Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[moegolfer11]

Please read post #1540. This young man frequently played with a Symetra player from the same tees and couldn't beat her. He's better than a 4 hcp and she is at the bottom of the LPGA tour.

 

 

I have beaten her a couple times.

 

Not your "fault" but don't ya hate when that happens ?!?!?! :lol:

 

 

 

]The weakness in your statement is that you have a 4 hdcp who averages 290 off the tee and can regularly find the ball. His best potential score would be 76-77, with his high scores scores dismissed. The young lady you chose has a scoring average that counts all rounds, they are all competitive rounds, and all under tournament conditions. It is possible that a 4 could catch an LPGA player on a bad day and beat her once, but it is also possible that I will be invited to play ANGC. The superb ball striking 4 hdcp player is the Yeti of golf forums, and a 290 driving avg is about Jordan Spieth length.

 

The weakness in your statement is that the LPGA driving average is about 240 and they often play from ~ 6300 yards and that not only wouldn't the 50 extra yards off the tee mean anything but neither would the 2 or 3 less clubs the guy would need going into the greens make a difference either.

 

So she's moving back about 40 yards per hole and yet will shoot the same gross score.

 

LOL a Freudian Slip on my part! Now all I can think of is that Bill Burr skit...I think the distance thing is over thought because they are good with EVERY club long and short. The average LPGA course is 6,200-6,600 yards. The latter isn't as short as it is made out to be. Just because it's shorter doesn't mean it's easier. Still gotta be on point with your low irons and wedges! I think this would be a fun concept for Golf Channel to have a TV show on somehow

[Shilgy]

Please read post #1540. This young man frequently played with a Symetra player from the same tees and couldn't beat her. He's better than a 4 hcp and she is at the bottom of the LPGA tour.

 

 

I have beaten her a couple times.

 

Not your "fault" but don't ya hate when that happens ?!?!?! :lol:

 

 

 

]The weakness in your statement is that you have a 4 hdcp who averages 290 off the tee and can regularly find the ball. His best potential score would be 76-77, with his high scores scores dismissed. The young lady you chose has a scoring average that counts all rounds, they are all competitive rounds, and all under tournament conditions. It is possible that a 4 could catch an LPGA player on a bad day and beat her once, but it is also possible that I will be invited to play ANGC. The superb ball striking 4 hdcp player is the Yeti of golf forums, and a 290 driving avg is about Jordan Spieth length.

 

The weakness in your statement is that the LPGA driving average is about 240 and they often play from ~ 6300 yards and that not only wouldn't the 50 extra yards off the tee mean anything but neither would the 2 or 3 less clubs the guy would need going into the greens make a difference either.

 

So she's moving back about 40 yards per hole and yet will shoot the same gross score.

other than your posted average drive for the pro and their average course yardage you're spot on. :)

Edit, you did say often 6300 not average.

[Argonne69]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

[TheGeekGolfer]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

[Argonne69]

Mo Martin, one of the shortest hitters out there averaging 237 yards in 2016, still managed to average 70.8 for the season (#22) playing in tournament conditions. Heck, her high for the season was one round of 77 in windy conditions. That probably puts her at around a +5 to +7 HC. The 4 HC averages 80. 'Just because a player is short hitting doesn't mean they are going to struggle. She'd clean the 4 HC's clock.

[Forged4ever]

Oh Dear God, nooooooooo.....

 

WTF?!?!????

 

Shilg's summed it up beautifully and I believe that's like the 3rd-4th time he's tried to enlighten a few guys who obviously ain't buyin what the Boys are cookin, lol

 

I'm not as effed up as I thought that I was?

 

Have a Great weekend Gents?

 

All the Best,

RP

[flog2]

a 4 capper couldnt but a 2 capper would wipe the floor with 87% of 'em. Fact!

 

 

I read that on a document I wrote

[SurfDuffer]

Mo Martin, one of the shortest hitters out there averaging 237 yards in 2016, still managed to average 70.8 for the season (#22) playing in tournament conditions. Heck, her high for the season was one round of 77 in windy conditions. That probably puts her at around a +5 to +7 HC. The 4 HC averages 80. 'Just because a player is short hitting doesn't mean they are going to struggle. She'd clean the 4 HC's clock.

