5 Hybrid vs. 5 Iron

[cardoustie]

Played a long wet track today and dragged out a 28* 6h Adams tour issue proto a12 that I’ve had for years

 

dropped a KK 90 shaft in it recently ... so

 

@Obeewill appreciate this, it was ridiculously solid, and I hit three greens today from 190 out !!!

 

ps won a KP with my 5h on a 207 yard par 3

 

i smell the 6i having a high likelihood of dropping next season 

 

The thing to remember is the current 6i has the loft of an older 4i ... and we play lower spinning balls

[jcvandamme]

Not to thread jack, but I have a question about shaft length. I just bought a 27 degree Titleist H1 hybrid from 2nd Swing in an attempt to replace my 5 iron. The club is currently playing 40" long, which makes me think someone just took the shaft from a 21 degree hybrid and stuck it in there. If I was to cut the shaft down to the stock length of 38.5" would I need to add weight to the head to make up for the lost length or not really because the club is designed to play at that 38.5" length? I haven't been able to swingweight it to check to see what it's currently playing at. It just got delivered and I won't get it out to the course until Sunday.

[JJgolfwrx]

@jcvandamme No worries. When you change length, you change the headweight feel. Whenever you cut down a shaft, the head feels lighter and you need to add headweight.  Good news is that you can experiment with double density lead-tape, then buy the weight you need through a third party vendor like billybobsgolf or ebay.  

 

After you cut the shaft: Cutting 1" is changes headfeel by 3 swingweights lighter. 2g is one swing weight heavier. So you need to add about 6 grams of headweight to get the swingweight back. Cutting 1 1/2" is 4.5 swingweights lighter or about 8g to 9gs you need to add back into the head to get the same feel. Start with adding 6g, then add 2g increments every 2-3 swings. Find the weight you like, then keep adding weight in two gram increments every 2-3 swings until it gets too heavy. Then go back to your desired weight. This is just double checking that the weight that tested the first time is still correct even after you are warmed up.

 

-JJ

[jcvandamme]

49 minutes ago, JJgolfwrx said:

@jcvandamme No worries. When you change length, you change the headweight feel. Whenever you cut down a shaft, the head feels lighter and you need to add headweight.  Good news is that you can experiment with double density lead-tape, then buy the weight you need through a third party vendor like billybobsgolf or ebay.  

 

After you cut the shaft: Cutting 1" is changes headfeel by 3 swingweights lighter. 2g is one swing weight heavier. So you need to add about 6 grams of headweight to get the swingweight back. Cutting 1 1/2" is 4.5 swingweights lighter or about 8g to 9gs you need to add back into the head to get the same feel. Start with adding 6g, then add 2g increments every 2-3 swings. Find the weight you like, then keep adding weight in two gram increments every 2-3 swings until it gets too heavy. Then go back to your desired weight. This is just double checking that the weight that tested the first time is still correct even after you are warmed up.

 

-JJ

Thanks JJ. I get what you're saying because I did the same thing with my driver since I play it at 44.5" and added a bunch of lead tape to account for the shortened shaft.

 

I guess what I'm asking is this: if a longer than standard shaft is currently in the club, wouldn't that make it a heavier than normal swingweight since it's currently playing longer than standard? If I cut it down to what the standard length is, shouldn't that bring the swingweight back to what it should be since the shaft length is now back to normal? I assume that Titleist would put a slightly heavier weight in the bottom of the club to account for the shorter length that the 27 degree would be played at. Or am I way off with that thinking?

 

FWIW the shaft is an Atmos Blue Tour Spec 85 gram.

[JJgolfwrx]

@jcvandamme yea the headweight of that hybrid would be back to normal if cut to its normal stock length

Edited October 23, 2020 by JJgolfwrx

[rwl]

Went out yesterday w/ a 24* Titleist hybrid set to 25. It was deadly on the range but flew really high on the course which killed me into the wind. Sorry gents, 5h is not for me.

