Thoughts on Playing in the UK

[SugarPenguin]

I am British and a member at a very tricky Heathland course in the UK. In a few weeks time (if it ever stops raining) the fairways will be yellow, greens will be like concrete and the rough in the trees / gorse will be well above knee deep. Our course is tight and unforgiving off the tee and if you find yourself above the hole then any two putt is welcome. Its pretty brutal but a really true test and so beautifully frustrating and rewarding at the same time. I play off 8 and in our medals the CSS is usually a 2 over 74 and a couple under nett wins. If I go play other more 'American Style' open courses I tend to fair MUCH better.

 

I know most people on here are from North America and I have always wondered how you guys who have played in the UK find the courses over here. So basically - what do you all think?

Do you think its more difficult. easier, poor quality fairways?

Interested in hearing your opinions / experiences and where you have played.

[Aviador Naval]

I played a couple of true links courses in Scotland a while back. Distance was fair, fairways firm but in good shape, greens small-medium and firm, gorse in full bloom, wind strong, a few true pot bunkers. I loved it.

 

I enjoyed having the low option approaching and around the greens. Would have preferred slightly larger greens in some cases - usually associated with being straight downwind.

 

I’ve also played “links style” courses in other coastal areas. I tend to prefer these as they call for more imagination than typical US layouts.

 

While it’s nice to play a well manicured botanical garden type course, I’m okay with a little more ‘au natural’ so long as the fairway isn’t a hard pan patchy goat pen.

[P.E.]

I usually play in the fall (September) in the Ascot/Bracknell area along with the Dartmouth area.

The different course designs require you to think your way around and not just play target golf.

Hitting shots into greens that allow you to run your ball up is really enjoyable because they demand some creativity.

The most difficult course I have played is Saunton Golf Club. Knee high fescue and a lot of blind shots.

The other aspect of a lot of courses I have played are hidden drainage areas bisecting fairways which is an interesting challenge.

All in all though a great experience.

[Golfingfanatic]

I love playing in the UK. You can hit so many more shots and use the ground a lot more. The one thing I'll say though is this: I much prefer to play these types of courses with a caddy or someone who knows the course well. Losing balls after good shots just because you didn't know/see there was a giant gorse bush behind this dune is not a lot fun.

 

[jonnymc44]

> @SugarPenguin said:

> I am British and a member at a very tricky Heathland course in the UK. In a few weeks time (if it ever stops raining) the fairways will be yellow, greens will be like concrete and the rough in the trees / gorse will be well above knee deep. Our course is tight and unforgiving off the tee and if you find yourself above the hole then any two putt is welcome. Its pretty brutal but a really true test and so beautifully frustrating and rewarding at the same time. I play off 8 and in our medals the CSS is usually a 2 over 74 and a couple under nett wins. If I go play other more 'American Style' open courses I tend to fair MUCH better.

>

> I know most people on here are from North America and I have always wondered how you guys who have played in the UK find the courses over here. So basically - what do you all think?

> Do you think its more difficult. easier, poor quality fairways?

> Interested in hearing your opinions / experiences and where you have played.

 

Where do you play? Course must be pretty difficult for CSS of 74. You don't tend to see many of those unless they are really tough courses. I played at Southerness a few years ago, par 69, SSS 73- now that was tough! Our CSS tends to hover around 72, and for the first time I have ever seen it was 71 two weekends ago. I came in with a 64 nett off 8 and won Captain's Day.

Even from the courses I've played in UK, have never played in US, I can score significantly better when playing away than at my home course. I've shot +6 at Royal Birkdale, +3 at Notts Hollinwell, level par at Silloth to name a few. Greens tend to be bigger than at my home course, and fairways are a little wider. Silloth doesn't count as that probably the toughest driving course I've played as it was set up for an amateur championship a few years ago with incredibly narrow fairways and knee-high rough.

Maybe I just play a little more defensive having not played at the course before, which doesn't get me in as much trouble, or just relish the challenge and bring my top game.

[Aviador Naval]

Forgot to mention above that the courses I played were a bit tougher than a scorecard or casual look might suggest due to the undulating terrain. It’s amazing how little actual deviation from flat/level is required to mess with alignment, trajectory, and solid contact. We have the obvious uphill/downhill that comes with landscape but I’ve not played many courses in the US in which the fairway flows like a piece of al dente lasagna.

