Foley says hit down on driver

[tlasher]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/sean-foley-down-driver/amp

 

I believe the average AOA is negative for almost everyone but LPGA players, but still unusual to see this advice.

[Golfbeat]

Negative for tour players with a 110/120 club speed. Hitting up with slower speeds for amateurs makes a lot of sense. Just need to find a way to square up that club face. The throw the club out thread is a good start to hit up to hit it farther.

[MonteScheinblum]

Hitting up has proven to make it more difficult to align face, path, target and sweet spot.

Often, people slow down to square the face to the path/target, etc., negating the minimal advantage to hitting up.

Somewhere close to level (a hair up or down) is going to provide the best case scenario for most golfers.

The “Tour pros can afford to hit down 1 because they can afford to,” mantra fails the smell test. They are out there 60 hours a week finding the best way to do it.

[MK7Golf21]

Tiger tee's his driver up pretty low usually, lower than I would like, and I'm sure he hits down a bit but hes not really a good driver of the ball. Some pro's find this easier to control, however, some of the best drivers on tour tee it up higher and hit up like Rory.

[chrisf60526]

I remember reading Bobby Clampett's book and he advocated this. Always thought it was counter intuitive to conventional wisdom

[scooterhd2]

In terms of accuracy, I am really dialed in the driver right now. Best part of my game, as I am nearly automatic hitting straight shots or slight fades that start down the left center. My AOA is near 0 on trackman. But I will say that my spin is a little high, my ball flight is a little lower than I would like it to be, and I am leaving a few yards out there. Every now and then, for some reason I get too confident and decide that I need to hit the drive of my life. Maybe the tee box is elevated. Maybe there is some wind at my back. Time to let it rip, and I tee up a little higher, and my only thought really is to make the same swing but hit this up in the air more. Get some more height. Hit it higher on the face for less spin and its going to carry 10 yards more easy. My setup feels the same, except for a little more shoulder tilt to promote the more upward delivery. And then, I proceed to either leave the face wide open and banana slice it into the desert, or catch it on the toe and hit a high draw, that usually doesnt end up in the best spot when you are aiming left center fairway. And neither shot goes any further than my normal drive.

[Krt22]

Pros in general all tee it pretty low compared to ams, from what I've seen at least. Rory is an outlier IMHO

[cardoustie]

super high tees can lead to some funky mechanics and releases if you don't know what you're doing

[juststeve]

I was taught to hit the ball neither up nor down but rather forward. In other words a level angle of approach.

Steve

[trilerian]

Hitting up on the ball allows me to come from the inside easier. Of course it presents problems of its own, namely harder to square the face and if the low point gets too far back, you can top the ball off the tee. But if I go to the range and work only on my driver, I can groove a swing that hits up on the ball with a draw, it just never translates to the course. If I tee the ball lower and try to hit down, or level, I always come over the top. I'm sure there is a swing fault there somewhere, lol.

[Krt22]

If that is the case you are probably using excessive axis tilt in order to hit up on it.

[trilerian]

Yep, but it is the only way I can hit the driver. More axis tilt get my body further away from the ball and allow more rotation to help square the face. I have issues releasing the driver, unless I straight cast the club in the wrong way. Even in slow motion I can't get it right, with the driver the club head stays too far behind my hands. I've had issues with release ever since I learned that I was casting. The motorcycle move works great with my irons, but with the driver it points the face at the ground.

[MonteScheinblum]

There is likely an issue you’re unaware is a problem.

[Hawkeye77]

Yep, lol. I'm lucky when I was little there was no such thing as tee ball - at least missing a pitched ball was less humiliating than I imagine missing that teed up ball.

Okay golf, back in pre-Monte days with my instructor (who was good) he and I would always have back and forth if I was working on driver because he'd grab a ball and tee it up and it looked so low to me - teeing too high is something I have to watch quite a bit. I thought if I teed it up higher I'd level out more and be less steep, but it just made me tilt my right shoulder more and look out way right!

