What up with Jordan?

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> Look. I’m not arguing this with you further. I think more of you than that. We just disagree and I’ll leave it there.

 

?

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> Spieth admitted in his recent podcast he’s been practicing more than he’s ever done. Its root is mental. Period.

>

HIlarious. The podcast he says it started with the mechanical issues in his putting stroke and that bled into his full swing. Then his head started to hurt because his game sucked. I don't doubt there is some mental issue now that needs to be fixed but he didn't just wake up and decide "I'm too good" or "I don't want to play well anymore."

 

You just want to hear what you want to hear and say it's all the brain because that's your profession (or so you say).

 

 

[lowheel]

> @bladehunter said:

> Lol. Ends it 1 over . Same score and placement as Rickie. But totally different path.

>

> Need a Dramamine to watch that round.

 

lol very true. He grinded it out like a true pro. Alot like a vintage Seve or Phil.The ups and downs are exhausting. He cracked a smile after the round and he was like WTF.

[Cool Runnings]

Not brain… in his Mind. They’re different animals.

 

And Jordan says a lot, and a lot of what he says is what’s keeping him trapped in this cycle. The root cause is mental and the root effect is technical.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > Spieth admitted in his recent podcast he’s been practicing more than he’s ever done. Its root is mental. Period.

> >

> HIlarious. The podcast he says it started with the mechanical issues in his putting stroke and that bled into his full swing. Then his head started to hurt because his game sucked. I don't doubt there is some mental issue now that needs to be fixed but he didn't just wake up and decide "I'm too good" or "I don't want to play well anymore."

>

> You just want to hear what you want to hear and say it's all the brain because that's your profession (or so you say).

>

>

 

 

[bscinstnct]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> Not brain… in his Mind. They’re different animals.

>

> And Jordan says a lot, and a lot of what he says is what’s keeping him trapped in this cycle. The root cause is mental and the root effect is technical.

>

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > Spieth admitted in his recent podcast he’s been practicing more than he’s ever done. Its root is mental. Period.

> > >

> > HIlarious. The podcast he says it started with the mechanical issues in his putting stroke and that bled into his full swing. Then his head started to hurt because his game sucked. I don't doubt there is some mental issue now that needs to be fixed but he didn't just wake up and decide "I'm too good" or "I don't want to play well anymore."

> >

> > You just want to hear what you want to hear and say it's all the brain because that's your profession (or so you say).

> >

> >

>

>

 

Or, it could be as simple as minute technical issues that, at this level and "under the lights" are magnified, produce poor results, which then cause mental distress that inhibits performance further.

In sports, any small flaw can develop in form. Whether its track, football, soccer, golf, an athlete can have form breakdowns that become habits.

 

[lowheel]

> @rattlergolfer said:

> > @Lamb said:

> > He WILL still contented at the Masters I am 100% sure about that.

> Funny .... At this rate and how frazzled he is ... he might not make the cut. This course isn't tree lined either. Augusta Will force you to work the ball and two bad swings .... He is toast.

 

If only he knew how to play there let alone win there...

[gvogel]

> @Lamb said:

> He WILL still contented at the Masters I am 100% sure about that.

 

Probably. but he's still a chopper.

[North Texas]

On another site I frequent, a poster there has a friend who knows Cameron McCormick. Said his friend told him that Cameron has Jordan's mind absolutely fried with swing thoughts and mechanics. Take it for what it's worth.

[Wildwing55]

It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

[rattlergolfer]

> @Wildwing55 said:

> It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

I absolutely agree with this. Plus, working on changes after your are successful.

[North Texas]

> @Wildwing55 said:

> It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

 

You're right. Not the same. Hence, no reason whatsoever to look Marty Fleckman.

 

If we're going to look someone up for comparison, let's find someone who has won 3 majors and has double digit wins.

[ebrasmus21]

I’m not a YJS fan but I recognize what he’s accomplished.

 

From what I gather the game of golf is in need of growth and getting more and more people interested in what golf is all about.

 

YJS, love him or hate him, generates interest in the game because he has that “it” factor. For this reason alone I hope he gets back to his winning ways.

 

He looks like he lacks confidence to my untrained eye but what do I know.

 

Hang in there, YJS.

[North Texas]

> @rattlergolfer said:

> > @Wildwing55 said:

> > It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

> I absolutely agree with this. Plus, working on changes after your are successful.