[SugarPenguin]

> @jonnymc44 said:

> > @SugarPenguin said:

> > I am British and a member at a very tricky Heathland course in the UK. In a few weeks time (if it ever stops raining) the fairways will be yellow, greens will be like concrete and the rough in the trees / gorse will be well above knee deep. Our course is tight and unforgiving off the tee and if you find yourself above the hole then any two putt is welcome. Its pretty brutal but a really true test and so beautifully frustrating and rewarding at the same time. I play off 8 and in our medals the CSS is usually a 2 over 74 and a couple under nett wins. If I go play other more 'American Style' open courses I tend to fair MUCH better.

> >

> > I know most people on here are from North America and I have always wondered how you guys who have played in the UK find the courses over here. So basically - what do you all think?

> > Do you think its more difficult. easier, poor quality fairways?

> > Interested in hearing your opinions / experiences and where you have played.

>

> Where do you play? Course must be pretty difficult for CSS of 74. You don't tend to see many of those unless they are really tough courses. I played at Southerness a few years ago, par 69, SSS 73- now that was tough! Our CSS tends to hover around 72, and for the first time I have ever seen it was 71 two weekends ago. I came in with a 64 nett off 8 and won Captain's Day.

> Even from the courses I've played in UK, have never played in US, I can score significantly better when playing away than at my home course. I've shot +6 at Royal Birkdale, +3 at Notts Hollinwell, level par at Silloth to name a few. Greens tend to be bigger than at my home course, and fairways are a little wider. Silloth doesn't count as that probably the toughest driving course I've played as it was set up for an amateur championship a few years ago with incredibly narrow fairways and knee-high rough.

> Maybe I just play a little more defensive having not played at the course before, which doesn't get me in as much trouble, or just relish the challenge and bring my top game.

 

So I play at Worksop GC which is Lee Westwood's course he was a member at as a Junior (and Mark Foster). Pretty challenging. Love Birkdale I got round in +8, much easier test I felt.

 

Good to hear some peoples experiences. We do not really have many caddies apart at the well known courses.

Another thing is carts/buggies. I know its a big thing in the states but I dont feel like you have played a golf course until you have walked it.

[aenemated]

I just got back from my first trip to the UK - a week in St. Andrews.

 

Played the New Course my first day and after a not-so-great 85, I texted my buddy I normally play with to say "Dude, it's a totally different game here from 100 yards in." Because I'm a jackass, I didn't really listen to my caddy enough and played more or less my normal game - 110 to the pin? Fly it there ... and watch it roll 40 feet away. When I played the Old Course the next day, I asked for the same caddie - he was a real great guy - and made myself play every shot as he said. It also strangely helped that the weather was set up for some legit links golf ... cold, rain and wind. I was physically incapable of making a "full" swing due to being so cold and wet. Lost a couple drives to the right (terrible for the Old Course, as you likely know) thanks to my club practically slipping out of my hand; it was all I could do for it to not go flying away on my backswing. But thanks to this, I was playing "proper," and managed an 80 I'm pretty proud of, considering the conditions and a lot of missed putts.

 

Conditions at Carnoustie were gorgeous and I had one of my best rounds of ball-striking I've ever had. I was taking the feel from the day before - shortening my swing and making sure to power through - and my 81 doesn't remotely reflect how well I played. I went out in 38 and my delightful caddie said to me "You ought to be no worse than 2 under, if only you could make a putt." Found the burns a couple times on the back for a not-so great 43

 

My putting never even remotely showed up and the only birdies I managed were when I got it within a few feet. The greens are simply much slower than what I'm accustomed to so my pace was never on. I figure with more time, I could have dialed it in.

 

So to answer your question ... I absolutely loved it in every way. The conditions of all courses were great - more firm than what I'm used to but well maintained. And I really, really loved the challenge.

 

While it was my first true links golf experience, I've always loved the links style courses in the US I've played. So maybe my game just rose to the occasion - or maybe, and this is what *I* believe - playing the Old Course in those conditions changed my game in a very good way. My best round of the year in terms of differential was at objectively one of the hardest courses in Scotland. If a few 15 footers had rolled in - and more than a few were close - I'd have been looking at a round in the mid 70s.