 

The longest hitting LPGA player I've played with was Nicole Hage. At the time she was ranked near the top in driving distance on tour. She was hitting it a legit 285 on some tees. We took 3rd in that pro-am with myself and a 2 handicap in the group. It was pretty cool having three bombed balls off of each tee to choose from. Even still I don't think she hit any past myself or the 2 handicap in the group. It was a matter of choosing who had the best angle. On the flip side I've played with a couple who's drivers were shorter than I am with a 3-iron off the tee.

 

One interesting player I played with was Katie Futcher. She did not have a high swing speed but she had the best fit driver I've ever seen. She always hit the shiny side of the fairway to maximize roll out and I swear her drives would roll out like they had top spin on them. On some holes I'd be hitting a 6-iron where she'd be hitting a fairway wood. She'd get that fairway wood inside 20 feet though. She got to 47th in the world that year and made the cut in 18 of 23 starts for the year.

 

The best player I've played with so far is Moriya Jutanugarn the sister of the current #2 in the world. Current 68 in the rankings but I think she will improve. She was also one of the short hitters I've played with. Her wedge game and putting were both just ridiculous.

[Shilgy]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

Would 31 yards be a big difference? DJ to Webb Simpson at #151.

[TheGeekGolfer]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

Would 31 yards be a big difference? DJ to Webb Simpson at #151.

On the men's tour, that's not as big of a difference. Webb averages 285 yds, DJ 316. So, on a 500 yd par 4 (long par 4), Webb might have 215 yds left (probably a 4 iron), DJ has 174 yds (probably a 7 or 8 iron). I think as you go down in average distance, 41 yds difference is actually more than just 10 yds, compared to a 31 yd difference. This is due to swing speeds and how distances will drop more based on slower swing speeds. What I mean by that is, a longer hitter might have 7 or 8 yd gaps while a shorter hitter with slower swing speed might have gaps more like 11-15 yds between clubs. The person with the higher swing speed has more precise distances to work with on full shots vs the slower golf swing. So, while 31 yds difference vs 41 yds difference only sounds like 10 yds, it's a bigger difference in terms of what club is used.

[b.helts]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

Would 31 yards be a big difference? DJ to Webb Simpson at #151.

On the men's tour, that's not as big of a difference. Webb averages 285 yds, DJ 316. So, on a 500 yd par 4 (long par 4), Webb might have 215 yds left (probably a 4 iron), DJ has 174 yds (probably a 7 or 8 iron). I think as you go down in average distance, 41 yds difference is actually more than just 10 yds, compared to a 31 yd difference. This is due to swing speeds and how distances will drop more based on slower swing speeds. What I mean by that is, a longer hitter might have 7 or 8 yd gaps while a shorter hitter with slower swing speed might have gaps more like 11-15 yds between clubs. The person with the higher swing speed has more precise distances to work with on full shots vs the slower golf swing. So, while 31 yds difference vs 41 yds difference only sounds like 10 yds, it's a bigger difference in terms of what club is used.

 

You messed up your math.

[TheGeekGolfer]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

Would 31 yards be a big difference? DJ to Webb Simpson at #151.

On the men's tour, that's not as big of a difference. Webb averages 285 yds, DJ 316. So, on a 500 yd par 4 (long par 4), Webb might have 215 yds left (probably a 4 iron), DJ has 174 yds (probably a 7 or 8 iron). I think as you go down in average distance, 41 yds difference is actually more than just 10 yds, compared to a 31 yd difference. This is due to swing speeds and how distances will drop more based on slower swing speeds. What I mean by that is, a longer hitter might have 7 or 8 yd gaps while a shorter hitter with slower swing speed might have gaps more like 11-15 yds between clubs. The person with the higher swing speed has more precise distances to work with on full shots vs the slower golf swing. So, while 31 yds difference vs 41 yds difference only sounds like 10 yds, it's a bigger difference in terms of what club is used.

 

You messed up your math.

Yep, DJ has 184 left for his second shot, not 174. Probably still a 7 iron for him. Did I made any other math errors?

[b.helts]

Yep, DJ has 184 left for his second shot, not 174. Probably still a 7 iron for him. Did I made any other math errors?

 

Nope. But if 184 is a 7 for DJ I doubt Webb is hitting 4 from 215. Not that it matters much since you're just throwing gum at the wall and hoping it'll stick.

[nsxguy]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

Would 31 yards be a big difference? DJ to Webb Simpson at #151.

 

Ahhhh, so the median distance (LPGA) is 245.