 

Exactly when did he start working on these changes? He led the tour in scoring average in 2017 and was 18th in 2018.

[bladehunter]

> @rattlergolfer said:

> > @Wildwing55 said:

> > It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

> I absolutely agree with this. Plus, working on changes after your are successful.

 

No such thing as too much success. Nor too early. That’s total nonsense.

 

Good job naming a player nobody has ever heard of. Lol

How many great players of great sport won big out of the gate ? Many. The idea that used to be “ you had to pay your dues on tour” was an excuse for the weak. Jack didn’t. Palmer didn’t. Player didn’t. They won. Early and often. Phil won as an am. Tiger , Rory , the list is long. There is no cause and effect correlation there.

[JAMH03]

> @bladehunter said:

>

>

> Serious question . Where is the line for ceasing to care about outcome ? Is it on a whole round. Or does it also include shot to shot ? If we don’t care where a shot goes , how do we learn to execute and focus on hitting that shot ? I struggle with knowing how to parse all that up into compartments.

 

I think the idea is to control everything you CAN control and then let it go.

 

So you practice your tail off with block/technical practice

Then work on your routine.

While playing you concentrate on fully following your routine executing it as well as you can.

"Take dead aim"

Then repeat.

Of course you care about how the event or round goes. Just what I heard

 

 

 

 

[JAMH03]

 

>

> “If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same…”

>

 

Absolutely agree!

 

At the same time I think you have patronized Jordan's efforts. Though I personally don't like many of his biggest fans I have nothing but the highest respect for him, how he's conducted himself and represented his family. Then you add to that Jordan has already done it on the golf course winning multiple majors. I have no problems with him personally.

 

 

 

 

[bullie76]

He made a very good comeback on the back side. I still think it goes back to his mental side of the game. He started out the day thinking he could win and probably had nerves knowing he hadn't completed the job in a while. Then he blows up early and takes himself out of contention and the winning nerves are gone. He relaxed and just played golf. Somehow he has to relax when in contention. That is where a sports shrink might help him. I bet he has a decent round today as there is no pressure to win.

[Cool Runnings]

Virtually all the top pros out there can hit the same shots as each other when pressure is minimal. The separation of the best from the rest comes when pressure is applied. Pressure is nothing but the meaning a player attaches to the outcome. Jordan is currently lost in this attachment / pressure dynamic and this is rooted in the mind.

> @bullie76 said:

> He made a very good comeback on the back side. I still think it goes back to his mental side of the game. He started out the day thinking he could win and probably had nerves knowing he hadn't completed the job in a while. Then he blows up early and takes himself out of contention and the winning nerves are gone. He relaxed and just played golf. Somehow he has to relax when in contention. That is where a sports shrink might help him. I bet he has a decent round today as there is no pressure to win.

 

 

[rattlergolfer]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @rattlergolfer said:

> > > @Wildwing55 said:

> > > It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

> > I absolutely agree with this. Plus, working on changes after your are successful.

>

> No such thing as too much success. Nor too early. That’s total nonsense.

>

> Good job naming a player nobody has ever heard of. Lol

> How many great players of great sport won big out of the gate ? Many. The idea that used to be “ you had to pay your dues on tour” was an excuse for the weak. Jack didn’t. Palmer didn’t. Player didn’t. They won. Early and often. Phil won as an am. Tiger , Rory , the list is long. There is no cause and effect correlation there.

 

There is nothing wrong with early success. The question is .... What do you do once you have had it? Tiger keep winning. Phil keep winning. Rory keep winning. However, with each of them ... changes for whatever reason did occur. Tiger knees, Phil mind, Rory club changes.

Jordan IMO had no reason to change things. He was be far the best mid-iron player during his "prime". So what he had longer shots into the green. He made it work.

 

But he decided to chase more yardage with the Driver. Then his putting. I mean ... if it was working. Why change?

 

Note: I didn't list the unknown player.

[Cool Runnings]

Jordan when younger began winning early with very little pressure as compared to today. In his early years there was very minimal expectation (which is basically pressure) internally & externally as he was so young and new on tour. Jordan was able to ride his early success/winning streak by not really thinking about too much (about the why’s / how’s), just riding the crest of the wave he was on all while his confidence grew with this success. But there comes a point when all this early success now increases all the external & internal expectations, which is pressure. Mix that with the natural flow of sports when things technically don’t come as easy as they once used to, he’s now having to question everything (these why’s / how’s that once just happened) and it’s becoming confusing, frustrating and suffocating for him - this is essentially what has/is happening with Spieth.