 

Hoping to get back to good ol' Destroyer this weekend and just ... give it a similar effort. Keep my swing compact, play "smarter" and not try to be a hero.

 

... and start saving up for my trip back.

[Argonne69]

I'd kill for firm and fast. We've had record rain this spring, and it's all plugged or mud balls. I spent a week in St Andrews in late April, and it was a grand time. 'Love the need for creativity around the greens, rather than the straightforward aerial game we generally play in the U.S.

[North Butte]

For me it is easier to find courses of the type I like (firm and fast, walking friendly, etc.) when vacationing in England, Scotland and Wales than it is back home. Just sooooo many USA courses, especially in areas I might vacation, are either overwatered or require golf carts or both. And almost always the sort of UK courses I've played have a better pace of play than typical in USA.

 

That said, my limited travel has been targeted at a small minority of UK courses. Mostly links or heathland or downland type terrain, mostly private club courses. I'm sure there are plenty of boggy, rough and trees and water-hazard strewn courses all over the UK that I'll never be bothered to even see, much less play.

[jvincent]

> @SugarPenguin said:

> I know most people on here are from North America and I have always wondered how you guys who have played in the UK find the courses over here. So basically - what do you all think?

> Do you think its more difficult. easier, poor quality fairways?

> Interested in hearing your opinions / experiences and where you have played.

 

For most of us golf in the UK is the only time we ever get to play true links style golf, i.e. firm, fast, penal bunkers.

 

A lot of what they call links courses over hear are really just parkland courses without trees that have soft fairways, etc. There are a few exceptions with Bandon Dunes being the most famous. For most first timers it is harder initially because we are used to playing the ball in the air and it's a big adjustment. If you've been over a couple of time then it get's easier.

 

As far as course conditions go we mostly come over to play the big name courses so conditions are usually pretty good. We usually make a point of playing some less known more "local" courses and I haven't found the conditions to be bad.

[duffer987]

Seems like a really specific example, followed by a broad generalization? ;)

'Tough' courses are tough; 'easy' courses are easy. The style of course can impact that, but the design more so.

North American golfers travelling to the UK/Ireland (speaking of broad generalizations) are coming for what they cannot largely get at home: links and heathland... though mainly links. For the playing experience of playing a 'ground game' and factoring in the weather, dealing with classic design elements, simply being able to choose from hundreds of appealing courses that match or surpass our daily courses, and of the essence of where the game originated from.

Course conditions, club rules, etc... are taken as they come.

When I used to live in England, I wasn't playing much/at all and would occasionally play with mates at some mediocre greater London courses that would be bogs for good stretches of the year. No one crossing the pond is searching those out, lol.

[andrue]

> @"North Butte" said:

> That said, my limited travel has been targeted at a small minority of UK courses. Mostly links or heathland or downland type terrain, mostly private club courses. I'm sure there are plenty of boggy, rough and trees and water-hazard strewn courses all over the UK that I'll never be bothered to even see, much less play.

 

I don't know about that. Golf course density in the UK has probably killed off the bad ones. Unless you live in the highlands of Scotland you probably have a choice of a dozen clubs or more within reasonable driving distance. And most clubs in the UK are not exclusive like so many in the US. Most clubs are vying for visitors as a major part of their income stream. That keeps the quality pretty high. There are a couple around me that have an above average amount of water but it typically only comes into play on four or five holes and is usually a risk v reward hole where there is almost always a sensible way to play the hole.

 

Some courses can become a bit muddy over winter and in to early spring but most have dried out by the end of spring.

 

A lot of it depends where you visit. Although the UK is a small country there's quite a variation in weather patterns from west to east and especially north to south. Most of our weather comes in from the Atlantic so its wetter in the west and drier (even arid) in the east. It's also noticeably colder the further north you go. In the 'greater south east' where most of the population of England lives most courses are fully open all year around with - perhaps - a carry only rule for a couple of weeks at the end of winter.

 

Up north mud may be more of a problem..but then it's grim up north :)

[Hawkeye77]

Have only played links courses and that was the attraction for me. Loved the turf on pretty much every course we played, loved the layouts and the variety of situations, loved walking, loved being by the sea, loved the designs. Going back this summer and only playing links courses. Not opposed to trying others, but with a limited time and other activities as well, that's what I'm looking to play. If I was there a month, I'd certainly try out some inland and/or non-links courses and different kinds of golf.