[cardoustie]

What shaft I must ask

[Tommyj]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:38 PM, jcvandamme said:

Not to thread jack, but I have a question about shaft length. I just bought a 27 degree Titleist H1 hybrid from 2nd Swing in an attempt to replace my 5 iron. The club is currently playing 40" long, which makes me think someone just took the shaft from a 21 degree hybrid and stuck it in there. If I was to cut the shaft down to the stock length of 38.5" would I need to add weight to the head to make up for the lost length or not really because the club is designed to play at that 38.5" length? I haven't been able to swingweight it to check to see what it's currently playing at. It just got delivered and I won't get it out to the course until Sunday.

Depends which weight is currently in the head, if its an 818 you'll have the cartridge which will have the weight on it.  I think 816 still have the sole weight, red dot used to be the stock which would swing weight at around D1-D2 at the standard length of 38.5" for the 27*.  Weights available for the 818 were 10, 12, 14, 16, 18g with the 14 being stock.  For the 816 it was 6, 9, 11, 13, 16g, with the 11 being stock.  Your SW is probably close to E0 with a shaft that is 1.5" over standard.  Even if your club has the lightest weight, you should still be at a high C SW if you cut the shaft, easy enough to fix with a bit of lead tape.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Tommyj

[CDLgolf]

I replaced my 5 iron with a 5 hybrid a couple years ago. I can hit shots with the 5 hybrid that i couldn't dream of hitting with the iron. The hybrid is a much easier club for me to use from all lies.

 

[kiwihacker]

Rather than talking about replacing the '5 iron' it would make more sense to talk about the loft of the iron you are replacing. I still play a 27° 5 iron and love it. But it would be considered a 6 iron in most modern sets or even a 7 iron in some recent releases. Yesterday I played with an older set of RAC LT irons and hit several sweet, sweet shots with the 27° 5 iron. I still game a 24° 4 iron and I am definitely not as consistent with that club. I have tried replacing it with a 23° hybrid but whilst I love the hybrid it hits further and is just a very different club with different purpose for me. So I get replacing the 21°-24° clubs with hybrids but the 27° club (my 5 iron) is still the optimum long iron for me before I transition to a hybrid/utility iron type replacement. 

[Fairway14]

On 10/16/2020 at 8:53 PM, rwl said:

. Anyone have experience replacing their 5 iron & if so, w/ what? Thanks.

 

Tried it and did not like it. My distance control and accuracy was not as good with a 5 hybrid as it is with a 5-iron.

That said a regular playing partner of mine is a legitimate scratch handicap, sometimes he shoots in the 60's, and the longest iron he carries is an 8.

He's goy in his bag 7, 6, 5, 4 and 3 hybrids.

[rwl]

On 10/24/2020 at 7:23 AM, cardoustie said:

What shaft I must ask

Stock Titleist Diamana, R flex 72g. To be honest, hadn't thought about it but that sounds tailor made to fly too high. May have to go back to the drawing board.  Thanks. 

[cardoustie]

5 minutes ago, rwl said:

Stock Titleist Diamana, R flex 72g. To be honest, hadn't thought about it but that sounds tailor made to fly too high. May have to go back to the drawing board.  Thanks. 

Yup, there’s the issue ... 90 or 100x 

[cardoustie]

The old tour issue project x Hybrid shafts hc1 and hb6 97g are amazing ... just saw Camilo still uses them

[pinestreetgolf]

Also I would bet quite a bit with one tiny bit of technique advice (play the ball slightly forward and don't move the grip at all during the swing) most players on this board would do better on most wedge shots with a 5 hybrid.  I use it around the green all the time.  I even use it from sketchy lies pretty far out from the green.  Its an incredibly versatile club.

 

But if you don't like solid strikes that go dead straight, it may not be for you.

[miamistomp]

 I carry a 25 degree hybrid for when I need height but I would rather use my 4 or 5 irons I am much more accurate with them

   I have tried lots of hybrids with a variety of shafts and they can all end up way left unless my swing is really smooth on it

Edited October 31, 2020 by miamistomp

[kiwihacker]

5 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

Also I would bet quite a bit with one tiny bit of technique advice (play the ball slightly forward and don't move the grip at all during the swing) most players on this board would do better on most wedge shots with a 5 hybrid.  I use it around the green all the time.  I even use it from sketchy lies pretty far out from the green.  Its an incredibly versatile club.

