Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game...

[ritz0019]

I think golf has peaked, that's all. During the Tiger era, more people were interested in the game. Look at NASCAR, same situation. There was a period of time when raceways was selling out and people were going nuts over racing. Now, racing is back where it was before the huge peak. Golf is the same. Tiger brought more people to the game. Then, it kinda crashed back down to a country club sport again. Here is why I don't buy the money and time theory. Take a few other example hobbies:

 

1) Fly fishing...good luck doing this in under 4 hours and spending less than you do on golf.

2) Camping..again same thing.

3) Hunting...guns, deer stand, cold gear, accessories, and being out in the woods for hours.

 

Fly Fishing, fishing in general, and Hunting are also in decline.

 

That's not accurate information:

 

1) Fly-fishing is up 9.8% in the last 3 years

2) Freshwater fishing is up 0.9% in the last 3 years, saltwater 4.0%

3) Depending on the type, hunting is up 4.8% - 10.3%, but none of those categories have declined in the last 3 years

4) Camping is up 8.9% in the last 3 years.

[ritz0019]

Conversely, there were 29.03 million people who played golf within 12 months in the spring of 2008. In the spring of 2017, there were 25.95 million. In the US

[Bad9]

Whether we call it a market correction or a decline from what I have seen in the past few years the following appear to be true

 

-there is a reduction in the overall number of golfers

-the age of golfers in going up(ie fewer younger golfers and juniors)

-the mid and bottom price range is most affected negatively while the high end resort market may be expanding

[Pepperturbo]

I don't buy equipment to keep equipment manufactures in business; that doesn't even cross my mind. When I buy any piece of golf equipment, it's because it has a purpose. Cost is considered but not defining, and I don't let the magnitude of the industry's merchandising techniques influence my feelings on the matter. If a $600 driver does not work, it's because the purchaser wasn't correctly fit before spending his/her hard-earned money. No company forces anyone to buy what it produces; if a product doesn't work let's lay blame where it belongs.

 

As I see it, people walk away from golf for a variety of reasons; the initial cost of equipment and maybe instruction, the time it takes to feel somewhat accomplished at golf, the time it takes to practice or enjoy a round of golf, and ongoing general costs and education associated with maintaining whatever level of skill that person has. Golf is time-consuming and costly.

 

The question a person should ask themselves before starting any sport is what's your motive and how involved do you want to be and what can you afford. The complexity of any activity and its equipment choices are not reasonable arguments to someone like me that doesn't see those issues as bothersome or worth changing. :beach:

[hnryclay]

I think golf has peaked, that's all. During the Tiger era, more people were interested in the game. Look at NASCAR, same situation. There was a period of time when raceways was selling out and people were going nuts over racing. Now, racing is back where it was before the huge peak. Golf is the same. Tiger brought more people to the game. Then, it kinda crashed back down to a country club sport again. Here is why I don't buy the money and time theory. Take a few other example hobbies:

 

1) Fly fishing...good luck doing this in under 4 hours and spending less than you do on golf.

2) Camping..again same thing.

3) Hunting...guns, deer stand, cold gear, accessories, and being out in the woods for hours.

 

Fly Fishing, fishing in general, and Hunting are also in decline.

 

That's not accurate information:

 

1) Fly-fishing is up 9.8% in the last 3 years

2) Freshwater fishing is up 0.9% in the last 3 years, saltwater 4.0%

3) Depending on the type, hunting is up 4.8% - 10.3%, but none of those categories have declined in the last 3 years

4) Camping is up 8.9% in the last 3 years.

 

Perhaps I should have prefaced that with my state information. In Virginia our DGIF has reported a decrease in people purchasing licences for hunting and fishing.

[hlca]

Golf is hard, expensive and time consuming. Lots of people excited about golf (e.g., after watching Tiger play), but can't play as well as they would like. Unless they have time to practice and develop their game, they will not get to where they want to be. After some time that excitement will wane and they will wonder why they are spending so much time and money on something they are not that good at.

[Mcgeeno]

Green fees you pay for things like this are accounted for in some way. Clubs have financial records and tee sheets to track things.