[elwhippy]

What I find is a little sad is so many US, Canadian and Asian players come to the UK and Ireland and play about 8 links courses. We have hundreds of quality courses that offer a superb test. Sugar Penguin has Lindrick, Coxmoor, Sherwood Forest and the masterpiece that is Notts within a few miles. All tough, well maintained and enjoyable heathland / inland courses that are worth a trip on their own merit. Same with Scotland....Downfield, Mortonhall, Lanark, Ladybank….great inland tracks that are missed by those only playing at the coast. St Andrews OId and New are worth it...the other courses I wouldn't even bother...Crail, Scotscraig, Elie and Lundin are way superior to the lesser St Andrew's courses.

[SugarPenguin]

> @elwhippy said:

> What I find is a little sad is so many US, Canadian and Asian players come to the UK and Ireland and play about 8 links courses. We have hundreds of quality courses that offer a superb test. Sugar Penguin has Lindrick, Coxmoor, Sherwood Forest and the masterpiece that is Notts within a few miles. All tough, well maintained and enjoyable heathland / inland courses that are worth a trip on their own merit. Same with Scotland....Downfield, Mortonhall, Lanark, Ladybank….great inland tracks that are missed by those only playing at the coast. St Andrews OId and New are worth it...the other courses I wouldn't even bother...Crail, Scotscraig, Elie and Lundin are way superior to the lesser St Andrew's courses.

 

Absolutely. The money you could save and play on equally well maintained courses must be astounding.

[munichop]

I just returned from a Scotland trip in May. I played North Berwick, Dunbar and The New Course. The first 2 rounds I played with a caddie. I putted poorly at North Berwick, hit it great tee to green. The inconsistent speed of the greens create scoring problems for me. The greens are municipal in terms of pace and condition. To me that is the nature of the courses and the grasses. Once you accept that you can a have a lot of fun. I switched putters for Dunbar and the New Course and putted much better. Each round I hit 13-14 greens- only broke par at Dunbar. Shot 6 over at North Berwick, 2 over with 3 sad bogies to finish at the New Course. To me golf in Scotland gives the player more choices for each shot. It is like 3D billards- wind, trajectory, bounce, shot shape are all factors to consider. Shots around the green offer all kinds of choices. I had a great time and the caddies are the best. The Himalayas (the mini golf at St. Andrews) are great fun even though my wife beat me in our rematch. I hope to play again some day. Few things are as satisfying as a well struck shot on tight links turf- it has a resonance unlike other shots.

[duffer987]

> @SugarPenguin said:

> > @elwhippy said:

> > What I find is a little sad is so many US, Canadian and Asian players come to the UK and Ireland and play about 8 links courses. We have hundreds of quality courses that offer a superb test. Sugar Penguin has Lindrick, Coxmoor, Sherwood Forest and the masterpiece that is Notts within a few miles. All tough, well maintained and enjoyable heathland / inland courses that are worth a trip on their own merit. Same with Scotland....Downfield, Mortonhall, Lanark, Ladybank….great inland tracks that are missed by those only playing at the coast. St Andrews OId and New are worth it...the other courses I wouldn't even bother...Crail, Scotscraig, Elie and Lundin are way superior to the lesser St Andrew's courses.

>

> Absolutely. The money you could save and play on equally well maintained courses must be astounding.

 

Easy enough said, but if a group of 8 are making a 'once in a lifetime' trip, there's nothing wrong with wanting to go around the big names. They are hardly bad courses your TOCs, Prestwicks, Troons, Kingsbarns, etc... and TBF a lot of them are set up to handle the coach hires rocking up at the entrance better than some of those other less promoted tracks.

[Hawkeye77]

I wouldn't describe the greens at Royal Dornoch or The New Course "municipal in terms of pace and condition" - at least not any muni I've ever played, but agree they are fun. Pretty well maintained, BTW.

[North Butte]

Back home in the Land Of Bermuda, there's no such thing as a smooth and true-rolling green that isn't also fairly fast. If you leave Bermuda grass long enough to Stimp at less than 9 or 10 it tends to get grainy and inconsistent.

