Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[TheGeekGolfer]

 

 

Lets get "real world"

 

I am a 4 and I have played with Christie Kerr, Michelle Wie and few lesser knowns when I have been a 3-6. If I was playing them for money I would want strokes or would lose most of the time, but not all of the time.

 

I was longer than Kerr by a club or two, Wie was closer to me, but both were way more accurate than I am and better games around the green. I **might** argue that I was better putter than Wie though.

 

I am a 'soft 4' though as my top 10 score can be pretty ugly, but when I get hot I can shoot par.

 

so, you're saying you would have a decent shot. Yes, if you were playing for money you would want strokes. Anyone would normally take strokes. But either way, you would win a few. It sounds as if you are the exact type of '4 hdcp' player I've been talking about in previous posts.

[PowderedToastMan]

Lets get "real world"

 

I am a 4 and I have played with Christie Kerr, Michelle Wie and few lesser knowns when I have been a 3-6. If I was playing them for money I would want strokes or would lose most of the time, but not all of the time.

 

I was longer than Kerr by a club or two, Wie was closer to me, but both were way more accurate than I am and better games around the green. I **might** argue that I was better putter than Wie though.

 

I am a 'soft 4' though as my top 10 score can be pretty ugly, but when I get hot I can shoot par.

 

so, you're saying you would have a decent shot. Yes, if you were playing for money you would want strokes. Anyone would normally take strokes. But either way, you would win a few. It sounds as if you are the exact type of '4 hdcp' player I've been talking about in previous posts.

Geek, you're a big believer in playing the lottery, aren't you?

[Shilgy]

Lets get "real world"

 

I am a 4 and I have played with Christie Kerr, Michelle Wie and few lesser knowns when I have been a 3-6. If I was playing them for money I would want strokes or would lose most of the time, but not all of the time.

 

I was longer than Kerr by a club or two, Wie was closer to me, but both were way more accurate than I am and better games around the green. I **might** argue that I was better putter than Wie though.

 

I am a 'soft 4' though as my top 10 score can be pretty ugly, but when I get hot I can shoot par.

 

so, you're saying you would have a decent shot. Yes, if you were playing for money you would want strokes. Anyone would normally take strokes. But either way, you would win a few. It sounds as if you are the exact type of '4 hdcp' player I've been talking about in previous posts.

Geek, you're a big believer in playing the lottery, aren't you?

Lol, when he gets hot he can shoot par. Those ladies he mentioned average under par as do all of the top 120 or so. Wie struggled for a couple years and was still better than the mythical wrx 4.

2bgood you sound like me. I've been as low as​ a +1 but now over 60 and fluctuate from 3-6. But I have no illusions that I can beat any of the top 150 with enough regularity to say that I can do it.

[Bad9]

If the 4 hc needs several ifs(if he has a good day, if the LPGAer has a bad day, if it's the 4hc home course, if, if,if) then I would argue that no the 4hc cannot beat the LPGAer.

[CallawayLefty]

Lets get "real world"

 

I am a 4 and I have played with Christie Kerr, Michelle Wie and few lesser knowns when I have been a 3-6. If I was playing them for money I would want strokes or would lose most of the time, but not all of the time.

 

I was longer than Kerr by a club or two, Wie was closer to me, but both were way more accurate than I am and better games around the green. I **might** argue that I was better putter than Wie though.

 

I am a 'soft 4' though as my top 10 score can be pretty ugly, but when I get hot I can shoot par.

 

so, you're saying you would have a decent shot. Yes, if you were playing for money you would want strokes. Anyone would normally take strokes. But either way, you would win a few. It sounds as if you are the exact type of '4 hdcp' player I've been talking about in previous posts.

Geek, you're a big believer in playing the lottery, aren't you?

 

He's the 1953 Ben Hogan of Powerball.

[isaacbm]

This thread should have been titled: "is a four handicap male a comparable player to a bottom ranked LPGA tour pro. "

That's really the only way you can have a discussion/debate about it. Putting the word "can" in the title just makes for a ridiculous argument about what happens if this or what happens if that.

 

Still comes down to basically trying to handicap a match between two players. How much would you be willing to bet on this hypothetical match ?

