tried the ZX4 mk II and found that I could not get the swing speed that I could with other irons.  They just felt heavy even with a senior shaft.  I still have the 4 iron and it does feel great, but just can't get optimal swing speed.  

[jjfcpa]

13 hours ago, erock9174 said:

My local store had the darkspeed irons in last week. I hit the 7i with the stock graphite reg flex.  Holy low launch and spin. I couldn’t get the descent angle above 34-35*  and the spin was something like crazy low like 2700-3300 with my 70 mph 7i swing. Kid working there asked me if I liked it. I said yeah it puts up great driver spin numbers if that’s what you want out of an 7i And handed it back. Sad part is they looked great. 

 

There in lies the problem.  I ordered a 7i in the Darkspeed because I'm afraid of the same thing.  I have a launch monitor to do a fair comparison.  With that kind of descent angle and spin numbers, I'd reject them too. 

[Pepperturbo]

I am senior, only can't decide for anyone else.  I am a diehard Titleist guy, playing new T100 irons, 3-PW.  Might look harder at either T200 or T350, depending on the degree of help sought.  They are fine clubs.

[Greenie]

1 hour ago, jjfcpa said:

 

I've tried the ZX4 mk II and found that I could not get the swing speed that I could with other irons.  They just felt heavy even with a senior shaft.  I still have the 4 iron and it does feel great, but just can't get optimal swing speed.  

I am curious to hit my friends irons when we get together to play. 

At the moment all I have to go on is a phone conversation with him after his fitting. He did mention that his swing speed was lower with the ZX4 mkii but he attributed that to hitting them first before he really got lose and then revisiting them at the end when he was tired. He said his optimal numbers going by what the fitter said was between the JPX 923 HL  and the ZX4 mkii . He went with the ZX4 mkii because he hit them farther and he felt he hit them the best. I told him the extra distance were most likely from the stronger lofts of the ZX4 mkii. I know he is all about distance. His last comment he made during our conversation was how much lighter the clubs felt to him compared to his old clubs. His old clubs are from 2009. The only thing I found odd about his fitting was with a Swing Speed of 74 his was fit into a stiff shaft. I guess that is why we should all be fit. Different strokes for different folks.

[jomatty]

If you are not able to demo them then I would just get whichever ones you like the look of best.  Obviously the best bet is to get fit or demo extensively but sometimes that is not possible.  It’s so hard to go by other peoples experience and results as swings are so different.  Might as well get the ones you like the look of…

[CROUSE99]

I game the Mizuno JPX 923 HL's.  They give me exactly what I need -- higher flight, steeper descent angles and more spin.  The interesting thing is I haven't lost distance compared to the stronger lofted irons I had been playing.  I think you are going to see a lot of manufacturers introducing similar offerings for us older low ball hitters.

[bluedot]

4 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

I've had a number of fittings and the specs are pretty much always the same.  I think you are probably right that any of these would be serviceable and the differences after a fitting might be minor.  Just curious on how others have reacted to these new releases.

I’m sure you’re aware of this, but specs can change from one OEM to another.  I always played Pings 3* upright, but standard in Titleist.  And we won’t even get into shaft weight and flex.  

[ChipNRun]

23 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

If you're a senior golfer and were going to pick one without a fitting, which one would you give the edge to?  Asking for a friend.

 

💥 Don't do it man! The first law of WRX is 1. Get fitted. You could get thrown off the site for leading your friend astray.

[TNwanabe]

Without a doubt I recommend the Mizuno High Loft irons. Just perfect for those of us who need help getting the ball in the air. Exceptional feel as well. 

[Greenie]

3 hours ago, CROUSE99 said:

I game the Mizuno JPX 923 HL's.  They give me exactly what I need -- higher flight, steeper descent angles and more spin.  The interesting thing is I haven't lost distance compared to the stronger lofted irons I had been playing.  I think you are going to see a lot of manufacturers introducing similar offerings for us older low ball hitters.

 If I was in the market for new irons the JPX 923 HL's interest me the most. A lot of these irons out now with their strong lofts are a turn off to me. I play the G410 irons and I am very happy with them but even with those the stronger lofts were a turn off for me but the results have been good. Now you have the G430's with an extra wedge in the set. The new Cobra Darkspeed with their lofts..I looked at Tour Edge and they have an extra wedge in the set too.