 

But if you don't like solid strikes that go dead straight, it may not be for you.

Yeah because I never hit a hybrid fat, never thin it, never slice or hook it. I just put a perfect swing on it and achieve a perfect strike every time.  🙄

 

If hybrids are that good I assume you play Cleveland Hi Bores. Hybrids from 4 iron to Pitching Wedge and shoot par or better week in week out.

 

I thought about you on a par 3 at my local course. About 185 yards +/- 10 yards depending on tee and pin placement. So I usually hit a 4 or 5 iron. I have a 23° hybrid that is supposed to be a 4 iron replacement but I hit it much further than my 4 iron. It is great for layup shots on par 5s, recovery shots from poor drives and approach shots on long par 4s. But off the tee on par 3s it scares the bejesus out of me. I'll either nuke it over the back or hook it into no man's land. Anyway after reading your post last week I decided to try it on this par 3. The usual result. Pull hooked it left into deep rough. Try again, choke down half an inch, play a baby cut. The ball balloons high and right and comes up short. 🙈

 

I hit my regular 5 iron and although I pull it a little left I'm on the green, pin high. 

 

So the 4 and 5 iron are different to the 23° hybrid for me and all three have a place in my bag. We aren't all the same. 

[pinestreetgolf]

20 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

Yeah because I never hit a hybrid fat, never thin it, never slice or hook it. I just put a perfect swing on it and achieve a perfect strike every time.  🙄

 

If hybrids are that good I assume you play Cleveland Hi Bores. Hybrids from 4 iron to Pitching Wedge and shoot par or better week in week out.

 

I thought about you on a par 3 at my local course. About 185 yards +/- 10 yards depending on tee and pin placement. So I usually hit a 4 or 5 iron. I have a 23° hybrid that is supposed to be a 4 iron replacement but I hit it much further than my 4 iron. It is great for layup shots on par 5s, recovery shots from poor drives and approach shots on long par 4s. But off the tee on par 3s it scares the bejesus out of me. I'll either nuke it over the back or hook it into no man's land. Anyway after reading your post last week I decided to try it on this par 3. The usual result. Pull hooked it left into deep rough. Try again, choke down half an inch, play a baby cut. The ball balloons high and right and comes up short. 🙈

 

I hit my regular 5 iron and although I pull it a little left I'm on the green, pin high. 

 

So the 4 and 5 iron are different to the 23° hybrid for me and all three have a place in my bag. We aren't all the same. 

 

Going off the tee with a hybrid adds about 15 yards.  You can't just shove a bunch of hybrids in your bag and be like "See PineStreet you idiot!!!  Didn't work!!".  For the vast majority on this board hybrids (including me) a 5 hybrid will outperform a 5 iron long-term by quite a bit.  You may not be one of those people. 

 

Given that you used "baby cut" unironically in this post you are probably too good to bag the 5 hybrid.  Of course a baby cut would balloon right.  You should have hit a butter cut.

[GolfTurkey]

I think it's similar to putting or chipping from the fringe where a bad putt is usually as close as a good chip. I would guess that a mediocre to somewhat bad 5H will be as good as a good 5i for the majority of golfers, especially off the deck.

[Shilgy]

On 10/17/2020 at 6:23 AM, tim583 said:

I thought about this but am trying a driving iron first. I'm afraid of side spin with the hybrid and the thought of trying to hit precise distance control kind of scares me. It could all be in my head. I do feel like I would take a more reasonable swing with the driving iron versus woods and hybrids where you try to hit it hard as possible. Come to think of it, I think most of these factors are all in my head. 

Nah, they are all in your head!😏

 

With some of the early hybrids I felt the same way about hook tendencies.  No longer an issue and have played on in lieu of the 4 iron for years now.

[cardoustie]

Agree with above, early hybrids were hook machines, especially with the prominent miss off the toe

[thesamwise]

Guys, bumping this because I want to get this spot sorted in my bag this year. I hit the 6 pretty well, but the 5 has always been a question mark for me.

