Callaway Epic Forged; The Ball Speed Is Frightening

[uglande]

Basically a hot-faced 5 iron, but still those are huge distances. None of that means anything, however, if the shots are un-usable. My guess is these were low-spinning missiles. And what kind of yardage gaps are we looking at with a set like this? You'd need to carry six wedges.

[AmazinBlue]

I only have 2 things to say about today's distance irons.

1. The OEMs are using lofts that create the proper ball flight for the psrticul as r iron. They go farther because of the less spin and optimizing the trajectory and launch angle with ball speed and spin. If they used traditional lofts from years ago, the ball would go straight up in the air and be useless.

2. OEMs are taking advantage of the rules with irons because drivers are limited. In essence the new distance irons are re maki g drivers linger because a player can still hit a shorter iron in When not hitting 300+ yards off the tee. So you hit 270 and hit an 8 170 on a 440 yard par 4, instead of hitting it 300 and 140 in with an iron.

The real question is what did you score on the hole, not what club you used to get there. That stat is only for pros.

Let it go.

[AmazinBlue]

Personally, I would rather hit 310 drives than 200 yard 7 irons, but the rules won't let me do that. I think the OEMs should be allowed to make drivers that help amaruershit 300 yard drives and then they wouldn't need 7 irons that go 200. But that's just me. I would have more fun hitting it 310 off the tee if I could.

[Sean2]

When push comes to shove, it is just a number on the bottom of a club. And, with stronger lofts we end up with fewer irons and more wedges (and more hybrids)...heck, some 5-irons are 21º. I don't know many amateurs that can consistently hit a 21º iron, myself included.

[AmazinBlue]

My longest iron has been a 5 iron for at least 3 years now. A 21 deg 5 iron would not end up in much bag. A set of 2019 p790s will be in my bag before spring.

[dpb5031]

Exactly! The key is recognizing it in advance and adjusting accordingly. Reading a lie in the rough is as important as reading putts on the green. I'll add that occasionally a flier can work in your favor, especially into a stiff headwind.

[Valtiel]

Sorry, but #1 is at best misleading and at worst completely untrue. OEMs are using lofts to create distance, thats it. They go further because they are spinning less because of lower loft. CG has not changed over the years and only some face constructions have gotten a touch hotter (hollow irons etc). Saying "If they used traditional lofts from years ago, the ball would go straight up in the air and be useless" is ridiculous because it is only a matter of loft. A "traditionally" lofted 45* 9-iron will spin and fly the same whether it has a "9" or a "P" on the bottom unless the CG of the club is radically different. There is nothing in modern tech that requires low lofts to function correctly.

[AmazinBlue]

The tech going into iron design has changed and through the use of specific weight placement and hence CG placement, OEMs can manipulate ball flight such that they are able to lower lofts that, yes make the ball go farther and lower spin. But the placement of the CG also without the lowering of the lofts would make the ball go too high.

Either way it doesn't matter how far a particular iron hits a ball. The key has always been and will always be, what score did you get on the hole.

Since handicaps are not dropping at a significant rate, my guess is, the loft or distance a player hits an iron is not affecting the score a player shoots. Although it might change a players chance to gloat about how far he hit a ball.

[Valtiel]

This topic has been discussed a bunch of times on around the forums and I used to believe this to be true, but unfortunately it is pure marketing fluff to disguise the truth. Yes there has been weight placement shifts via various materials and tech etc etc, but the marketing line of "the ball would go too high" has been disproven. It is based on the idea that with a lower CG comes a higher ball flight with lower spin, which to a certain extent is true, but the problem is that CG's have not lowered. Maltby has been measuring the specs of iron heads via the MPF charts over on Golfworks (google them for more info) and vertical COG among many other things have been documented and shown to have not shifted or changed in any significant way in the last 10 years. If anything, the average COG has actually gotten HIGHER which is counter to what these manufacturer claims state. Bottom line, the "we needed to strengthen lofts because of CG changes" is a complete red herring to disguise the fact that strengthening lofts is purely a move done out of chasing distance to sell irons. A modern, strong lofted iron bent to weaker, traditional specs would not suddenly go nowhere. Yes it would go shorter and spin more, but ONLY because of loft, not because of some tech story.

