Narcissism and the Pga Tour.

[jholz]

I don't think that every professional athlete, let alone professional golfer, is a narcissist in the clinical definition of the word. Some of them are, however.

 

I think it is also possible that the nature of being a professional athlete lends itself to developing narcissistic tendencies. This is, in part, a result of the way they are treated by everyone who sees them as a meal ticket. This serves to reinforce the narcissism - al la Patrick Reed. The narcissist can screw over all sorts of people, yet there's always another person trying to hitch their wagon to them. Beyond this, narcissism provides a competitive advantage. If you think you are awesome, you are more likely to perform at a high level.

 

Yet, I think it is also important that we recognize the very odd psychological conditions that high level professional athletes occupy. At the highest levels, most athletes are going to fail most of the time. A PGA Tour pro might be better than 99.9% of people at golf, but if they don't win, they are generally considered a failure. So, they have to find other ways to show that they have been successful. Ian Poulter and Phil Mickelson come to mind in this light. What might look like narcissism may simply be a coping mechanism.

 

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[bscinstnct]

Sometimes it takes a narcissist to get things done ; )

 

[CasualLie]

Totally lost me at the point of Tiger "never had a healthy long lasting marriage and burned many bridges" . That equals narcissist? So he had one trophy wife/marriage that did not work out...big deal. Countless others have had marriages where they seemingly put in a lot more effort and it still did not work out. And what bridge did Tiger burn? You got that backwards. Others burned the bridge to Tiger; he has not and arguably cannot burn a bridge. If the privilege of being #1 is mild narcissism, so be it.

 

 

[jonsnow]

Liked for the Ragnar reference. Do all narcissists end up in a pit of snakes?

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Bruce is a beast, have you seen him workout!

[dlygrisse]

Golf by it's very nature is a self centered game at a competitive level. That doesn't mean you have to be a narcissist....but at some level it that sort of personality suits itself more to golf than a highly team oriented sport.

There is a Me in team...but it's spelled backwards.

[tacklingdummy]

This thread also qualifies with the definition of narcissism as well.

[Bushwood Country Club]

OP - Here's the clinical definition:Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding.

What successful athlete, in an INDIVIDUAL sport, does not to some degree display some or all of the following:

self centered (how else can they focus on an individual sport?)arrogant (difference between self confidence and arrogance is ________?)lack of empathy and consideration for other people (not sure where the OP can make this assessment from - does he know Tiger or Patrick personally)excessive need for admiration (maybe you see this from Tiger - but well earned, not sure where you ever see this from PR)cocky (see "arrogance" above)manipulative (not sure where the OP can make this assessment from - does he know Tiger or Patrick personally. Don't think you could suggest Reed manipulative in any way - he's not that big of an influencer of culture)selfish (where is the evidence, esp on Reed? )patronizing (where is the evidence, esp on Reed? Can you cite some examples of patronizing behavior?)demanding ((where is the evidence, esp on Reed - but even if there were evidence, its the highest level of an individual sport...what do you expect?)I get it - OP hates Tiger and (for some bizarre reason) Reed. But suggesting they are narcissists is comical....

[Hawkeye77]

Maybe if you weren't in the next chair!

[nitram]

I'm not going to defend some or all who's perceived as jerks because that's just some folks and how they are. But on the other side I'll just add this;

What's perceived as narcissism by some is simply a coping mechanism. The reason most athlete's don't cut it in individual sports is not lack of talent. It's a lack of being able to cope mentally.

There comes a point early in an athletes career that you learn to "tune it out" and develop a "I don't give a crap what you think" mindset simply for self-preservation.

Mental attitude (self-perception) is a critical ingredient in anyone being successful. What some view as uber confidence others view as cockiness or simply being a d..k.

You can't go to the tee or the batters box and think "I suck" although there are several in the crowd who'll tell you that you do. Miss a couple of cuts in a row or go 0 for 12 on a road trip and you'll begin to believe you suck and be headed out of the game or learn a way to survive. It's easier to distance yourself from people you don't know nor need.

I'm not gonna defend Tiger because his life is about as exposed as anyone on the planet and you can make your own decision. But I will say I've had a chance to visit with folks with whom he has business dealings & went to Stanford with and they all say what an excellent host and person he is to them. I guess it depends on how close you are to the fire.

 

[bscinstnct]

Well, after discovering and conquering new worlds, marrying hot babes, and rising to be King, Ragnar's realizes he was truly happy when he was just a simple farmer with his wife.

 

Now, Ivar, talk about a narcissist, made himself a god! lol

 

[thevaporz]

Have you not followed Reed at all in the past few years? He disowned his family, doesn't take accountability for his actions (waste area shovel), patronized Spieth by autographing his neck, complained about the free Red Sox tickets in the "line drive section", ditched Callaway after claiming their equipment was off spec, etc.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Obviously just poking a little fun at you. Not presuming to know. Just planting the seed ...you never know when an idea planted in the subconscious will blossom ! There can be no downside to that idea , surely !