[PingPoncho]

CLEVELAND HALO XL FULL FACE IRONS

[Davidv]

XXIO 13.

[jjfcpa]

isn't it funny that many of the manufacturers are just now starting to realize that if you need a light weight shaft, you probably need more loft too.  I thought the purpose of the lower CG (tungsten weighting) was to get the ball up in the air.  Or do they feel comfortable adding loft because the extra tungsten will offset the distance loss from the additional loft?

 

It seems like ever manufacturer is trying to solve this for mid cappers, but perhaps the only way to get more height is to add more loft?

[ChaosTheory]

5 minutes ago, jjfcpa said:

isn't it funny that many of the manufacturers are just now starting to realize that if you need a light weight shaft, you probably need more loft too.  I thought the purpose of the lower CG (tungsten weighting) was to get the ball up in the air.  Or do they feel comfortable adding loft because the extra tungsten will offset the distance loss from the additional loft?

 

It seems like ever manufacturer is trying to solve this for mid cappers, but perhaps the only way to get more height is to add more loft?

 

IMO the target customer is younger than seniors, has more swing speed, but does not strike the ball very well.  That person can be sold more distance which comes from stronger lofts, and more forgiveness and height which comes from the engineering.  Lower spin is part of the package too.

 

Slow swingers like you and me need spin and launch, much more than we need more distance.  I don't care about hitting my 7 iron farther, I care about being able to keep it on the green.  Since the advent of the really strong lofted SGI irons, I've played with many peers who I think are being hindered more than helped by them.  They can't hit the ball high enough.

 

So maybe some of the companies are now addressing this.  I have to say though, that when a person buys a weaker lofted set, the first thing they do is complain that the clubs are flying shorter.  I have seen this first hand.

 

As far as super light shafts, they already are super light.  Probably too light for good playing if someone has a good swing.  But yes, they will be even lighter for senior applications.

[jjfcpa]

On 1/15/2024 at 1:13 PM, ChaosTheory said:

 

IMO the target customer is younger than seniors, has more swing speed, but does not strike the ball very well.  That person can be sold more distance which comes from stronger lofts, and more forgiveness and height which comes from the engineering.  Lower spin is part of the package too.

 

Slow swingers like you and me need spin and launch, much more than we need more distance.  I don't care about hitting my 7 iron farther, I care about being able to keep it on the green.  Since the advent of the really strong lofted SGI irons, I've played with many peers who I think are being hindered more than helped by them.  They can't hit the ball high enough.

 

So maybe some of the companies are now addressing this.  I have to say though, that when a person buys a weaker lofted set, the first thing they do is complain that the clubs are flying shorter.  I have seen this first hand.

 

As far as super light shafts, they already are super light.  Probably too light for good playing if someone has a good swing.  But yes, they will be even lighter for senior applications.

I've tried a couple of these HL clubs that are supposed to give you more height and spin and I'm not seeing it.  Tested them on a launch monitor and the only thing I've seen is less distance and sometimes a couple hundred more rpm's.  In my opinion, it's another marketing gimmick.  I've been ordering my irons with lighter shafts and grips for a while now and I don't really see any other difference with the HL models.

[JAM01]

5 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

I've tried a couple of these HL clubs that are supposed to give you more height and spin and I'm not seeing it.  Tested them on a launch monitor and the only thing I've seen is less distance and sometimes a couple hundred more rpm's.  In my opinion, it's another marketing gimmick.  I've been ordering my irons with lighter shafts and grips for a while now and I don't really see any other difference with the HL models.

I’ve seen the same. JPX 923 hl and G430 hl specifically both had a higher launch shaft, Ping was the Alta quick. I had high (pun intended) hopes. But distance was down, and I need all the distance I can get. I decided to go with a lighter shaft in a stronger loft. So PXG 0211 with Cypher graphite in the bag now. I also like that the 5.5 is allegedly regular but seems more stout than a regular, regular. I’ll see as the season progresses. 

[Soccerrick10]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:55 PM, jjfcpa said:

I've watched some reviews done by the same reviewer for the Callaway AI Smoke HL, Taylormade Qi10, and Cobra Darkspeed and could identify the following differences between them.  

 

Obviously, there could be more significant differences if I were to swing these, but that probably won't happen.  These were individually reviewed and not really done in a comparison environment, but I gleaned this information from the specs they included in the reviews.

 

Cobra gets the edge on spin by a few hundred revs.

