NOW THIS !!! IS HOW A CLEVELAND CLASSIC SHOULD LOOK

[Tab373]

Ok thanks for reply that means the shaft length plus grip would have to be about 41" to play 43"that seems very short IMO but if I can find a steel shaft will give it a go

[alessio]

Tiger Woods:

Driving Distance

- 2000 (steel shaft 43.5 inches): 298 yards.
- 2013: 294.5 yards.

[Orlimar1]

The shorter overall length is one of the eye-openers in this thread. Most here feel the shorter length enables us to more likely hit the sweetspot and get a higher "smash factor". The higher smash factor will help recover some of the length lost by using a much shorter driver than with graphite. With the much needed, for most of us, higher percentage of fairways being hit.

[Orlimar1]

[quote name='alessio' timestamp='1373122685' post='7397862']
Tiger Woods:

Driving Distance

- 2000 (steel shaft 43.5 inches): 298 yards.
- 2013: 294.5 yards.
[/quote]


But how often does he hit driver now versus then also?

[PixlPutterman]

[quote name='Orlimar1' timestamp='1373122782' post='7397870']
[quote name='alessio' timestamp='1373122685' post='7397862']
Tiger Woods:

Driving Distance

- 2000 (steel shaft 43.5 inches): 298 yards.
- 2013: 294.5 yards.
[/quote]


But how often does he hit driver now versus then also?
[/quote]

Not the point, every one here acts like its a huge sacrifice in distance to gain accuracy..........simply a lie.

If that were true then everyone should just play a 50 inch shaft and not worry about accuracy.

I find it funny that everyone assumes they are a "45 inch" fit, yet they are short, play their irons a half inch under standard and cut 2 inches off their OTR 35 inch putter...........but they need a 45 inch driver.................what ever

[fluffy265]

[quote name='PixlPutterman ' timestamp='1373147265' post='7399468']
[quote name='Orlimar1' timestamp='1373122782' post='7397870']
[quote name='alessio' timestamp='1373122685' post='7397862']
Tiger Woods:

Driving Distance

- 2000 (steel shaft 43.5 inches): 298 yards.
- 2013: 294.5 yards.
[/quote]


But how often does he hit driver now versus then also?
[/quote]

Not the point, every one here acts like its a huge sacrifice in distance to gain accuracy..........simply a lie.

If that were true then everyone should just play a 50 inch shaft and not worry about accuracy.

I find it funny that everyone assumes they are a "45 inch" fit, yet they are short, play their irons a half inch under standard and cut 2 inches off their OTR 35 inch putter...........but they need a 45 inch driver.................what ever
[/quote]

+1!
As we should know my now optimum shaft lengths are going to vary. I think some here should take a little more time experimenting, my set up took a few attempts before I really saw results.

FWIW My driver swing is now much more consistent since playing with a steel shaft. Having some sense of stability with my equipment has allowed me to return my attention to my actual swing. Being free to work on my swing without worrying about equipment has been a reward itself. My average drives now are every bit as long as they were previously with graphite..... except now they are still in play.

J

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='MrMorganUSC' timestamp='1373034781' post='7392402']
My MP650 should be here on Monday. Wish that was today but the 4th pushed it back a day.

I am thinking that I am going to start out with my X100 untipped and butt cutt it to 43.75 or 43.5 (see what the swingweight comes to), see how that goes. If I feel like it should be tipped, I will pull that shaft and tip the next one (bought 3 x100's) 1.25 and but cutt it to the correct length....see how that goes.

If that goes well, I will tip the first shaft and put it in my MP650 3 wood.

If it fails again (tried this back in Sept. with a 290) I have a Xcaliber 6+ TS that I recently bought that I will put in the driver and put the Epic T90x back in the 3 wood (which I like).

I got this figured out.
[/quote]

The difference between un-tipped and 1.25" is a BUNCH. Perhaps you should go a bit more slowly. Say .75"? Too much tipping will kill the feel in these shafts. Remember, the torque in the 2.7* range!

