SIM Drivers: Can only hit cuts and can't close the face!

[JoeFrigo]

I haven't gotten on course yet here in Chicago, but plenty of outdoor range time. I loved the m5 and didnt see a bias either way but hit a draw primarily all year... Testing SIM and SIM Max I definitely struggled with SIM. Lost a lot right with super low spin so I ruled it out right away The SIM Max was perfect for me. I play my drivers in the "lie" (upright) setting already. Ive found the SIM Max to be very very neutral in flight and if anything a soft baby fade

 

I dont ever try to draw the ball, its just my normal path, but I haven't hit too many draws with the SIM Max compared to m5 all last year. On the bright side I guess it means the left side can be eliminated and I can aim more center down the fairway. Sunday it will be nice out and I have a tee time already so ill comment then on what flights I see

[bladehunter]

Lol. No problem.

 

but I’m not talking alter a swing. I lay the face open for a fade. And swing . Same swing with face square to slightly shut makes a draw. Barely changing path. More finish. If you’re swinging to right field and it’s not coming back. It’s not the clubs fault. That’s a neutral club. The face to path is the issue.

I hit a hard cut as a stock go to shot. And this driver does not want to go right with me. I hate the high right miss. Sorry. Just showing that it’s not a hugely biased head either way.

[G-Bone]

Here is some interesting info for you guys.

I have a connection with a TM Tour Rep. He told me that most tour guys played M5 with weight back and set to draw. But with SIM most are playing it neutral, meaning SIM head is less fade bias or more draw bias, however you want to say it.

I have seen pictures of Rory and I believe Jason day with SIM at neutral. Dustin Johnson has his set at fade and Sergio has his at draw.

That said, here is a picture posted here on WRX of Tiger's M5 and SIM side by side. Clearly Tiger has his M5 weight back and draw, as my TM guy mentioned, and his SIM set at neutral.

So, with some deductive reasoning, one might assume SIM is indeed more neutral than M5 head.

Just something to chew on...

[manima1]

How much slower?

 

I've tested my M5 side by side with SIM Max and it was negligible.

 

I can't imagine you're leaving much if anything on the table and sounds like you had a pretty good thing going with M5

[getitdaily]

All good man. I just prefer to keep my swing the same and let the club work. I can hit a draw on command but stock is a fade.

[getitdaily]

M5

Sim

[herbert7890]

This is one of the reason I'm really loving the SIM (apart from being very long off the tee). I am now hitting a mild draw (4-6 feet) vs a 20 foot draw, which is awesome for me. Way more controllable this way.

[getitdaily]

I think sim will end up being a drawers dream. Swing as hard as you want and not worry about the quack quack.

Also why I'm still holding out hope that I just needed to get into as draw biased a setup as I could get. Think I found it on the range sunday but need on course validation.

I think the guys who are seeing that hard right miss need to go to the rage and set this driver up into max draw and see if they can get it to go hard left. Then work toward a setup that reigns in the lefts. That's basically where I got to Sunday...said screw it, let me see if I can get this thing going left.

[cwilk]

Rory tested a 10.5* lowered/open to try and pre-set the club for a fade. Then he went back to a 9 at that standard setting. That makes me think it's fade biased enough as is.

Also, Sergio is playing his with the weight all the way in the draw position. I thought I read somewhere Tiger is a well, but I can't find it so maybe I misread or someone else posted bad info.

[jah7838]

When I tested it, I didn't have much of a problem turning it over. I usually play a fade off the tee, and actually had to move the weight towards the toe a bit to straighten it out. This was with the Diamana stock shaft. I couldn't hit the Hzrdus green to save my life. This was testing both the 9* and 10.5* heads. The 9* head was too low launching and spinning, and the 10.5* gave me similar numbers to my M3 9.5*.

[bladehunter]

To be accurate. I’m playing the max. Which to me is a much better head. So maybe that’s the disconnect. That being said.

 

I’d bet spin is part of the non drawing issue. Maybe too low ? These are both really low spin heads.

[fkim011]

Max here too. Went to get the sim but got fitted into the Max sim.

[SwooshLT]

I'm assuming same day and does this correlate to on course findings?