 

Anyone taking the 4handicap doesn't understand math and wants to throw money away. Now if the question was: "could tournament only scratch male compete against the hundredth ranked player on the LPGA tour" then you can actually have A realistic debate. But a thread about a four handicap catching lightning in a bottle on the day when the LPGA tour pro rolled her ankle and I win the lottery in the morning and got hit by lightning in the afternoon really is pretty silly.

 

Oh sorry, I think I mentioned this 45 pages ago. I'll go away again

[Shilgy]

This thread should have been titled: "is a four handicap male a comparable player to a bottom ranked LPGA tour pro. "

That's really the only way you can have a discussion/debate about it. Putting the word "can" in the title just makes for a ridiculous argument about what happens if this or what happens if that.

 

Still comes down to basically trying to handicap a match between two players. How much would you be willing to bet on this hypothetical match ?

 

Anyone taking the 4handicap doesn't understand math and wants to throw money away. Now if the question was: "could tournament only scratch male compete against the hundredth ranked player on the LPGA tour" then you can actually have A realistic debate. But a thread about a four handicap catching lightning in a bottle on the day when the LPGA tour pro rolled her ankle and I win the lottery in the morning and got hit by lightning in the afternoon really is pretty silly.

 

Oh sorry, I think I mentioned this 45 pages ago. I'll go away again

Yes, most threads on wrx get silly if given time. Some it just happens sooner rather than later. I believe this one happened sooner and just keeps on rolling.

[TheGeekGolfer]

This thread should have been titled: "is a four handicap male a comparable player to a bottom ranked LPGA tour pro. "

That's really the only way you can have a discussion/debate about it. Putting the word "can" in the title just makes for a ridiculous argument about what happens if this or what happens if that.

 

Still comes down to basically trying to handicap a match between two players. How much would you be willing to bet on this hypothetical match ?

 

Anyone taking the 4handicap doesn't understand math and wants to throw money away. Now if the question was: "could tournament only scratch male compete against the hundredth ranked player on the LPGA tour" then you can actually have A realistic debate. But a thread about a four handicap catching lightning in a bottle on the day when the LPGA tour pro rolled her ankle and I win the lottery in the morning and got hit by lightning in the afternoon really is pretty silly.

 

Oh sorry, I think I mentioned this 45 pages ago. I'll go away again

But yet, you keep coming back.

[isaacbm]

This thread should have been titled: "is a four handicap male a comparable player to a bottom ranked LPGA tour pro. "

That's really the only way you can have a discussion/debate about it. Putting the word "can" in the title just makes for a ridiculous argument about what happens if this or what happens if that.

 

Still comes down to basically trying to handicap a match between two players. How much would you be willing to bet on this hypothetical match ?

 

Anyone taking the 4handicap doesn't understand math and wants to throw money away. Now if the question was: "could tournament only scratch male compete against the hundredth ranked player on the LPGA tour" then you can actually have A realistic debate. But a thread about a four handicap catching lightning in a bottle on the day when the LPGA tour pro rolled her ankle and I win the lottery in the morning and got hit by lightning in the afternoon really is pretty silly.

 

Oh sorry, I think I mentioned this 45 pages ago. I'll go away again

But yet, you keep coming back.

At no point in any post in this thread have I said that I'm above idiocy! LOL!

[TheGeekGolfer]

 

Geek, you're a big believer in playing the lottery, aren't you?

 

He's the 1953 Ben Hogan of Powerball.

:rolleyes: :clapping:

[Shilgy]

 

Geek, you're a big believer in playing the lottery, aren't you?

 

He's the 1953 Ben Hogan of Powerball.

:rolleyes: :clapping:

Don't get too excited. I think he meant you're attempting to come back from a crash! :)

[2bGood]

Lets get "real world"

 

I am a 4 and I have played with Christie Kerr, Michelle Wie and few lesser knowns when I have been a 3-6. If I was playing them for money I would want strokes or would lose most of the time, but not all of the time.

 

I was longer than Kerr by a club or two, Wie was closer to me, but both were way more accurate than I am and better games around the green. I **might** argue that I was better putter than Wie though.

 

I am a 'soft 4' though as my top 10 score can be pretty ugly, but when I get hot I can shoot par.