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='Orlimar1' timestamp='1373122739' post='7397866']
The shorter overall length is one of the eye-openers in this thread. Most here feel the shorter length enables us to more likely hit the sweetspot and get a higher "smash factor". The higher smash factor will help[b] recover some of the length lost by using a much shorter driver than with graphite[/b]. With the much needed, for most of us, higher percentage of fairways being hit.
[/quote]

From what I have seen, this is a complete falacy. I have clocked drivers with shafts from 50 to 125 and the clunhead speed doesn't drop like you think it does. I'm still at 107 with my Cleveland just like I am with my ACP & 65gm graphite. I'm just able to get more swings out of the lighter setup before I start getting to tired to play.

BT

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1373239035' post='7404742']
[quote name='Orlimar1' timestamp='1373122739' post='7397866']
The shorter overall length is one of the eye-openers in this thread. Most here feel the shorter length enables us to more likely hit the sweetspot and get a higher "smash factor". The higher smash factor will help[b] recover some of the length lost by using a much shorter driver than with graphite[/b]. With the much needed, for most of us, higher percentage of fairways being hit.
[/quote]

From what I have seen, this is a complete falacy. I have clocked drivers with shafts from 50 to 125 and the clunhead speed doesn't drop like you think it does. I'm still at 107 with my Cleveland just like I am with my ACP & 65gm graphite. I'm just able to get more swings out of the lighter setup before I start getting to tired to play.

BT
[/quote]

At the risk of repeating myself...

I went through a fitting session with a reputable clubmaker last fall. During said fitting, I swung my 44", 90g shafted driver at 108mph, and my 43", Precision steel shafted driver at 110-111mph.

Go figure.

[PixlPutterman]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1373239770' post='7404786']
[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1373239035' post='7404742']
[quote name='Orlimar1' timestamp='1373122739' post='7397866']
The shorter overall length is one of the eye-openers in this thread. Most here feel the shorter length enables us to more likely hit the sweetspot and get a higher "smash factor". The higher smash factor will help[b] recover some of the length lost by using a much shorter driver than with graphite[/b]. With the much needed, for most of us, higher percentage of fairways being hit.
[/quote]

From what I have seen, this is a complete falacy. I have clocked drivers with shafts from 50 to 125 and the clunhead speed doesn't drop like you think it does. I'm still at 107 with my Cleveland just like I am with my ACP & 65gm graphite. I'm just able to get more swings out of the lighter setup before I start getting to tired to play.

BT
[/quote]

At the risk of repeating myself...

I went through a fitting session with a reputable clubmaker last fall. During said fitting, I swung my 44", 90g shafted driver at 108mph, and my 43", Precision steel shafted driver at 110-111mph.

Go figure.
[/quote]

Not much to go figure, your driver at 43 inches puts your swing path at a more perpendicular path to your spine than it does at 44. A golfers swing is optimized for speed when they swing a perpendicular to their spine as possible, regardless of shaft length.

Think about it, a golfer rotates their swing around their spine, right?? The more perpendicular to their spine their swing path is to their spine, the longer their swing is, by that it means that their hands are furthest from their spines rotation (if that makes sense) If we understand that a longer shaft produces a faster swing speed all other things equal. Then being in an optimal swing position produces a faster swing speed as well. So if that makes sense, that explain why a shorter shaft gave you a faster SS.

[PixlPutterman]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1373239035' post='7404742']
[quote name='Orlimar1' timestamp='1373122739' post='7397866']
The shorter overall length is one of the eye-openers in this thread. Most here feel the shorter length enables us to more likely hit the sweetspot and get a higher "smash factor". The higher smash factor will help[b] recover some of the length lost by using a much shorter driver than with graphite[/b]. With the much needed, for most of us, higher percentage of fairways being hit.
[/quote]

From what I have seen, this is a complete falacy. I have clocked drivers with shafts from 50 to 125 and the clunhead speed doesn't drop like you think it does. I'm still at 107 with my Cleveland just like I am with my ACP & 65gm graphite. I'm just able to get more swings out of the lighter setup before I start getting to tired to play.