 

After a couple trips to UK I finally got used to putting on greens that could be as absolutely perfectly conditioned as you could ever want, smooth and true rolling, but Stimping at maybe 7 or so. It's a strange combination to me because I don't see it at home but once you adjust, boy you can make some putts.

[LeftDaddy]

I’m traveling to England, Ireland and Scotland in July (with my wife and kids)! Going to Wimbledon and then the Open. In between I plan to hit the Old Course and maybe one or two others (Kingsbarns, RCD?). I’d love any suggestions from those of you familiar with the courses there.

 

I’ll be staying near London for a week or so, will then head north toward Edinburgh and stay a few days. Will then make my way to Portrush and finally Dublin (and I’m sure a few other stops in between).

[duffer987]

^Driving? Flying? Train?

There are loads of courses in and around where you are staying and along your travels... although I am assuming you cannot tell the wife and kids to wait in the car, while you go get 18 holes in on the way up to Edi.

[El Gringo]

One of the most remarkable aspects of UK golf is the diversity of designs and settings. There are many trips that can be taken to suit most any budget and preference. Even the areas which traditionally are not well known for golf have some gems, and in some cases brilliant courses. Maybe five years after to moving to the UK I started to lose some interest in the big name courses and focus more on the so-called 2nd/3rd tier courses. As more time goes by, I remain impressed at how deep the bench is in the UK and most especially England. It only takes a slight change of attitude to see the positives of these courses. So by all means, play the big guns, but take time for the gems. Sometimes, they are just as good as big guns, but may lack grandeur in terms of setting, history or conditioning. Playing the 2nd/3rd tier courses is easier if an area is explored rather than jumping from big gun to big gun.

 

Ciao

[LeftDaddy]

> @duffer987 said:

> ^Driving? Flying? Train?

> There are loads of courses in and around where you are staying and along your travels... although I am assuming you cannot tell the wife and kids to wait in the car, while you go get 18 holes in on the way up to Edi.

 

Honestly still figuring all of that out. It is going to be a plains, trains and automobiles type trip. I’m assuming I’ll take trains between countries, for example. And I figured Edinburgh was a good base for the wife and kids while I go play at St Andrews and Kingsbarns.

 

[Argonne69]

> @"El Gringo" said:

> One of the most remarkable aspects of UK golf is the diversity of designs and settings. There are many trips that can be taken to suit most any budget and preference. Even the areas which traditionally are not well known for golf have some gems, and in some cases brilliant courses. Maybe five years after to moving to the UK I started to lose some interest in the big name courses and focus more on the so-called 2nd/3rd tier courses. As more time goes by, I remain impressed at how deep the bench is in the UK and most especially England. It only takes a slight change of attitude to see the positives of these courses. So by all means, play the big guns, but take time for the gems. Sometimes, they are just as good as big guns, but may lack grandeur in terms of setting, history or conditioning. Playing the 2nd/3rd tier courses is easier if an area is explored rather than jumping from big gun to big gun.

>

> Ciao

 

I don't doubt it. However, the U.S. has a ton of wonderful parkland, prairie-style, and ocean-side courses that aren't links courses. What we lack are true links courses. If one is going to make a trip across the pond, it's going to be for the links courses.

[North Butte]

I suppose there might be courses somewhere in USA that have similar turf and design features to (and of the quality of) Walton Heath, Ganton, Prestbury, Delamere Forest, Notts or some of the other inland courses I've loved in England. But I'm not sure a USA golfer could put together an itinerary of 3 or 4 courses like that within a couple hours driving time of each other and then actually access them without pretty high-end connections.

 

I'm assuming that's what the Gringo means by "2nd/3rd tier" courses. Ones that not 1 American golfer in 100 has ever heard of but, once you've played them, you realize they are just a tiny notch below the Dornochs and Turnberrys of the headhunter lists.

[tiderider]

I’m for playing golf in the U.K. ...

 

Seriousness aside, England is deeper than Ireland by a fair stretch, and probably as deep as Scotland ... those inland heathland/heather courses look wonderful and would be very different from the US, esp since they are open to the public somewhat ...

[duffer987]

> @"North Butte" said:

> I suppose there might be courses somewhere in USA that have similar turf and design features to (and of the quality of) Walton Heath, Ganton, Prestbury, Delamere Forest, Notts or some of the other inland courses I've loved in England. But I'm not sure a USA golfer could put together an itinerary of 3 or 4 courses like that within a couple hours driving time of each other and then actually access them without pretty high-end connections.

