Why are we so quick to penalize distance?

[smashdn]

Check the bottom too. I find that more interesting of a comparison across years.

[jholz]

I'm not sure where you are getting the "making golf balls fly shorter" statement from. I don't believe I ever said any such thing.

[jholz]

Ultimately there is never just one thing at work. It is always a combination of things. Yes, soccer is very accessible for a variety of reasons. Golf is inaccessible for a variety of reasons. Why make it more inaccessible?

[ebrasmus21]

Is that not what your getting at? ‘Distance is making the game less accessible’ isn’t that how you put it?

[Sean2]

I just saw a video on Golf Digest with DeChambeau in his LAB (that’s what GD called it), clocking 144 mph CHS. I hope the R&A doesn’t see that, lol.

[jholz]

This is precisely what I was referring to when I began my post with the statement that "people tend to oversimplify these debates." I've never once mentioned anything about a ball or a club or any kind of equipment whatsoever.

 

Additionally, I never said anything about distance limiting accessibility presently, but rather presenting a theory of what could happen based upon the long-term cultural trajectories we have seen in other sports.

[ebrasmus21]

Fair enough. I still disagree with your cultural trajectory theory at least in the way you put it. I think kids play fewer sports now because of how children are raised these days.

At the end of the day I can agree with you that it’s likely pretty complicated to come up with a solution.

[jholz]

Right on. I understand and appreciate your willingness to debate the issue. The topic of culture is always a slippery one.

[chigolfer1]

 

I don't believe the OP is referring to general length increasing, he's wondering why when one guy seems to gain a big advantage from length, obviously talking about BD here, our first instinct is to "punish" him or rein him in. I agree, this does seem to be the case and it is curious.

I believe it's partly because there's this misconception that hitting it long isn't as "valid", for lack of a better word, skill than say putting.

Now, as to the entire field getting longer and longer and how this impacts what we're going to do with golf courses, I see that as a bit of a different issue.

[chigolfer1]

wow, amazing! So, in other words, we've been having this same debate in golf for over 100 years??

[bscinstnct]

 

do you have some stats or a link for that?

I would assume that the bottom of the distance list has moved up a good deal in terms of yardage .Which considering that the leaders haven’t moved up tremendously, verifies how much athleticism plays a part in distance gains

[freowho]

It's not a question of par. The 13th at Augusta was specifically designed so players had to negotiate the corner of the hole with an advantage to those who could shape the ball right to left and then take the risk of going over the creek with an advantage to those who could shape the ball from left to right along a diagonal green. Faldo in 1996. Mickelson in 2010. It's been one the greatest tournament holes in the history of golf.

If the original hole is kept yet the ball is going further it becomes one of the most boring holes in golf. The landing area off the tee doubles and no shape is required and the creek in front of the green loses it's value because players can spin a short iron from the back of the green.

[tiderider]

maybe ... i don't know ... it just seems that the trend is to swing harder, by whatever means, and have shorter iron shots into greens ... granted, that's what nicklaus did ... probably jones ... etc ... but i think we're losing skill, overall ... the ability to place a ball ... the size of the driver, combined with the ball, and the skill of developing athletic ability to leverage, is making the game unbalanced, imo & many others ... players have zero fear of hitting out of the rough now ... none ... blast it & wedge it ... i think that's one reason the Open has increased in popularity the past 20 years ... the wind & turf conditions require skill & acceptance of luck ... you don't have to be a bomber ... at all ... if the wind's up, you don't have to be anything ... it's open to everyone ...

[munichop]

Freowho perfectly nutshells the issue with distance and golf architecture. While greens and hazards at greens are designed from the green back to the approach area the approach area is predicated on an assumed distance from the tee with the better approach requiring the more risky drive. But when you add 40 yards to the drive that has completely rendered the risk mute. BD said as much in Detroit.

[grm24]

Yes sir. It will still be an argument until the end of time.

[Mcgeeno]

some good stuff in here.

 

One thing though, could we not tighten the fairways and grow the second cut rough in order to combat distance and bring the field into a tighter range?

Maybe Im missing something?

This would penalize the really crooked guys and it would reward the short knockers who split the middle often.

[Golfjack]

Exactly. People are mad that golf is frequently not considered an elite sport. But when people start hammering the ball, then they get backlash. Oh he's not a purist etc etc. Get a grip people. I'm all for elite athletes getting it in the game. Only legitimizes the sport instead of being something only enjoyed by stuffy polo guys in country clubs. Or I should say guys who don't want to exert themselves as hard physically as say basketball or whatever LOL. I know that's why I play. Don't want to mess up my knee again.