[Ferguson]

 

I admit to having a pedicure once in a while. I go for the laughs.

 

 

[Bushwood Country Club]

You haven't lived until you go to the nail polish section, choose your favorite team's colors, and ask them to alternate colors on your toes!

[TimK1]

Phil is hardly a failure. It's safe to say, he would be considered one of the greatest ever if he didn't play in the Tiger Era. His record speaks for itself. You have to be selfish in that arena. Especially with all the blood sucking leaches out there who want to attach themselves to a star just for there own gain.

I wouldn't talk to anybody either. Don't blame them one bit. To many assholes out there. Just tune into a PGA event and listen to the stupid idiots screaming out nonsense.

[Ferguson]

 

No problem. It's complicated living with her sometimes - it's like that episode of Seinfeld when Jerry was dating the masseuse and she wouldn't give him a massage. I don't get free treatment - she knows I am a fruitcake.

I act more as a sounding board for her and she appreciates that I listen. Some of her work is fascinating and at other times really sad.

 

[Bushwood Country Club]

Welp.....

(1) Do you have any idea what his fam situation was like? Not sure where they were when his wife was serving as his caddie...

(2) He said it was unintentional. I guess you are up to just call him a liar? Sorry - I don't go there, and seemingly neither did the PGA Commissioner - calling people "liars" without hard proof is a line I don't cross. He KNEW cameras were everywhere, I just do not think he REALLY needed the $ bad enough to do something that obvious...

(3) Don't know much about the neck or the Red Sox - but those seem pretty minor

(4) Based on his performance since switching irons, I would say there was something to his comments about Callaway being off. Maybe you heard about the Callaway ball test that was done on MyGolfSpy?

[Irishman1979]

Pooper and shmuckelson are quite simply a joke.

[kekoa]

Please don't ever compare Michael Jackson to Tiger again!

[Hawkeye77]

Don't bite!!!!!!!!!!

[Vindog]

Do what now? This is the first I’ve heard of all of this.

 

kiddding.

[Vindog]

OP couldn’t cut it on tour (if he was even on one) so the next logical step is to attack the best in the game.

 

Just look at all the big words he uses!

[Hawkeye77]

Somehow my wife doesn't mind that I'm not a good sounding board for advanced geometry, pre-calc and algebra (and she avoids the teachers' lounge like the plague, lol, so none of that crap comes home). I can't imagine a day as a clinical psychologist - very heavy lifting, IMO, and you need the right folks doing it as you know better than anyone with your wife in the profession.

 

But the occasional issues with kids, families and activities and she appreciates it when I shut up and listen once in awhile. I'm more of a venter, lol, she's a "discusser"!

 

Always important to listen. Having said that, I'm always a little hurt that she really doesn't need to consult a psychologist and in hindsight it seems basic child psychology rules when I find myself inevitably doing what she wants - damn.

 

 

[Ferguson]

Remember that guy who posted that he played a round of golf with Téa Leoni?

He may have been a little narcissistic.

[jholz]

As is this comment.

[BB28403]

Alright let’s break this down. Tiger:

SymptomsSigns and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance-I don’t think tiger qualifies he doesn’t like puffing himself up in interviews Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration- nah he shrinks back and avoids a lot of that , but this one could be a maybe.Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it - he over achieves so NOPE!Exaggerate achievements and talents - DEF NOT!Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate - Not really, I don’t think.Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people - Not sure , but from past friendships tiger likes being around low key people who are kind of introverted.Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior. -Perhaps..... lol Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations. Not really, Tiger is just a bad communicatorTake advantage of others to get what they want- No not at all, I wouldn’t say.Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others - ummm this one could be right .Be envious of others and believe others envy them , - perhaps Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious - No I do not think so, if he does it is warranted by success.Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office - I don’t think so, he could have lots more better things.At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment - Maybe but not from what I’ve read.Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted - PerhapsReact with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior - I really doubt tiger does this.Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior - no he is THE MASTER at thisExperience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change -NOPE , again THE MASTER!Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection - Ummm yeah this could be right .Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation, could be?

[bscinstnct]

Who wasn't a version of Narcissus (The guy in mythology who fell in love with his own reflection ) back when you like 21 years old and getting ready to go to "the club", makin your fresh "do" with mousse in the mirrow, and throwin on some Z Cavaricci's!

 

Watch a little Miami Vice at your friends house with your boys then go cruise for chicks. And get none ; )

 

80s Jerry!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bad9]

Tom Watson would be one of the first on that list with Fred Couples right there with him.

[straightshot7]

Is it fair to judge Tiger by normal standards?

He was on National TV at age 2.

He was one of the most famous people in the world by age 25.

He has never not been in the spotlight and told that he was the greatest, etc.

It's actually more of a wonder that he isn't a total jerk.

There are lots of reasons he could want to live a private life that have nothing to do with narcissism. Try being an almost billionaire and one of the most famous people in the world and see how it is to go about life, and how many people want to use you for something.

He seems pretty social now, though, at least with his fellow golfers. Maybe he out-grew whatever he had.