 

Forgive my ignorance but how does a stat like “fly fishing is up 9.8 percent” even exist?

 

Are the rivers and lakes marked and you sign in? Is that from number of fly fishing rods sold? A survey taken somewhere?

 

Genuinely curious.

 

Edit: just read another response. Didn’t know you need a licence to fish. I’ve never been in that world and done it.

[harolease]

Generally cause it takes to long to play a round

Having said that it was enjoyable as a kid in the summer when I didn’t work and went to school in the winter

Golf for me back then was an escape. Hit the ball. Find the ball. Hit the ball to the green. Mark the ball. Hit the ball past the hole. Gentlely roll the ball back into the hole. Repeat.

Now as an adult. It’s more about playing the game and getting a round in at a decent time.

[mfm22]

took the words out of my mouth ! " It's Hard , it's time consuming , it's expensive "

 

It's probably Easier to climb MT. Everest than becoming a scratch golfer ! [ even a single digit hdcp] Maybe that's part of the allure , never ending challenge no matter what your level .

 

 

I can do without the 6 hr rounds , don't need to join a private club - plenty of good muni's here on LI.

 

I'm a simple soul [ simpleton as well] happy to play 9 or hit the range for an hour or so - just as long as I keep finding " the secret " lol

[NJpatbee]

To put some perspective on some of the social issues and parental obligations that hinder one's ability to play golf, we are comparing golf participation in 2008 with 2018, not 1958 or 1968 with 2018. The era of working long hours, two income families, carting children to gymnastics, baseball, hockey, softball, and piano lessons has been with us since the late 1970's. I raised three daughters in the 1980's and 1990's and had the same problems with golf as parents today. Golf was booming in 2007 and the bubble burst - speculators were building golf courses and housing developments with the hope that the growth in the game would continue as it had since Tiger. So what happened? I propose the calamity in the economy in 2008 resulting in a long term recession resulting in less disposable income and the collapse of the housing market. There are still a half dozen abandoned houses within easy walking distance of my home although their number has decreased in the last few years. For some golfers, the game has had to take a back seat other expenses. Secondary to the economy, Tiger went south just about the same time as the recession which did hurt interest in the game.

 

Golf has always been hard, time consuming, and expensive, although it is less expensive today relatively speaking than in 2008 in the NY Metro area where I play. As the economy improves more people will have the ability to participate in golf and perhaps buy some newer equipment. In other areas the contraction may not be over but it will subside based on supply and demand. As for young people entering the game, my grandson just graduated 7th grade and loves golf (after baseball) and so do 4-5 of his friends. When I was in 7th grade it was baseball. football, and basketball with none of my peers playing golf. Perhaps NJ is an anomaly but at my home course and others I play groups in their 20's, 30's , and early 40's are as abundant as those aged 45 - 75.

 

Sure the industry is suffering in some areas, but from my point of view there are plenty of golf enthusiasts young and old, and the game is healthy.

[wrmiller]

from my point of view there are plenty of golf enthusiasts young and old, and the game is healthy.

 

Agreed. I don't see courses, nor golf equipment manufacturers closing in droves. There appear to be plenty of people playing the game if participation on the local courses is any indication.

[LeoLeo99]

My local course was super crowded on weekends. I played there a few Sundays ago and it was empty. Where did all the golfers go? The retired folks don't need to play on weekends. The working folk are busy on weekends. Fathers are more involved with their kids and families than they were 30 years ago. They don't have 5 or 6 hours away from home on a weekend day. Just a rough guess but I'd say only 20% of the people I see on the golf course or at bag drop have new clubs. I see a lot of old irons in bags. From Ping G5 to old Spalding Executives.

[The Pearl]

Who cares? Why does the game have to grow? The game is as cheap as it has every been, particularly outside the major metro area's where demand exceeds the supply of golf courses. The internet has brought down the price of golf equipment to levels unheard of 30 years ago on an inflation adjusted basis.

 

This whole scare is manufactured and is nonsense. The most sensitive factor related to golf participation is economic conditions. The better the economy, the more golfers there will be in general.

