Will 15 clubs or more help you lower your score?

[Radeon962]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Radeon962 said:

> > When I carry my bag, I take out every other iron and find I shoot similar scores. Side benefit is that I learn to hit more shots with the clubs i carry.

> >

> Just curious, what do you usually shoot around?

>

> My belief is that for the mid/high handicap playing with fewer clubs doesn't matter much, as it doesn't make a difference if you pulled 7 iron or 8 iron and missed the centre (or the path was screwed up, etc).

>

> Better players can arguably hit decent shots with any clubs, although there best shots may not be quite as good if they don't have the best tools for the situation. I mean a pro could beat most of us with 6 clubs but no one would expect them to tee it up at the Open with less than a full bag.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Radeon962 said:

> > When I carry my bag, I take out every other iron and find I shoot similar scores. Side benefit is that I learn to hit more shots with the clubs i carry.

> >

> Just curious, what do you usually shoot around?

>

> My belief is that for the mid/high handicap playing with fewer clubs doesn't matter much, as it doesn't make a difference if you pulled 7 iron or 8 iron and missed the centre (or the path was screwed up, etc).

>

> Better players can arguably hit decent shots with any clubs, although there best shots may not be quite as good if they don't have the best tools for the situation. I mean a pro could beat most of us with 6 clubs but no one would expect them to tee it up at the Open with less than a full bag.

 

74 this past Saturday which is a great round for me. Putting was better than usual for the round. Typically high 70's to low 80's.

 

 

[jll62]

Depends on the player, but I believe I'd shoot marginally lower scores if I could carry more clubs. The change wouldn't be dramatic, however.

 

I already change clubs at both ends of the bag depending upon course setup prior to tournaments (e.g., UDI vs hybrid, etc). If we could carry more than 14 clubs, I'd be able to carry both and would also change the gapping in my wedges to carry more.

[sdandrea]

8 clubs works......

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

[North Butte]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

 

Dude, there has been ZERO interest expressed by USGA in making any change to the number of clubs allowed under the Rules. And all the whining by self-styled "purists" is directed at wanting USGA to reduce the number.

 

I don't think you need to stay awake at night worried that the Rules makers are going to start allowing 20+ clubs.

[PouncePony]

I have a fairly typical bag setup (Driver, 3W, 5W, 3 hybrid, 4 hybrid, 5i-GW, wedge). I'm sure I could pull a couple of clubs and not be very affected. But, I wouldn't mind adding a 4 iron for punch shots and long shots into the wind.

 

Note to self - update club details in signature block.

[PorkChopExpress]

60, 54, pw, 8, 6, 4 (or 9,7,5)

hybrid, driver, putter

9 clubs and I score better than with a whole bag lol. Plus it's easier on the back when carrying

[Pepperturbo]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

>

> Dude, there has been ZERO interest expressed by USGA in making any change to the number of clubs allowed under the Rules. And all the whining by self-styled "purists" is directed at wanting USGA to reduce the number.

>

> I don't think you need to stay awake at night worried that the Rules makers are going to start allowing 20+ clubs.

 

Zero interest... yeah right, LOL. I am sure USGA and R&A use Golfwrx as a Rules barometer. I never expected them to give-in to putting with the pin in cup or the stupid knee drop rule, yet they did. Neither improved POP. The one rule adjustment I am happy about it the modified Green book use. No, I am not going to lose sleep over those changes because I don't abide by them unless playing a tournament that says I must.

[PorkChopExpress]

> @Myherobobhope said:

> > @Joelsim said:

> > > @Justsomeguy said:

> > > I like to play 15 wedges. 49-64*. Really covers the gaps when I need to hit the ball 82 yards instead of 83. I can just use my standard 3/8 swing instead of having to resort to a 5/16.

> >

> > What about bounce options?

> >

> >

>

> Can you imagine the pace of play nightmare as some guy sorts between 5 different bounce options to flub it and then start all over? Nightmare.

 

It'd be awesome!!!

Just like watching the folks waiting for the green 260yds out. Only to flub it 20 yds. Then go back to the golf cart, then pull out their 240 yd club. Then watch them pure it ... 150 yds into the trees ... and we digress ... lol

[North Butte]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

> >

> > Dude, there has been ZERO interest expressed by USGA in making any change to the number of clubs allowed under the Rules. And all the whining by self-styled "purists" is directed at wanting USGA to reduce the number.