 

so, you're saying you would have a decent shot. Yes, if you were playing for money you would want strokes. Anyone would normally take strokes. But either way, you would win a few. It sounds as if you are the exact type of '4 hdcp' player I've been talking about in previous posts.

Geek, you're a big believer in playing the lottery, aren't you?

Lol, when he gets hot he can shoot par. Those ladies he mentioned average under par as do all of the top 120 or so. Wie struggled for a couple years and was still better than the mythical wrx 4.

2bgood you sound like me. I've been as low as​ a +1 but now over 60 and fluctuate from 3-6. But I have no illusions that I can beat any of the top 150 with enough regularity to say that I can do it.

 

Yes we sound about the same except I am a few years younger.

 

To be clear, when I say I could beat the lpga players I was more referring to the lesser knowns, but if I played with them every Saturday for a year I think I could win match play once or twice maybe.

 

If I could send out one of the guys I play with that is a +, I like his odds.

[Forged4ever]

This thread should have been titled: "is a four handicap male a comparable player to a bottom ranked LPGA tour pro. "

That's really the only way you can have a discussion/debate about it. Putting the word "can" in the title just makes for a ridiculous argument about what happens if this or what happens if that.

 

Still comes down to basically trying to handicap a match between two players. How much would you be willing to bet on this hypothetical match ?

 

Anyone taking the 4handicap doesn't understand math and wants to throw money away. Now if the question was: "could tournament only scratch male compete against the hundredth ranked player on the LPGA tour" then you can actually have A realistic debate. But a thread about a four handicap catching lightning in a bottle on the day when the LPGA tour pro rolled her ankle and I win the lottery in the morning and got hit by lightning in the afternoon really is pretty silly.

 

Oh sorry, I think I mentioned this 45 pages ago. I'll go away again

But yet, you keep coming back.

At no point in any post in this thread have I said that I'm above idiocy! LOL!

I epitomize idiocy and here I am, for like the 6/7th time, lmao

 

The only thing that I keep thinking of is that a 4~ can't even Play in the Championship flight of a Player's Club's Championship nor can one Play in any of our swats/money games(nor would they want to cuz ya plant the tee, Play your ball down and in with no strokes taken and none given, and the highest cap that you'd be competing against would be a scratch(.04~) former Tour Pro & Walker Cupper, lol).

 

This is an incredible thread!!

 

Thank you for allowing me to drop in, basically contribute nothing of value and amuse myself?

 

You Guys are the Best?

 

Always,

Richard

[northgolf]

Every time I see the title of this 2009 thread, I think: "of course he can, but with what implement and will he go to jail?".

[SurfDuffer]

am saying the set up on the LPGA tour is more difficult that the average 4 faces. Greens are faster and the pin positions are generally much more difficult on a whole than the set up at the local course than is trying to speed up play.

 

 

 

Not true at all based on what I've seen when the LPGA comes to town every year. Just typical set up for the course. Tees a mix of men's white and blues. Pin positions pretty typical for the course. Overall the local course they play on is one of the easier courses of the 8 courses within a small radius. The most challenging things on that course are the wind and bugs.

[downsandups]

No, just no.

[Shilgy]

am saying the set up on the LPGA tour is more difficult that the average 4 faces. Greens are faster and the pin positions are generally much more difficult on a whole than the set up at the local course than is trying to speed up play.

 

 

 

Not true at all based on what I've seen when the LPGA comes to town every year. Just typical set up for the course. Tees a mix of men's white and blues. Pin positions pretty typical for the course. Overall the local course they play on is one of the easier courses of the 8 courses within a small radius. The most challenging things on that course are the wind and bugs.

Imo that would be an oddity on the lpga.

[dlygrisse]

So where is the -4 male going to make up the strokes playing the +5 lady? That's 9 strokes and the pressure to go along with it. Where does this mythical -4 gain the advantage? Maybe outdriving the said female on occasion when he pures it? And what advantage is this really?

 

Great thread.

[Shilgy]

So where is the -4 male going to make up the strokes playing the +5 lady? That's 9 strokes and the pressure to go along with it. Where does this mythical -4 gain the advantage? Maybe outdriving the said female on occasion when he pures it? And what advantage is this really?

 

Great thread.

