Adam Scott on why driving is no longer a skill in pro golf

[bladehunter]

Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

 

It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

[JD3]

It's beyond the driver why course length is less a factor these days ....the ball and other equipment is so good, 7 iron is the stock shot from 195 for better stronger players. So overall I agree with what he's saying...length in and of itself isn't much of a factor in making a course harder.

[Krt22]

> @bladehunter said:

> Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

>

> It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

 

I've never said it makes zero difference, I'm just saying it's not the only difference and not nearly as significant as some like to think. The entire game has changed, not just the clubs, but the players, their conditioning, their approach, and how they utilize tech to perform at the highest level and get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes. COR has been maxed for years, yet scores still are dropping and this debate gets rehashed over and over. The groves in wedges changed, yet the pros can still zip them back like crazy. People say the ball doesnt spin enough, yet the best pros are the one's who who can control their spin and ball flight

 

Golfwrx posters-No need for a new driver, they are all the same, COR has been the limit for years, I still hit my 910D2 as long as anything new!

 

Also

 

Golfwrx posters-The clubs and ball are too dang long, no skill needed!

[Shilgy]

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > No, we are talking purely about carry. You were the one who made the assertion these lots of guys routinely carry it 330 which just isnt true and you think a few cherry picked shots somehow validates that claim, but it simply does not. Wind and elevation play a big part in those glory shots the network likes to hype up on TV. Not a scattershot at all, I have maintained the same exact positions the entire time (which is backed up by the stats the PGA tour records, trackman data, etc). At this point I am done with the conversation because it's clear you aren't actually driven by data and prefer to stick to your own off-base opinions.

>

> I said a dozen guys could carry 330. And they can. Fact. I said most distance gains compared to decades ago are from equipment. You said it’s due to the environment. That is a scattershot comment that makes no sense.

 

You like touting the idea that Jack could hit it over 300 with persimmon and balata-did you know he hit it over 340 in a PGA driving contest (yes that is sarcasm)- as if it's a good thing. But now that there are many guys inspired by the likes of Jack and Tiger that are pushing boundaries it's a problem?

[Shilgy]

Double post

[Shilgy]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

> >

> > It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

>

> I've never said it makes zero difference, I'm just saying it's not the only difference and not nearly as significant as some like to think. The entire game has changed, not just the clubs, but the players, their conditioning, their approach, and how they utilize tech to perform at the highest level and get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes. COR has been maxed for years, yet scores still are dropping and this debate gets rehashed over and over. The groves in wedges changed, yet the pros can still zip them back like crazy. People say the ball doesnt spin enough, yet the best pros are the one's who who can control their spin and ball flight

>

> Golfwrx posters-No need for a new driver, they are all the same, COR has been the limit for years, I still hit my 910D2 as long as anything new!

>

> Also

>

> Golfwrx posters-The clubs and ball are too dang long, no skill needed!

 

Well said-Blade please direct me to a post, any post on any discussion-that claimed the equipment made zero difference.

Thank you

[JD3]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

> >

> > It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

>

> I've never said it makes zero difference, I'm just saying it's not the only difference and not nearly as significant as some like to think. The entire game has changed, not just the clubs, but the players, their conditioning, their approach, and how they utilize tech to perform at the highest level and get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes. COR has been maxed for years, yet scores still are dropping and this debate gets rehashed over and over. The groves in wedges changed, yet the pros can still zip them back like crazy. People say the ball doesnt spin enough, yet the best pros are the one's who who can control their spin and ball flight

>

> Golfwrx posters-No need for a new driver, they are all the same, COR has been the limit for years, I still hit my 910D2 as long as anything new!

>

> Also

>

> Golfwrx posters-The clubs and ball are too dang long, no skill needed!

 

Actually theyre not "zipping it back" much at all these days. No need to when angle of descent is so steep. Too much spin back in the day was a more like a necessary evil.....needed to get the ball up in the air and have a chance of stopping, but it was still far less reliable and predictable and balls would pull back away from hole and even off the green a lot. Norman's collapse in 96' masters really started at 9 when he spun a 100 yard approach off the green all the way to the bottom of the hill....nearly impossible up and down from that spot.

[bscinstnct]

Couple of interesting question addressed here.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-most-important-questionsand-answerson-distance

 

 

“If distance is out of control, then scoring records should be falling left and right, no?