[bdcava]

Snead said he liked to hit down a bit on the driver.

[Golfbeat]

What about a negative AOA and de-lofting through shaft lean? Is that bad?

[Golfbeat]

Monte, what about those LPGA ladies?

[Dumpedunder]

That’s interesting, given his knowledge of TrackMan. Spin loft is a thing.

 

[nova6868]

I have done my best driving when right in the range of 0 to -1. Sure you can get more yards by getting positive but for me I start getting some wild ones.

Regarding tee height, the typical amateur approach of teeing the ball clear above your driver and then setting up with your driver on the ground always seems like a recipe for disaster. You're going to have to come back through a good inch or more higher than your setup. Good luck being consistent with that, especially when you need to make this swing for ONLY your driver. I think this is why you see most pros either teeing the ball lower or just hovering their driver.

[Z1ggy16]

I've improved my driving at the sake of all out total 1/10 bomb distance by going from like 4-5* up to 0-2* up most of the time. More fairways, less draw/hook bias and a more neutral flight. I've always been a 9* driver guy and I may honestly move up to 10.5* in the near future to help compensate for less upward attack.

[MonteScheinblum]

Are you prepared to practice 40-60 hours a week to make it work?

[tlasher]

It is cool how they take relatively “slow” swing speeds and translate to impressive yardages. Everything is optimized and they are machines.

[MaineMariner]

Every year I go through the same routine with my driver.

I start off with a relaxed swing with the ball teed relatively low and played off my front heel (ish). The ball flight seems to leave something to be desired (too low, which is a problem with wet frass), so I increase the loft. Now I start hitting nice, relatively consistent drives, and I believe that my AoA is probably close to level or, more realistically, a degree or two downward.

This makes me feel like I'm leaving distance on the table, so I start to tee the ball up higher. But when I tee the ball up higher, my swing goes haywire (massive skyballs, hideous snap hooks, etc), and the only way to hit the center of the clubface is to move the ball up in my stance to the middle of my lead foot or even lined up on the outside of my lead foot.

When I do this, I sometimes hit some absolute bombs. But then, inevitably, I have some TREMENDOUSLY bad driving rounds. Like, please make this stop bad. Usually my miss is a massive straight pull or slice off the planet. This two-way miss becomes unplayable and I shelve my driver for my three-wood, which I hit just fine.

Then I go back to playing my driver low and "back" in my stance (ie, not really "back" but more back than with the ball teed up).

[mgoblue83]

Terrible isn't it? My "natural" swing that I hate is 5 degrees up coming from the inside and it's unplayable on days I can't control the club face (quite often this year). What drives me nuts is that it makes complete sense to level out the driver AoA to gain consistency but I have such a difficult time doing it. Even more maddening given that I hit 5 down on my irons without a problem..

[Krt22]

You don't like when you leave it open an block it a mile right and then on the next hole smoother hook it only 200yards?

[avant_garde]

I teach a bunch of guys and girls to hit up. No probs aligning the sweet spot, zeroing out the path etc. Impact point relative to CG especially Important with a metal.

Just sayin...

[Dumpedunder]

Yeah, if reducing spin needs 14-17 dynamic loft, and you hit DOWN, aren’t you just ramping the spin loft even higher?

[COACH9]

I don't have much trouble hitting up on it. My swing thought is my shoulders leading my right hand pinky into the ball.

Hands seems pretty stable through impact. Usually hits a high draw.

[ALIF]

Nice.

[gmarchese]

Monte is spot on here. There are times when a positive AOA can be useful (wide open par 5 for example). I'm 114 driver speed and have a hard time with direction swinging up, and I don't have 40 hours a week to perfect it. -1 AOA is a fairway finder for me and I only lose 10-15 yards. I've shot my very best rounds with a squeeze cut driver. I've hit my longest drives the other way around, and while always fun, I've never played my best rounds that way.