Not the top ladies, number 140 or so. So in the neighborhood of +1 to +2 by most accounts.

 

Edit I know, I know. Still once in a blue moon .

[2bGood]

So where is the -4 male going to make up the strokes playing the +5 lady? That's 9 strokes and the pressure to go along with it. Where does this mythical -4 gain the advantage? Maybe outdriving the said female on occasion when he pures it? And what advantage is this really?

 

Great thread.

So where is the -4 male going to make up the strokes playing the +5 lady? That's 9 strokes and the pressure to go along with it. Where does this mythical -4 gain the advantage? Maybe outdriving the said female on occasion when he pures it? And what advantage is this really?

 

Great thread.

Not the top ladies, number 140 or so. So in the neighborhood of +1 to +2 by most accounts.

 

Edit I know, I know. Still once in a blue moon .

 

Yes but who often do you play a guy a 4 or 5 stokes better than you are? How often do you beat them straight up? If you have play regularly with them I would expect you will win several times in a "blue moon" as blue moon occur eery 2-3 years. :taunt:

[SurfDuffer]

am saying the set up on the LPGA tour is more difficult that the average 4 faces. Greens are faster and the pin positions are generally much more difficult on a whole than the set up at the local course than is trying to speed up play.

 

 

 

Not true at all based on what I've seen when the LPGA comes to town every year. Just typical set up for the course. Tees a mix of men's white and blues. Pin positions pretty typical for the course. Overall the local course they play on is one of the easier courses of the 8 courses within a small radius. The most challenging things on that course are the wind and bugs.

Imo that would be an oddity on the lpga.

 

I doubt it.

[juliette91]

am saying the set up on the LPGA tour is more difficult that the average 4 faces. Greens are faster and the pin positions are generally much more difficult on a whole than the set up at the local course than is trying to speed up play.

 

 

 

Not true at all based on what I've seen when the LPGA comes to town every year. Just typical set up for the course. Tees a mix of men's white and blues. Pin positions pretty typical for the course. Overall the local course they play on is one of the easier courses of the 8 courses within a small radius. The most challenging things on that course are the wind and bugs.

 

And your point is that this particular course set up doesn't strike fear into you or any 4 handicap male? So this means that the 4 is comparable to the LPGA touring pro?

 

What I think it means is kinda the same as it means on the World Men's Tours, that if the set up is easy the scores will be lower. Has nothing to do with the intrinsic different playing abilities of the men 4 and LPGA player. Yes, at some point as many have pointed out, with the right set up and the lightning on its way to the bottle, there could be a real competition between the two. But while this thread will likely never really end so long as golfwrx maintains this forum, it really is over. Still, it was a lot of fun seeing the analysis and some of the fine minds on this discussion board.

[SurfDuffer]

That was a response to a specific statement. A course isn't magically more difficult when the LPGA arrives than it is the rest of the time. Of the courses the LPGA could play on in my area they play on one of the easiest if not the easiest. Galloway National a mile down the road is an absolute beast compared to Seaview.

[DavePelz4]

Lets get "real world"

 

I am a 4 and I have played with Christie Kerr, Michelle Wie and few lesser knowns when I have been a 3-6. If I was playing them for money I would want strokes or would lose most of the time, but not all of the time.

 

I was longer than Kerr by a club or two, Wie was closer to me, but both were way more accurate than I am and better games around the green. I **might** argue that I was better putter than Wie though.

 

I am a 'soft 4' though as my top 10 score can be pretty ugly, but when I get hot I can shoot par.

 

Helen Keller is a better putter than Wie over the last few years.

[EKELLY]

A 4 handicap means on a fairly normal course the guy is shooting 75-79 or whatever as his good scores. That's maybe like a fairly benign 6500-6600yd course at the end of the day.

 

LPGA player would crush a 4 handicap

 

A top 100 LPGA player would most likely win our club championship and our course is 6700yds 75/140. The winning score is usually around +5. I think barring unusually poor play they would beat that. Or at least be the heavy favourite every year

 

The LPGA plays at Kingsmill every year, a course not to far from me. A friend of mine who is a scratch golfer (+2) just played in the PGA Asst championship there and shot 78. I think the worst players on the LPGA can do better than that.

