USGA? Teen DQ'd from Sectional for going to the bathroom before turning in his scorecard

Just saw this article and, what the heck? 16-year-old kid finishes his round with a headache and has to hit the head. Runs to his car to get medicine, takes a piss, and 10 minutes later goes to the scorer's table before the group behind him finishes their round. He gets DQ'd because someone decided he didn't "promptly" turn in his scorecard.

Sure, the kid wasn't going to qualify, but this is such BS. I can't believe they would have pulled this crap on a pro trying to qualify.

https://golfweek.com/2019/06/06/us-open-16-year-old-disqualified-sectional/

usga gonna usga, come hell or high water ...

according to the article, though, the mid atlantic golf association runs the tournament ...

I blame vaping...

tHe RulEs aRe tHe RuLes

We may not be getting the full story here.

> @tatertot said:

> We may not be getting the full story here.

It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the hell did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @tatertot said:

> > We may not be getting the full story here.

>

> It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

>

> Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the **** did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

He was playing with others, obviously. He could and should have told them that he had to hit the head. The headache wasn't going to go away immediately with some medicine, so that could have waited. I'm not saying that the USGA is right in this, but the kid could have been more proactive about how he went about all of the post round stuff. Even stopping by the scorers table, which is never that far from the parking lot, to let them know what was going on would have improved his situation.

> @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > @Philomathesq said:

> > > @tatertot said:

> > > We may not be getting the full story here.

> >

> > It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

> >

> > Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the **** did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

>

> He was playing with others, obviously. He could and should have told them that he had to hit the head. The headache wasn't going to go away immediately with some medicine, so that could have waited. I'm not saying that the USGA is right in this, but the kid could have been more proactive about how he went about all of the post round stuff. Even stopping by the scorers table, which is never that far from the parking lot, to let them know what was going on would have improved his situation.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, this seems like such an overreach. I'm all for teaching moments, but this is not a punishment that fits the "crime." Getting DQ'd from a sectional because you showed up a few minutes late to the scorer's table because you had to hit the head, especially when there are no allegations that the kid attempted to cheat or gain some advantage.

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > @tatertot said:

> > > > We may not be getting the full story here.

> > >

> > > It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

> > >

> > > Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the **** did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

> >

> > He was playing with others, obviously. He could and should have told them that he had to hit the head. The headache wasn't going to go away immediately with some medicine, so that could have waited. I'm not saying that the USGA is right in this, but the kid could have been more proactive about how he went about all of the post round stuff. Even stopping by the scorers table, which is never that far from the parking lot, to let them know what was going on would have improved his situation.

>

> I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, this seems like such an overreach. I'm all for teaching moments, but this is not a punishment that fits the "crime." Getting DQ'd from a sectional because you showed up a few minutes late to the scorer's table because you had to hit the head, especially when there are no allegations that the kid attempted to cheat or gain some advantage.

He turned his card in, at least according to those at the scorers table, after the group behind him. I've seen it happen in state events, it's never a pretty thing to have happen. While I feel awful for the young man who missed his opportunity to try to get in with a fantastic second round, as well as not really being anything remotely close to a fan of the USGA, this seems like it was the right call that was made. Given his group allegedly had no idea where he went, being more communicative would have saved him here.

I don’t know what people’s issue here is? In any tournament I’ve ever played in, one of the most important things is to sign your scorecard at the scoring table/tent. Immediately after you leave the 18th green. No going to the washroom. No talking to your buddies. No going to your car. There is no grey area here. It is a must. You cannot even leave the scoring area once you enter it unless you have signed your card (unless escorted by an official to review a dispute).

The kid knows the Rule. He committed a major Rule violation and there is no recourse for any committee. It’s an automatic DQ.

> @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > @Philomathesq said:

> > > @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > > @tatertot said:

> > > > > We may not be getting the full story here.

> > > >

> > > > It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

> > > >

> > > > Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the **** did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

> > >

> > > He was playing with others, obviously. He could and should have told them that he had to hit the head. The headache wasn't going to go away immediately with some medicine, so that could have waited. I'm not saying that the USGA is right in this, but the kid could have been more proactive about how he went about all of the post round stuff. Even stopping by the scorers table, which is never that far from the parking lot, to let them know what was going on would have improved his situation.

> >

> > I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, this seems like such an overreach. I'm all for teaching moments, but this is not a punishment that fits the "crime." Getting DQ'd from a sectional because you showed up a few minutes late to the scorer's table because you had to hit the head, especially when there are no allegations that the kid attempted to cheat or gain some advantage.