[getitdaily]

Yep. Those were 12 straight shots..no shots removed.

M5 on course correlates.

SIM on course correlates except for 1 drive out of about every 12-15 that just sail right.

I play a fade and my transition has my hands working out/toward the ball a tiny bit rather than swallowing. The club is still shallowed but my hands work a bit over the top. When I get quick I can lose a ball right. With m5, that rushed transition miss was in the rough. With SIM, it's on the next hole, neighborhood, city...

[manima1]

Look at your launch angle difference of 2 degrees. That's Significant for a driver. Your M5 had either had greater static loft or you were delivering more dynamic loft (assuming strike patterns are equal). Spin is also up on the M5 supporting this notion.

 

Your are seeing more ballspeed mostly from less total loft at impact with the SIM. It's a loft story, SIM is not any hotter. Loft down on the M5 and really dial it in and there's no difference.

 

My experience with the M5 is that it plays higher loft than stated. Lofting it way down with the weights back is when it really came alive for me.

 

Also - gotta say your spin with the M5 is much better for the golf course. I see a lot of high teens with the SIM shots which can get you into trouble at your speed on the golf course. It's no wonder M5 was easier to hit for you, it's actually actually a better fit for you based on these numbers. Your spin numbers might look good on a launch monitor with SIM but you'll continue to struggle on the course with wild shots when your hitting the occasional ultra low spin ball.

 

Did you do any testing with the MAX by chance?

 

 

 

[jah7838]

Yeah, the numbers that I got on the SIM Max 9* were very similar to the regular SIM 10.5*. I was very surprised. I've always gravitated towards the M1/M3/M5 Lines because I've needed help keeping the spin down with my driver. I'm still on the fence about going from my M3 to the SIM or SIM Max. If I do get one, it's probably going to be the regular SIM because I want the ability to adjust the sliding weight if it's neede. I really like my M3, and prefer the look of it if I'm being honest with myself instead of trying to talk myself into something new and shiny.

[cwilk]

Full disclosure, I've played a 44.5" driver at D2 for several years now. So testing a 45.75" driver at D4 could have contributed to my issues with the face angle.

I got lower spin when the face was square, the lowest was 1800, but the average was 2200 or so on good strikes. The open faced blocks were more like 3k. The potential for low spin excited me most about the SIM, because typical for me is 2500+ on good strikes with most low spin model drivers.

And in reference to your earlier comment, I'm one of those who is a little flat and hits push draws. So that could be my problem as well.

[getitdaily]

I was fit into the m5 at 10.5 lofted down to 9.75. I tested m5 at 9 standard loft and saw spin less than what you see with sim. I was slower when I did that m5 testing tho. I was swinging 107 when I was fit into m5. I went on a strength gain routine and 2.5 months later I was 108 slow and 109/110 routinely. With that speed increase I believe I got some spin increase with m5.

I'm not worried about those 2 sub 2000 spin numbers. I'd be worried if I saw more than a few at or below 1700 for sure.

On the course and on the range I get an occasional swing where the face is open to path wayyyy too much with sim. I'm trying to find a setting that delivers the face more consistently just open to path. Combined with a setting to impart less right sidespin (draw weight setting) I should see more of what I found on the range sunday. Just gotta see it on course.

Yes, I did test sim but at 9 standard loft I saw spin over 2300 on every shot. I don't like being above 2500. Plus, I'm a firm believer in movable weight tech since these OEMs don't publish CoG data with their releases...

[SwooshLT]

 

I'm slower than you, don't hit the ball all that high relative.....but I'm in 9* loft(closure) but with a kuro kage shaft that is anti-right(lefty here) and easy to hit low or high fades that go......you mentioned CofG .....I'm a believer in the inverted T track working better for the masses than front track which I've found LONG but clumsy.....SLDR, M1 and now SIM.....maybe great for higher speed but M5 just might the best driver I've hit in past 15yrs

[getitdaily]

I tend to agree on the back track vs front track. M5 was the first adjustable weight driver I played. I have tested the epic flash sz and that back track was similar in performance to m5.

I'll end up in a flash sz if I cannot get sim to work. Or I may get into a tour issue m5...