A true +2 shooting 78 at kingsmill had a bad day........We used to play it from the same tees the LPGA played after the tournament, and had quite a few scores under par.

BUT, in an actual tournament, MOST 4's will not shoot their handicap.......

[Shilgy]

That was a response to a specific statement. A course isn't magically more difficult when the LPGA arrives than it is the rest of the time. Of the courses the LPGA could play on in my area they play on one of the easiest if not the easiest. Galloway National a mile down the road is an absolute beast compared to Seaview.

If that is at me I was referring to the setup, not the course rating/difficulty. The lpga course will usually be set up with more difficult pins, for example, than the course the 4 earned his handicap at. In addition, when I belonged to Moon Valley when the Phoenix event was held there it was much more difficult than the normal setup. The rough was grown for weeks and then groomed. The greens were double rolled each day and the pins were difficult. And Annika still shot 59. Not the lady pro we are all referring to but the setup was tough. So perhaps the event in your neighborhood is not groomed for the event but that is not the norm imo.

[dap]

That was a response to a specific statement. A course isn't magically more difficult when the LPGA arrives than it is the rest of the time. Of the courses the LPGA could play on in my area they play on one of the easiest if not the easiest. Galloway National a mile down the road is an absolute beast compared to Seaview.

If that is at me I was referring to the setup, not the course rating/difficulty. The lpga course will usually be set up with more difficult pins, for example, than the course the 4 earned his handicap at. In addition, when I belonged to Moon Valley when the Phoenix event was held there it was much more difficult than the normal setup. The rough was grown for weeks and then groomed. The greens were double rolled each day and the pins were difficult. And Annika still shot 59. Not the lady pro we are all referring to but the setup was tough. So perhaps the event in your neighborhood is not groomed for the event but that is not the norm imo.

From what I read LPGA courses are getting easier and shorter perhaps to make the lower ranked players more competitive. There is a huge discrepancy between the top women players and the bottom ranked. Not saying a 4 is as good as a low ranked LPGA player but I think a genuine 4 on a good day will have a small chance especially if he is a long hitter. Maybe once every 20 rounds? Professional players will be stronger mentally so that would be the main advantage. The 4 will not be used to playing under that sort of pressure or situation.

[Bingo1976]

I think, like the could a scratch/plus 2 thread, people are getting confused about how handicaps work.

 

The fact is, that if you are a 4 at a difficult course, the slope and rating will accommodate this, so you probably average 78-80 for your scoring rounds. If you play an easy par 70 short course with wide fairways, then you probably need to average 73-74 to get the same handicap. A big hitter who isn't capitalising on that in his handicap rounds enough to shoot in the par region or lower, will have deficiencies in his short game that won't go away when he plays an LPGA player.

 

I watched a few of the ladies at the HSBC in Singapore. As a 6 handicap, I would say that Minjee (for example) is probably beating me by 5 strokes a side (in my dream). No way that on a normalised average day, a 4 handicap gets within 3-4 stroles of a decent LPGA pro, if they are both playing their A games. Now if she is on her Z game and he catches lightning, then of course your 4HCP can win.....

[SurfDuffer]

That was a response to a specific statement. A course isn't magically more difficult when the LPGA arrives than it is the rest of the time. Of the courses the LPGA could play on in my area they play on one of the easiest if not the easiest. Galloway National a mile down the road is an absolute beast compared to Seaview.

If that is at me I was referring to the setup, not the course rating/difficulty. The lpga course will usually be set up with more difficult pins, for example, than the course the 4 earned his handicap at. In addition, when I belonged to Moon Valley when the Phoenix event was held there it was much more difficult than the normal setup. The rough was grown for weeks and then groomed. The greens were double rolled each day and the pins were difficult. And Annika still shot 59. Not the lady pro we are all referring to but the setup was tough. So perhaps the event in your neighborhood is not groomed for the event but that is not the norm imo.

 

You seem to be assuming that all 4-handicaps play goat track munis that don't have fast greens and tough pin locations.

[Argonne69]

Huh? A four is a four is a four. 'Doesn't matter if they're long or short hitting. Doesn't matter if they play easy courses or hard courses. If the HC system is doing its job, this all evens out. A long hitting 4 HC will obviously have a worse short game than a short hitting four.