> >

> > I don't think you need to stay awake at night worried that the Rules makers are going to start allowing 20+ clubs.

>

> Zero interest... yeah right, LOL. I am sure USGA and R&A use Golfwrx as a Rules barometer. I never expected them to give-in to putting with the pin in cup or the stupid knee drop rule, yet they did. Neither improved POP. The one rule adjustment I am happy about it the modified Green book use. No, I am not going to lose sleep over those changes because I don't abide by them unless playing a tournament that says I must.

 

I mean there's literally not one comment, publication or bit of information attributed to anyone affiliated with USGA or R&A saying they are considered allowing more clubs.

 

It's like coming out saying you hate the USGA's plan to make the cup 8" in diameter or allow throwing the ball out of bunkers with no penalty. You are arguing against a non-existent straw man.

[Pepperturbo]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > > Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

> > >

> > > Dude, there has been ZERO interest expressed by USGA in making any change to the number of clubs allowed under the Rules. And all the whining by self-styled "purists" is directed at wanting USGA to reduce the number.

> > >

> > > I don't think you need to stay awake at night worried that the Rules makers are going to start allowing 20+ clubs.

> >

> > Zero interest... yeah right, LOL. I am sure USGA and R&A use Golfwrx as a Rules barometer. I never expected them to give-in to putting with the pin in cup or the stupid knee drop rule, yet they did. Neither improved POP. The one rule adjustment I am happy about it the modified Green book use. No, I am not going to lose sleep over those changes because I don't abide by them unless playing a tournament that says I must.

>

> I mean there's literally not one comment, publication or bit of information attributed to anyone affiliated with USGA or R&A saying they are considered allowing more clubs.

>

> It's like coming out saying you hate the USGA's plan to make the cup 8" in diameter or allow throwing the ball out of bunkers with no penalty. You are arguing against a non-existent straw man.

 

Thanks but your reassurance bucket has holes. I am sure to some extent, the topic has been discussed among other oddball, could never happen, topics. Also, I am confident nobody on this DB is privy to those exchanges, not till it's leaked. I am off to the gym.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

 

Its really sad - pathetic, in fact - that certain people / segments of society don't challenge themselves and want the game to be easier. I hate those people.

 

Now hold my beer while I hit one of the most modern, forgiving drivers on the market.

 

*hard eye roll*

[BermBuster]

> @miles2go said:

> > @Joelsim said:

> > I’d like to be able to take all my clubs, simply as I don’t like leaving them at home, think they’re going to get lonely.

>

>

> Apparently you are not alone with that thought.

> Real pic from my club parking lot.

 

I think I see my long time missing 5 iron.

[RJ_MJ_JJ]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Edaw68 said:

> > I'm also in the little to no effect camp. It's so rare that I have a shot where I think "I wish I had a different club for this" that I can't imagine it having a significant long term score change. The only extra club I think I'd add would be a lefty short iron for trouble shots, but that's also pretty rare. I can only think of one time this year where it would have come in handy, and then it would have only saved 1 stroke, and no guarantee of that stroke either.

> >

> > If the limit was cut down to 12 I don't think it would be much difference either. There's a couple clubs that are used rarely enough I probably wouldn't miss them.

>

> I'm a lefty and I've been carrying 11 or 12 for so long it has occurred to me that grabbing an old righty 8-iron or something from the bargain bin at the local golf store might be a worthwhile use of $5. Well, plus another $5 for a grip. I'll go four or five rounds in a row without ever wishing I had that option and then, boom, it'll happen twice in four holes.

>

> There have been times when I take an unplayable drop from up against a tree and have to drop still in the woods and on pine straw. But with a right-handed club I could have punching it into the fairway and advanced it 50 yards or more. That's worth practically a full shot, right there.

 

Just take your regular 7i, flip that sucker over, put the righty swing on it and toe-punch it in the fairway. You got that shot, fella!