 

Not exactly. Although some have been toppled recently (Justin Thomas’ 253 at Sony, Henrik Stenson’s 258 at Wyndham and Marc Leishman’s 261 at the BMW in 2017 being recent examples), most 72-hole totals have held up. In fact, 11 scoring records have stood for 15 years or more, with several dating back to the 1990s.”

 

.

 

 

“I worry the pro game is becoming pitch-and-putt instead of a full test of golf.

 

The answer to this depends on what your definition of pitch-and-putt is. The idea that insanely long drives leave approach shots that only require wedge shots, the easiest full-swing club in the bag to hit, is a clear concern that driving distance is negatively impacting the skills required at the elite level (better players should be required to hit a wide variety of approach shots, including long and middle irons). But here are the facts and you can decide for yourself. In the 2016-17 season there were 76,464 approach shots hit between 50 and 150 yards according to ShotLink. In that middle ground of 150 to 175 yards there were another 44,342 shots. For shots 175 yards and longer there were 80,121 shots. Granted, this includes second shots into par 5s when going for it, but a 4-iron shot is a 4-iron shot regardless of ”

[JD3]

200 yards is between a 6 or 7 iron for a lot of these guys, what difference does it make? It's not a pitch and putt literal for these guys but it's not a drive 3 or 4 irons either.

[lowheel]

> @bladehunter said:

> Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

>

> It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

 

I dont expect youll get an answer...

[Oz Max]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HoosierMizuno said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > Not sure why he is complaining. His accuracy has been ok to crappy over the years.

> > >

> > > And even then it’s his driving that makes him competitive considering he is pretty much always negative strokes gained putting.

> >

> > wouldn't adam scott's driving and ball striking ability be exactly why he's complaining. ball strikers aren't getting the advantage they feel they should have because the equipment of today has the ability to hide mishits better than ever. guys who can work the ball both ways and stripe their irons are being beat by guys who just bomb it off the tee and putt well.

>

> BBbbbbbingo!

If bombing your driver isn't a skill, why don't they ALL do it then?

 

[lowheel]

> @airjammer said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > The flip side is that the tour boys play at a course once a year-if that. The members or public have to be able to play, and enjoy, the course the rest of the year.

> >

> > meh it takes 2-3 weeks to grow good rough. its simple from 290-330 make the rough a penalty. doesnt have to be every week just more often

>

> Long hitters don’t need to have longer rough in their landing area..they shouldn’t be punished for being able to hit it far. Everyone should be punished for being crooked.

>

> The tour is selling distance..they have control over how the courses are configured in many cases. They set them up to have the longer hitters hit over bunkers while the average guys have to hit 3wds to stay short. On top of that the big hitters hit the downslope that is created when you have a high lipped bunker.

> It ends up being sometimes a 50 yard difference and there wasn’t any risk for them at all.

>

> Courses/memberships that actually want a tour event there could easily add or lengthen bunkers that wouldn’t affect the play of the members what so ever.

 

theyre not being punished for hitting it long theyre being punished for hitting it long into rough without consequence. You do know during practice rounds these guys know where they can hit driver with impunity right? I dont care about bunkers and what they need to be carried and your scenario does happen however the guys bombing it over or trying to bomb it over are not worried about the rough, thats the issue. Again doesnt have to be every week but...

[lowheel]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

> >

> > It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

>

> I've never said it makes zero difference, I'm just saying it's not the only difference and not nearly as significant as some like to think. The entire game has changed, not just the clubs, but the players, their conditioning, their approach, and how they utilize tech to perform at the highest level and get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes. COR has been maxed for years, yet scores still are dropping and this debate gets rehashed over and over. The groves in wedges changed, yet the pros can still zip them back like crazy. People say the ball doesnt spin enough, yet the best pros are the one's who who can control their spin and ball flight

>

> Golfwrx posters-No need for a new driver, they are all the same, COR has been the limit for years, I still hit my 910D2 as long as anything new!

>

> Also

>

> Golfwrx posters-The clubs and ball are too dang long, no skill needed!

 

the answer to your questions is ... Trackman. fitting on tour is the real game changer. over 100 tour players are carrying their own trackman on tour every week. that should tell you all you need to know.

[Shilgy]

> @lowheel said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

> > >

> > > It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

> >

> > I've never said it makes zero difference, I'm just saying it's not the only difference and not nearly as significant as some like to think. The entire game has changed, not just the clubs, but the players, their conditioning, their approach, and how they utilize tech to perform at the highest level and get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes. COR has been maxed for years, yet scores still are dropping and this debate gets rehashed over and over. The groves in wedges changed, yet the pros can still zip them back like crazy. People say the ball doesnt spin enough, yet the best pros are the one's who who can control their spin and ball flight

> >

> > Golfwrx posters-No need for a new driver, they are all the same, COR has been the limit for years, I still hit my 910D2 as long as anything new!