>

> **He turned his card in, at least according to those at the scorers table, after the group behind him.** I've seen it happen in state events, it's never a pretty thing to have happen. While I feel awful for the young man who missed his opportunity to try to get in with a fantastic second round, as well as not really being anything remotely close to a fan of the USGA, this seems like it was the right call that was made. Given his group allegedly had no idea where he went, being more communicative would have saved him here.

This is another point of contention. The kid and his dad claim he returned while the two guys he was playing with were still at the scorer's table and the group behind them hadn't yet reached the 18th green. The officials say otherwise. While I get that the kid could be lying, it's hard to imagine that in 10 minutes the group behind the kid could have completed their round and finalized and signed their scorecards.

> @Socrates said:

> I don’t know what people’s issue here is? In any tournament I’ve ever played in, one of the most important things is to sign your scorecard at the scoring table/tent. Immediately after you leave the 18th green. No going to the washroom. No talking to your buddies. No going to your car. There is no grey area here. It is a must. You cannot even leave the scoring area once you enter it unless you have signed your card (unless escorted by an official to review a dispute).

>

> The kid knows the Rule. **He committed a major Rule violation and there is no recourse for any committee. It’s an automatic DQ.**

Not according to the USGA. The USGA clearly stated that there are exceptions to the rule and that the word "promptly" in the rule is subject to interpretation.

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > > > @tatertot said:

> > > > > > We may not be getting the full story here.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

> > > > >

> > > > > Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the **** did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

> > > >

> > > > He was playing with others, obviously. He could and should have told them that he had to hit the head. The headache wasn't going to go away immediately with some medicine, so that could have waited. I'm not saying that the USGA is right in this, but the kid could have been more proactive about how he went about all of the post round stuff. Even stopping by the scorers table, which is never that far from the parking lot, to let them know what was going on would have improved his situation.

> > >

> > > I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, this seems like such an overreach. I'm all for teaching moments, but this is not a punishment that fits the "crime." Getting DQ'd from a sectional because you showed up a few minutes late to the scorer's table because you had to hit the head, especially when there are no allegations that the kid attempted to cheat or gain some advantage.

> >

> > **He turned his card in, at least according to those at the scorers table, after the group behind him.** I've seen it happen in state events, it's never a pretty thing to have happen. While I feel awful for the young man who missed his opportunity to try to get in with a fantastic second round, as well as not really being anything remotely close to a fan of the USGA, this seems like it was the right call that was made. Given his group allegedly had no idea where he went, being more communicative would have saved him here.

>

> This is another point of contention. The kid and his dad claim he returned while the two guys he was playing with were still at the scorer's table and the group behind them hadn't yet reached the 18th green. The officials say otherwise. While I get that the kid could be lying, it's hard to imagine that in 10 minutes the group behind the kid could have completed their round and finalized and signed their scorecards.

Yeah something fishy. They claim 10 minutes, with play as slow as it is at these events, what is the likely hood there is a full 10+ minute gap between groups? Perhaps he missed 1 entire group.

Either way, silly reason to DQ. When a 16 makes a sectional, let the damn kid finish out

Just turn it in, is the lesson here.

The crazier something sounds, the more likely you are only hearing one side of the story.

The USGA said that had they been told of a medical issue, they would have taken it into account. While I don't particularly love this rule, it is a very well known rule with numerous instances of pros being disqualified for leaving the scoring area without turning in their scorecards. And, this is **US OPEN QUALIFYING.**

This headache was apparently not a medical emergency. "I don't feel good, I need to go to the bathroom" and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, stop for a sandwich while the officials are wondering where you are? Sorry for the kid, but I agree with the call.

How dumb. Couldn't wait to take a dump before going to the scorers tent. lol.

A lot of people have mentioned the kids age of 16. Does/should that factor in to the committee’s decision? If he were 33, and did the exact same thing - would that matter to any of you saying he should have been given a pass here?

BS ruling. Typical USGA. Story said he has medicine for headaches so probably migraines. Anyone that suffers that type of headache knows how much discomfort they can cause. It's not like aspirin is "his medicine". The USGA just can't get over themselves sometimes.

> @golfandfishing said:

> A lot of people have mentioned the kids age of 16. Does/should that factor in to the committee’s decision? If he were 33, and did the exact same thing - would that matter to any of you saying he should have been given a pass here?