 

Closer to 240 than 253 although I can't be bothered to come up with the average. I'll let you do that. :taunt:

[skraly]

Mo Martin, one of the shortest hitters out there averaging 237 yards in 2016, still managed to average 70.8 for the season (#22) playing in tournament conditions. Heck, her high for the season was one round of 77 in windy conditions. That probably puts her at around a +5 to +7 HC. The 4 HC averages 80. 'Just because a player is short hitting doesn't mean they are going to struggle. She'd clean the 4 HC's clock.

 

The longest hitting LPGA player I've played with was Nicole Hage. At the time she was ranked near the top in driving distance on tour. She was hitting it a legit 285 on some tees. We took 3rd in that pro-am with myself and a 2 handicap in the group. It was pretty cool having three bombed balls off of each tee to choose from. Even still I don't think she hit any past myself or the 2 handicap in the group. It was a matter of choosing who had the best angle. On the flip side I've played with a couple who's drivers were shorter than I am with a 3-iron off the tee.

 

One interesting player I played with was Katie Futcher. She did not have a high swing speed but she had the best fit driver I've ever seen. She always hit the shiny side of the fairway to maximize roll out and I swear her drives would roll out like they had top spin on them. On some holes I'd be hitting a 6-iron where she'd be hitting a fairway wood. She'd get that fairway wood inside 20 feet though. She got to 47th in the world that year and made the cut in 18 of 23 starts for the year.

 

The best player I've played with so far is Moriya Jutanugarn the sister of the current #2 in the world. Current 68 in the rankings but I think she will improve. She was also one of the short hitters I've played with. Her wedge game and putting were both just ridiculous.

A few years ago I had to opportunity to watch several matches in the USGA Womens Publinx championship. My handicap floats in the 2-4 range. The gals I watched, sadly enough, were about as accurate with a 7 wood as I am with a 9 iron. Most people put way too much into how far someone drives the ball. Yes, on the pro tours distance can make a big difference. But 4 handicappers are that for a reason. Even if you out drive the LPGA player by 50 yds a hole, you're still a 4 handicapper. Either you can't find a few of your drives, you can't hit an iron on a consistent basis, your short game sucks or your putting sucks. Maybe all of the above. Any women making her living on the LPGA tour may have some parts or her game that are weaker than others but they won't have any true weaknesses. They can't have or they wouldn't make it on the tour. I'm not sure I would give a 4 hcp much of a chance against a Symetra tour player let alone an LPGA player.

[SurfDuffer]

Mo Martin, one of the shortest hitters out there averaging 237 yards in 2016, still managed to average 70.8 for the season (#22) playing in tournament conditions. Heck, her high for the season was one round of 77 in windy conditions. That probably puts her at around a +5 to +7 HC. The 4 HC averages 80. 'Just because a player is short hitting doesn't mean they are going to struggle. She'd clean the 4 HC's clock.

 

The longest hitting LPGA player I've played with was Nicole Hage. At the time she was ranked near the top in driving distance on tour. She was hitting it a legit 285 on some tees. We took 3rd in that pro-am with myself and a 2 handicap in the group. It was pretty cool having three bombed balls off of each tee to choose from. Even still I don't think she hit any past myself or the 2 handicap in the group. It was a matter of choosing who had the best angle. On the flip side I've played with a couple who's drivers were shorter than I am with a 3-iron off the tee.

 

One interesting player I played with was Katie Futcher. She did not have a high swing speed but she had the best fit driver I've ever seen. She always hit the shiny side of the fairway to maximize roll out and I swear her drives would roll out like they had top spin on them. On some holes I'd be hitting a 6-iron where she'd be hitting a fairway wood. She'd get that fairway wood inside 20 feet though. She got to 47th in the world that year and made the cut in 18 of 23 starts for the year.

 

The best player I've played with so far is Moriya Jutanugarn the sister of the current #2 in the world. Current 68 in the rankings but I think she will improve. She was also one of the short hitters I've played with. Her wedge game and putting were both just ridiculous.

A few years ago I had to opportunity to watch several matches in the USGA Womens Publinx championship. My handicap floats in the 2-4 range. The gals I watched, sadly enough, were about as accurate with a 7 wood as I am with a 9 iron. Most people put way too much into how far someone drives the ball. Yes, on the pro tours distance can make a big difference. But 4 handicappers are that for a reason. Even if you out drive the LPGA player by 50 yds a hole, you're still a 4 handicapper. Either you can't find a few of your drives, you can't hit an iron on a consistent basis, your short game sucks or your putting sucks. Maybe all of the above. Any women making her living on the LPGA tour may have some parts or her game that are weaker than others but they won't have any true weaknesses. They can't have or they wouldn't make it on the tour. I'm not sure I would give a 4 hcp much of a chance against a Symetra tour player let alone an LPGA player.