> >

> > Also

> >

> > Golfwrx posters-The clubs and ball are too dang long, no skill needed!

>

> the answer to your questions is ... Trackman. fitting on tour is the real game changer. over 100 tour players are carrying their own trackman on tour every week. that should tell you all you need to know.

 

I take it you don't think they are dialing in wedge distance?

Why do you believe they all use Trackman while warming up for a tournament round?

[mosesgolf]

They need to build more courses like Merion. 7600+ yards for any course is ridonkulous

[peterw5]

Guys are hitting it so far that being accurate off the tee doesn't matter nearly as much as it used to. I think that's a problem. Back in the days when the average driving distance was 280yds it was important to hit the fairway in order to have a good chance to hit the green in regulation. In my opinion that's the way it should be. Unfortunately, guys are now hitting their tee shots so far that they have no problem getting to the green in regulation even if they miss the fairway.

 

I think the pro golfers' ball ought to be rolled back. Recreational golfers can continue to play a regular ball. I don't see why having separate balls would be such a problem. Most recreational golfers are already playing a different game than the pros because they're playing from shorter tee boxes. So why not have a bifurcated golf ball too? If a recreational golfer really wants to "play like the pros" then he can just buy himself some rolled back pro-regulation golf balls and play from the tips. The rest of us can continue playing what we're playing and the pros will no longer be able to "bomb and gouge" their way around a golf course without having to worry about accuracy off the tee.

[mosesgolf]

Today's Tour players is much more athletic than yesteryear's player. Justin Thomas vs Tom Kite. Rory McElroy vs Ben Crenshaw. Brooks Koepka vs ? DJ vs ?

Most of yesteryear's tour players can't sniff 120mph clubhead speeds and 180mph ball speeds with today's equipment. Different era different athlete folks.

[LICC]

> @mosesgolf said:

> Today's Tour players is much more athletic than yesteryear's player. Justin Thomas vs Tom Kite. Rory McElroy vs Ben Crenshaw. Brooks Koepka vs ? DJ vs ?

> Most of yesteryear's tour players can't sniff 120mph clubhead speeds and 180mph ball speeds with today's equipment. Different era different athlete folks.

 

Nonsense. Gary Player. Arnold Palmer. Mike Souchek. Nicklaus was measured at 118mph clubhead speed at age 58. It’s the equipment that is responsible for 90%+ of the distance gains.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Lol. I’m glad I can give you guys something to chew on this evening.

> > >

> > > It still amazes me how many claim that equipment makes zero difference. And yet those same Guys will fight against any change tooth and nail. If it doesn’t matter , then why does it matter ?

> >

> > I've never said it makes zero difference, I'm just saying it's not the only difference and not nearly as significant as some like to think. The entire game has changed, not just the clubs, but the players, their conditioning, their approach, and how they utilize tech to perform at the highest level and get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes. COR has been maxed for years, yet scores still are dropping and this debate gets rehashed over and over. The groves in wedges changed, yet the pros can still zip them back like crazy. People say the ball doesnt spin enough, yet the best pros are the one's who who can control their spin and ball flight

> >

> > Golfwrx posters-No need for a new driver, they are all the same, COR has been the limit for years, I still hit my 910D2 as long as anything new!

> >

> > Also

> >

> > Golfwrx posters-The clubs and ball are too dang long, no skill needed!

>

> Well said-Blade please direct me to a post, any post on any discussion-that claimed the equipment made zero difference.

> Thank you

 

Well it’s the goal post that moves. If someone cites equipment , it’s said that “ these guys are buff “. So we say ok. Moving equipment back won’t matter .... and people lose their minds and say “ there would be an outrage , you can’t do that , nobody wants t go back to 1995. !!! Ohkayy.... well. It’s hard to figure it which it is and why fitness is thrown up as the reason until it’s not.

[gvogel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > 600 is a bit high for a par 4...but not much too high. Probably 570 or so.

> > > >

> > > > These guys hit 5-irons 230. They hit fairway woods 280-290. Anything under 600 yards, unless the hole somehow forces a lay-up, is a par-4 for these guys.