[Les Strokes]

 

 

[Steelhead]

I had buyers remorse and been wanting to return mine for g410s (running home to my Ping momma) but the Epic Forged feel just incredible, no fliers, consistent distances, ridiculously forgiving with a great sound at impact. Played at Champions Gate (72° day in FL) on Christmas day and figured this would be my last round with them as it is only 2 more days before my 90 day playability expired. However I’m now reluctant to give them up. Not because of distance but because they just work as advertised. Just don’t look at the number on the club as a traditional number. Just know the seven is 27°, eight is 31.5° and use accordingly. My old joints love the Steelfibers, I’m over the fact that I spent $2,300 on a set of irons (added wedges for gaps) because I will routinely go thru three or four sets of irons every year just for fun totaling well over that amount of money. I’m guessing that Callaway will release much of this technology in less expensive packages in the future but for now these are at the top of the Callaway heap for this 10 hcp. These will stay in the Varsity position until I give the new 710s a shot next year.

[jjfcpa]

I tried them recently at my Club Champion fitting and they did not perform any better than my Apex CF19's. Felt pretty good but not any better than my Apex.

[TheMoneyShot]

One of the guys I work with got these for Christmas. He is all jacked up and has been texting me all day about them. He hit them twice at GG and was instantly sold.

[rgk5]

You are a Taylor Made disciple so they are probably not for you.

[TheMoneyShot]

Not sure what TM has to do with my original post? In all honesty, I probably own more Cally clubs than you do. I ho a lot of different brands, including Cally.

Back to the topic: These clubs are not for me but my buddy is sure excited about his new sticks. He got the whole set, 4 iron - PW with the gap, attack and sand wedge. He must have been good boy this year...

[Munich77]

I had the same experience. I was at a fitting and compared to the Apex CF19 the Epic Forged were only a couple yards longer. I attributed the difference to loft differences. Great irons no doubt but not necessarily the best for me.

[rgk5]

Well, for all you Swamis who said the Epic Forged would never see the light of day on the Tour, Mickleson has some of them in his bag this week at The Farmers.

[Lobber]

I picked up a set through a friend who works for Cally. Price with their discount made them comprable to other branded offerings and about 55% les than PXG Gen 3. I am super impressed with the feel, distance, workability and forgiveness. I can work them, hit knock downs and put a bad swing without being sent to the gas chamber. As far as spin I’m having no trouble holding greens and the ball does check nicely. The only thing that others have mentioned is the gapping and need for more wedges. The PW is 41 degrees so one would need 3 to 4 more wedges depending on ones game and gapping preferences. Other than that I can’t say enough good things about them

[clinkinfo]

 

 

[clinkinfo]

So after all the discussion and the resulting research I couldn't resist either and decided to give these a try. Steelfibers are my normal shaft choice anyway, so that part was an easy decision. But I can echo the same sentiment as above. There's something really unique about these (and I've tried pretty much everything). I was playing gen 2 PXG's, but honestly, these are pretty certain to knock them out. First off, the feel is just amazing. Not just for this type of iron, they really feel amazingly good compared to everything. I was really surprised by that. I love the look of 8 iron down. I really don't love seeing a tiny bit of the back in the longer irons, but honestly, after playing them I can forgive it. The entire face seems to have almost the same speed. I've never really experienced that before. Shots that were really poor, they did nothing different. High, low, toe, heel as long as you are within reason, you'll get good results. And the speed is nuts, easily a club longer just based on ball speed. Enough spin to stop, did not have any problems holding anything when I played. These really did surprise me. Are they worth the crazy retail price? Honestly, maybe. But then none of us will pay it anyway, they are already down to like $150 a club on Callaway preowned when there's a good sale. I think the most surprising part for me was the feel. They really really feel good. My normal shot is a high baby draw, these hit it as expected. I was able to knock them down and one hop them from inside 130 or so, as I would expect. I watch the PW spin back when it landed on the 3/4 shots. The only negative I would say is the slight sight of the back in 7 iron up. Oh, and I forgot to mention, I know the pictures make these look huge (like the original epic pros), but they aren't in real life. They are actually quite nicely sized, and look like a typical players cavity back. All around a very pleasant surprise. These wouldn't normally the clubs I'd pick, I'd be enticed over to something more AP2ish in shape. And lately I've been battling that blade vs cavity back thing, going back and forth as well. But I think I'm going to give these a run for a bit they are really really consistent.