[North Butte]

> @RJ_MJ_JJ said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @Edaw68 said:

> > > I'm also in the little to no effect camp. It's so rare that I have a shot where I think "I wish I had a different club for this" that I can't imagine it having a significant long term score change. The only extra club I think I'd add would be a lefty short iron for trouble shots, but that's also pretty rare. I can only think of one time this year where it would have come in handy, and then it would have only saved 1 stroke, and no guarantee of that stroke either.

> > >

> > > If the limit was cut down to 12 I don't think it would be much difference either. There's a couple clubs that are used rarely enough I probably wouldn't miss them.

> >

> > I'm a lefty and I've been carrying 11 or 12 for so long it has occurred to me that grabbing an old righty 8-iron or something from the bargain bin at the local golf store might be a worthwhile use of $5. Well, plus another $5 for a grip. I'll go four or five rounds in a row without ever wishing I had that option and then, boom, it'll happen twice in four holes.

> >

> > There have been times when I take an unplayable drop from up against a tree and have to drop still in the woods and on pine straw. But with a right-handed club I could have punching it into the fairway and advanced it 50 yards or more. That's worth practically a full shot, right there.

>

> Just take your regular 7i, flip that sucker over, put the righty swing on it and toe-punch it in the fairway. You got that shot, fella!

 

I have actually done that with the 8i a few time and it is amazing how you can really concentrate and punch that sucker straight out of trouble with the toe of the club. Then next time it's an easy chip-out using the face of the same club normally, no complication at all, and I duff it. If this game wasn't fun it would be hard work!

 

This weekend I had a punch-out situation that was freaky. All the room in the world as long as I kept the ball kind of low under some limbs. Easy as could be to punch it about 40 yards and end up around the 100-yard marker. So I took my 5-iron, couple of smooth practice strokes, took careful aim and then it was like I turned into a gorilla and swung the club about 10x as hard as I meant to. Pushed it into a pine tree and it bounced backwards over my head about 50 yards.

 

I was so embarrassed I picked up and told my partners to just finish the hole without me. It was releasing the Incredible Hulk all of a sudden. The thing is, even if I'd have made solid contact I'd have hit it clear through the fairway and miles into the woods on the other side, swinging that hard.

[RobotDoctor]

> @jll62 said:

> Depends on the player, but I believe I'd shoot marginally lower scores if I could carry more clubs. The change wouldn't be dramatic, however.

>

> I already change clubs at both ends of the bag depending upon course setup prior to tournaments (e.g., UDI vs hybrid, etc). If we could carry more than 14 clubs, I'd be able to carry both and would also change the gapping in my wedges to carry more.

 

If a golfer can't score well with 14 clubs then I would think time on the range practicing would be helpful. Having a club for every situation leads to a lack of ingenuity and creativeness. To me that would equate to a loss of feel, something more golfers really need including myself.

[chch3]

When I got my index down to single digits five years ago, I was only carrying 12 clubs.

[RJ_MJ_JJ]

> @miles2go said:

> > @Joelsim said:

> > I’d like to be able to take all my clubs, simply as I don’t like leaving them at home, think they’re going to get lonely.

>

>

> Apparently you are not alone with that thought.

> Real pic from my club parking lot.

 

That's incredible... (I don't know if "incredible" is the right word, but it's certainly something)

[TheInfidel]

Our tour group play a 4 club challenge on the friday of every trip, 3/4 of the last years I've shot one of my lowest rounds of the year, with only 4 clubs. Less indecision, more trust, better tempo. That's my thoughts.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @RobotDoctor said:

> > @jll62 said:

> > Depends on the player, but I believe I'd shoot marginally lower scores if I could carry more clubs. The change wouldn't be dramatic, however.

> >

> > I already change clubs at both ends of the bag depending upon course setup prior to tournaments (e.g., UDI vs hybrid, etc). If we could carry more than 14 clubs, I'd be able to carry both and would also change the gapping in my wedges to carry more.

>

> If a golfer can't score well with 14 clubs then I would think time on the range practicing would be helpful. Having a club for every situation leads to a lack of ingenuity and creativeness. To me that would equate to a loss of feel, something more golfers really need including myself.

 

Yeah, but this is kind-of the problem, this type of thinking. There is no such thing as scoring "well". Golf isn't a binary sport. You don't score "well". You shoot a score. A 70 and a 73 are both "scoring well" but one is better than the other, and when we are talking about adding a club to the bag to go to 15 we're talking in fractions of a stroke. Nobody ever asks you "Hey, what'd you shoot?" and you respond "well".