 

If I wanted to get a hybrid to cover my 5 iron distance (190 to 200), would it usually make sense to get a 6 hybrid? Would a 5 hybrid usually go about as far as a 4 iron?

 

 

[eth4and]

Forget about the iron / hybrid # (e.g. 5 vs. 6) and instead match the replacement hybrid you're contemplating to a specific loft. Loft for loft, hybrids and irons should fly the same distance, the hybrid will just fly higher & spin more vs. the corresponding iron it's replacing?

 

Do you know what the loft is of your 6i -> e.g. traditional 30/31* or more modern 26/27*? I'd recommend you check out the older Titleist 818h1 23* or 25* depending on the loft of your current 6i. The surefit sleeve enables independent loft/lie manipulation & the weight cartridge can further help mitigate a left/right miss (especially the dreaded hook that hybrids are notorious for) & match the swing weight to the rest of your irons.

 

If it were me; I'd also consider matching the shaft in this 5i replacement hybrid.

 

Good luck! 

[jomatty]

I had trouble with gapping using a four and five hybrid (19 degree hybrid is great for me).  My new five iron is an epic forged six iron.  I also got an epic forged 7-iron to test against my six iron. So far it seems promising but time will tell if it ends up working out. It definitely gets the ball high in the air and seems to gap well with my 19° hybrid and 20° Cleveland uhx utility (only one degree stronger but a solid 15ish yards shorter).  It will irritate me to have two clubs stamped with six iron in my bag and possibly two club stamped with 7-iron in my bag, but if it saves a stroke every so often then I will get over that.

Edited December 31, 2020 by jomatty

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, eth4and said:

Forget about the iron / hybrid # (e.g. 5 vs. 6) and instead match the replacement hybrid you're contemplating to a specific loft. Loft for loft, hybrids and irons should fly the same distance, the hybrid will just fly higher & spin more vs. the corresponding iron it's replacing?

 

Do you know what the loft is of your 6i -> e.g. traditional 30/31* or more modern 26/27*? I'd recommend you check out the older Titleist 818h1 23* or 25* depending on the loft of your current 6i. The surefit sleeve enables independent loft/lie manipulation & the weight cartridge can further help mitigate a left/right miss (especially the dreaded hook that hybrids are notorious for) & match the swing weight to the rest of your irons.

 

If it were me; I'd also consider matching the shaft in this 5i replacement hybrid.

 

Good luck! 

 

Totally disagree. Almost every major manufacturer's hybrid has a longer shaft than the corresponding iron. My Ping G410 5 hybrid (26 deg) has a stock length of 39.25. It replaced a stock 5i (26 deg) with a 38.00 inch length. The hybrid is a full club length longer. Now, if I choke down 3/4" to 1" on the hybrid, I get the same length. I had a 6h (30 deg) in the bag for a few years, and it was equivalent to a 5 iron. 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Argonne69

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, eth4and said:

Forget about the iron / hybrid # (e.g. 5 vs. 6) and instead match the replacement hybrid you're contemplating to a specific loft. Loft for loft, hybrids and irons should fly the same distance, the hybrid will just fly higher & spin more vs. the corresponding iron it's replacing?

 

Do you know what the loft is of your 6i -> e.g. traditional 30/31* or more modern 26/27*? I'd recommend you check out the older Titleist 818h1 23* or 25* depending on the loft of your current 6i. The surefit sleeve enables independent loft/lie manipulation & the weight cartridge can further help mitigate a left/right miss (especially the dreaded hook that hybrids are notorious for) & match the swing weight to the rest of your irons.

 

If it were me; I'd also consider matching the shaft in this 5i replacement hybrid.

 

Good luck! 

Loft for loft my 4h and 5h do not fly the same distance as my 4i and 5i.  Different shafts and the alleged "fly higher/spin more" isn't any kind of equalizer, opposite for me.  My 5h is one degree weaker than my 5i and I can hit it farther and more consistently.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[eth4and]

7 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Loft for loft my 4h and 5h do not fly the same distance as my 4i and 5i.  Different shafts and the alleged "fly higher/spin more" isn't any kind of equalizer, opposite for me.  My 5h is one degree weaker than my 5i and I can hit it farther and more consistently.