 

The fact that golf is hard is a good thing, it is a barrier to entry so that those who stick with it will be a long term golfer and for the most part won't be clogging up the courses. Those that try and fail will give it up. Good, see you later. Go buy a boat or go ride a bike.

 

As far as golf taking too long, that is another red herring. People engage in activities all the time that take 4 to 5 hours, yet you never hear any complaints about those activities taking too long. Guys will sit in front the TV watching sporting events all day long.

 

As mentioned earlier, the big thing that has changed is that father's are far more active in their kid's lives than 30 or 40 yrs. ago and kid's lives are far more structured as in the past as Mommy and Daddy are convinced Little Jack and Little Jill are going to get that athletic scholarship. Back in the day, Dad's played golf on the weekends, went home, mowed the lawn and took a nap. Keeping the kids busy and fed was Mom's job, as well as having the house cleaned.

[Scanodd]

Only saw one guy in my life truly walk away from the game.

 

About 6-7 years ago there was a hard rain the night before so the mowers got out late – tee times were backed up 45 minutes. There were about 30 of us waiting to tee off. We all knew each other, and as expected, we all felt rushed when they finally cut us loose. A guy two groups ahead of us took a swipe at one and missed it, one of the guys from the group on deck mumbles “STRIKE ONE.” The guy who whiffed turned red and took another swing – missed again. The same game guys says, “STEEEEEEEERIKE TWO.” Laughter erupted. The guy backs off, takes a few practice swings and tops it about 60 yards. He turns to the group on deck and points at the guy and says “f- you” and “f- this game”. Walks off the tee and leaves. Left his clubs there and from I heard never returned, ever. He walked away.

 

I feel for the guy.

[youngstructural]

Golf is declining for the following reasons:

 

Slow play. Four hour rounds are now becoming unheard of and replaced with 4.5 and longer.

 

Golf is hard and people don't get proper instruction, so after toiling and struggling they give up.

 

In addition to golf being hard, even if one had the inclination to practice and improve decent golf facilities are hard to find. I'm lucky in SE Michigan, but I travel all over for work and some parts of country I go to don't have much of anything.

 

Golf is expensive, and that's not the direct issue but again it's a high up-front cost in time and money for almost no return via enjoyment bc it's a struggle.

 

Finally golf is a long time. This isn't the same as above. Meaning existing golfers are leaving bc of slow rounds but I feel new golfers in general don't stick around bc 4-5 hours is a long time period.

 

 

[CMCSGolf]

Golf is declining for the following reasons:

 

Slow play. Four hour rounds are now becoming unheard of and replaced with 4.5 and longer.

 

Golf is hard and people don't get proper instruction, so after toiling and struggling they give up.

 

In addition to golf being hard, even if one had the inclination to practice and improve decent golf facilities are hard to find. I'm lucky in SE Michigan, but I travel all over for work and some parts of country I go to don't have much of anything.

 

Golf is expensive, and that's not the direct issue but again it's a high up-front cost in time and money for almost no return via enjoyment bc it's a struggle.

 

Finally golf is a long time. This isn't the same as above. Meaning existing golfers are leaving bc of slow rounds but I feel new golfers in general don't stick around bc 4-5 hours is a long time period.

 

I'm not sure any of these are the cause. I think they are all factually true, but none of them have changed substantially since 1990. Rounds have been over 4 hours for years, drivers have been really expensive for years, golf has always been really hard to learn, etc... In order to explain why golf is declining, it has to be from something that is different today than it was 20 years ago and none of these things have changed much in my experience.

 

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but my answer is that golf is now competing against more attractive alternatives (like really good video games) and more young people live in dense cities that are difficult to golf in (Very few cities have courses accessible by public transit).

[Naptime]

Culture is cyclical. We have transitioned from MADD inspired alcohol avoidance to bourbon and single malts. NASCAR looks on a downswing while IndyCar is on a bit of a rise. No great reason why golf should be different. I am OK if fewer people golf. Maybe we won't have to deal with 8 minute intervals at the county muni. I really don't want all my neighbors on the course. But I don't suggest they go boating. Stupid golf is an annoyance. Stupid boating is lethal to bystanders.