BT
[/quote]

Yes and No.......Steel or Graphite shouldnt have any bearing on swing speed. More than likely the heavier steel is calming the hands of the average golfer, that should help easily increase average smash factor. The length of the shaft regardless of shorter or longs needs to be at the correct length. I think this thread has become a sounding board for those that have found shorter is easier for them to swing. The steel is just a by product of the thread, maybe it is a better option for shorter shafts, maybe its not, but for some it really does fit.

If its a falacy, then its just as big as a falacy the current advertising by golf companies on their longest ever crap.

The golfing community will be a much better place one day when we all realize its about fit, not ego

[MrMorganUSC]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1373238563' post='7404716']
[quote name='MrMorganUSC' timestamp='1373034781' post='7392402']
My MP650 should be here on Monday. Wish that was today but the 4th pushed it back a day.

I am thinking that I am going to start out with my X100 untipped and butt cutt it to 43.75 or 43.5 (see what the swingweight comes to), see how that goes. If I feel like it should be tipped, I will pull that shaft and tip the next one (bought 3 x100's) 1.25 and but cutt it to the correct length....see how that goes.

If that goes well, I will tip the first shaft and put it in my MP650 3 wood.

If it fails again (tried this back in Sept. with a 290) I have a Xcaliber 6+ TS that I recently bought that I will put in the driver and put the Epic T90x back in the 3 wood (which I like).

I got this figured out.
[/quote]

The difference between un-tipped and 1.25" is a BUNCH. Perhaps you should go a bit more slowly. Say .75"? Too much tipping will kill the feel in these shafts. Remember, the torque in the 2.7* range!

BT
[/quote]

good point.

Thanks

[PixlPutterman]

An X100 straight in will play perdy darn stout, I would be surprised if you needed any tipping at all.........steel is a whole different animal than graphite my friend

[stage1350]

Disagree on two things.

What we are finding here is that total weight helps to keep the clubhead on path and keep the golfer from getting flippy or wristy. Which means some people could benefit not from steel, but from heavier graphite as well.

Second, X-100 has an 8.5" parallel tip. It needs to be tipped to compensate for bore depth. If you are sticking it straight in, you are playing closer to an S-300 shaft because you didn't tip it.

A true X in the Dynamic shafts will have the first step at 8" from the sole to the first step when installed in a driver if it has been tipped properly.

[fore]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1373275854' post='7407312']
Disagree on two things.

[b]What we are finding here is that total weight helps to keep the clubhead on path and keep the golfer from getting flippy or wristy. Which means some people could benefit not from steel, but from heavier graphite as well.[/b]

Second, X-100 has an 8.5" parallel tip. It needs to be tipped to compensate for bore depth. If you are sticking it straight in, you are playing closer to an S-300 shaft because you didn't tip it.

A true X in the Dynamic shafts will have the first step at 8" from the sole to the first step when installed in a driver if it has been tipped properly.
[/quote]

So true. I like feeling where the club is during the swing. The light graphite shafted clubs that have become popular have no feel. They're just too light.

You can probably get a graphite shaft that feels more like steel but it will cost you 2 or 3 hundred bucks more than steel.

[PixlPutterman]

There is the the NV105, but is that heavy enough

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='PixlPutterman ' timestamp='1373295848' post='7408610']
There is the the NV105, but is that heavy enough
[/quote]

I tried the NV105 S in a 205gm driver head and it felt firmer than any steel shaft I have ever used.

BT

[Orlimar1]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1373334214' post='7413412']
[quote name='PixlPutterman ' timestamp='1373295848' post='7408610']
There is the the NV105, but is that heavy enough
[/quote]

I tried the NV105 S in a 205gm driver head and it felt firmer than any steel shaft I have ever used.