Taylormade gets the edge on distance - by a couple yards

Dispersion is a push.

Cobra seems to fly higher by about 10 feet.

Descent angle edge goes to Cobra as well by one or two percentage points.

Price is about the same when I configured them for my specs.

They all accept trade-ins now.

Shaft and grip options are optimal for all.

 

If you're a senior golfer and were going to pick one without a fitting, which one would you give the edge to?  Asking for a friend.

 

 

 

It all depends on what issues you are trying to solve:

Todays-Golfer.com (although, this may be dated with some new entries)

Iron	7-Iron Loft	Ball Speed	Launch Angle	Backspin	Height	Descent Angle	Carry Distance	Carry Distance Drop Off	Shot Area
Yonex Ezone Elite 4		125.6 MPH (3)	13.9°	4752 RPM	28 YDS	41.6°	187 YDS (1)	14 YDS	219.8 SQ YDS
Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL	30°	127.4 MPH (1)	14.8°	5654 RPM	32 YDS	45.2°	185 YDS (2)	6 YDS (T1)	103.8 SQ YDS (2)
Cleveland Halo XL Full Face	29°	123.9 MPH	14.8°	5079 RPM	29 YDS	42.2°	184 YDS (3)	13 YDS	399.1 SQ YDS
Ram Wizard	30°	125.1 MPH	14.4°	5526 RPM	29 YDS	43.8°	181 YDS	6 YDS (T1)	172.8 SQ YDS
Eleven	31°	127.2 MPH (T2)	15.9°	6454 RPM	34 YDS	47.4°	180 YDS	9 YDS	169.2 SQ YDS
TaylorMade Stealth HD	30°	123 MPH	15.8°	5300 RPM	30 YDS	44.1°	180 YDS	7 YDS (T2)	140 SQ YDS (3)
Cobra Air X	31.5°	123.6 MPH	14.9°	6053 RPM	30 YDS	44.8°	176 YDS	7 YDS (T2)	53.2 SQ YDS (1)
PXG 0211 Z	31°	123.3 MPH	15.5°	6334 RPM	31 YDS	45.6°	175 YDS	15 YDS	318 SQ YDS
Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL	31°	122 MPH	16.5°	6025 RPM	32 YDS	45.7°	175 YDS	14 YDS	231 SQ YDS
Average		124.6 MPH	15.2°	5686 RPM	30.6 YDS	44.5°	180.3 YDS	10.1 YDS	200.8 SQ YDS

 

Distance - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL, Cleveland Halo XL Full Face

Ball Speed - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL, Eleven Hybrid Irons

Back Spin - Eleven, PXG 0211 Z

Height - Eleven, Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL / Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL

Descent Angle - Eleven, Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL

Carry Dropoff (mishits) - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL, TaylorMade Stealth HD / Cobra Air X

Shot Area (dispersion) - Cobra Air X, Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL

 

I won't make a decision on clubs as a senior until I watch what this reviewer has to say.  He is the only one to test at 70 and 80 mph swing speeds, fully reviews forgiveness when hit all over the face and will talk openly at what point (4i, 5i, 6i, 7i on a given club) that a golfer should abandon irons and replace. with hybrids. 

                 https://www.youtube.com/@AskGolfNut

 

I am currently playing the Stealth HD irons.  They are the most forgiving based on Maltby Playability Factors - just another data point for evaluation.

 

If I were to be replacing anything today, I would consider the Callaway (not my favorite brand) and the Eleven hybrid irons (not my favorite look) against the Stealth HD.  Again, it comes down to what areas the senior wants / needs to improve.  Otherwise, I don't think there is a single answer to your question.

 

For me personally, this was a gut wrenching decision.  I LOVE my PXG 0317 T irons and play them when I am really grooving the swing.  But, every time the swing goes away, the HD's get put in play to salvage the next round and most importantly, give me back the confidence.

 

 

 

[platgof]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:25 PM, Greenie said:

The Cobra Darkspeed irons caught my eye. From what I gather from the online reviews I looked at with their strong lofts for us slower swingers we may not be able to get optimal numbers without going with a weaker loft adjustment in combo with the right shaft.

 

My friend got fitted for irons two weeks ago. He has a 74 swing speed. I don't know all the irons he demoed but he got the best results and went with the Srixon ZX4 mkii. He did mention the G430 and JPX923 HL gave him good results. 