[DLiver]

Again, so why are we choosing to penalize guys who hit it long, and not choosing to penalize guys who excel at other parts of the game. We are saying that hitting it far is an undesirable skill, but great putting is a desirable skill?

[smashdn]

I just go to pgatour.com and the stats tab. Pick your date in the drop down.

In 2000 Corey Pavin was the shortest guy on the list at 251.3.

In 2005 it was Corey Pavin again at 258.7.

In 2010 it was Brian Gay at 266.4.

In 2015 it was David Toms at 270.

In 2019 it was Scott Langley at 271.3.

 

In almost 20 years it has increased 20 yards.

 

Why do you think the last part of your statement? What makes you think that?

[oikos1]

Golf is inaccessible because golf requires time and money. Much of both to be any good compared to other sports. And let's face facts, at least half of everyone who plays is incapable of ever being any good because they lack the first two variables, let alone the desire, athleticism and sheer determination to be better. That is a daily journey, not a "play once a week" mentality.

That said, I have no idea how your comments have anything to do with being quick to "penalize distance".

[J13]

Maybe the issue is golf sets the expectation that all things should be equal in order to compete. Golf's welfare system (aka hcp) is a way for people to get free strokes off their score when playing a better competitor. Rather than practice more, work out harder, spend money on getting fit, they get free strokes given to them thus reinforcing bad player behavior (aka no work ethic or motivation to improve).

[jonsnow]

So is yachting. I think it's time to grow yachting.

[jholz]

The question is "why are we so quick to penalize distance?" Right?

 

Well, I would argue that my posts constitute a direct address to that question - providing a reason why people get bent out of shape over the distance issue. To go a bit further, my comments are also drawn from statements issued by R&A Chief Executive Martin Slumber (love that last name!) as detailed in a Golf Magazine article that has come up in other threads on this subject.

 

Just because you disagree with my statements doesn't mean that they are "off topic."

[chigolfer1]

Well let's make the rough thicker. Then you really will have a risk/reward for not hitting it straight but doesn't "punish" you for hitting it long. And that seems like a relatively easy fix?

[trilerian]

@DLiver
To the question in your OP. I think that reason that distance is seen as a pox, is because some believe it to be the "cheating" way. Distance is the easiest skill to gain in golf. Does it take work? Absolutely, but it can be obtained by body conditioning and swing mechanics. Imagine the practice it would take to become a "1 putt wonder", or be a guy who always sticks his approach shots to 10'. Like I said, it's the easy way out. The most reward for the least amount of work. So, there is my response to your OP. With that said...
I don't agree with it. I think any gain done within the rules is a legitimate gain and should not be frowned upon. Whether or not to change the rules, whether or not to change the equipment. There are plenty of threads about that.

[clevited]

Already tons of people that can hit it 350 plus. They don't because it is rarely advantagious. I have said this a million times in these threads. The driving distance for any pga pro tends to average out to a maximum of around 315 yards each and every year. With the course mix the tour plays, there is a limit to what distance benefits a person. Look at Cam Champ, and look at what Bryson will end up averaging by the end of the year. Unless he only plays wide open course, of which there are few on the tour, his average will likely fall somewhere very near that 315 yards number. Been this way for a very long time now.

[chigolfer1]

Eh, in that case you're only penalizing for not hitting it straight and making the penalty an actual penalty. That may be a whole other topic but are sand traps around greens even penalties? These days, everyone wants to get into the trap, not the rough around the green,

[chigolfer1]

Off topic but, wow, I didn't realize Langley was that short.

[chigolfer1]

Distance is the easiest skill to gain in golf? I'm guessing you may get a lot of disagreement on that one. Again, if it's so easy, then why are people up in arms about BD suddenly being so much longer than everyone else?

[trilerian]

I didn't say it was easy, I said it was the easiest skill to gain in golf. There is nothing easy about gaining distance unless it is through equipment changes. Bryson had to put in some major work to gain the distance he did. But he did it in little time. Do you think there is any other part of his game he could have improved upon so much in that amount of time?

Anybody can gain distance by putting in more time in the gym, or buy the super speed system and use it, or learn to hit the ball without flipping. Not everyone can become a great putter, or a great short game player, or stick their approach shots tight every time.