 

True. I'm where I'm at because I never really developed good short game and putting skills. My full swing is stellar though. Just don't ask me to take something off of it or hit a delicate pitch.

[Golfbeat]

Mo Martin, one of the shortest hitters out there averaging 237 yards in 2016, still managed to average 70.8 for the season (#22) playing in tournament conditions. Heck, her high for the season was one round of 77 in windy conditions. That probably puts her at around a +5 to +7 HC. The 4 HC averages 80. 'Just because a player is short hitting doesn't mean they are going to struggle. She'd clean the 4 HC's clock.

 

The longest hitting LPGA player I've played with was Nicole Hage. At the time she was ranked near the top in driving distance on tour. She was hitting it a legit 285 on some tees. We took 3rd in that pro-am with myself and a 2 handicap in the group. It was pretty cool having three bombed balls off of each tee to choose from. Even still I don't think she hit any past myself or the 2 handicap in the group. It was a matter of choosing who had the best angle. On the flip side I've played with a couple who's drivers were shorter than I am with a 3-iron off the tee.

 

One interesting player I played with was Katie Futcher. She did not have a high swing speed but she had the best fit driver I've ever seen. She always hit the shiny side of the fairway to maximize roll out and I swear her drives would roll out like they had top spin on them. On some holes I'd be hitting a 6-iron where she'd be hitting a fairway wood. She'd get that fairway wood inside 20 feet though. She got to 47th in the world that year and made the cut in 18 of 23 starts for the year.

 

The best player I've played with so far is Moriya Jutanugarn the sister of the current #2 in the world. Current 68 in the rankings but I think she will improve. She was also one of the short hitters I've played with. Her wedge game and putting were both just ridiculous.

A few years ago I had to opportunity to watch several matches in the USGA Womens Publinx championship. My handicap floats in the 2-4 range. The gals I watched, sadly enough, were about as accurate with a 7 wood as I am with a 9 iron. Most people put way too much into how far someone drives the ball. Yes, on the pro tours distance can make a big difference. But 4 handicappers are that for a reason. Even if you out drive the LPGA player by 50 yds a hole, you're still a 4 handicapper. Either you can't find a few of your drives, you can't hit an iron on a consistent basis, your short game sucks or your putting sucks. Maybe all of the above. Any women making her living on the LPGA tour may have some parts or her game that are weaker than others but they won't have any true weaknesses. They can't have or they wouldn't make it on the tour. I'm not sure I would give a 4 hcp much of a chance against a Symetra tour player let alone an LPGA player.

 

True. I'm where I'm at because I never really developed good short game and putting skills. My full swing is stellar though. Just don't ask me to take something off of it or hit a delicate pitch.

 

With a stellar full swing you would never have to hit a delicate pitch. You would hit every green in regulation.

[dhc1]

The chances of a 4 beating an LPGA tour player is roughly equivalent to that of an LPGA tour player beating a PGA tour player in a match head-to-head. Could it happen every blue moon? Yes, but c'mon, a 4 could beat a PGA tour player once in a while too.

[SurfDuffer]

Mo Martin, one of the shortest hitters out there averaging 237 yards in 2016, still managed to average 70.8 for the season (#22) playing in tournament conditions. Heck, her high for the season was one round of 77 in windy conditions. That probably puts her at around a +5 to +7 HC. The 4 HC averages 80. 'Just because a player is short hitting doesn't mean they are going to struggle. She'd clean the 4 HC's clock.

 

The longest hitting LPGA player I've played with was Nicole Hage. At the time she was ranked near the top in driving distance on tour. She was hitting it a legit 285 on some tees. We took 3rd in that pro-am with myself and a 2 handicap in the group. It was pretty cool having three bombed balls off of each tee to choose from. Even still I don't think she hit any past myself or the 2 handicap in the group. It was a matter of choosing who had the best angle. On the flip side I've played with a couple who's drivers were shorter than I am with a 3-iron off the tee.