 

I know of two other senior people in my local forum mentioning in the last two weeks about being fit into the ZX4 mkii and how surprised they were with their results. 

 

I can't wait to check out my friend's irons. His specs are similar to mine so I'm curious to hit a few balls with them. 

Uhm, what shaft and flex please?

[CROUSE99]

4 hours ago, Soccerrick10 said:

 

 

It all depends on what issues you are trying to solve:

Todays-Golfer.com (although, this may be dated with some new entries)

Iron	7-Iron Loft	Ball Speed	Launch Angle	Backspin	Height	Descent Angle	Carry Distance	Carry Distance Drop Off	Shot Area
Yonex Ezone Elite 4		125.6 MPH (3)	13.9°	4752 RPM	28 YDS	41.6°	187 YDS (1)	14 YDS	219.8 SQ YDS
Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL	30°	127.4 MPH (1)	14.8°	5654 RPM	32 YDS	45.2°	185 YDS (2)	6 YDS (T1)	103.8 SQ YDS (2)
Cleveland Halo XL Full Face	29°	123.9 MPH	14.8°	5079 RPM	29 YDS	42.2°	184 YDS (3)	13 YDS	399.1 SQ YDS
Ram Wizard	30°	125.1 MPH	14.4°	5526 RPM	29 YDS	43.8°	181 YDS	6 YDS (T1)	172.8 SQ YDS
Eleven	31°	127.2 MPH (T2)	15.9°	6454 RPM	34 YDS	47.4°	180 YDS	9 YDS	169.2 SQ YDS
TaylorMade Stealth HD	30°	123 MPH	15.8°	5300 RPM	30 YDS	44.1°	180 YDS	7 YDS (T2)	140 SQ YDS (3)
Cobra Air X	31.5°	123.6 MPH	14.9°	6053 RPM	30 YDS	44.8°	176 YDS	7 YDS (T2)	53.2 SQ YDS (1)
PXG 0211 Z	31°	123.3 MPH	15.5°	6334 RPM	31 YDS	45.6°	175 YDS	15 YDS	318 SQ YDS
Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL	31°	122 MPH	16.5°	6025 RPM	32 YDS	45.7°	175 YDS	14 YDS	231 SQ YDS
Average		124.6 MPH	15.2°	5686 RPM	30.6 YDS	44.5°	180.3 YDS	10.1 YDS	200.8 SQ YDS

 

Distance - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL, Cleveland Halo XL Full Face

Ball Speed - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL, Eleven Hybrid Irons

Back Spin - Eleven, PXG 0211 Z

Height - Eleven, Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL / Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL

Descent Angle - Eleven, Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL

Carry Dropoff (mishits) - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL, TaylorMade Stealth HD / Cobra Air X

Shot Area (dispersion) - Cobra Air X, Callaway Paradym AI Smoke HL

 

I won't make a decision on clubs as a senior until I watch what this reviewer has to say.  He is the only one to test at 70 and 80 mph swing speeds, fully reviews forgiveness when hit all over the face and will talk openly at what point (4i, 5i, 6i, 7i on a given club) that a golfer should abandon irons and replace. with hybrids. 

                 https://www.youtube.com/@AskGolfNut

 

I am currently playing the Stealth HD irons.  They are the most forgiving based on Maltby Playability Factors - just another data point for evaluation.

 

If I were to be replacing anything today, I would consider the Callaway (not my favorite brand) and the Eleven hybrid irons (not my favorite look) against the Stealth HD.  Again, it comes down to what areas the senior wants / needs to improve.  Otherwise, I don't think there is a single answer to your question.

 

For me personally, this was a gut wrenching decision.  I LOVE my PXG 0317 T irons and play them when I am really grooving the swing.  But, every time the swing goes away, the HD's get put in play to salvage the next round and most importantly, give me back the confidence.

 

 

 

I like that askgolfnut tests at different speeds but I suspect he is using the same stiff or extra stiff shaft at all 3 speeds, which is probably not a good test of how the club does at the slower speeds.

[Greenie]

5 minutes ago, platgof said:

Uhm, what shaft and flex please?

He was fitted with NS Pro 950 GH  stiff flex. 

[boggyman]

I’d have “the friend”  look at new Cleveland line. On a plus, it’ll save some coin as well! 

[boggyman]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:12 AM, PingPoncho said:

CLEVELAND HALO XL FULL FACE IRONS

I’ll second this as a high possibility!