[youngstructural]

I don't think it's cultural per se. Video games may occupy the time of teens and twenty somethings but what men or women in their 30s and up are pouring equivalent time into video games?

[hnryclay]

I don't think it's cultural per se. Video games may occupy the time of teens and twenty somethings but what men or women in their 30s and up are pouring equivalent time into video games?

While I also think its odd, plenty of 30 year olds play video games for hours. They dont understand why we golf, and for the life of me I dont understand why they play, but to each thier own.

[CMCSGolf]

I don't think it's cultural per se. Video games may occupy the time of teens and twenty somethings but what men or women in their 30s and up are pouring equivalent time into video games?

While I also think its odd, plenty of 30 year olds play video games for hours. They dont understand why we golf, and for the life of me I dont understand why they play, but to each thier own.

 

I think this is 100% correct. I'm 29 and many many people I know play a lot of video games. I don't get it, but they probably think I'm crazy for golfing. The decline in golfers is fewer young people (15-30), not older people who didn't grow up with modern games. Young people are not filling in for older golfers aging out of the game and that is because they have found better ways to spend money/time in their eyes.

 

PS: I don't think video games are the only popular alternative, but they are a big part. Golf is a sport best learned by being bored at a course for summers on end. Modern kids play a lot of structured sports and are running from scheduled practice to scheduled practice. This takes away from time spent beating balls until you figure it out.

[dubbelbogey]

I work in tech and it's not uncommon for some in this field that are in their 40s, 50s and a few in their 60s to play video games. It's not just the younger generation. Whereas golf used to be a fairly common "work/social" function decades ago, I think in some industries (like mine) that this is in decline. Instead of a company golf scramble, we see a much greater variety of things to do for co-workers to do to have fun: puzzle rooms, video game sessions, axe throwing, go-carts, hitting up the local brewery, etc... Most of which don't require much skill to do the basics. I know for a fact many workers who played in scrambles that hated doing so because it was embarrassing to them because of their low skill level. They played because they felt some amount of pressure to do so for professional reasons. With that sort of event being less common, we have fewer exposed to the game who might, in fact, catch the bug and want to play more on their own.

 

I also see less taking clients out for a round of golf as a way to cultivate business relationships. I got into golf as an adult at least partly because it was a common business-related activity. I haven't played a work-related round of golf in about a dozen years. Sure, it does still happen, but in industries like mine, it's far less common now. It's just not an effective, time-efficient way to spend business dollars for most companies.

 

I think it's also undeniable that golf doesn't have much of a public media draw right now. There is no Nicklaus from my parents generation. There is no Tiger from my generation - at least not every week like he used to be. Who is compelling to watch on TV, right now, this week, the week before The Open? At least to the point that draws viewers from outside of us, hardcore golfers? Nobody. We have a bunch of boring Justins/Jasons/Jordans/Dustins who all wear white belts as their most notable trait, instead of compelling personalities like Daly and Tiger and Phil and Sergio (or Freddie, or Arnie or Chi-Chi). Just think about it - you know most of that latter set of golfers by their first names, only. When you hear "Jordan" who do you think of? I think of #23. Rickie Fowler is the closest we have right now and he's still major-less.

 

So, fewer non-golfers watching pro golf means fewer will cross the excitement threshold of wanting to try the sport out on their own. If and when we get another pied-piper to follow, we'll see another uptick in participation, I'm sure.

[Hogan9]

from my point of view there are plenty of golf enthusiasts young and old, and the game is healthy.

 

Agreed. I don't see courses, nor golf equipment manufacturers closing in droves. There appear to be plenty of people playing the game if participation on the local courses is any indication.

 

Maybe it's a regional thing. I live in NC and have a vacation home in Central Florida. I've seen four courses close in Florida and three in NC in the last eight years.

Also, Golfsmith and Edwin Watts have both left the Charlotte market and a small local store recently closed near my Florida condo. It's ironic that we stopped playing one of the now closed Florida courses because it was too crowded. I think Nke's decision to get out of the equipment business is another indication of a retraction. Like you, I think the game will survive this, but we may see a few more years of limited growth. Let's all hope for a brighter future.