[CaymanS]

A long time ago I was in a golf shop looking at clubs, maybe 20 years ago. Another customer was near me and said the clubs don't matter, it is how you swing them. He said he was a club designer! I'm in San Diego and there are more of those guys around than most places. Even If was "pulling my leg", he really had a point. The club business is all about distribution and marketing, not technology and performance. It is like a painter with a small canvas, there is only so much you can do.

[ssfranny]

Driver shaving? but I agree why cant the OEMs make a non conforming face driver and mark it somehow even on face that way if play a tourney youd know.

[GSDriver]

Regarding 'jacked up' lofts, reviewing club specs from most major OEMs they've all jumped on the loft train. Number on bottom of club doesn't matter, as long as you know how far you hit each. Basically, compared to 'old school' lofts, seems 3-PW from yesteryear is now today's 4-AW.

[jaydub]

When I was a young guy, everyone played blades, no matter what level of talent. Irons these days are all over the map in regards to head size, shape, and loft. Muscle back, cavity back, classic blade, and welded faces. A vast array of steel and graphite shafts. Who is to say what is legit? I still have a near mint set of classic Hogan Apex irons, and once in a while will try to play them. Then I'm reminded I don't have that game anymore, if I ever did. And I'm not going back to balata.

If you own and play a set of irons, you know how far and about how high you usually hit a shot with each iron. Looks to me that an Epic Forged 5 iron is going to hit the ball about as far as a more typical 3 to 4 iron but with more height. What's not to like about that? If they numbered them according to the loft, the height of the shot would scare players away.

How many here are too proud to play a new driver? I would guess some just like their old driver, but new technology helps most of us. This year's $550 driver is next years $400 driver, and so on. The tech in these irons will possibly filter down to more average priced irons in a couple of years.

I demoed and was fit for a set of Epic Forged irons and SuperHybrids on an outdoor range with a Trackman this past weekend. The feel and dispersion were better than my Apex 16's and old Adams hybrids. And my distance range was increased, given I play 4 wedges anyway. My gaps were no longer compressed at the shorter distances. I'm going to go ahead and buy them, and look forward to playing them. I'll quickly figure out what distance I get with each club.

[rgk5]

A wise move best on results rather than unproven theories.

[clinkinfo]

You’ll really like them. I’m still loving them. These are different to me, I get far better ballspeed, much higher flight (watch that txg video about ping, the power specs go HIGHER, not lower, so the loft discussion is dumb), and they have great feel. The results on heavy and thin shots are very different than other irons I’ve played. You get way more distance than you deserve for the strike. I’ve had strikes were I expected to be 20 yards short, and I’m on the front. Playing partners are saying nice shot, and I’m sorta cringing inside knowing it was awful. That’s a nice feeling lol.

[KRCGolf]

How are you liking them so far? What kind of comparisons do you have between those and your old CF16's? Did the variation in length and lie make you need any adjustments?

[clinkinfo]

So I think your encounter is probably true when you look at each iteration compared to the last. I don’t think generally speaking there’s huge improvement or change from say a 2016 model to the 2017 model of a club. However, to say that overall is just not true. Comparing drivers from 20 years ago, they aren’t even remotely close to the same performance and forgiveness. And looking at irons, irons would have a smash factor of like 1.10, so an 80mph swing would get 88mph ball speed. We have irons now giving 1.45, which means that same 80mph swing if getting 116 mph of ball speed. That’s just not the same level of performance.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

If the set wasn’t so expensive, even for used sets. I’d play these irons for sure. I have hit all the irons 4-pw and they are freaky long and super high.

[ChaosTheory]

How can an iron with say 27 degrees of loft have a smash factor of 1.45? It's a very angled strike compared to a driver.