Consistency is key! If you're more confident standing over your 5h vs. your 5i I'd absolutely game the hybrid (if I were you). Only factor to be cognoscente of is gapping. Given that we're talking about your 5i/h, I assume maximizing distance is not, nor should it be, your only objective. Whether you're playing a hybrid or an iron, you simply want the club to fly 10-15 yrds longer than your 6i and 10-15 yrds shorter than your 4h. If you can accomplish that via a hybrid, great! But gapping is key. 

 

I'd also just be cognoscente of swing weight. Not knowing what irons/shafts you play, I'm not a big fan of dropping from a 110-130g iron shaft to an 80g hybrid shaft. Just something to be mindful of. That said, performance is key. You do what works for you! Good luck! 

[eth4and]

8 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Totally disagree. Almost every major manufacturer's hybrid has a longer shaft than the corresponding iron. My Ping G410 5 hybrid (26 deg) has a stock length of 39.25. It replaced a stock 5i (26 deg) with a 38.00 inch length. The hybrid is a full club length longer. Now, if I choke down 3/4" to 1" on the hybrid, I get the same length. I had a 6h (30 deg) in the bag for a few years, and it was equivalent to a 5 iron. 

 

Shaft length is obviously a huge contributor in terms of a club's max output potential. There's a reason OEMs have been sneakily increasingly their stock driver lengths for years AND why long drive guys aren't swinging the same +/- 45" drivers the PGA guys are.

 

Breaking it down further, in terms of the force equation whereby force (i.e. ball speed) = mass x acceleration; shaft length has the potential (based on strike location) to have an outsized effect on swing speed (i.e. acceleration) beyond the effect of a club's mass (normalizing for swing weight). Thus a hybrid played at a longer length has the potential to fly further than an iron, loft for loft. That said, gapping is key... especially in the context of a hybrid replacement for a 5i whereby maximizing distance is far from your top consideration given that there's likely a fairway wood or other hybrid sitting below it in the bag. 

 

Again, there's literally no point having 2 clubs in your bag go the fly/roll the sane distance. Another reason why I like hybrids with adjustable loft/lies whereby you can dial-in your gapping within the context of the rest of your bag. Irons are similarly easy to adjust; assuming you have access to a loft/lie machine. 

[Hawkeye77]

6 hours ago, eth4and said:

Consistency is key! If you're more confident standing over your 5h vs. your 5i I'd absolutely game the hybrid (if I were you). Only factor to be cognoscente of is gapping. Given that we're talking about your 5i/h, I assume maximizing distance is not, nor should it be, your only objective. Whether you're playing a hybrid or an iron, you simply want the club to fly 10-15 yrds longer than your 6i and 10-15 yrds shorter than your 4h. If you can accomplish that via a hybrid, great! But gapping is key. 

 

I'd also just be cognoscente of swing weight. Not knowing what irons/shafts you play, I'm not a big fan of dropping from a 110-130g iron shaft to an 80g hybrid shaft. Just something to be mindful of. That said, performance is key. You do what works for you! Good luck! 

If you mean shaft weight vs. swing weight my iron shafts are around 95 and the hybrids are probably 20-30 grams less - not really an issue, they are different clubs. I got the hybrid fitted to get what I want out of it and specifically went lighter in shaft to do that. There’s definitely more of a gap from 5h to 6i, but the hybrid covers more yardage comfortably and I get what I “should” get but can’t from 5i. Well aware of what the gaps are in the bag, but being more realistic about how to cover them. 

[Argonne69]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

If you mean shaft weight vs. swing weight my iron shafts are around 95 and the hybrids are probably 20-30 grams less - not really an issue, they are different clubs. I got the hybrid fitted to get what I want out of it and specifically went lighter in shaft to do that. There’s definitely more of a gap from 5h to 6i, but the hybrid covers more yardage comfortably and I get what I “should” get but can’t from 5i. Well aware of what the gaps are in the bag, but being more realistic about how to cover them. 

 

I find that choking down is the simplest solution to any gapping issues. My highest lofted hybrid basically covers for two irons.