BT
[/quote]

How did it work out for you. I have a couple of them at home.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1373334214' post='7413412']
[quote name='PixlPutterman ' timestamp='1373295848' post='7408610']
There is the the NV105, but is that heavy enough
[/quote]

I tried the NV105 S in a 205gm driver head and it felt firmer than any steel shaft I have ever used.

BT
[/quote]

Interesting, I gave up on the NV105 Stiff because I thought it was too weak. I bought it thinking the 105 would play stiffer than some of the other S rated NV shafts, but not so much for me...

[PixlPutterman]

Id imagine you both release the club very differently

[MrMorganUSC]

Got the MP650 in yesterday but with it being my wedding week and with chores around the house to be done before the in-laws/friends comes to town, I don't know if I will be able to put this thing together this week. Even if I could get it together, I won't be able to hit it for a week and a half

[mr smith]

Ive been keeping a close eye on this thread but my first post.

I have a Classic 310 9.5 which I know has potential but lacks consistency. Or more to the point I lack consistency. I have decided to pull the trigger on steel. I have never really been consistent with graphite, but just assumed it was me. I plan on putting a S300 at 43.5 for starters, and maybe go down to 43 if 43.5 doesnt work. Im excited about this, the Classic is long with a beautiful ball flight, withe consistency of steel it should be a killer combo.

[mr smith]

[quote name='MrMorganUSC' timestamp='1373364590' post='7415388']
Got the MP650 in yesterday but with it being my wedding week and with chores around the house to be done before the in-laws/friends comes to town, I don't know if I will be able to put this thing together this week. Even if I could get it together, I won't be able to hit it for a week and a half
[/quote]
Got your wedding coming up but more worried about new driver. Love it!

[mr smith]

[quote name='alessio' timestamp='1373122685' post='7397862']
Tiger Woods:

Driving Distance

- 2000 (steel shaft 43.5 inches): 298 yards.
- 2013: 294.5 yards.
[/quote]
One of the most telling stats Ive seen in the Tiger saga. Dont know why he doesnt go back to steel, maybe Nike drivers dont match up well with steel shafts.

[ptjn1201]

I think you have to put Woods' driving distance stats with steel in context, though -- he was a lot younger and more flexible back in 2000, hadn't bulked up as much and still had some knee surgeries ahead of him. And he still wasn't a straight driver back then, either. Granted, a short heavy shaft wasn't hurting him then, and it probably wouldn't now. And I think it would help make his misses less horrible.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='PixlPutterman ' timestamp='1373339105' post='7414102']
Id imagine you both release the club very differently
[/quote]

That would be my guess, as well.

[mr smith]

[quote name='ptjn1201' timestamp='1373379393' post='7416426']
I think you have to put Woods' driving distance stats with steel in context, though -- he was a lot younger and more flexible back in 2000, hadn't bulked up as much and still had some knee surgeries ahead of him. And he still wasn't a straight driver back then, either. Granted, a short heavy shaft wasn't hurting him then, and it probably wouldn't now. And I think it would help make his misses less horrible.
[/quote]
I think the telling thing is his loss of distance. I agree injuries etc have some effect, but over that period most pros of tigers vintage have seen huge distance increases, up to 30 or 40 yards for some. I dont recall tiger having the huge misses right he has now either. I think some of the posts here about steel being better for stronger players may be right. Tiger is way ahead of the curve strength wise, maybe he is too strong to gain the benefits of graphite.

[Froth]

I have been toying with putting an uncut 46" DG X100 into a 210gr 7.5° 907D2, This thread may have inspired me to do so. I cannot imagine something taking my 975J out of the bag though. Will report back if I do so with results.

[straightedge]

Any thoughts on the Miyazaki B. Asha in this driver? I know that a lot of this thread is about steel, just wanted to hear a little feedback.

[annisoren]

Anyone know where I can get a steel shaft with Anser tip installed? Neither my local shop nor Ping will do this. Thanks in advance.