[Davewn]

I don't think it's cultural per se. Video games may occupy the time of teens and twenty somethings but what men or women in their 30s and up are pouring equivalent time into video games?

While I also think its odd, plenty of 30 year olds play video games for hours. They dont understand why we golf, and for the life of me I dont understand why they play, but to each thier own.

 

I think this is 100% correct. I'm 29 and many many people I know play a lot of video games. I don't get it, but they probably think I'm crazy for golfing. The decline in golfers is fewer young people (15-30), not older people who didn't grow up with modern games. Young people are not filling in for older golfers aging out of the game and that is because they have found better ways to spend money/time in their eyes.

 

PS: I don't think video games are the only popular alternative, but they are a big part. Golf is a sport best learned by being bored at a course for summers on end. Modern kids play a lot of structured sports and are running from scheduled practice to scheduled practice. This takes away from time spent beating balls until you figure it out.

 

Agree 100%- it's Economics 101. Golf is a pastime with high opportunity costs, especially time.

[Drewmiller07]

I don't think it's cultural per se. Video games may occupy the time of teens and twenty somethings but what men or women in their 30s and up are pouring equivalent time into video games?

While I also think its odd, plenty of 30 year olds play video games for hours. They dont understand why we golf, and for the life of me I dont understand why they play, but to each thier own.

 

I think this is 100% correct. I'm 29 and many many people I know play a lot of video games. I don't get it, but they probably think I'm crazy for golfing. The decline in golfers is fewer young people (15-30), not older people who didn't grow up with modern games. Young people are not filling in for older golfers aging out of the game and that is because they have found better ways to spend money/time in their eyes.

 

PS: I don't think video games are the only popular alternative, but they are a big part. Golf is a sport best learned by being bored at a course for summers on end. Modern kids play a lot of structured sports and are running from scheduled practice to scheduled practice. This takes away from time spent beating balls until you figure it out.

 

I’m 27 and have been playing for 20 years... I’m still beating balls trying to figure it out.

[Greenie]

I think everything mentioned in this thread has impacted golf to some degree. I used to play 50 plus rounds a yr. for over 20 yrs. In recent yrs. I might play 5-10 rounds. We use to have 30 players in our gang and now there is one guy left playing regular and it's not me. The main issue has been slow play for us. Yes slow play has always been around but what use to be slow play at 4:15 has now become 5 hrs. We lost some due to health issues but the majority of our group moved on due to slow play. I have the time to play so time isn't the issue and I have no problem being on the course all day as long as I am hitting the ball. Standing around waiting to hit my next shot just drives me crazy if it's every swing.My friend still gets me to go out. What I do now is if it we get done in 4:30 or less I'll go with him the next weekend. If it's over 4:30 I say see ya next month for a around. Golf is a once a month thing for me now. I still love golf and come on here regularly I just don't play much anymore. I'm big into fishing now as are a lot of the guys that left our group before me. I use to find golf relaxing but standing around or running accross the increasing number of rude people on the course has taken the relaxation part of it away for me. I'm sure someone will reply maybe you should do something else if you can't deal with it. I have.

[evgolfer]

Is there any actual data on this? I can't imagine someone -- the USGA, equipment manufacturers -- hasn't done some research on this.

 

I'd be intrigued to see some hard numbers, and not just anecdotal evidence.

[FourTops]

Golf has too many golf nerds who blather on and on about stuff that only serves to bore people to tears.

[nsxguy]

Golf has too many golf nerds who blather on and on about stuff that only serves to bore people to tears.

 

This from someone who, in only 2 months and at just under 9 posts per day, is easily in the Top 10 on the site (PPD that is). :lol:

[FourTops]

Golf has too many golf nerds who blather on and on about stuff that only serves to bore people to tears.

 

This from someone who, in only 2 months and at just under 9 posts per day, is easily in the Top 10 on the site (PPD that is). :lol:

 

I know...and I "liked" your post...but sometimes some stuff gets annoying. It's the 1%'ers that cause me to do some tequila shooters before responding.

[BNGL]

Love that 'Outlaw golf Association'. Sick and tired of the USGA and their crap. How do I join up? ;)

 

Careful someone will report you to 15