 

There’s more but this is his dynamic in a nutshell.

[rattlergolfer]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> Jordan when younger began winning early with very little pressure as compared to today. In his early years there was very minimal expectation (which is basically pressure) internally & externally as he was so young and new on tour. Jordan was able to ride his early success/winning streak by not really thinking about too much (about the why’s / how’s), just riding the crest of the wave he was on all while his confidence grew with this success. But there comes a point when all this early success now increases all the external & internal expectations, which is pressure. Mix that with the natural flow of sports when things technically don’t come as easy as they once used to, he’s now having to question everything (these why’s / how’s that once just happened) and it’s becoming confusing, frustrating and suffocating for him - this is essentially what has/is happening with Spieth.

>

> There’s more but this is his dynamic in a nutshell.

 

And we know pressure bust pipe. He has to figure it out or .... He will be commentating like Justin Leonard before 50.

[rattlergolfer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @Wildwing55 said:

> > It's called a bit too much success too early. Not the same, but look up Marty Fleckman.

>

> You're right. Not the same. Hence, no reason whatsoever to look Marty Fleckman.

>

> If we're going to look someone up for comparison, let's find someone who has won 3 majors and has double digit wins.

 

He might follow his fellow Dallas, Texas, UT Grad, Major Winner, namesake .....

 

JUSTIN LEONARD !!!

[North Texas]

People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

 

 

[rattlergolfer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

>

>

I heard many of times on Golf Channel that he was working on swing changes to gain yardage off the tee.

 

[North Texas]

> @rattlergolfer said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

> >

> >

> I heard many of times on Golf Channel that he was working on swing changes to gain yardage off the tee.

>

 

From 2015 to 2018 his driving distance did go up by about 8 yards and pretty much all the other vital driving stats remained virtually the same. So it doesn't appear that his added distance really affected him adversely. Unless they think the problems associated with this so-called chase for distance all of sudden drastically manifested themselves in 2019.

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

>

>

I’ve never heard it from a source that cited a single shred of fact either. And I doubt you find anyone who follows golf closer than me.

 

[rattlergolfer]

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

> >

> >

> I’ve never heard it from a source that cited a single shred of fact either. And I doubt you find anyone who follows golf closer than me.

>

 

You are correct. I do not see any articles citing his swing changes for distance. However, there are articles duringnhis prime where he is citied tweaking his swing.

Both of these articles he notes his struggles ... This was 2015 - 2016

 

[rattlergolfer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

>

>

Here is another article where is documents his swing changes.

 

 

[straightshot7]

> @"North Texas" said:

> People keep saying that Jordan started chasing more distance with the driver and I keep asking what is the basis for thinking that. So far, unless I missed it, no one has provided any concrete information supporting this thought. And exactly when did this supposed chase for distance start causing problems for him as everyone seems to be implying happened?

>

>

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/golf-faldo-spieth-idUKL3N13C55520151118

 

"Six-times major winner Nick Faldo has sent Jordan Spieth a ‘careful what you wish for’ message **after the world number one said he wanted to try and gain an extra five to 10 yards on his driving distance next year.**

 

Spieth rocketed to the top of the rankings with a spectacular run of form this season that included maiden major championship victories at the U.S. Masters and the U.S. Open.

 

The 22-year-old American, however, is not renowned for his long hitting and **he told reporters at the WGC-HSBC Champions event in Shanghai earlier this month that he would like to add some distance off the tee.**" (Nov. 18th, 2015)

 

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/400714/why-jordan-spieth-didnt-win-the-2016-fedex-cup/

 

"Everyone has an off week, but it is my personal theory that Spieth’s long game has suffered ever since he committed to hitting the ball farther. At the end of last season, he abandoned the extended, square-face follow through that featured the chicken wing left elbow for a quicker release and rotation of the club head. The result is greater club head speed and distance, but also reduced accuracy and inconsistency." (Sept. 28th, 2016)

 

---------

 

I'm not saying this is the reason for Spieth's struggles, but apparently he did tell reporters in November 2015 that he was going to try to gain an extra 5-10 yards.

[bladehunter]

First article linked is nothing but nick faldo.

 

Second one says a lot. But cites no proof that he’s actually trying to hit it farther. The chicken wing isn’t gone today. So ? Who knows if it’s true or not.