It doesn't matter to me. Its just the media trying to make you feel sorry for the poor little guy routine. "Poor little kid gets wronged by a bunch of old meanies. "

Should he have been DQ'd. That's pretty harsh. But at the very least, he should have told SOMEONE where he was going if it was an emergency situation.

> @BrianMcG said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > A lot of people have mentioned the kids age of 16. Does/should that factor in to the committee’s decision? If he were 33, and did the exact same thing - would that matter to any of you saying he should have been given a pass here?

>

> It doesn't matter to me. Its just the media trying to make you feel sorry for the poor little guy routine. "Poor little kid gets wronged by a bunch of old meanies. "

>

> Should he have been DQ'd. That's pretty harsh. **But at the very least, he should have told SOMEONE where he was going if it was an emergency situation. **

Ditto..

The kid disappeared without telling anyone. Everyone thought he just left..

Article suggests he came back looking at the scoreboard to see where he stacked up. Doesn't sound like the kid gave any thought to his scorecard, and maybe wouldn't have but for relatives engaged in an argument. He messed up, life goes on.

"By the time Fox — a junior who has won three Western Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic League championships at Riverside High School — made his way to the scoreboard area to see where he stacked up, he saw an ‘NC’ next to his name, meaning he hadn’t delivered his scorecard. At the scorer’s table, he saw his swing coach, Sean Swidzinski, and father, Joe, arguing with a tournament official."

> @Nessism said:

> BS ruling. Typical USGA. Story said he has medicine for headaches so probably migraines. Anyone that suffers that type of headache knows how much discomfort they can cause. It's not like aspirin is "his medicine". The USGA just can't get over themselves sometimes.

I suffer migraines ... 5 minutes isn't going to make a difference on medication. Something is "off" on this story. Why wouldn't he just stop, sign his card and turn it in before taking medication/relieving himself/getting lunch.

This is a real question; How long does it take to turn in a score card? Couldn't he have dropped it off on the way to the bathroom? In qualifiers, do players keep the card of other players? It could have been that they were waiting for him to turn in the score of another player.

If the above from Hawkeye is accurate it sounds like he didn’t know he had to sign a card after 18 holes. He has plenty of tournament experience, he should know that by this time. He never even visited the scoring table until his entourage was arguing? Not good - next stop Dairy Queen.

The USGA is disgrace.

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> Article suggests he came back looking at the scoreboard to see where he stacked up. Doesn't sound like the kid gave any thought to his scorecard, and maybe wouldn't have but for relatives engaged in an argument. He messed up, life goes on.

>

> "By the time Fox — a junior who has won three Western Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic League championships at Riverside High School — made his way to the scoreboard area to see where he stacked up, he saw an ‘NC’ next to his name, meaning he hadn’t delivered his scorecard. At the scorer’s table, he saw his swing coach, Sean Swidzinski, and father, Joe, arguing with a tournament official."

>

>

There’s always a father...

This is as good as the kid who got Dqed because his caddie got a ride back from the porta john by a guy with a USga shirt on. Thinking it was an official and it was ok. Turns out it was a volunteer and rides are forbidden

R3.3 clearly states "Must certify the hole scores on the scorecard and promptly return it to the Committee . . . ."

Children get themselves disqualified often

> @caniac6 said:

> This is a real question; How long does it take to turn in a score card? Couldn't he have dropped it off on the way to the bathroom? In qualifiers, do players keep the card of other players? It could have been that they were waiting for him to turn in the score of another player.

Eh. Suddenly don’t care. Hard to feel sorry for him if He’s got a swing coach and a dad hovering around for a qualifier. lol. Maybe the 3 of them could put their heads together and think.

> @"sui generis" said:

> R3.3 clearly states "Must certify the hole scores on the scorecard and promptly return it to the Committee . . . ."

>

> Children get themselves disqualified often

I have to assume by your name that you are an attorney, for which I apologize. :-) Clearly, you can see that the rule uses the word "promptly" which is ambiguous. 10 minutes, in my opinion, is not prima facie imprompt (unprompt?). To draw a corollary to the law, I just had a huge dispute in federal court regarding the 2015 updates to FRCP 37(e) and penalties for spoliation. The updates basically install a new regime for spoliation: No Harm, No Foul. I'm ok with that. What harm was caused by this kid's bathroom break? If no harm, why the hell does he get DQ'd? It's not as if he tried to cheat.