> > >

> > > I ask again, what is your point? Why does it matter? Does the player with the fewest strokes not win every time? You covert a few more par 5s to 4s and a few 4s to 3s, guess what, the longest guys are still likely to win week in and week out. And rolling back the ball/equipment will only make it harder for the short knockers

> >

> > To use an analogy. Suppose we shorten all mlb parks to 250 ft. We’d see 25-30 homers a game. And highest score would still win. But at that point is ceases to be baseball. And is instead a home run derby.

> >

> > SOme of us see golf as ceasing to be golf soon and instead becoming something else.

>

> Have the lengthed the 100m dash? Did the record for the mile get too fast so we lengthened the mile? Guys jump higher-has the hoop in basketball been raised?

> Yes the game has ~~changed~~ evolved. All games do. Embrace it or be the old guy yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

 

They did lengthen the dash. It used to be 100 yards. Now it's meters.

 

They could raise the basket in basketball. It would make it a better game.

[OutBackHack]

> @jjmurry said:

> Would certainly help if they took all the water that they use to soak the greens and watered the fairways so these guys don't get 30 yards of roll.

 

Comments like this are part of the problem...ask anyone who's played any type of tournament golf and the answer will always be that firm fairways are more difficult than soft. Think about it, if the ball stops where it lands and your goal is to land on the fairway, it's gonna end up on the fairway. Anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

Firm fairways combined with dog legs equal balls running into the rough if the perfect drive isn't hit.

[bladehunter]

> @OutBackHack said:

> > @jjmurry said:

> > Would certainly help if they took all the water that they use to soak the greens and watered the fairways so these guys don't get 30 yards of roll.

>

> Comments like this are part of the problem...ask anyone who's played any type of tournament golf and the answer will always be that firm fairways are more difficult than soft. Think about it, if the ball stops where it lands and your goal is to land on the fairway, it's gonna end up on the fairway. Anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

> Firm fairways combined with dog legs equal balls running into the rough if the perfect drive isn't hit.

 

Absolutely agree. A wet course is easier as a whole.

[gvogel]

> @mosesgolf said:

> Today's Tour players is much more athletic than yesteryear's player. Justin Thomas vs Tom Kite. Rory McElroy vs Ben Crenshaw. Brooks Koepka vs ? DJ vs ?

> Most of yesteryear's tour players can't sniff 120mph clubhead speeds and 180mph ball speeds with today's equipment. Different era different athlete folks.

 

I saw Ben Crenshaw play at the Porter Cup when he was in college. He looked plenty athletic to me, and he was quite long compared to his contemporaries.

 

[JD3]

Who are your Corey pavin, Fred funk, Chris dimarco's of today? The era when the shortest hitter in the field could make it up in other ways and be a fixture on top of the money list is over.

[Luando85]

That’s the truth but who doesn’t like the feeling of hitting a good driver. I’m sure the pros still enjoy it

[Soloman1]

 

 

 

[QMany]

Adam Scott:

* 2018: 13th in Clubhead Speed (120.85), 44th in Strokes Gained OTT.

* 2019: 20th in Clubhead Speed (120.29), 33rd in Strokes Gained OTT.

 

Dustin Johnson:

* 2018: 10th in Clubhead Speed (121.38), 1st in Strokes Gained OTT.

* 2019: T30 in Clubhead Speed (119.19), 5th in Strokes Gained OTT.

 

MAYBE there is a little more skill involved than Adam Scott realizes.

[bladehunter]

> @QMany said:

> Adam Scott:

> * 2018: 13th in Clubhead Speed (120.85), 44th in Strokes Gained OTT.

> * 2019: 20th in Clubhead Speed (120.29), 33rd in Strokes Gained OTT.

>

> Dustin Johnson:

> * 2018: 10th in Clubhead Speed (121.38), 1st in Strokes Gained OTT.

> * 2019: T30 in Clubhead Speed (119.19), 5th in Strokes Gained OTT.

>

> MAYBE there is a little more skill involved than Adam Scott realizes.

 

What’s the difference in the two strokes gained metrics ? I bet it’s less than a shot.

 

I assume your suggesting that the skill level from 1st to 33rd is a huge gap in skill ?

[gvogel]

> @Soloman1 said:

>

>

>

>

 

Thanks for reminding us that the oversized, titanium driver increased average tour distance by 15 yards, and then the introduction of the Pro V1 increased distance by another 15 yards.

[JDCON]

All this talk of technology makes it even more impressive how Greg Norman played the game and drove the ball in the 80s and 90s. Time to watch some classic Shark videos!