 

Its dodging the question. Nobody would ever suggest going from 12 to 14 clubs would take twenty strokes off. But having an extra wedge for different shots could very well be an extra up and down every other round, which is half a stroke over the course of a season. And if you have 3 or 4 in one round, that club could really matter. If 1-3 strokes per round don't matter to you, then playing with a full set probably shouldn't.

 

If the goal of golf was to shoot "oh, I don't know, somewhere between 74 and 84" then this comment would make sense. But the goal is optimization (See Note).

 

Note:

Please don't reply to this with some nonsense about how you "don't play for score" or some such. Yes, I know, there are people who don't care about keeping correct score and don't care about it, and more power to them. But this thread is about scoring (its literally in the title) so let's pump the brakes on the "it doesn't matter if you have fun" responses I know are coming in response to this. While fun *is* the point of golf and everyone is different, the point of this thread is score.

[RobotDoctor]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @jll62 said:

> > > Depends on the player, but I believe I'd shoot marginally lower scores if I could carry more clubs. The change wouldn't be dramatic, however.

> > >

> > > I already change clubs at both ends of the bag depending upon course setup prior to tournaments (e.g., UDI vs hybrid, etc). If we could carry more than 14 clubs, I'd be able to carry both and would also change the gapping in my wedges to carry more.

> >

> > If a golfer can't score well with 14 clubs then I would think time on the range practicing would be helpful. Having a club for every situation leads to a lack of ingenuity and creativeness. To me that would equate to a loss of feel, something more golfers really need including myself.

>

> Yeah, but this is kind-of the problem, this type of thinking. There is no such thing as scoring "well". Golf isn't a binary sport. You don't score "well". You shoot a score. A 70 and a 73 are both "scoring well" but one is better than the other, and when we are talking about adding a club to the bag to go to 15 we're talking in fractions of a stroke. Nobody ever asks you "Hey, what'd you shoot?" and you respond "well".

 

Ageed, scoring "well" is a very subjective term. Maybe not what I had meant. I suppose I am meaning executing a shot well. Sure, we could have a bag with 20-25 clubs for nearly every condition we can imagine. Gapping wedges by 2 degrees would certainly account for a variety of shots where most people carry only 3 or 4 wedges (PW through LW). I carry 3 wedges (PW, GW and LW) so my options are a bit more limited. I can hit a low(ish) punch running shot with my 58* LW or hit a regular pitch shot with it or open the blade and really get the ball to fly high. There are three distinct shots here that would require 2 or 3 different wedges. For me I am not certain that more clubs would help me as much as it would hurt. My issues personally are not the number of clubs but the consistency in using what I have now. Playing maybe 3 or 4 rounds a month and practicing (full practice) a couple times isn't producing the consistency I want or could achieve if I played more. I will say, on a side note, thank goodness I have a pretty decent short game because this is saving several strokes a round for me. I have a 80 yard pitching green practice complex about a 6 iron shot across the street from my house. I do take my shag bag over there often and practice my short game. I suppose I am convinced practicing good technique will actually help us improve. :D

[J_Tizzle]

I could see maybe like 16 clubs for me.

 

Add in a 64* wedge for the crazy stuff, then have a 5w/hybrid club and then a driving iron in that 18* range for tee shots.

 

Hell you could have multiple putters (side saddle for short ones, standard for longer putts), a couple drivers ala Phil. You could make a mess of it all if you wanted to, but you'd need bigger bags to get released!

 

[smithy23]

we do a 3 clubs and a putter challenge once a year and you know what i bet ive been within 4 shots of my best round with 14 clubs ! we are a short course but i reckon on most id be within 5 shots of my usual score.

sometimes its just good fun to take a 4 6 8 PW and 56 and putter out an see what happens imo

 

[Pepperturbo]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Thread-topic like this show why I have said, as the rules get more lenient, and they are, for those that don't like to be challenged, they want more and more. Next, rules officials will rethink 14 clubs to appease those that can't do it with 14. Sad, but a certain segment of society is more about feeding the slowest, poor me, can't do it, ship than the fastest can do it, ship. Give'em an inch they take a mile.