 

One interesting player I played with was Katie Futcher. She did not have a high swing speed but she had the best fit driver I've ever seen. She always hit the shiny side of the fairway to maximize roll out and I swear her drives would roll out like they had top spin on them. On some holes I'd be hitting a 6-iron where she'd be hitting a fairway wood. She'd get that fairway wood inside 20 feet though. She got to 47th in the world that year and made the cut in 18 of 23 starts for the year.

 

The best player I've played with so far is Moriya Jutanugarn the sister of the current #2 in the world. Current 68 in the rankings but I think she will improve. She was also one of the short hitters I've played with. Her wedge game and putting were both just ridiculous.

A few years ago I had to opportunity to watch several matches in the USGA Womens Publinx championship. My handicap floats in the 2-4 range. The gals I watched, sadly enough, were about as accurate with a 7 wood as I am with a 9 iron. Most people put way too much into how far someone drives the ball. Yes, on the pro tours distance can make a big difference. But 4 handicappers are that for a reason. Even if you out drive the LPGA player by 50 yds a hole, you're still a 4 handicapper. Either you can't find a few of your drives, you can't hit an iron on a consistent basis, your short game sucks or your putting sucks. Maybe all of the above. Any women making her living on the LPGA tour may have some parts or her game that are weaker than others but they won't have any true weaknesses. They can't have or they wouldn't make it on the tour. I'm not sure I would give a 4 hcp much of a chance against a Symetra tour player let alone an LPGA player.

 

True. I'm where I'm at because I never really developed good short game and putting skills. My full swing is stellar though. Just don't ask me to take something off of it or hit a delicate pitch.

 

With a stellar full swing you would never have to hit a delicate pitch. You would hit every green in regulation.

 

Name one person who hits every green in regulation.

[TheGeekGolfer]

 

 

The chances of a 4 beating an LPGA tour player is roughly equivalent to that of an LPGA tour player beating a PGA tour player in a match head-to-head. Could it happen every blue moon? Yes, but c'mon, a 4 could beat a PGA tour player once in a while too.

 

So, if that's true, the OP's question has been answered in the affirmative. In 2003, Annika Sorenstam played in the Colonial on the PGA tour and was paired with Dean Wilson and Aaron Barber. Annika shot 71, 74. Aaron Barber shot 72, 74 and Dean Wilson shot 71, 67. She beat or tied one of the players in her group each day. She missed the cut after some missed putts on the back nine on Friday. She still finished higher than 11 other men on that tournament.

[flog2]

The median LPGA driving distance in 2016 was 253 yards. The average isn't too far off from there.

 

I played Aviara GC last month, the site of the LPGA Kia Classic. They had a "Kia Classic Combo" scorecard available. The course sets up at 6476 yards at sea level. The opening stretch of holes plays into the prevailing winds coming off the ocean.

I'll give you the LPGA athletes are hitting it a fair bit further now than even 5-6 years ago. It's hard to say 'how' the LPGA measures driving distance, but even my own eyes do tell me the top ladies are hitting it further. That being said, there is a fair drop off from the top to the bottom and that will definitely lead to a difference in scores. I don't care how 'good they are with all clubs', you are going to be farther off target with a hybrid vs an 8iron, no matter how well you strike it. Even if you strike it the 'same', the angle that you're off target means if you miss by 15ft with an 8i, you very well could miss the green if you are 40 yards back and hit the 'same' shot with a hybrid.

 

Here are the average driving distances according to the LPGA website. I won't post the full list here, click to get to it (you can click the year and hit GO to see different years). 2017 is NOT a good list, given the low number of tournaments. As you can see, the top driving distance is 281, quite good. However, the #150 on the LPGA listed chart is 240 yds. That's a fairly big difference. That lower ranked player is not only going to be further back off the tee, she's also going to be hitting a longer club even if she was at the same distance, given her slower swing speed on the driver, translated to a slower swing speed on other clubs as well.

Would 31 yards be a big difference? DJ to Webb Simpson at #151.

On the men's tour, that's not as big of a difference. Webb averages 285 yds, DJ 316. So, on a 500 yd par 4 (long par 4), Webb might have 215 yds left (probably a 4 iron), DJ has 174 yds (probably a 7 or 8 iron). I think as you go down in average distance, 41 yds difference is actually more than just 10 yds, compared to a 31 yd difference. This is due to swing speeds and how distances will drop more based on slower swing speeds. What I mean by that is, a longer hitter might have 7 or 8 yd gaps while a shorter hitter with slower swing speed might have gaps more like 11-15 yds between clubs. The person with the higher swing speed has more precise distances to work with on full shots vs the slower golf swing. So, while 31 yds difference vs 41 yds difference only sounds like 10 yds, it's a bigger difference in terms of what club is used.