[SwooshLT]

Great choices to entertain! Good luck

[MCoz]

Interesting. I find it easier to draw than the M5 with the exact same shaft (Ventus Velocore Blue S6). But I went with the 10.5 head with the SIM and have dialed it open to 10* where as the M5 was a 9* was closed to 9.5* (1.5* Sleeve) But frankly I generally hit them both very accurately. The difference is that I hit a lot more low spin high trajectory bombs than I did with the M5.

[Drivingrangehero]

I can see the SIM going right for people who miss right. I play a slight draw with my driver and hit some dead straight, but when it comes time to fade the ball, I have a hard time with most drivers. Not the SIM, I could play a fade consistently and even would prefer to. I hit it in the 8.5 degree and loved it. Hard for me to justify buying one being that I just got the Ping G410 lst (I got for half price, because I cracked the face on my Ping G30 ls tec)

i have never liked Taylormade drivers (or anything for that matter) but it’s by far my favorite Driver to date. Ball speed was the same as my Ping, but I could shape it left to right easier. I also like that it comes in 8.5 and has lots of adjustability. I have my 9 degree Ping set to 8 degrees, but my launch angle is 15 degrees with it. It’s fine because my spin is around 1800 rpm, but can creep up to 2400 at times. I feel like I could drop the loft on the SIM a bit more, and drop the spin with it, and still get a 13.5+ launch angle. Best driver I’ve ever hit, and I was a Taylormade hater for the most part.

the only thing that bothered me with the SIM (mild inconvenience) is the whoosh type noise it makes when I swing it. I believe I can feel the V shape come through the ball, which was not a problem, just a different feeling than I’m accustomed to!

I would love to do a proper fitting club champion/TXG style on the SIM, I think it would be a best fit for me, and that’s just from trying out the only 8.5 X-Stiff shafted one Dicks Sporting goods had on the rack, on the GC2. Great numbers for me, but I can see how a left to right player wouldn’t like it.

[Krt22]

Have you tried the max?

[getitdaily]

Yeah. Spin was higher than I liked and I'm a big believer in movable weight tech.

Upright lie and draw weight position will either make sim a winner for me or will have me move on to ef sz or a your issue m5.

I will know after this weekend for sure. Hope the sim stays. 14/15 drives are absolute money....like I can't miss with it. Then out of nowhere is a foul ball that would clear the right net at top golf...but I've pretty much only tested and played a fade weight setting until sunday on the range.

[MysteryV]

I've been playing the Sim Max 9 w/ a Ventus Blue for a bit now, and have found it to be extremely draw / hook biased. I'm actually considering selling the head and either going to a 10.5 Max or potentially SIM it's been so bad.

Coming from a Ping G400 Max and Callaway Epic before that, I didn't realize that loft adjustments were inextricably linked to face angle with TM. I've gone down to 8.25 to get the 1.5 degree open face angle, and am hitting absolute bombs with the combo, however unfortunately it's usually on my second tee shot as the first has hooked OB. :(

[shaolingolfer]

My fitter said Ventus Blue is softer compared to Daimana and don't fit me. I insists on giving it a try (Love the color and sexy name), it's an awful shaft for my swing.

[Valtiel]

I'd say that is pretty sound reasoning! The M5 was quite fade biased, setting it in the draw position like Rory and Tiger did actually made it dead neutral, so it stands to reason that the new model would lean that way. It also fits with what you mentioned about DJ, who played his M5 set neutral (naturally fade biased) and now sets his hypothetically more neutral SIM in a fade setting.

[SwooshLT]

Funny in my limited exposure to the M5 , I'm finding it refreshingly neutral and tighter in its dispersion while being easier to shape if that makes sense.....similar to EFSZ but much better sound/feel

Maybe I found my #unicorn

[Valtiel]

Internal CG bias is only one factor when it comes to influencing ball flight as it only impacts horizontal gearing in relation to your strike point. For someone that tends to live toe side of center, a fade biased driver would feel more neutral to them, with the inverse obviously being true for draw biased drivers. It is those that live in the center of the face consistently that will really notice the difference between CG biases, and since that is not most of us we have to take into account the dozen other factors that influence driver flight.