>

> I'm assuming that's what the Gringo means by "2nd/3rd tier" courses. Ones that not 1 American golfer in 100 has ever heard of but, once you've played them, you realize they are just a tiny notch below the Dornochs and Turnberrys of the headhunter lists.

 

IMHO those aren't 2nd tier/3rd tier... those are very much 1st tier, just not as well known.

And they are all easily accessible, assuming their comps calendar is clear and it's on a visitor day, I've had no problems playing those (except Prestbury not got there yet).

Would think 2nd/3rd tier would be say Sherwood Forest, Coxmoor, and Worksop vs 1st tier Holinwell - to use examples mentioned above.

Of course if we are tiering them based on their North American golfing audience Q score, then sure.

[El Gringo]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @"El Gringo" said:

> > One of the most remarkable aspects of UK golf is the diversity of designs and settings. There are many trips that can be taken to suit most any budget and preference. Even the areas which traditionally are not well known for golf have some gems, and in some cases brilliant courses. Maybe five years after to moving to the UK I started to lose some interest in the big name courses and focus more on the so-called 2nd/3rd tier courses. As more time goes by, I remain impressed at how deep the bench is in the UK and most especially England. It only takes a slight change of attitude to see the positives of these courses. So by all means, play the big guns, but take time for the gems. Sometimes, they are just as good as big guns, but may lack grandeur in terms of setting, history or conditioning. Playing the 2nd/3rd tier courses is easier if an area is explored rather than jumping from big gun to big gun.

> >

> > Ciao

>

> I don't doubt it. However, the U.S. has a ton of wonderful parkland, prairie-style, and ocean-side courses that aren't links courses. What we lack are true links courses. If one is going to make a trip across the pond, it's going to be for the links courses.

 

The attractive styles of terrain and turf in the UK include much more than links. Heathland, downland and moorland all provide excellent examples high quality design the types of which if existing in the US are very rare. Additionally, to have the nearly unique varieties of courses in such close proximity is a huge boon for anyone interested in golf travel. For sure, golf in the UK is far more than links. It just takes a bit of trust to wander inland. Start with big names such as Sunningdale, Walton Heath, etc then it becomes easier to trust that quality does exist beyond links. More than half of my favourite GB&I courses are not links!

 

Ciao

[duffer987]

> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > One of the most remarkable aspects of UK golf is the diversity of designs and settings. There are many trips that can be taken to suit most any budget and preference. Even the areas which traditionally are not well known for golf have some gems, and in some cases brilliant courses. Maybe five years after to moving to the UK I started to lose some interest in the big name courses and focus more on the so-called 2nd/3rd tier courses. As more time goes by, I remain impressed at how deep the bench is in the UK and most especially England. It only takes a slight change of attitude to see the positives of these courses. So by all means, play the big guns, but take time for the gems. Sometimes, they are just as good as big guns, but may lack grandeur in terms of setting, history or conditioning. Playing the 2nd/3rd tier courses is easier if an area is explored rather than jumping from big gun to big gun.

> > >

> > > Ciao

> >

> > I don't doubt it. However, the U.S. has a ton of wonderful parkland, prairie-style, and ocean-side courses that aren't links courses. What we lack are true links courses. If one is going to make a trip across the pond, it's going to be for the links courses.

>

> The attractive styles of terrain and turf in the UK include much more than links. Heathland, downland and moorland all provide excellent examples high quality design the types of which if existing in the US are very rare. Additionally, to have the nearly unique varieties of courses in such close proximity is a huge boon for anyone interested in golf travel. For sure, golf in the UK is far more than links. It just takes a bit of trust to wander inland. Start with big names such as Sunningdale, Walton Heath, etc then it becomes easier to trust that quality does exist beyond links. More than half of my favourite GB&I courses are not links!

>

> Ciao

 

Agreed. It's actually easier for me to play links golf in North America, than something that approximates heathland and downland courses, as I don't have access to the US East Coast privates.

Bandon is "just" (granted it's 8.5hrs of just) up Hwy 1, whereas apart from Yale I've not played anything similar to places like Walton Heath, West Sussex, Woodhall Spa, etc...