 

You messed up your math(s)

 

multiple digits are maths in the scientific world, and the rest of civilisation outside of the good ole U S of A

[TheGeekGolfer]

 

 

Yep, DJ has 184 left for his second shot, not 174. Probably still a 7 iron for him. Did I made any other math errors?

 

Nope. But if 184 is a 7 for DJ I doubt Webb is hitting 4 from 215. Not that it matters much since you're just throwing gum at the wall and hoping it'll stick.

 

And a lot of my gum sticks. ;-)

 

The OP asked CAN, despite how others are trying to interpret things. Yes, Webb would probably hit his 23.5* hybrid, since according to his WITB on Titleist's website, he plays 5-PW for irons. He would probably carry that about 200, given his driving distance and charts I've seen. (http://www.golfwrx.com/62549/how-far-should-you-hit-your-golf-clubs/). Given the hardness of most PGA tour greens and the 4i or hybrid trajectory, a bit of roll would be expected. Sounds right to me.

 

The main problem here is many are asking the question of 'would they' or interpreting the question as 'always' or 'probable'. That's not the question as I see it. The question is CAN, or 'could they'. All I've attempted to do is say, YES they (the 4 hdcp) can. Just like some say, anything is possible.

 

Then, to add some substance, I added the parameters I think need to be in play for that somewhat unlikely event to happen.

 

Longer hitting 4 hdcp, used to be closer to scratch

Shorter hitting, lower ranked LPGA

 

Despite how 'rare' some people think this would be (that's another discussion). With that matchup, I might put some money on it, since I think it would be a close match that could be a 1-3 stroke difference, either way.

 

Would I randomly bet on ANY 4 hdcp beating ANY LPGA player, NO. I've never said that. But then again, most people don't randomly bet on any sporting event, without looking at the matchup.

[Golfbeat]

True. I'm where I'm at because I never really developed good short game and putting skills. My full swing is stellar though. Just don't ask me to take something off of it or hit a delicate pitch.

 

 

With a stellar full swing you would never have to hit a delicate pitch. You would hit every green in regulation.

 

 

Name one person who hits every green in regulation.

 

 

I do not know anybody with a stellar full swing.

[skraly]

Serena Williams is apparently the greatest tennis player of all time, and she was destroyed by some guy who was ranked 500th in the world or something.

 

I'm actually not aware of many matches between LPGA players and high-ranked male amateurs.

Yes, and the 500th ranked male pro would probably win most of the time against an LPGA player. But a 4 hcp. is more like the 50,000th ranked player in the world. So I don't think your comparison holds much weight.

[Shilgy]

How is this for a flip flop way of looking at this? If a decent FEMALE amateur kept her handicap from the man's ratings and was a 4 capper would anyone think she could beat the lpga player? Same scoring ability as the op question.

[PowderedToastMan]

Ben Hogan was a 4 handicap in 1953.

[CallawayLefty]

Ben Hogan was a 4 handicap in 1953.

 

Come on now you're just being silly. Hogan putted and chipped better than your average 4 handicap. Ball striking was a very close call though. Most 4 handicaps just don't have the time to develop strong short games. So they typically shoot under par only about 5 rounds out of 20 and just have a lot of blow up rounds where their short game really fails them and despite hitting all their drives 290 they still shoot enough over par to make their handicaps equal out to 4. Unless you move them inside 6500 yards when they average better than par. I think the key is when you put them up a box their ballstriking just becomes so good that they don't have to putt much. Lots of holed out wedges and irons because they're hitting one club less. Plus you know LPGA courses are basically set up like mini golf.

[KCCO]

Not a chance...4? No way. They play everyday. There are 4's at my course everywhere, means prob play to 6 considering that's their 10 best. They would get crushed.

[oikos1]

True. I'm where I'm at because I never really developed good short game and putting skills. My full swing is stellar though. Just don't ask me to take something off of it or hit a delicate pitch.

 

 

With a stellar full swing you would never have to hit a delicate pitch. You would hit every green in regulation.

 

 

Name one person who hits every green in regulation.

 

 

I do not know anybody with a stellar full swing.

 

Apparently now you do...

[Hotdocta]

I would bet everything I have on the LPGA player. The 4 would have no chance.