>

> Its really sad - pathetic, in fact - that certain people / segments of society don't challenge themselves and want the game to be easier. I hate those people.

>

> Now hold my beer while I hit one of the most modern, forgiving drivers on the market.

>

> *hard eye roll*

 

What I said doesn't require me to play old clubs to make my point valid, as I was referring to people, a segment you apparently align with. But to ease your widdle mind, I have an old set of MacGregor MB that comes out now and again and I still card low-mid-seventies with them and I am almost 70. Insecure people only impress insecure people. Roll your eyes some more. lol

[Pepperturbo]

> @RJ_MJ_JJ said:

> > @miles2go said:

> > > @Joelsim said:

> > > I’d like to be able to take all my clubs, simply as I don’t like leaving them at home, think they’re going to get lonely.

> >

> >

> > Apparently you are not alone with that thought.

> > Real pic from my club parking lot.

>

> That's incredible... (I don't know if "incredible" is the right word, but it's certainly something)

 

"Incredible", nope, just a club ho from Golfwrx that has all Titleist MB clubs in a Titleist tournament bag, dressed like a touring pro and plays to 17. lol

[dlygrisse]

> @sdandrea said:

> 8 clubs works......

>

>

>

>

 

This might be the best WITB of all time....LOL..

I mean you have a Perfect Club...the only thing I question is why go 52-56 on the wedges, is the 52 bent strong? Looks like an Eye2 7 iron and maybe an I3 9 iron?

 

[RJ_MJ_JJ]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @RJ_MJ_JJ said:

> > > @miles2go said:

> > > > @Joelsim said:

> > > > I’d like to be able to take all my clubs, simply as I don’t like leaving them at home, think they’re going to get lonely.

> > >

> > >

> > > Apparently you are not alone with that thought.

> > > Real pic from my club parking lot.

> >

> > That's incredible... (I don't know if "incredible" is the right word, but it's certainly something)

>

> "Incredible", nope, just a club ho from Golfwrx that has all Titleist MB clubs in a Titleist tournament bag, dressed like a touring pro and plays to 17. lol

 

Literal LOL. I constantly look at Washington State Golf Assoc. qualifiers and plan family trips around those tournaments like I'm going to somehow magically compete, let alone actually play... #pipedreams

[Barfolomew]

Whats strange is I dont use all 14 clubs when I play a round...... infact I dont use a handful of them on my home course and have to purposefully play the wrong club to get some work in

[dlygrisse]

I think more people would play better if they bough clubs for "shots" not perfect yardage gaps. Perfect gaps only work well on driving ranges and simulators.

For example, I quit carrying a 4 iron because I was led to believe I should carry a hybrid or high lofted wood. In reality I often like having a club I can punch low into the wind or out of the trees. Some might like a specialty wedge, hybrid, 11 wood, 2nd putter, 2nd driver or driving iron. I could lose 2 of my 4 wedges and probably wouldn't care. I mainly use the PW and the 58*. Would I really miss a 5 or 6 iron?

I like to set up my bag this way.

Driver-must be able to work both ways.

Low lofted fairway, must be able to draw off the tee and fade off the deck

High lofted fairway-must be able to hit high draw off the deck.

long iron- need to be able to punch low, hit in the air off the tee. (thinking of going driving iron here instead of 4 iron)

5-9 I basically use to cover yardages-if I lost a couple of these I could deal with it. Should probably replace the 5 or 6 with a lofted hybrid.

PW-use for chips and a yardage

gap-come with set, don't use that often, should probably replace with a 52

SW-no idea why I carry this, replace with 52.

58- my favorite club.

Putter

 

I tried a 64 but found I could hit every shot it hits with my 58*.

I got a 9 wood I use on occasion.

I have a couple of different 58's I use depending on the conditions.

 

 

 

[stormbringer]

I think 14 is a good number. I would not mind having a low bounce 64 but doubt it would get much use except the occasional flop from tight lie. I may toss the 5 iron and pickup said 64 LB to see if it's worthwhile. I like the fact you have to manage your bag and I sure don't want to see more slow play due to some golfers having to many options.

 

Slow play is a killer for me. I can't even watch it on T.V.